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[Dabanton]

is there a paper that isn't totally in the bag for the Tories? It looks like everyone has decided the result.

you wonder how anyone can vote for this and then you realise there's almost no dissenting voice.

As I said in the other post when most of the big UK newspapers are owned by four obscenely rich men. As their playthings to set policy and talking points don't expect much dissenting voices.

No one should be surprised that the Mail, the Telegraph and The Sun and no doubt the Times and Evening Standard (which is the most dangerous newspaper out of all of them) will come out for the Tories. They'll sell the line that Theresa May is a strong leader as she'll deliver what they've been dreaming about for years.

What should disturb everyone is the ease at which these papers pour poison into the ears of people. Divide and conquer, seems to work so very easily on most of us. No one thinks they'll get sucked into it then they find themselves tut tutting at someone on benefits...

Then they've got you.

 

[harriet the spy]

Oh, yeah. Thing is, their current majority isn't actually too big - enough that a few dozen defectors is all it takes to potentially block May's efforts to pass legislation, and while much of the Tories will put party before country, there are some with enough spine (or are far enough on the fringes) to break rank - or otherwise threaten it. May wants to shore this up, especially as current polls shows Labour - the nominal opposition - lagging severely behind, so it seems like an easy win.

Things were a bit different, but Chirac 'dissolved his parliament' (called for a general parliementary elections) with a parliament that was from his political side. Everyone was a bit flabbergasted (on both sides), but it turns out it backfired horribly, as socialists ended up taking power and so he had to deal with a socialist prime minister.

Anyway, not really expecting the same will happen here, but one can hope.

 

[cartesian]

I don't really understand UK politics. Is this all about getting a bigger majority? I mean, arent they already running the government? Is it not a bit risky?

Yes, May is already Prime Minister, her Conservative Party is in power, and calling a General Election can indeed be a risky bet.

But May inherited a very slim parliamentary majority from Cameron, which means her legislative programme is always vulnerable to being disrupted by even small-scale rebellions and parliamentary scheming. May is also somewhat bound to Cameron's 2015 election manifesto, which limits her ability to develop her own policy vision. Combined, these factors are restricting her room for manoeuvre.

Winning a new General Election would give her a powerful mandate to do what she wants and very probably the strength to do it.

From her perspective, this moment is as good as it gets. The Labour Party is in an existential crisis, and the Conservative Party is running a huge lead in the opinion polls; Theresa May also has very high poll ratings - and remarkably, even among Labour voters. Even if the Labour Party continues to decline, her ratings - and her party's ratings - can't go much higher and almost certainly will begin to fall; at the moment, May is the figurehead of 'ideal Brexit' - but once the negotiations with the EU begin to sour, and especially as she is forced to make compromises, her approval ratings must inevitably decline.

If she waited much longer, the window of opportunity might have passed.

 

[Moze]

Fair enough.

I am ever so slightly less negative about Murdoch now.

I think that comment is giving The Sun too much of a pass. It is equally as bad as The Mail. Possibly even worse due to its influence.

 

[D4Danger]

As I said in the other post when most of the big UK newspapers are owned by four obscenely rich men. As their playthings to set policy and talking points don't expect much dissenting voices.

No one should be surprised that the Mail, the Telegraph and The Sun and no doubt the Times and Evening Standard (which is the most dangerous newspaper out of all of them) will come out for the Tories. They'll sell the line that Theresa May is a strong leader as she'll deliver what they've been dreaming about for years.

What should disturb everyone is the ease at which these papers pour poison into the ears of people. Divide and conquer, seems to work so very easily on most of us. No one thinks they'll get sucked into it then they find themselves tut tutting at someone on benefits...

Then they've got you.

It's definitely no coincidence that May doesn't want to do TV debates with this backing. The media will do the work for her, the BBC won't dare challenge it and she can just sit at home and wait. The narrative of "stability" is set.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Fair enough.

I am ever so slightly less negative about Murdoch now.

