HoopzBarkley
Member
It seems like they have been doing a lot of focus on speedforce info last season and this season. Its already a confusing thing but have people been upset how they been explaining it?
The Flash S3 |OT| It was me, Barry.
- Thread starter ZeroX03
- Start date
BLOODED_hands
Member
For GAF and Reddit, people have been questioning it but like some in here have said.... Many don't even question it and just go with it.
We are cynics and we question and critique everything but to the average viewer, they don't give 2 fucks lol.
For now, many just coasts by and saying whatever happens, happens.
Just_myles
Member
Yeah, even in the comics this concept got kind of old. I think I hit critical mass when Wally started
to create his costume from it.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Indeed.
Zoom was an incredible villain. Felt menacing and threatening right until the very end.
I've gotten bored of Savitar, though this reveal was pretty nice. Will be interesting how things will turn out next week.
Don't retcon the S2 thread. People were pissed at the Zoom reveal.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Yeah, Zoom's atmospheric threat level collapsed pretty quickly, after a good first few scenes across the first.. say half dozen episodes.
Show hasn't managed to match S1 in many ways.
Show hasn't managed to match S1 in many ways.
Yeah, Zoom reveal was dumb as all hell. Heck, it would have been a much better reveal/villain if it wasn't some "he's a mass serial killer known by all but we seemed to not be able to recognize him without facial hair." backstory..
Zoom, pre-reveal, was a damn monster. The way he completely destroyed Barry was very scary.
Zoom pulled a Kylo Ren, just wasn't scary after the reveal
That Zoom reveal was dumb as fuck but it led to what became Jay pulling Barry outta the speedforce anytime he does something stupid
Teddy Sears is a good actor but he was miscast here. Zoom lost a great deal of menace after he was unmasked.
BLOODED_hands
Member
Just based on Zoom's word, he has been taking down Earths for a long ass time. If we compared that to Barry, and even Future Barry/Savitar, we know Barry hasn't done much compared to Zoom.
Zoom was just that dude. If we took his word for truth then he is fucking scary and powerful but if we take his actions then Barry taking him down was just as scary and, maybe we should be scared of any iteration of Barry.
Zoom was just that dude. If we took his word for truth then he is fucking scary and powerful but if we take his actions then Barry taking him down was just as scary and, maybe we should be scared of any iteration of Barry.
Septimus Prime
Member
Wouldn't that make Zoom the first speedster, then?
Savitar is Zoom!?
Savitar is Zoom!?
bone_and_sinew
breaking down barriers in gratuitous nudity
They never should've made Zoom human. Just make him a pure energy being living in the suit. The Caitlin romance was all sorts of cringe. It also allowed the writers to make him act stupid when convenient.
It's almost a small miracle our boy Eobard wasn't mistreated by the writers as the Big Bad on two shows. Even in death he's still right about what he says and haunting Barry!
It's almost a small miracle our boy Eobard wasn't mistreated by the writers as the Big Bad on two shows. Even in death he's still right about what he says and haunting Barry!
BLOODED_hands
Member
Lol. That's why it's so hard to take anything by their words. Zoom should be this powerful ass Speedster yet he lost to our Barry. The Barry that let Patty go. The Barry that gave up his speed to Zolomon. The Barry who blitz not one, but two super powered Gorrillas and thought it was a good idea to blitz them both when he tried unsuccessfully with Solovar. Yes that Barry defeated Zoom.
Barry Allen is his, and our own worst enemy.
HoopzBarkley
Member
Yeah they really need to stop with the whole mystery reveal and somone betrays you deal. It worked really well for season one because we knew from episode 1 that wells was shady, if season 4 really is Devoe then at least we know the name and we are aware of it. Im fine with it being a mystery to the team, as long as the audience knows.
Forsaken82
Member
They haven't really HAD to make Savitar feel "threatening" because they literally show how he basically is destroying Barry's life and how that affects those around him...
Just the knowledge that Savitar will kill Iris in the future has caused an insane butterfly effect that can be considered worse than a zoom beatdown.
Consider for a second that the knowledge of Iris' death at the hands of Savitar have shattered Barry's relationship with Iris, caused Caitlin to go full Killer Frost, psychologically broke Wally down (and who knows whatelse really... There has to be some sort of negative effect of Alchemy's cocoon that has yet to surface), resulted in Jay Garrick being lost in the Speedforce... the list really goes on for Team Flash, that while maybe not as physically threatening as previous speedsters, I think it can be argued that Savitar has been the most Psychologically threatening. I guess it depends on how you look at it.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
There is a lot of inconsistency with Savitar. Like they say he's this God, but then he appears and literally acts like every monster in a video game when you first meet them, flex and then roar. Then you unravel that and he's not this beast, he's a guy in a suit. How he talks when they used Julian, how he acts, and what he actually is are all at odds with each other.
