Ok.....And....that in no way stops David from turning the very xenomorph looking pod into a facehugger one.
(Ps where in the movie did it say that they aren't related to the wasps.. Looked pretty wasp like to me)
Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
(Ps where in the movie did it say that they aren't related to the wasps.. Looked pretty wasp like to me)
I watched it earlier today. I actually found the pale white skinny original xenomorphs to be way scarier. The blank white featureless face splitting open to reveal that sharp mouth that ripped that soldiers head off in 2 bites, YIKES.
That thing was goddamn terrifying. The actual Xenomorph was way too screechy and athletic to be "creepy"
That thing was goddamn terrifying. The actual Xenomorph was way too screechy and athletic to be "creepy"
Mister Wolf
Member
The relation to the wasp are that they are both mutations of the black goo virus. David said the the first he noticed were the neomorph producing parasitic spores then he goes on to show the wasp that was mutated by the goo.
Ok. Still doesnt mean he didn't use the pods to create the facehuggers. And that absolute non answer in the above Empire podcast to the queen question makes more sense.
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah the neomorphs were a lot more effective for me than the xenomorph stuff. They really should have made the Alien act like it did in the original, it would have been a lot creepier, and would have distinguished it from the hyper animalistic neomorphs.
Mister Wolf
Member
Well yeah he used the pod because the pods produce neomorphs. How he got from neomorph producing spore pods + Mutant parasite wasp = Face huggers they didn't or couldn't explain. Maybe some Shaw's human DNA played a part as well.
The thing that made it work for me is that in Covenant the aliens are an extension of David. In the old movies they were terrifying on their own, but now they're a demonstration of just how fucked up and evil he's become. I didn't really care if they moved or behaved just like in the originals because they weren't filling the same role in this story.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
Way to take an awesome mystery and just butcher it with the lamest, most boring, most obvious answer possible.
Goddamn.
It's like he totally forgot about his old film and was like 'Fuck my own canon, I do what I want.' And if he tries to explain it, it's going to be so convoluted.
Garcia el Gringo
Member
I doubt Scott and the writers are giving the Engineers as much thought in this Covenant era. They're keeping it lean and moving with David. And I get the impression that there's no plan to circle back around to the Engineers in a meaningful way either - their purpose in the story is now that they unintentionally provided David with some motivation and tools, mainly the xenovirus.
And to give a better summary of the paraphrasing I did of Scott, "David has no respect for humans and Engineers," that was the explanation Scott gave as to why David bombed the Engineers. I can believe it's that simple after seeing Covenant and knowing what David's like post-Prometheus. I was thinking it was some deep reason based off of how David "learned their ways" in The Crossing, but it sounds like David's just straight up malevolent towards the meat now. Of course this David, with full agency, would bomb his creators' creators on sight.
I believe the time gap is actually 18 years between the two movies. In any case, I think the Space Jockey thing will be answered within the subsequent movies that Ridley decides to make. What I'm interested in knowing is how the fossilization of the Jockey is going to be explained, what came out of it's chest and how the company learned of the Xenomorph beforehand.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
The next movie will reveal that David is still alive as of the original Alien and he's the one who told them.
Then the one after that is going to be a sequel to all of the Alien movies where David is still alive in the far future playing Wagner and creating even worse aliens.
itwasTuesday
He wasn't alone.
Man those mini ninja aliens would wreck shop against the full size xenos.
I told it not to put some many sour warheads in it's mouth a once.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I know its science fiction and this is a dumb nitpick, but I findit hard to believe the little particles from the spore could produce those neomorphs so quickly. The aliens in the originals were easier to suspend disbelief because an actual meaty embryo with some mass was deposited inside of the host. It was like forcing a fetus into a person. But these neomorphs and the stuff in prometheus is more like john carpenters Thing where they just grow biomass out of nowhere.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Once they got to the full facehuggers they also seemed to hatch and turn into full Aliens WAY quicker than they did in the original movies.
Vincent4756
Member
I hope we get an extended cut with the 4K bluray release. We probably won't as Prometheus didn't.
I enjoyed the movie alot on opening night.
I enjoyed the movie alot on opening night.
CloudyTuba
Member
Finally saw it. There were some parts I loved and other parts that were completely flat.
The introductory portion of the movie was really good. For the first 15 minutes I was really on board.
Later, I basically loved anything to do with David getting weird. All that stuff was super interesting. I wish the movie spent more time down in that strange corner of the story, but instead it was more of a pit stop in between duller moments. The movie would have been a lot more fun if that was a larger portion of it.