Don't worry, Murdoch is still a grade-A cunt who has no business directing the political landscape of the UK! Be as contemptuous as you like

 

[FlammableD]

This is what we call a rag-sheet, brother.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

He was asked if he thought that homosexual sex is a sin. Please explain what you think is difficult about answering that?

If he wasn't a devout Christian it wouldn't be. But he is, so he doesn't want to talk theology. Not ideal, as folks have quite rightly pointed out in this thread, but he's quite clear on his political position. Dude thinks politics and religion belong in very different places. And yeah, he could have given a better answer.

If you want to get annoyed at Farron, that is a bit different than deliberately voting against your interest. You get more support for LGBT people with Lib Dems in office, as you'll likely see in the manifesto.

This will probably sting us though - a lot of muck will be flying around to depress any vote for progressives.

 

[PJV3]

I don't know if I want May to barely improve her position and be humiliated, but have Corbyn cling on. Or a labour wipe out and the Tories owning brexit and the country for a while but Labour finally being able to rebuild.

It really is a shit sandwich.

 

[travisbickle]

well this is terrifying

If Adolf Hitler flew in today ...

 

[Charles Brandon]

I think that comment is giving The Sun too much of a pass. It is equally as bad as The Mail. Possibly even worse due to its influence.

The Sun is awful and it has had some appalling headlines but, for my money, it's not as vicious or as nakedly fascist as the Mail. For example, I don't suppose Murdoch or the senior Sun staff are actual, full blown racists, although they may occasionally run articles that have racist overtones. Rothermere and Dacre probably are though.

 

[EmiPrime]

If he wasn't a devout Christian it wouldn't be. But he is, so he doesn't want to talk theology. Not ideal, as folks have quite rightly pointed out in this thread, but he's quite clear on his political position. Dude thinks politics and religion belong in very different places. And yeah, he could have given a better answer.

This will probably sting us though - a lot of muck will be flying around to depress any vote for progressives.

I will vote Lib Dem but I really don't like Tim Farron. I wish Nick Clegg was still at the reins.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

I will vote Lib Dem but I really don't like Tim Farron. I wish Nick Clegg was still at the reins.

You're in a minority of people. I respect Clegg a lot though. I've actually met Farron a couple of times - he interviewed me for a job.

Again I expect to be insufferable on here for the campaign - I am Lib Dem through and through so I view everything from that perspective.

 

[PJV3]

I will vote Lib Dem but I really don't like Tim Farron. I wish Nick Clegg was still at the reins.

Forgetting policy, Captain Clegg could hit an iceberg in the Mediterranean, he just doesn't seem very good at politics.

 

[UtterlyPerplexed]

You'd still be comparing two similar species of utter pond life filth, but if I have to put The Sun and the Daily Mail next to each other (without instinctively throttling the closest fluffy animal I can find simply by sheer hatred of having to see those two rags), the Mail has been most consistent with its fascist fellatio. The Sun is still a load of fettering shit that I would be afraid to set fire to if only because breathing in the fumes can leave a deleterious effect on me, but Murdoch at best is an opportunist who pitches the tent based on who seems likely to win, or based on what's more commercially beneficial.

I'm still not forgetting that earlier headline where the Mail labelled some High Court judges as 'enemies of the people' just because they didn't have it in mind to allow the government to run roughshod over parliamentary sovereignty as though this is Erdogan's wet dream or something. Authoritarian cunts of the highest regard and a group of traitors. Just as they enthusiastically gave Oswald Mosley applause and support, they would happily cheer now at the sight of actual fascism marching on the streets of London, before rationalising that hey, at least that evil EU Commission isn't dumping a bukkake of diktats all over us now!

 

[Huw_Dawson]

The Sun is right-wing trash aimed at working class men, the Mail is right-wing trash aimed at middle class women.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Don't the Lib Dems want to disestablish the Church of England?

Seems like something that only a narrow group of voters would actively care about while viewing that positively, but a much larger number would view that negatively.

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Don't the Lib Dems want to disestablish the Church of England?

Seems like something that only a narrow group of voters would actively care about while viewing that positively, but a much larger number would view that negatively.