Mix Master
Member
A guy in a terrible looking suit to boot.
TheGreatDirector
Banned
Sounds like Barry Allen to me.
BLOODED_hands
Member
Yeah, even for this show, the writing/plotting around Savitar is just insane - literally makes no sense. Gotta say, I still enjoy the overall team dynamics & crew the Flash has around but next season REALLY needs to freshen up the storytelling. I dropped Arrow during Season 4 for its bad plotting & was pleasantly surprised with Season 5 being a strong return to form for that show, baring the last two episodes being slightly below the season's overall quality.
Right now, The Flash is feeling really stale & seems like the writers are running out of good ideas. Season 4 can't be a repeat of the same story they've told for the past three seasons. Here's hoping that next season's major villian not being a Speedster can give this show the jolt of momentum it needs.
I hope they fix how Jays explanation of him of being this Speedster legend who challenges other speedsters makes no sense from what we know of him. Though it mostly because his motivation is ill defined at this moment.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Savitar can exist at any time and any place once created. He's like the Reverse Flash who was working his way backwards through time.
I have more questions but will wait for the next ep
Jorok Goldblade
Member
The next question is that if Savitar is Barry, where do the Philosopher's Stone and the ability to grant powers come from?
The writing team had no idea what the fuck they were gonna do with Savitar.
in the early goings he was like 10ft tall, roared like an animal, and had an Alien tongue thing in his mouth.
wouldn't that be future savitar?
one could argue the suit and Barry melded together. in the speedforce
*shrug*
one could argue that, but I ain't gonna give them a pass on this because in any event, the setup was very sloppy.
edit: actually no, I'm going to still say the writing team didn't know what to do with Savitar because if Barry somehow melding with the suit were a legitimate event, it would have been shown on screen. This show is not subtle enough for me to believe that that's what they were going for.
Some shit Barry develops in the future, probably.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
He made them out of Speed Force. They established that when they were trying to analyze his armor.
Septimus Prime
Member
Remember when the Arrow guys wrote a graveyard scene but didn't know who would be in the grave?
Man, those were some
Man, we've really reached Arrow season 4 levels, haven't we?
But! I don't think Flash has bottomed out yet. There's still a chance for a rebound in the last few eps.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I believe that they decided Savitar was going to be Barry at the beginning of the season, I honestly do. The evidence for this is that it's literally an idea they were going to do for season 2 with Zoom but decided instead to use Jay Garrick (Teddy Sears claims he was cast with this specific information in mind, so, no, they apparently didn't decided to make Garrick into Zoom halfway through, either).
Savitar's early appearance and early behavior probably stems from the fact that they wanted to try and differentiate this speedster from all the other ones. Any discrepancies between the early episodes' CGI model and the suit are just that: discrepancies.
The more I think about it, the more I think they should have gone with their original plan of making Zoom the evil Barry. I think they could have played almost all the same cards during that season and the reveal would have worked so much better.
Savitar's early appearance and early behavior probably stems from the fact that they wanted to try and differentiate this speedster from all the other ones. Any discrepancies between the early episodes' CGI model and the suit are just that: discrepancies.
The more I think about it, the more I think they should have gone with their original plan of making Zoom the evil Barry. I think they could have played almost all the same cards during that season and the reveal would have worked so much better.
This thread has any rate.
I get people have a hate on fir this show now, but it's not enjoyable to post in this thread. People are going way over the top with ridiculous hyperbole about how awful the show is.
broncobuster
Banned
I feel it would've worked better had they cast another actor as older Barry. You'd get a double twist of a character being Savitar, and that person being a future Barry. Say, hypothetically, HR's partner from Earth-19 to lean into cliches. Could've had the Savitar reveal earlier in the season, with the second twist that it's future Barry saved for later.
Zelenogorsk
Banned
I just learned that Teddy Sears is 40 and my mind has been blown. He looked young in season 2.
People are disappointed, it's understandable. It's all relative. I don't think anyone's saying the show is awful, but instead are expressing how awful it feels to see it decline like it has.
Yes. At the Zoom reveal. Zoom was going strong before the reveal outside of the stupid drop a villain stuff. Reveal him to be John Wesley Ship and reveal that Teddy is just a coward time remnant of the real Jay Garrick, and I'm betting we would be looking back a lot more positive at the season.
Also write out Iris for Patty.
It doesn't work because we know Iris won't die. He will save her at the last minute. It makes an impression on the characters but we that watch know how stuff like this is resolved. A last minute save or twist.
Holy moly I totally forgot about that future message.
Please be excited.