There were a couple moments of legitimate tension I enjoyed. The first being the medbay scene with the back breaker. More notably, the scene of the neomorph eating that chick and David having a quiet interaction with it. That was the moment of highest tension for me. Shit was way creepy. Felt like a balloon about to pop. That's the kind of shit I'm paying for.
The dull main character kept getting shoved to the side by the duller characters around her and I never ended up empathizing with her or anyone else very much beyond her introductory scene. Made it hard to connect with the rest of the movie. She felt unmotivated and aimless. No range. I connected more with Shaw than I did Daniels, even during Covenant. The flayed body on the table that sent the distress signal encouraged more empathy than Dani.
Poor setups resulted in payoffs that didn't land. I didn't feel the tension I was supposed to in that rushed last half hour which left me feeling unsatisfied. Bungle the landing and the whole plane is fucked. I saw an alien doing shit but it had about as much emotional impact as a fight scene in transformers. I didn't feel relieved when either xeno died. It was just over.
A mixed bag overall. I have to say I liked Prometheus better overall for the simple reasons that it got me more emotionally invested and built tension more effectively. This one may have been more eloquent at times, but it had less to say, too. C+ maybe? Not bad but not great, either.
At the very least, I continue to be interested in where the story goes in the future.
The introductory portion of the movie was really good. For the first 15 minutes I was really on board.
Later, I basically loved anything to do with David getting weird. All that stuff was super interesting. I wish the movie spent more time down in that strange corner of the story, but instead it was more of a pit stop in between duller moments. The movie would have been a lot more fun if that was a larger portion of it.
There were a couple moments of legitimate tension I enjoyed. The first being the medbay scene with the back breaker. More notably, the scene of the neomorph eating that chick and David having a quiet interaction with it. That was the moment of highest tension for me. Shit was way creepy. Felt like a balloon about to pop. That's the kind of shit I'm paying for.
The dull main character kept getting shoved to the side by the duller characters around her and I never ended up empathizing with her or anyone else very much beyond her introductory scene. Made it hard to connect with the rest of the movie. She felt unmotivated and aimless. No range. I connected more with Shaw than I did Daniels, even during Covenant. The flayed body on the table that sent the distress signal encouraged more empathy than Dani.
Poor setups resulted in payoffs that didn't land. I didn't feel the tension I was supposed to in that rushed last half hour which left me feeling unsatisfied. Bungle the landing and the whole plane is fucked. I saw an alien doing shit but it had about as much emotional impact as a fight scene in transformers. I didn't feel relieved when either xeno died. It was just over.
A mixed bag overall. I have to say I liked Prometheus better overall for the simple reasons that it got me more emotionally invested and built tension more effectively. This one may have been more eloquent at times, but it had less to say, too. C+ maybe? Not bad but not great, either.
At the very least, I continue to be interested in where the story goes in the future.
Finally saw this last night.
Well. This tried to be a better Prometheus and a solid Alien film and ended up I thought as a bland film with a handful of flaws.
Overall, there was at least less stupidity and out of character behavior than Prometheus. But that ended up in things just being cliche and predictable. As an Alien film, I continue to dislike both the ongoing erosion of mystery in general, and the unsatisfying explanations and foundation being put in its place.
In terms of things that stood out as odd or disappointing enough to tarnish my enjoyment, stepping out onto the planet with no suits struck me as odd given they hadn't established in even a token way that the planet even had a breathable atmosphere (not to mention the complete lack of caution itself). The powerful, space faring creators seemingly being completely wiped out by a surprise attack on a single city square completely diminished any sense of grandeur or power that had been built up before. The captain's chestburster not being the"traditional" chestburster but just literally a miniature final alien form seemed at odds with the attempt to link David's creations to the original film. The Walter switcheroo was so obvious I was wondering whether the reveal was going to be that he was actually just Walter. And where the film ended up just didn't seem to lay the groundwork for the original Alien at all.
Disappointing film that doesn't accomplish or execute on anything well except some decent action and gore.
Well. This tried to be a better Prometheus and a solid Alien film and ended up I thought as a bland film with a handful of flaws.
Overall, there was at least less stupidity and out of character behavior than Prometheus. But that ended up in things just being cliche and predictable. As an Alien film, I continue to dislike both the ongoing erosion of mystery in general, and the unsatisfying explanations and foundation being put in its place.