Not official party policy, I think that is Farron's personal view.

We do want to get rid of bishops in the HOL though (and the entire HOL, for that matter).

EDIT: Gonna type out my thoughts on the whole religion-versus-LGBT problem and how Lib Dems solve it at some point, but it goes back to stuff like the Harm Principle and the fact that you can't say that everyone is equal, all groups are equal, but you can't be religious. That doesn't feel right.

As long as you know that your personal thoughts on homosexuality (or cannabis, or anything) should not affect the state's tolerance of things that are harmless, you are in the tradition of English Liberalism.

But yeah, Farron is religious. It's the one awkward thing about him that comes up. Other than him occasionally chewing up sentences on TV, or repeating his preferred quotes quite a lot.

It'd be unfair to go after a Muslim leader of the Lib Dems with a question like that which was asked, though. We should be tolerant.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Murdoch doesn't own the Mail?

Huh, i didn't know that. I thought it matched quite well with him. To be fair I kinda assumed he owned all the absymal media we have.

Contrary to popular believe, also, whilst the Sun supported leave, the Times supported remain. The Murdoch boogey-man is a perfect example of a legend that's gone way beyond the actuality of the situation.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Not official party policy, I think that is Farron's personal view.

We do want to get rid of bishops in the HOL though (and the entire HOL, for that matter).

The House of Lords can be overruled after a period of time and doesn't block manifesto commitments. Seems like such a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. As for the Lords Spiritual, same thing.

Hopefully he doesn't focus on all that because it's such a minor issue (if it's an issue at all, which is debatable).

 

[suedester]

Contrary to popular believe, also, whilst the Sun supported leave, the Times supported remain. The Murdoch boogey-man is a perfect example of a legend that's gone way beyond the actuality of the situation.

The same can be said for the Daily Mail and Metro. Both owned by Jonathan​ Harmsworth but one supported leave and the other remain. Incidentally, they are completely editorially independent from the owner who doesn't interfere in anything.

 

[vonStirlitz]

If Adolf Hitler flew in today ...

Straight out of an Alan Moore graphic novel.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The same can be said for the Daily Mail and Metro. Both owned by Jonathan​ Harmsworth but one supported leave and the other remain. Incidentally, they are completely editorially independent from the owner who doesn't interfere in anything.

Editorial independence wasn't the point I was making though.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Editorial independence wasn't the point I was making though.

I don't know what your political stance is. You seem quite...neutral/Tory-ish. What are your thoughts on this new election and who will you vote for. My choice is pretty easy because he voted against Art.50, anti-Corbyn and seems like a nice guy except for his mass surveillance stance. Always very responsive to my emails. Was pleasantly surprised when I wrote to him last time and he indeed did intend to vote against Article 50. A man of his word here. Labour, if you must know.

If anything it's possibly a blessing in disguise for the centre that this election is being held now. That means Tory rule might be limited to 2022 if the opposition gets its act together and dumps Corbyn. We were looking at 10+ years of Tory if Corbyn clung on for a few more years.

 

[DECK'ARD]

It'd be unfair to go after a Muslim leader of the Lib Dems with a question like that which was asked, though. We should be tolerant.

That's a good point. But I guess Christianity has been so neutered in the country that this sort of view is just seen as not something that should still be a thing anymore.

I didn't know this about him actually, I hadn't been following the Lib Dems that closely, but it's hard not to see this as a mark against him even if he's seperated it from policy.

I just don't want religion in my politics in any way. I mean the last time we had someone devoutly religious in power he developed a Messiah Complex and took us to war.

 

[CyclopsRock]

I don't know what your political stance is. You seem quite...neutral/Tory-ish. What are your thoughts on this new election and who will you vote for. My choice is pretty easy because he voted against Art.50, anti-Corbyn and seems like a nice guy except for his mass surveillance stance. Always very responsive to my emails. Was pleasantly surprised when I wrote to him last time and he indeed did intend to vote against Article 50. A man of his word here. Labour, if you must know.

