Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.

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It's pretty funny to me how people were still trying to deny Freeza actually coming back when it was confirmed a week ago.

If Gohan could become relevant again in like a single training day after what he was at the start of Super, anything could be possible.
 
Zero-ELEC said:
91sErRv.png


We need to have a talk, YouTube.
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Cancer
 
Chaotic-Strike said:
It's pretty funny to me how people were still trying to deny Freeza actually coming back when it was confirmed a week ago.

If Gohan could become relevant again in like a single training day after what he was at the start of Super, anything could be possible.
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Most of it was denial and think Toei was trying to 'fill time'. Fill time for what? Apparently so the Super manga that few people gives a shit about could catch up according to them.
 
HeroR said:
Most of it was denial and think Toei was trying to 'fill time'. Fill time for what?
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I can think of one reason that they could fill time for, having outsourced or lower quality animation episodes to give the tournament episodes more production time, I guess.
 
Chaotic-Strike said:
The manga is just an advertisement for the anime which is why it kind of lost its purpose once it fell behind the anime.
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I wouldn't say that since few fans, especially on Kanzenshuu love the manga and call it the 'saving grace of Super'.

Although, I honestly don't see anything the manga does better than the anime except having constant art, most that is copied from the original manga and Toyo's AF manga, and I can named other artists who are better than Toyo. Toyo's storytelling skills is also so subpar that it hurts reading his stuff at times.

ezodagrom said:
I can think of one reason that they could fill time for, having outsourced or lower quality animation episodes to give the tournament episodes more production time, I guess.
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That was another theory. Although why fill time bringing back Frieza is a tease made no sense.
 
HeroR said:
That was another theory. Although why fill time bringing back
Frieza
is a tease made no sense.
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Should probably still spoiler that, I guess.

Anyway,
introducing Fit Buu to not use him doesn't really make sense either, but at this point it's almost certain that Frieza will be in the tournament, mhmm.
Though there's still a very small chance they could be teasing Frieza to get people to guess if he'll actually participate or not, to get people talking, only to not use him in the end.
 
BkzUzi said:
I'm one of those people that think the Super Manga is better than the Anime.
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At least there's not BS power stuff.

The Trunks arc in the manga was on the trajectory to be better than the anime version but now I just consider them both to be wasted potential and not worth ranking.
 
Icyflamez96 said:
At least there's not BS power stuff.

The Trunks arc in the manga was on the trajectory to be better than the anime version but now I just consider them both to be wasted potential and not worth ranking.
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Yeah, that's why I prefer it haha.
I still think the Trunks manga arc so far is better than the anime version. They fixed a bunch of stuff from the anime which I disliked such as making Goku a moron(Yeah he brings the wrong tag in the manga, but at least he didn't forget the sense beans and the seal), fixed the power level (You don't see Trunks getting a random power level boost and being on par with Black, and it makes sense that the Black fusion would get stomped like in the manga since the green Kai was never shown to be powerful), and it cut out the filler stuff such as the multiple visits to the past. But we haven't reach the ending yet, so the manga could still go down.

Undead Fantasy said:
A very small group.
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Maybe in this thread, but internet wise. Nah, I don't think so.
 
Icyflamez96 said:
At least there's not BS power stuff.

The Trunks arc in the manga was on the trajectory to be better than the anime version but now I just consider them both to be wasted potential and not worth ranking.
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There is plenty of BS power stuff in the manga just by looking at Super Saiyan God Vegeta. From LampLanguage from Reddit:

SSB ramps overall power level which in DBZ decides your speed, defence, and power. it's not like SSBeefcake mode that only ramps up power at the cost of speed. SSG Vegeta wouldn't be able to even get close to SSR black, the only explanation is that Vegeta trained so hard that both his SSG and SSB form surpassed black. Thus it's still just about being stronger and the new tech Vegeta developed just helps him stomp with less stamina drain when he's already stomping.

It also makes less sense in the manga Canon, because in the manga the majority of SSB's stamina drain is transforming into it, not maintenance. In the tournament arc Vegeta went SSB for a second and flicked cabbage, and the drain was so bad his SSB power was cut in half next time he transformed against hit.


Also, there is the whole thing with Black being stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks in his base, who is as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, yet he struggled with Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 1/2. Or how Super Saiyan 1/2 Black kicked Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta's butt before he even went Rose. Meaning that Vegeta did a massive power jump to beat up Super Saiyan Rose Black in their rematched as a Super Saiyan God,which runs into the problems I noted above.

caliph95 said:
It's a common sentiment from glancing at it in reddit so i don't think it's small
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Reddit is hardly a majority of anything. Even then, it depends on which thread you go into.