In terms of things that stood out as odd or disappointing enough to tarnish my enjoyment, stepping out onto the planet with no suits struck me as odd given they hadn't established in even a token way that the planet even had a breathable atmosphere (not to mention the complete lack of caution itself). The powerful, space faring creators seemingly being completely wiped out by a surprise attack on a single city square completely diminished any sense of grandeur or power that had been built up before. The captain's chestburster not being the"traditional" chestburster but just literally a miniature final alien form seemed at odds with the attempt to link David's creations to the original film. The Walter switcheroo was so obvious I was wondering whether the reveal was going to be that he was actually just Walter. And where the film ended up just didn't seem to lay the groundwork for the original Alien at all.
Disappointing film that doesn't accomplish or execute on anything well except some decent action and gore.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I'd say Alien 1,2,3, and as much as I hate to say it even Resurrection all have a crew that makes mistakes but they also have members who are competent.
Tennessee was that guy in Covenant. But he was the only one. Daniels comes close but her failure to identify David despite getting up close and personal to him disqualifies her in my eyes.
Just watched the movie, I enjoyed it. But I agree with everything this link mentions, all very valid questions.
My only real complaint though, is I just wish the Alien wasn't 100% CG, I miss the practical effects of 1 and 2. Movie was fun though.
Elitist1945
Member
So like...David killed Shaw, right?
Did you actually see it take the head off? Just watched this last night and you see it bite into the the left of her neck and then it cuts away - you see the head removed, floating in the water a little later.
UK here.
Alien and Aliens nobody does anything particularly out and out dumb and all questionable actions are heavily reinforced by character development.
For example in Alien it's established Kane is the eager one thus it's no surprise he peeks in the egg and the direction shows he's nervous but when nothing initially happens can't resist a peek and Brett's slavishly devotion to Parker is established such that when Parker is angry with him and straight up orders him to go get the cat he does so even though this means splitting up from others. Again the direction shows he's not that far from them though and he's clearly sensibly nervous while being unable to lose face in front of Parker by backing down.
Likewise in Aliens Cameron does a good job making all mistakes sensible and believable. Main offender being Gorman during first encounter but he's clearly shown to be inexperienced and inept and it's a character beat for him (and Ripley at same time) that he panics while she keeps her cool and acts decisively to save the others.
Even Alien 3 for the most part has characters behaving according to character and situation.
Prometheus and Covenant simply do not. Partly because they have too much going on and too many characters for their run time meaning they don't establish characters well enough to justify their actions, partly because they rely on familiarity (she's panicking so I guess she's someone who panics) which is lazy way of doing it and partly because at times characters just do dumb stuff with no real explanation or attempt to justify it. They just flat out do fine thing dumb because the plot demands it and Scott and the creative team aren't willing to take time/effort to work out better way to justify it.
Not to mention the Prometheus and Covenant crews are trained scientists and pioneers who are expecting the unexpected. The crew in Alien are just space truckers who stumble into trouble.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Wait, so why is there a xeno queen on that mural in Prometheus?
SMG
Member
The David parts were really interesting and it was nicely set up for him to make a 'perfect' live form.
The Alien itself though... I was handled so bad in here. In contrast to the almost elegant Alien in Alien 1, this is more of a Wrestler. It can't move through a Space without something exploding around it. Always screaming and moving in head on.
Absolutely not the Alien that I know from 1 and 3.
The crew was not as stupid as the Prometheus one, but they were pretty stupid. Why would Tanasse bring the Covenant even further down if he could already talk to the people on the ground and put the whole ship in danger? It was just more Drama for Drama's sake not because it makes sense for the characters.
No one on the crew was able to put the mission over the fate of one or two people.
Why would they even go down through the storm and not sit it out for a few days in the first place?
The captain was incredible stupid. After seeing the experiments that David did and being told that there is only one ingredient missing... He still is so unbelievably naive in his actions.
This movie could have used better writers. It looks really good, it has nice themes and one good character in David. But the rest of the characters are really badly written and the Alien part is surprisingly bad too.
It has a nice core, but everything build around it is misplaced or outright bad.
The Alien itself though... I was handled so bad in here. In contrast to the almost elegant Alien in Alien 1, this is more of a Wrestler. It can't move through a Space without something exploding around it. Always screaming and moving in head on.
Absolutely not the Alien that I know from 1 and 3.
The crew was not as stupid as the Prometheus one, but they were pretty stupid. Why would Tanasse bring the Covenant even further down if he could already talk to the people on the ground and put the whole ship in danger? It was just more Drama for Drama's sake not because it makes sense for the characters.
No one on the crew was able to put the mission over the fate of one or two people.
Why would they even go down through the storm and not sit it out for a few days in the first place?
The captain was incredible stupid. After seeing the experiments that David did and being told that there is only one ingredient missing... He still is so unbelievably naive in his actions.
