Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.

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Undead Fantasy said:
Getting stronger is fine but he literally got thousands upon thousands of times stronger.

It's bullshit.
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Piccolo that kept training hit a wall, and was pure shit somehow gets up there for no reason within a few months at best and you're fine with it.

It's getting really hard to tolerate your hipocrisy.
 
foxuzamaki said:
He's a cyborg freak. I actually find him getting that much stronger in 10 years far more believable than Frieza training for 4 months and coming back and giving SSB a run for its money
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I think most of us can agree that both 17 and Frieza getting hundreds of times stronger off screen is stupid.

Arguing which power surge is more stupid is kind of futile at this point, the writers will just make any character as strong as they want them to be at any given time; Super isn't a show based on logic when it comes to strength levels. They can bring Nappa or Raditz back and put them at Mystic Gohan levels and it would just be standard Super affair.
 
roflwaffles said:
I think most of us can agree that both 17 and Frieza getting hundreds of times stronger off screen is stupid.
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I strongly disagree. If Goku, the main hero, can have insane power-ups, why can't the main villain from an old arc have the same? We have sat through Goku, Vegeta and the other saiyans being able to have transformation after transformation. Training is supposed to be important. They do it largely off-screen and most often it's the power-up, not the training that puts Goku and the other saiyans over their opponents. It wasn't training that kept Vegeta a constant growing threat to Frieza's army in the Frieza arc. It was the power-up Saiyans get as they heal after nearly dying. If training really is important and some sort of equalizer then we should see evidence of that. I'm thrilled 17 may be the third strongest on the team (I'd be fine if it were Piccolo as well). Gold Frieza doesn't bother me in the slightest.
 
NeonBlack said:
Vegeta: Well it's about damn time!



I'm guessing you didn't watch the last episode.
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Of course it was in the one episode I didn't see yet
 
RareFantasy64 said:
I strongly disagree. If Goku, the main hero, can have insane power-ups, why can't the main villain from an old arc have the same? We have sat through Goku, Vegeta and the other saiyans being able to have transformation after transformation. Training is supposed to be important. They do it largely off-screen and most often it's the power-up, not the training that puts Goku and the other saiyans over their opponents. It wasn't training that kept Vegeta a constant growing threat to Frieza's army in the Frieza arc. It was the power-up Saiyans get as they heal after nearly dying. If training really is important and some sort of equalizer then we should see evidence of that. I'm thrilled 17 may be the third strongest on the team (I'd be fine if it were Piccolo as well). Gold Frieza doesn't bother me in the slightest.
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I think Goku having insane power-ups of that magnitude is stupid as well. This isn't a problem exclusive to Super - the jumps in power in DBZ were illogical and ruined the sense of power scaling long ago.

In this case, Goku and Vegeta had to undergo "god training" in order to hit their new peaks, and that's before all of the Cell Saga/Buu Saga stuff - Frieza just beats up a dude for 4 months and thats enough. I'm not opposed to having an old villain being brought back to prominence and be a threat to the heroes; its just that the way Super goes about it is lazy and unimaginative.
 
The Silver said:
he'll probably be proud, dude was always salty Gohan slacked off after Cell, and he was person he wanted to recruit for the Champa tournament.

You know Gohan was the 1st person Vegeta has ever apologized to.
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I think part of why Vegeta's always so salty is that he's always had to work super hard to get stronger. Dude's always trained like crazy ever since he got introduced, then Gohan hits puberty and leaves everyone in the dust. Then instead of training he goes and becomes a scholar, allowing himself to become weaker. Vegeta probably looks at it as a waste of talent and is kinda insulted by it given how hard he works.
 
Cabba's master is one hundred times better than this lolicon gangster wtf

He's like seven samurai levels of badass, just wish his leg better!!
 
So Gohan is going to mess around with Piccolo and be the second or third strongest guy in his universe after 9 hours of training. Sounds good to me.
 
Vice said:
So Gohan is going to mess around with Piccolo and be the second or third strongest guy in his universe after 9 hours of training. Sounds good to me.
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All this time he's had the potential to be the 3rd strongest. Right now I don't think he's stronger than #17, so 4th strongest right now I guess, until a few episodes anyway.
Prior to BoG, he had the potential to be the strongest.

And this isn't anything new, Vegeta flat out said Gohan could be the strongest if he kept training.
 