If anything it's possibly a blessing in disguise for the centre that this election is being held now. That means Tory rule might be limited to 2022 if the opposition gets its act together and dumps Corbyn. We were looking at 10+ years of Tory if Corbyn clung on for a few more years.

I've actually only ever voted Tory once, and that was Boris in 2012 for London Mayor.. But generally, yeah, I lean right and the Tories are my natural home. I was a huge fan of the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and I like what Cameron did to the Conservatives. Furthermore, I voted remain.

I'll be voting Conservative. There's plenty about them I don't like, I don't like their slide back to small-c conservatism, I don't like that David Davis and his friends have their hand one back-stab from the reigns of power. That said, I broadly don't see any way for us to do anything other than hard Brexit after the referendum result so I don't find the idea of a Lib Dem pro-EU stance appealing. I also consider many of Labour's desired policies anathema to my views and the leadership is an absolute shambles. As such, I find myself reluctantly voting Tory because I'd rather they were in charge, and May were PM, than any of the alternatives.

As for my thoughts on the actual election itself, well, that's politics. There seem to be a lot of people falling over themselves to call it naked politicking or whatever, but it's pretty hard to spin the idea of giving the people a chance to kick out the government and replace it with one that they like as being a bad thing. You can argue that we shouldn't have referendums on important issues that most people don't have the time or inclination to understand, but that's not something we can claim about elections. The timing is obviously chosen for political reasons, but that doesn't negate the fact that the result on June 9th will reflect the will of the people. So sure, why not.

 

[Stinkles]

Man I remember when labor was in tatters because Neil Kinnock was badly dressed or the miners had blocked the high street. I bet they dream about those days now.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Man I remember when labor was in tatters because Neil Kinnock was badly dressed or the miners had blocked the high street. I bet they dream about those days now.

Corbyn would kill for a photo-op of him falling over on a beach, it can't possibly make him any less popular.

Edit: Just found this, how glorious:

Neil Kinnock, falling endlessly into the sea

 

[Roberto Larcos]

I've actually only ever voted Tory once, and that was Boris in 2012 for London Mayor.. But generally, yeah, I lean right and the Tories are my natural home. I was a huge fan of the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and I like what Cameron did to the Conservatives. Furthermore, I voted remain.

I'll be voting Conservative. There's plenty about them I don't like, I don't like their slide back to small-c conservatism, I don't like that David Davis and his friends have their hand one back-stab from the reigns of power. That said, I broadly don't see any way for us to do anything other than hard Brexit after the referendum result so I don't find the idea of a Lib Dem pro-EU stance appealing. I also consider many of Labour's desired policies anathema to my views and the leadership is an absolute shambles. As such, I find myself reluctantly voting Tory because I'd rather they were in charge, and May were PM, than any of the alternatives.

As for my thoughts on the actual election itself, well, that's politics. There seem to be a lot of people falling over themselves to call it naked politicking or whatever, but it's pretty hard to spin the idea of giving the people a chance to kick out the government and replace it with one that they like as being a bad thing. You can argue that we shouldn't have referendums on important issues that most people don't have the time or inclination to understand, but that's not something we can claim about elections. The timing is obviously chosen for political reasons, but that doesn't negate the fact that the result on June 9th will reflect the will of the people. So sure, why not.

Again, Lib Dem voter here, so biased - but...

If you liked the coalition, and you don't like the direction the Conservative government is going in - would it not be better to give them the message that they need to move more to the centre to get you back on-side? Just as they lurched to the right to get their Eurosceptic UKIP members back, losing votes to the Lib Dems may make them reconsider some of the more 'controversial' policies.

Essentially a protest vote.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Well after doing some more reading I'm off the Lib Dem boat, there's no way I'm voting for an evangelical Christian or endorsing his views even indirectly.

And as for this:

Maybe God’s plan is for me to lose a bunch of elections and be humbled

He's insane.

