Host Samurai
Member
Piccolo would beat Cabba,but Magetta is a tough fight. Probably the toughest opponent outside Hit on U6. I wouldn't write Botamo off so easily either with his strange ability.
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
- Status
Icyflamez96
Member
Was Picollo stronger than base Vegeta?
Fulminator
Member
I don't think piccolo could have beaten either of them
Vegeta had to go super Saiyan against both of them, and there's no way piccolo was even stronger than base Vegeta at that point
Piccolo didn't beat frost either, he was much weaker
He maybe could have beaten magetta by capitalizing on the fact that he can't fly, but I feel like magetta would have knocked him out before hand
Also no way to tell if piccolo could have destroyed the barrier like Vegeta did
E: piccolo was absolutely not stronger than base vegeta. If Goku could fight final form Frieza in rof in base form, we can assume Vegeta could have too, and there's no way piccolo could have
Sure, the U6 arc took place later, but Vegeta also spent time in RoST, while piccolo didn't , there's just no way
RareFantasy64
Member
I think replacing anyone from the team roster with goten and trunks would be one of the worst decisions. Goten and Trunks played a huge role in the Buu arc being weaker compared to the rest of the series. I love Goten. But seeing Roshi, Tien, Krillin, Buu, 17 and 18 in this team over them is far more interesting than more saiyans
Undead Fantasy
Member
He can't be. Vegeta even questioned why he entered the tournament with that low power level, meaning Piccolo > Cabba.
Fulminator
Member
I can't tell if you're trolling or not lol
Undead Fantasy
Member
Why would I troll? Watch the episode again.
After Vegeta finds out that Cabba can't transform he schools him about entering the tournament with that low of a level.
Then he finds out he can't transform. Where he lies and tries to get him angry... He lied just liked he lied about destroying Cabba's world. He had no reason to lie before that.
Icyflamez96
Member
What if Icarus replaced Goku
Mystic 2 when he dies?
in base form they are evenly matched but that doesn't really mean much. they probably can bench press more or less the same. big deal
vegeta ain't even trying to win
on the other hand, the SSJ multiplier is so big that, given that Piccolo surpassed the SSJ of Cell saga, I would not be surprised if he was stronger than base Vegeta
on top of that, Piccolo was barely under the Fourth Form Frost, whom Cabbe had not seen transforming as much and whom Cabbe regarded as superior, thus clearly Piccolo would outclass base Cabbe
bitch please, Gohan cannot get a transformation unless it is a character he barely has interacted with who is dying
vegeta ain't even trying to win
on the other hand, the SSJ multiplier is so big that, given that Piccolo surpassed the SSJ of Cell saga, I would not be surprised if he was stronger than base Vegeta
on top of that, Piccolo was barely under the Fourth Form Frost, whom Cabbe had not seen transforming as much and whom Cabbe regarded as superior, thus clearly Piccolo would outclass base Cabbe
bitch please, Gohan cannot get a transformation unless it is a character he barely has interacted with who is dying
Icyflamez96
Member
We're onto something here.
Goku's died numerous times and no power up.
aw shit son
The thought of Videl and Pan dying will put him over the top.
Then he finds out he can't transform. Where he lies and tries to get him angry... He lied just liked he lied about destroying Cabba's world. He had no reason to lie before that.
Yeah, base Cabba should be on par with base Vegeta. Vegeta had no incentive to lie to himself.
And Buu too.
Basically....
Videl and Pan will talk to Gohan when shit hits the fan through King Kai telepathy.
Videl will remind Gohan that to Pan, Gohan is the invincible hero.
Gohan will remember all his rage and all he is about to lose, but through it, he will laugh and say....
No more rage....no more...
Then he transforms.
He transforms his rage into a calm God ultimate white saiyan and rekt's everyone.
Videl and Pan will talk to Gohan when shit hits the fan through King Kai telepathy.
Videl will remind Gohan that to Pan, Gohan is the invincible hero.
Gohan will remember all his rage and all he is about to lose, but through it, he will laugh and say....
No more rage....no more...
Then he transforms.
He transforms his rage into a calm God ultimate white saiyan and rekt's everyone.