Skeeter49 said:
All this time he's had the potential to be the 3rd strongest. Right now I don't think he's stronger than #17, so 4th strongest right now I guess, until a few episodes anyway.
Prior to BoG, he had the potential to be the strongest.

And this isn't anything new, Vegeta flat out said Gohan could be the strongest if he kept training.
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I like it, these out of nowehere powerups are a Dragon Ball staple. Its just that the last few have been through magic(mystic Gohan, SSJ God, fusion) or new forms (ssj3, ssj blue). So getting stronger from just training with no new form feels a bit like a throwback.
 
I'd like to remind yall, that when yamcha, piccolo, tien and chaotzu all died fighting nappa, they made goku's whole training arc before then a big joke, they ran snake way in less of a time then goku and also got stronger than goku, like waaaaaay stronger than goku during their time on king kai's planet, now benefit of the doubt that they were already trained up before dying, but they got insane gains that toriyama never really took advantage of.
 
I'm fine with them chaning things up, but now it's time to commit to them.
17 is on par with Vegeta and Goku, it needs to stay like that consistently until Goku or Vegeta gets a new powerup.

Same for Gohan

Piccolo is on par with SSJ2, not as strong as mystic, so don't make him on par with Blue Goku/ Vegeta/ Gohan in a few episodes/ 17.

Everyone else seems to be where they need to be, though the wild cards are Buu and Roshi, maybe Tien as well, where we don't know how much they've changed. We don't know how much that training/ slimming down helped Buu, and we don't know if Roshi will retain that power he has in the next episode, and while it's unlikely Tien will get a power boost, it's always a possibility.

18 and Krillin don't seem to have changed much.
 
foxuzamaki said:
I'd like to remind yall, that when yamcha, piccolo, tien and chaotzu all died fighting nappa, they made goku's whole training arc before then a big joke, they ran snake way in less of a time then goku and also got stronger than goku, like waaaaaay stronger than goku during their time on king kai's planet, now benefit of the doubt that they were already trained up before dying, but they got insane gains that toriyama never really took advantage of.
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I hated how this never amounted to anything. They trained throughout the entire Namek/Freeza arcs and it never, ever mattered. None of them ever mattered again until Super, except for Tien for two minor appearances.

Edit: Except Piccolo, he lasted up until first form Cell
 
I really wanna see Vegeta mad at the possibility of Gohan + 17 (along with Hit) taking his spot as 2nd strongest mortal* :P


*
That is not currently an enemy!
 
foxuzamaki said:
I'd like to remind yall, that when yamcha, piccolo, tien and chaotzu all died fighting nappa, they made goku's whole training arc before then a big joke, they ran snake way in less of a time then goku and also got stronger than goku, like waaaaaay stronger than goku during their time on king kai's planet, now benefit of the doubt that they were already trained up before dying, but they got insane gains that toriyama never really took advantage of.
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To be fair, all 4 of them were stronger than Goku when they ran Snake Way. Piccolo was over 8 times stronger.

We also never knew how strong they became with that training. Tenshinhan and the Pokemon trained almost double the time Goku did. Yamcha a month less.
 
What's really funny is that if Goku gets mystic form+, then they'll absolutely say Uub is fighting him in that form too during the end of Z retelling :p .

I'm really struggling to see what Vegeta can bring to the table.

Gohan has nothing unique so he needs the raw power.

17 has his speed and defense + whatever he is holding back

Goku has the genius improvisation and techniques

Vegeta... can go blue and that's it. He's like a worse Gohan at this point.

Undead Fantasy said:
Until Piccolo fights like that with Blue Goku it's not bullshit.
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According to you he is beyond super saiyan god level right now.


Because the lack of exposition regarding 17 is bothersome, but it has mystery to entertain it.
He has infinite energy, maybe he learned how to use it better to amplify his abilities. And the earth point has no value, Goku trains on King Kai's planet which is only x10, he passed Vegeta countless times that was training with his gravity machine with far higher gravity. It probably makes gains faster if trained well, but still, not mandatory for gains to happen. You can train on your own, whether to utilize your energy better or come up with techniques, train your speed etc...

It would have been better if we saw it, but at least it leaves you wondering, there's nothing against it.


Piccolo on the other hand, we have seen him train constantly and being completely left behind. So for him to break the limits without us seeing it even though he was always around and nobody ever mentioned it, is a bit hard to swallow.