BkzUzi said:
Yeah, that's why I prefer it haha.
I still think the Trunks manga arc so far is better than the anime version. They fixed a bunch of stuff from the anime which I disliked such as making Goku a moron(Yeah he brings the wrong tag in the manga, but at least he didn't forget the sense beans and the seal), fixed the power level (You don't see Trunks getting a random power level boost and being on par with Black, and it makes sense that the Black fusion would get stomped like in the manga since the green Kai was never shown to be powerful), and it cut out the filler stuff such as the multiple visits to the past. But we haven't reach the ending yet, so the manga could still go down.

Maybe in this thread, but internet wise. Nah, I don't think so.
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Future Zamasu in the anime traded hands with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku. So what do you even mean by "the green Kai was never shown to be powerful". And Trunks kicked black once as Super Saiyan 2 and never touched him again until he got Super Saiyan Rage.

It only cut one visit to the past, in which a lot of stuff happened that affected the story, so how is it 'filler'?

Also internet =/= majority. And if we're going to used the internet, people did polls about what do they prefer the anime or the manga. The anime wins most of time by a nice percentage.
 
I didn't think it was Toei trying to waste time for the manga, but I wouldn't put it past Toei to waste time to add more drama before the fighting starts.
With the info we had a week ago, it easily could have led to nothing.

Whether it's good or not, and it could be handled really well, they handled the buildup and the marketing poorly. That can't be argued, so whatever.
 
BkzUzi said:
Yeah, that's why I prefer it haha.
I still think the Trunks manga arc so far is better than the anime version. They fixed a bunch of stuff from the anime which I disliked such as making Goku a moron(Yeah he brings the wrong tag in the manga, but at least he didn't forget the sense beans and the seal), fixed the power level (You don't see Trunks getting a random power level boost and being on par with Black, and it makes sense that the Black fusion would get stomped like in the manga since the green Kai was never shown to be powerful), and it cut out the filler stuff such as the multiple visits to the past. But we haven't reach the ending yet, so the manga could still go down.
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I always thought there were pros and cons with both versions. I just very recently started losing steam with the manga version because I don't like how it seems like Trunks will have no relevance, and if he does, it'll happen too late. I liked his transformation in the anime and don't consider that to be BS. What I do consider BS is him randomly being on par with SSB Goku in that tag team episode (before he gets his transformation), Black's power boosts never being explained, Black's random black hole clones, etc. Some things happening with Merged Zamasu in the anime I would have normally tried to rationalize it in some way I feel like, but I can't let it slide when so many other things are shabby in that arc.

But yeah I definitely agree with you on the pros of the manga version.
 
Personally am sick and tired of freeza, he became a joke character when pretty boy trunks cut him like a bitch.

I was so looking forward to buu fighting some more :(

At least oda shows his villain more respect like crocodile is still a badass with super swag, enel achieved his dream to go the moon and wapol went from rags to becoming a self made king with a beautiful wife
 
Cwarrior said:
Personally am sick and tired of freeza, he became a joke character when pretty boy trunks cut him like a bitch.

At least oda shows his villain more respect like crocodile is still a badass with super swag, enel achieved his dream to go the moon and wapol went from rags to becoming a self mad king with a beautiful wife
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Literally half the team is composed of ex villains...

Piccolo, 18, 17, Vegeta, (Buu), Tien.
 
Watching movie 13 for the first time.
Videl: Tapion isn't real and this is stupid.
1 minute later
Videl: Isn't this exciting we get to meet Tapion.

Trunks seems to be a focus in this movie, from what I can tell, which I like.
 
HeroR said:
There is plenty of BS power stuff in the manga just by looking at Super Saiyan God Vegeta. From LampLanguage from Reddit:

SSB ramps overall power level which in DBZ decides your speed, defence, and power. it's not like SSBeefcake mode that only ramps up power at the cost of speed. SSG Vegeta wouldn't be able to even get close to SSR black, the only explanation is that Vegeta trained so hard that both his SSG and SSB form surpassed black. Thus it's still just about being stronger and the new tech Vegeta developed just helps him stomp with less stamina drain when he's already stomping.
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Was it ever explained that way in the manga? The manga may work differently than Super in terms of explanations, but it makes sense and doesn't contradict itself. I remember the U6 tournamanet saga doing something tranformation/power wise that I didn't like and that contradicted Super, but it made sense within its own version. Anyway, the later point is a fine explanation anyway.