 

[Pyroclastic]

the 'better the devil you know' stuff with the tories drives me mad. so bored of them being the government of default. you could count the amount of actually 'good' leaders they've had in the last century on one deformed hand yet the vast majority of them get lionised.the fuck can you actually do about it though, unless you're some newspaper magnate or cozy up to one? not vote in woeful opposition leaders I suppose.

 

[DECK'ARD]

My final conclusion is we're just utterly fucked.

 

[Pyroclastic]

tim farron's favourite album is since I left you by the avalanches which negates p much everything other than the gay stuff. get a 'straight' answer on that for fuck's sake.

 

[CalamityPixel]

My final conclusion is we're just utterly fucked.

I've ran the numbers and with how much the pound will drop we wont even be able to afford lube.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

I've actually only ever voted Tory once, and that was Boris in 2012 for London Mayor.. But generally, yeah, I lean right and the Tories are my natural home. I was a huge fan of the Tory/Lib Dem coalition and I like what Cameron did to the Conservatives. Furthermore, I voted remain.

I'll be voting Conservative. There's plenty about them I don't like, I don't like their slide back to small-c conservatism, I don't like that David Davis and his friends have their hand one back-stab from the reigns of power. That said, I broadly don't see any way for us to do anything other than hard Brexit after the referendum result so I don't find the idea of a Lib Dem pro-EU stance appealing. I also consider many of Labour's desired policies anathema to my views and the leadership is an absolute shambles. As such, I find myself reluctantly voting Tory because I'd rather they were in charge, and May were PM, than any of the alternatives.

As for my thoughts on the actual election itself, well, that's politics. There seem to be a lot of people falling over themselves to call it naked politicking or whatever, but it's pretty hard to spin the idea of giving the people a chance to kick out the government and replace it with one that they like as being a bad thing. You can argue that we shouldn't have referendums on important issues that most people don't have the time or inclination to understand, but that's not something we can claim about elections. The timing is obviously chosen for political reasons, but that doesn't negate the fact that the result on June 9th will reflect the will of the people. So sure, why not.

Don't see why you would vote Remain and vote in the party that promises a hard Brexit. That doesn't serve Remain interests (well, it doesn't serve mine considering I do want to live permanently in places like Amsterdam some day, don't know about yours). Of course an increased government majority might give more room for compromises but that hardcore traditional Conservative base will be energized and select candidates accordingly, so new elections don't necessarily mean moderate Conservative candidates ready and able to compromise. For me, I have to hope for a compromise when push comes to shove, or the EU does stuff to help my demographic like the Parliament wants, or I buckle down for a few hard years of building in demand skills, something I'm going to have to do anyway EU or no to be fair.

I'd be on the Right wing of the Labour party or social democrat Lib Dem territory in terms of stance. I'll reluctantly vote Labour considering who my candidate is. In the Dutch election if I could vote I would vote for D66.

 

[CalamityPixel]

Now that I think about it, even if Labour wins there's gonna be such a big fuck up with Brexit that people will blame everything on them and the Tories will win every future election because of it.

 

[FuturusX]

Well after doing some more reading I'm off the Lib Dem boat, there's no way I'm voting for an evangelical Christian or endorsing his views even indirectly.

And as for this:



He's insane.

Did he really say that?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Did he really say that?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...interview-gods-plan-for-me?CMP=share_btn_link

Looking at him I could see him as a counsellor at Jesus Camp actually.

 

[Isotropy]

It'd be unfair to go after a Muslim leader of the Lib Dems with a question like that which was asked, though. We should be tolerant.

Woah, wait, hold on.

What the fuck?

Unfair to question a Muslim leader about their views on homosexuality?

It's not unfair to question a Christian about homosexuality and it's not unfair to question a Muslim.

Cut that out, what the hell...

 

[Ac30]

well this is terrifying

Ah, so this is why Piers Morgan works there.

 

[DECK'ARD]

God’s plan could be that some pretty brutal things happen to you. But the one thing I fall back on is that God’s overall plan is good

Cheers Tim.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Cheers Tim.

Ass is evil, but feels good.
So if ass is good, then evil must be good too.
Evil is good because ass is good.