I'm fine with it, but I can't let you call this perfectly fine while shitting on the other case.
 
foxuzamaki said:
I'd like to remind yall, that when yamcha, piccolo, tien and chaotzu all died fighting nappa, they made goku's whole training arc before then a big joke, they ran snake way in less of a time then goku and also got stronger than goku, like waaaaaay stronger than goku during their time on king kai's planet, now benefit of the doubt that they were already trained up before dying, but they got insane gains that toriyama never really took advantage of.
Click to expand...

The gains didn't matter much after Piccolo fused, Goku trained at 100 times Earth's gravity, potential got unlocked and super saiyan was achieved. You had characters getting 100 times stronger over the course of one arc then getting big boosts as soon as the next one started.
 
Dragon Ball taught me that growth is infinite, power is entirely relative, and that if you try your best
and have good genetics and/or easy access to top tier training programs from the literal best people in the world and/or universe
you can always go beyond your goals.

Cybernetic implants are also an acceptable alternative to genetics
 
I feel so fucking vindicated about
telling people to stop jumping to conclusions about the whole two female saiyan designs right now. So many people saying that they were the same character and a design was thrown out. Some times people should just WAIT.
 
C-upA0fVYAAXbCQ.jpg:large



I really dig how 17 has now been part of virtually every single marketing piece they've made since he returned.

Thank the gods.
 
ArchedThunder said:
I feel so fucking vindicated about
telling people to stop jumping to conclusions about the whole two female saiyan designs right now. So many people saying that they were the same character and a design was thrown out. Some times people should just WAIT.
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This is going to sound hypocritical coming from someone complaining about no adult U6 Saiyans a few hours ago (although in my defense he hadn't been mentioned or hinted at at all in this thread that I saw), but this is how I feel about story arcs in general. People always jump to conclusions based on chapters or episodes when the arc itself is nowhere near over. Everything hasn't happened yet, we don't know everything, there could always be a curveball. Speculation is fine, but people need to stop losing their shit and chill out a little.
 
SolVanderlyn said:
This is going to sound hypocritical coming from someone complaining about no adult U6 Saiyans a few hours ago (although in my defense he hadn't been mentioned or hinted at at all in this thread that I saw), but this is how I feel about story arcs in general. People always jump to conclusions based on chapters or episodes when the arc itself is nowhere near over. Everything hasn't happened yet, we don't know everything, there could always be a curveball. Speculation is fine, but people need to stop losing their shit and chill out a little.
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Right? We speculate all the damn time in here, but there is a difference between speculation and jumping to conclusions. Sometimes this fanbase needs to chill.
 
Imagine though.

They're telling one of the players "ok so we Riyoji is gonna be Goku, Akira is gonna be 17... shinnosuke you're gonna be yamcha".

Suicide watch.
 
RareFantasy64 said:
I strongly disagree. If Goku, the main hero, can have insane power-ups, why can't the main villain from an old arc have the same? We have sat through Goku, Vegeta and the other saiyans being able to have transformation after transformation. Training is supposed to be important. They do it largely off-screen and most often it's the power-up, not the training that puts Goku and the other saiyans over their opponents. It wasn't training that kept Vegeta a constant growing threat to Frieza's army in the Frieza arc. It was the power-up Saiyans get as they heal after nearly dying. If training really is important and some sort of equalizer then we should see evidence of that. I'm thrilled 17 may be the third strongest on the team (I'd be fine if it were Piccolo as well). Gold Frieza doesn't bother me in the slightest.
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Even before transformations, we had a few nonsense power boosts, that's just how Dragon Ball is.

We had Goku going from Ginyu tier to Frieza final form tier just from healing (I know, I know, zenkai boost, but, what an extreme boost this one was).
Even Vegeta, he went from... I guess somewhere between Jeice and Ginyu (when he beat up Jeice, doubt he was stronger than Ginyu at this point) to Frieza first form tier by... doing nothing?

In the end characters are just as strong as they need to be for the plot.
 
The Silver said:
Can't the dub just skip ahead and do the baseball episode already? I need it.
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I am quite interested in how those that haven't seen the sub will react to the Arale episode. There was nothing in Dragon Ball Z that compares to it, and so many people began their exposure to the manga/show with Gohan being kidnapped by Radditz.
 
ArchedThunder said:
I feel so fucking vindicated about
telling people to stop jumping to conclusions about the whole two female saiyan designs right now. So many people saying that they were the same character and a design was thrown out. Some times people should just WAIT.
Click to expand...
Some people were thinking there could only be one but eh... We'll see I guess.
 
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