Fulminator
Member
OMG current piccolo night be stronger than base form Vegeta, but there is zero chance he was in the U6 arc
It's because hes a Saiyan, Vegeta is saying a saiyan who can't transform is a disgrace
Piccolo is not stronger than cabba
It's because hes a Saiyan, Vegeta is saying a saiyan who can't transform is a disgrace
Piccolo is not stronger than cabba
If you try to apply any logic to this, Piccolo would be stronger than Cabba. Since there is nothing logical about DB's power levels anymore....who knows who is stronger. It's however the writers are feeling any given arc.
Icyflamez96
Member
flaxknuckles
Member
I don't know why people spend so much time debating characters' strength when we knew since the Frieza saga that Toriyama don't give a fuck about anything making sense.
Undead Fantasy
Member
People need to get over this already.
Power levels are part of the series and they are not going anywhere.
roflwaffles
Member
With how random the power scaling is now, I don't bother going into power level debates.
I can't even tell if SSJ is a multiplier anymore.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Pan is going to end up saving Gohan.
But they kinda were. If your power lever was higher than another dude, then you had like a 99% chance of winning in combat. The numbers at the end of the day didn't really lie lol. Even abilities like Kaoi-Ken and SSJ just straight up multiplied power levels, giving Goku a higher number.
I almost wish they would have kept power levels, just so I could see how absurd the numbers became.
Icyflamez96
Member
Power levels still exist as they always have. We just don't have scouters anymore. Only time it didn't make sense was with Trunks that one time.
1,500 (Raditz) got beat by 416 (Goku) and 408 (Piccolo).
18,000 (Vegeta) managed to outlast 32,000 (Kaioken X4 Goku). Then 18,000 (Vegeta) was eventually worn down by the combined efforts of 8,000+ (Goku), 1,770 (Krillin), 981 (Gohan), and 970 (Yajirobe).
They were introduced for the sole purpose of being defied.
Characters still have chi and shit, sure. But I associate power levels with having actual numbers or values. Honestly, I miss the simplicity haha.
The Silver
Member
It wasn't about consistency, what made scouters bad was the fact that the z fighters were special and could raise and lower their power at will. The actual number on the screen is an accurate assessment of power but it ends up being a crutch and liability against people who can instantly power up mid punch and give you and the scouter no time to react. It's really about the correct way of fighting, rely on your instincts and keep your guard up no matter what, don't assume what you see in front of you is all there is.
For Future Trunks, nuking his timeline when he seemed to save it.
Resurrection 'F', Vegeta not killing Frieza and Goku doing it.
Battle of Gods, getting a brand new Super Saiyan for the first time in over decade and it didn't make Beerus go all out.
Maybe troll is not the correct term form all of these, except Resurrection 'F', but I hope you see where I'm going.
What was the power level of Gohan's headbutt that weakened Radtiz? What was the power level of Piccolo's Special Beam Canon(legitimately asking, I can't recall)? Bringing up Goku and Piccolo's base power is meaningless, when they possess abilities that punch above there own power level.
Vegeta is a tough motherfucker. He honestly can take a beating. I consider him to be more durable than the average fighter. Him tanking all the shit he did at 18,000 has always impressed me.
Vegeta wasn't at 18,000 at that point dude, we both know he wasn't at full power at that point. So a severely weakened Vegeta was beaten by the efforts of 3 dudes, and even then it was very close! Makes sense to me.
Only thing that gives me pause is Yajirobe cutting off his tail, but he was pretty stealthy, so I let it slide.
Undead Fantasy
Member
1,307 and 1,330.
Vegeta lasted that long against Goku because he was getting weaker by the second with Kaioken times 3. Creating that artificial moon also made him weaker.
Well, I did get burned once before.
Frost's shit face. Lol
Why you think Piccolo was stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks during the Champa Saga.
Then he finds out he can't transform. Where he lies and tries to get him angry... He lied just liked he lied about destroying Cabba's world. He had no reason to lie before that.
Please post this every time people call Cabba a wimp without Super Saiyan.