It also makes less sense in the manga Canon, because in the manga the majority of SSB's stamina drain is transforming into it, not maintenance. In the tournament arc Vegeta went SSB for a second and flicked cabbage, and the drain was so bad his SSB power was cut in half next time he transformed against hit.
Click to expand...

Which is dumb and something I didn't like in that version of the arc, but I just assume Vegeta trained out of that.

Also, there is the whole thing with Black being stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks in his base, who is as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, yet he struggled with Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 1/2. Or how Super Saiyan 1/2 Black kicked Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta's butt before he even went Rose. Meaning that Vegeta did a massive power jump to beat up Super Saiyan Rose Black in their rematched as a Super Saiyan God,which runs into the problems I noted above.
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We've had this discussion before and why that can be very fairly justified doesn't "not make any sense" like you were claiming before.

Reddit is hardly a majority of anything. Even then, it depends on which thread you go into.
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Are you assuming Neogaf is the majority of anything? Are you assuming people posting on the internet are the majority of anything when it comes to Super opinions? Obviously it's going by people who've read the manga and seen the anime, and who chose to weigh in their opinions on the matter. Definitely not a "small minority" there.
 
Slaythe said:
Literally half the team is composed of ex villains...

Piccolo, 18, 17, Vegeta, (Buu), Tien.
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*villains that stay villains

That list is small, I know

It's like, counting dead villains... Freeza, Cell, Raditz/Nappa, Ginyu Force, Tao Pai Pai, Future Androids, Babidi, King Piccolo's entourage

Not counting dead people it's pretty much just Tao Pai Pai. Red Ribbon guys too I guess

Edit: OK it is not as small as I initially thought
 
Zero-ELEC said:
91sErRv.png


We need to have a talk, YouTube.
Click to expand...

YouTube is well past the time for talk, considering all they're doing is re-upping clips of someone else's stuff with a clickbaity ass image. Can't monetize it, so I don't even know what the point is other than to maybe drive traffic to content they actually own. Who needs deviant art when you have YouTube thumbnails though.
 
To be honest I'm kinda sad that so many people have strong feelings about the
Freeza
thing, even those who were really loving the arc.

I mean the past few months (except for 17's week I guess) felt like the golden age of Dragon Ball. New direction, new opening, new art direction, new cast, old characters are relevant, actual build-up episodes. Everything was going so well and most people were actually happy and satisfied with Super. I never cared for Super before and this arc made it something I watch on a weekly basis.

What am I trying to say is, it will be sad returning to the "Super is shit/Dragon ball is ruined" atmosphere after how dreamy and happy everything felt for the last few months lol.
 
Icyflamez96 said:
Was it ever explained that way in the manga? The manga may work differently than Super in terms of explanations, but it makes sense and doesn't contradict itself. I remember the U6 tournamanet saga doing something tranformation/power wise that I didn't like and that contradicted Super, but it made sense within its own version. Anyway, the later point is a fine explanation anyway.



Which is dumb and something I didn't like in that version of the arc, but I just assume Vegeta trained out of that.



We've had this discussion before and why that can be very fairly justified doesn't "not make any sense" like you were claiming before.



Are you assuming Neogaf is the majority of anything? Are you assuming people posting on the internet are the majority of anything when it comes to Super opinions? Obviously it's going by people who've read the manga and seen the anime, and who chose to weigh in their opinions on the matter. Definitely not a "small minority" there.
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The Super Saiyan God rant I quote used points directly from the Super manga.

Would be nice if the manga actually stated that.

That he was holding back? Then why bother to even transform? He didn't against Trunks and Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 should be inferior to Trunks'.

I have never claimed that Neogaf is the majority. All fandom on the internet is a small vocal minority. If it wasn't, no would like Twilght or watched anything with Michael Bay's name on it.
 
Solid Sora said:
To be honest I'm kinda sad that so many people have strong feelings about the
Freeza
thing, even those who were really loving the arc.

I mean the past few months (except for 17's week I guess) felt like the golden age of Dragon Ball. New direction, new opening, new art direction, new cast, old characters are relevant, actual build-up episodes. Everything was going so well and most people were actually happy and satisfied with Super. I never cared for Super before and this arc made it something I watch on a weekly basis.