I'm just laughing here listening to the commoners on radio 4. " I don't want an independence referendum or any other kind of election! I'm just sick of it! We voted to leave! Just let it happen!"

Lmao. Since when do you have to vote. You can just not vote. Or is it that you don't really care about your brexit delusions.

Us filthy euros are in complete shock of what these people are like.

 

[Uzzy]

I want to read the manifestos. I pray the Conservative one will be more substantial than "we'll get the best deal ever"

Doubt it'll be more than a few pages long, featuring such wonderful policies as repealing the human rights act and leaving the ECHR. Lots of broad strokes, not many clear promises.

That Daily Mail headline just makes me think about how the Trump voters took the 'deplorables' comment in their stride and made it a point of pride. Sabotaging May's agenda sounds pretty good to me, honestly.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

I've woken up in the Twilight zone.

Gay Tories on breakfast TV declaring they're not sinners and the Her Majesty's Most Loyal Opposition angry they get the chance to fight an election against the forces of evil.

 

[Dad.]

As for my thoughts on the actual election itself, well, that's politics. There seem to be a lot of people falling over themselves to call it naked politicking or whatever, but it's pretty hard to spin the idea of giving the people a chance to kick out the government and replace it with one that they like as being a bad thing. You can argue that we shouldn't have referendums on important issues that most people don't have the time or inclination to understand, but that's not something we can claim about elections. The timing is obviously chosen for political reasons, but that doesn't negate the fact that the result on June 9th will reflect the will of the people. So sure, why not.

"that's politics" doesn't mean it is ethical. Sounds like you are biased.

 

[phisheep]

He was asked if he thought that homosexual sex is a sin. Please explain what you think is difficult about answering that?

Because it is a cheap gotcha question that any (honest, from an evangelical) answer to is liable to be wildly misinterpreted to mean lots of things that he didn't say or intend.

If he said that he thought homosexual sex was a sin he would be interpreted as meaning, among other things, that he thought it was sexual orientation was a choice, that it should be illegal, that he was homophobic, that homosexuals should submit to treatment, that they should abstain from sex, that he would personally shun them etc etc etc.

None of this necessarily follows from believing it to be a sin. His believing it to be a sin does not necessarily inform his political stance. Besides, there are specific injunctions in the Bible against judging the sins of others. And if he followed down this route, every interview thereafter would have a "sin" question in it - abortion? tax avoidance? gluttony? covetousness? .. it would be neverending.

It would also be utterly irrelevant. As Alastair Campbell once said of Tony Blair "We don't do God". This isn't America thank goodness.

Jazzy Geoff's post is on point here:

He reminds me of my cousins who are both devoutly Christian (one of them is a missionary in Africa). They are kind, gentle, decent people who I suspect have never acted prejudicially towards gay people. Yet if I told them I was gay (I'm not for the record) they would probably pray for me. They wouldn't scold me or shun me or anything like that but they would pray to god for my salvation.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The stance on homosexuality is the least of his problems. He's a born-again, evangelical Christian. He's batshit, and there's no Alistair Campbell to get him to keep his mouth shut.

Our choices are:

A) Evil
B) Incompetent
C) Insane

We might as well turn the lights out now.

 

[StayDead]

The stance on homosexuality is the least of his problems. He's a born-again, evangelical Christian. He's batshit, and there's no Alistair Campbell to get him to keep his mouth shut.

Our choices are:

A) Evil
B) Incompetent
C) Insane

We might as well turn the lights out now.

The thing is Tim Farron knows and understands politics and religion have no place together which makes him perfectly sane.

 

[DECK'ARD]

The thing is Tim Farron knows and understands politics and religion have no place together which makes him perfectly sane.

When he says it might be God's plan to lose elections to humble him? Very distinct.

He can fuck right off out of here, I don't want this man anywhere near power.

 

[Conan-san]

Rough Translation of yesterday's events: "WAAAH! Mommy! The other kids are mean to me 'cuz mah game sucks and mah face is stoopid."