Lunchbillion
Member
Okay, I've just about had it with this ridiculous premise that power levels don't matter and therefore shouldn't be discussed or criticized.
Dragon Ball is literally a series about strong guys fighting each other. In fact, that might just be the only thing it's about. How is the strength of each particular strong guy relative to the others not relevant to the show? Watching two sports teams you're unfamiliar with can often be boring even if it's a good match. Context is important. Stakes are important. These things are crucial to watching a struggle between two opposing forces. If there's no logic to what's going on, there's no real struggle. There's no reason to be invested in what happens next if it's not a reasonable continuation of the thing you just watched.
Yes, Dragon Ball has had somewhat contrived jumps in power before - but at least the explanations are there and make sense in-universe. The internal logic of Dragon Ball isn't damaged and we don't have to fill in massive plot holes by ourselves. Enough with the revisionist history. Goku's gravity training, Vegeta's zenkai abuse, Piccolo's fusion and the Hyperbolic Time Chamber were all decent ways to justify the massive leaps and bounds in power. Did Z's power scaling retroactively diminish the significance of power milestones from previous arcs? There's absolutely a case to be made for that. But to say power scaling was always bullshit and always made zero sense is not accurate.
I'm not going to make any specific jabs at Super's power scaling. I'm just saying it's a perfectly valid topic in a conversation about Dragon Ball of all things.
Dragon Ball is literally a series about strong guys fighting each other. In fact, that might just be the only thing it's about. How is the strength of each particular strong guy relative to the others not relevant to the show? Watching two sports teams you're unfamiliar with can often be boring even if it's a good match. Context is important. Stakes are important. These things are crucial to watching a struggle between two opposing forces. If there's no logic to what's going on, there's no real struggle. There's no reason to be invested in what happens next if it's not a reasonable continuation of the thing you just watched.
Yes, Dragon Ball has had somewhat contrived jumps in power before - but at least the explanations are there and make sense in-universe. The internal logic of Dragon Ball isn't damaged and we don't have to fill in massive plot holes by ourselves. Enough with the revisionist history. Goku's gravity training, Vegeta's zenkai abuse, Piccolo's fusion and the Hyperbolic Time Chamber were all decent ways to justify the massive leaps and bounds in power. Did Z's power scaling retroactively diminish the significance of power milestones from previous arcs? There's absolutely a case to be made for that. But to say power scaling was always bullshit and always made zero sense is not accurate.
I'm not going to make any specific jabs at Super's power scaling. I'm just saying it's a perfectly valid topic in a conversation about Dragon Ball of all things.
Undead Fantasy
Member
So we're talking power levels again?
Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Mister Wolf
Member
I would fucking love it if Whis would just rank them from 1-10 when they all get together. He would be the best judge.
So we're talking power levels again?
Power scaling is the correct word here. Power level is just random numbers Toriyama created.
If Roshi was stronger than Tien/ Krillin, or 18 was stronger than Piccolo, people would be furious.
Edit: My hate for power scaling talk is because I'm on mobile.
The Silver
Member
Raditz got beaten because Gohan powered up to near his level and weakened him with an attack from behind and Piccolo's SBC raised his power level to 1330, also those kind of piercing/cutting moves have always been especially effective.
Vegeta got fucking smashed by KKx3 Goku and then lost the beam struggle, his power was diminishing a lot with every big attack he took, including using the artifical moon. Goku during KKx3 was also weakening, his body was practically self destructing which is why he had to push harder to KKx4. All of these events are consistent with their given power levels.
Gohan was getting tortured and Krillin threw the SB, what doesn't make sense in regards to their respective power levels here?
Don't ignore the context of those fights.
Mister Wolf
Member
Can you imagine if 17 was stronger than Vegeta.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I mean that's pretty much what the entirety of db was built on it's always gonna be a prominent discussion. Now more than ever because of the tournamentSo we're talking power levels again?
Undead Fantasy
Member
Yes please.
Whis shouldn't even be able to gauge 17's strength actually.
until it's revealed that the reason his energy can't be sensed is because it's god ki.
The Silver
Member
When is Goku gonna look for the man who beat him, Jackie Chun, I don't think he ever found out he was Roshi.
- Status