What am I trying to say is, it will be sad returning to the "Super is shit/Dragon ball is ruined" atmosphere after how dreamy and happy everything felt for the last few months lol.
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For me,
what's the most disappointing is not Freeza returning, but Buu getting the shaft yet again, and again with the same lousy excuse that he's sleeping. This time it's especially disappointing due to how they teased slim Buu
.
 
HeroR said:
The Super Saiyan God rant I quote used points directly from the Super manga.
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Yeah didn't Vegeta basically address that anyway? The only thing worse about SSB was the energy drain.

I have never claimed that Neogaf is the majority. All fandom on the internet is a small vocal minority. If it wasn't, no would like Twilght or watched anything with Michael Bay's name on it.
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This is why your last comment was weird to me.
 
Those youtube videos are like the 2010s version of the old websites that would claim that Future Trunks got his sword from Tapion and that if Ultimate Gohan ever went Super Saiyan the Earth would explode. I believed those two for a long time.
 
Icyflamez96 said:
Yeah didn't Vegeta basically address that anyway? The only thing worse about SSB was the energy drain.



This is why your last comment was weird to me.
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Not just energy. His speed, endurance, everything should be inferior to Rose. Black should have been able to dodge and counter Vegeta before he 'briefly' went Blue to attack.

Someone said Reddit loved the manga so it wasn't a small number. I said Reddit isn't a majority and even then it depends on the thread.
 
Solid Sora said:
To be honest I'm kinda sad that so many people have strong feelings about the
Freeza
thing, even those who were really loving the arc.

I mean the past few months (except for 17's week I guess) felt like the golden age of Dragon Ball. New direction, new opening, new art direction, new cast, old characters are relevant, actual build-up episodes. Everything was going so well and most people were actually happy and satisfied with Super. I never cared for Super before and this arc made it something I watch on a weekly basis.

What am I trying to say is, it will be sad returning to the "Super is shit/Dragon ball is ruined" atmosphere after how dreamy and happy everything felt for the last few months lol.
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No one knows how this arc will go, and no matter what people say, one change isn't going to ruin the arc for people, if they didn't' like the arc, they weren't going to like it because of
Frieza
and several other things, not just the spoiler, like some people don't like the power scaling.

It's just annoying right now, because all the marketing has led to one thing, and this is the
Second time with Buu
they've done it.

This paints a bigger picture for the future. Any marketing we see for future arcs, there are 0 reasons to believe it'll happen.
 
HeroR said:
SSB ramps overall power level which in DBZ decides your speed, defence, and power. it's not like SSBeefcake mode that only ramps up power at the cost of speed. SSG Vegeta wouldn't be able to even get close to SSR black, the only explanation is that Vegeta trained so hard that both his SSG and SSB form surpassed black. Thus it's still just about being stronger and the new tech Vegeta developed just helps him stomp with less stamina drain when he's already stomping.
Click to expand...

Nah. There's a panel clearly showing Vegeta using Blue even before throwing a punch. He's using it for movement too, not just landing the hit itself.

It also makes less sense in the manga Canon, because in the manga the majority of SSB's stamina drain is transforming into it, not maintenance. In the tournament arc Vegeta went SSB for a second and flicked cabbage, and the drain was so bad his SSB power was cut in half next time he transformed against hit.
Click to expand...

That's a common misunderstanding, but one that's really big since it shows they're missing the point of the U6 arc's climax in the manga. Goku had to wait until the perfect chance to get Hit before using his SSB in order to be at full power for it, so clearly the energy drain from sustaining the form is pretty significant too, otherwise Goku's whole stalling tactic to conserve energy in the manga would make no sense. And it was outright stated to be done in order to conserve energy during the battle for the right moment.

During the Vegeta vs Black match, Goku even brings up and explains using the form like that as an "explosion of power" and how with Vegeta's ability to transform in and out of it without eating energy now, he can do the same trick he did, but over and over again.

Also, there is the whole thing with Black being stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Trunks in his base, who is as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku, yet he struggled with Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 1/2. Or how Super Saiyan 1/2 Black kicked Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta's butt before he even went Rose. Meaning that Vegeta did a massive power jump to beat up Super Saiyan Rose Black in their rematched as a Super Saiyan God,which runs into the problems I noted above.
Click to expand...

Really, Vegeta vs Black is the only part that's messy. There are some hints that could help explaining it (Trunks thinking it's odd that Black was losing, Vegeta only acknowledging Black having enough power to beat Trunks once he created a barrier as a SSJ that stopped his SSJ2 blasts, right before going Blue; the statement in the next chapter about Black deliberately wanting to be wounded in order to healed and become stronger), but there's no actual direct explanation about the overall match up, unlike almost everything else in the Super manga.
 
HeroR said:
Not just energy. His speed, endurance, everything should be inferior to Rose. Black should have been able to dodge and counter Vegeta before he 'briefly' went Blue to attack.

Someone said Reddit loved the manga so it wasn't a small number. I said Reddit isn't a majority and even then it depends on the thread.
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You mean Blue?

I mean, it was said in the manga that the power drain was the only thing inferior from SSG to SSB. Where does the manga contradict that otherwise? Also, you gave the explanation for it already. Vegeta could have just trained up his SSG form to be as strong as Rose.

Yes but you were saying that the internet majority isn't even a majority as a detractor to the point, as if anyone were saying so. We can only go off people who keep up with both, and who chose to weigh their opinions in on the matter. The internet majority certainly doesn't even read the manga.
 
NeonZ said:
Nah, that's assuming Vegeta is only using SSB for the hit itself, rather than movement, while there's nothing indicating that he isn't using it for movement too.



That's a common misunderstanding, but one that's really big since it shows they're missing the point of the U6 arc's climax in the manga. Goku had to wait until the perfect change to get Hit before using his SSB in order to be at full power for it, so clearly the energy drain from sustaining the form is pretty significant too, otherwise Goku's whole stalling tactic to conserve energy in the manga would make no sense. And it was outright stated to be done in order to conserve energy during the battle for the right moment.

During the Vegeta vs Black match, Goku even brings up and explains using the form like that as an "explosion of power" and how with Vegeta's ability to transform in and out of it without eating energy now, he can do that over and over again.



Really, Vegeta vs Black is the only part that's messy. There are some hints that could help explaining it (Trunks thinking it's odd that Black was losing, Vegeta only acknowledging Black having enough power to beat Trunks once he created a barrier that stopped his blasts, right before going Blue, the statement in the next chapter about Black deliberately wanting to be wounded in order to healed and become stronger), but there's no actual direct explanation about the overall match up, unlike almost everything else in the Super manga.
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Goku specifically said that Vegeta turn Blue to attack, not movement.

The form was never described as such a drain to maintain, only transforming. At least compared to ever other Super Saiyan form. Only Super Saiyan God have been called super energy efficient. And Goku's own explanation goes against how the form works in the manga since it's a transformation that can't be used over and over again. If that weakness is gone, then what's the point of Super Saiyan God? It needlessly complicated.

Again, Black shouldn't even need to transform since Vegeta's Super Saiyan 2 should be inferior to Trunks' Super Saiyan 2. Plus, nothing in that fight with Vegeta shows him trying to get hurt.

Icyflamez96 said:
You mean Blue?

I mean, it was said in the manga that the power drain was the only thing inferior from SSG to SSB. Where does the manga contradict that otherwise? Also, you gave the explanation for it already. Vegeta could have just trained up his SSG form to be as strong as Rose.

Yes but you were saying that the internet majority isn't even a majority as a detractor to the point, as if anyone were saying so. We can only go off people who keep up with both, and who chose to weigh their opinions in on the matter. The internet majority certainly doesn't even read the manga.
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Rose = Blue since it's the same form with a different color. And he didn't train his Super Saiyan God to match Black. It was inferior, hence Vegeta pulling the burst of Blue.

Even going by the internet, using polls the anime beats the manga most of the time. In fact, some even say they go with the manga version since it's the "hipster thing to do". But again, even I wouldn't used this to prove who likes what more.
 
Controversial opinion, but I don't get the love for Buu as a side-character. He was a great villain (especially as fat Buu) because of the juxtaposition of his outward child-like nature with his inner terrifying monster, as well as his enormous power and regeneration abilities. But as a side-character? He's become completely one dimensional, in my opinion. All he ever wants is candy. That's basically it. There's no hidden motivation or really any deeper meaning to his character and he's not nearly as powerful relatively speaking as he used to be.

Which is why I welcome Frieza's return in a way, because he does have character and because it will be amusing to see his interactions with everyone else, as opposed to Buu being generally silent and adding "I'm hungry/sleepy" when necessary
 
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