This movie could have used better writers. It looks really good, it has nice themes and one good character in David. But the rest of the characters are really badly written and the Alien part is surprisingly bad too.
It has a nice core, but everything build around it is misplaced or outright bad.
There isn't. What is shown in that mural is a Deacon.
Mister Wolf
Member
I keep hearing that but how do we know that's true? That black goo would probably mutate any living lifeform into producing some variation of an "morph".
All is see is a morph like creature like all the rest. What leads you to believe its the Deacon variation?
Herr Schwarz
Banned
I feel like maybe, the way he's delivering the movies, the next one being what a prequel to the sequel of Prometheus...
I sometimes wonder whether what he's trying to do would be better served as a series on television, an expensive one sure. But better served.
I sometimes wonder whether what he's trying to do would be better served as a series on television, an expensive one sure. But better served.
I keep hearing that but how do we know that's true? That black goo would probably mutate any living lifeform into producing some variation of an "morph".
All is see is a morph like creature like all the rest. What leads you to believe its the Deacon variation?
I mean, we don't know for sure, yeah. But of the most well know beasts, the Deacon is the most suited candidate because it comes from an engineer. It has to be either that, or a new different beast as you say.
It's surely not a Queen cause Queens are way different.
lol this is an image from the story of Paradise Lost written by John Milton in the 17th century... look familiar?
You imply it parallels this, right?:
Finally saw this. Its main problem isn't that it tries to create an Aliens Cinematic Universe and falls flat on its face. It's not that it has bad CGI. It's not that it's predictable and stupid and trying poorly to be pretentious and is cliched. It's not that it's a completely unnecessary movie. Those all apply. But the main problem is that it's just straight up boring. I can't remember a movie that I was less invested in, full of such paper-thin characters whose deaths are as unremarkable as their stupid lives. Every big moment the movie tries to do, it squanders. Barely any set pieces are in the movie. I hate Prometheus with a passion, but it was more watchable than this. I can't even bring myself to hate this nothing of a movie.
Prometheus has this problem but Covenant doesn't. The guys who do most of the fucking up are members of the security team who, come on, are security team members. Also, this is a colonization mission, not a mission where WY selects the best of the best and then those "best" bring a joint on a mission and get lost despite being a cartographer.
The mistakes made by the characters in Covenant are much more reasonable bc these characters are less competent. Some are these people are scientists but most are just military crew. Alien is even more everyman, but these guys are just as incompetent as the crew in Aliens.
Also, the deaths in this movie are the best since Alien. The shower scene was an immediate classic.
People need to stop saying "Xenomorph", because that's a Cameron term. This is not Cameron's Aliens. This is Ridley's Alien, and I think he's actually using this as a backdrop to tell another Replicant story instead... what, he couldn't get his hands on the Bladerunner IP instead? This David/Lucifer parallel would have made for a FANTASTIC BladeRunner/Replicant story instead, IMO.
Fox thought we wanted more of Ridley's Alien, but what a lot of people really wanted is more of Cameron's Aliens. Maybe in 10-15 years they will give us just that.
HAHAHA I love when people point out obvious things like that that get past me.
Fox thought we wanted more of Ridley's Alien, but what a lot of people really wanted is more of Cameron's Aliens. Maybe in 10-15 years they will give us just that.
HAHAHA I love when people point out obvious things like that that get past me.
Given the original title of the movie, this is pretty undeniably their direction and vision for this film.
So did they have any of this in mind at all when they made Prometheus? I don't see it at all... it feels like they completely switched gears between the two movies.
"Prometheus" was more Greek:
Prometheus, meaning "forethought", is a Titan in Greek mythology, best known as the deity in Greek mythology who was the creator of mankind and its greatest benefactor, who stole fire from Mount Olympus and gave it to mankind.
That totally sets the theme for the Engineers creating mankind.
Then we have "Paradise Lost" (why the fuck did they change the title?)
Next we have "Awakening"... seems they have a few options:
Religion:
Awakening (religious movement), a Lutheran movement in Finland
Great Awakening, several periods of Anglo-American Christian revival
Bodhi (awakening), a form of Buddhist spiritual enlightenment
Spiritual awakening, a realization that all there is what is
Awakening (spiritual retreat), a Christian three-day movement program
But it is undeniable that Walter is likely to return as the Hero, so which of the above might fit that narrative?
gustave154
Member
Please tell me we are going to see T and Danny in the sequel.
I want to see the terror in her eyes when she comes out of sleep. Best scene in the movie for me.
Or because it doesn't really make sense as a name for that particular species of creatures anyway.
Alas, that ship has long sailed...
Things looking good for part 3 then!
Darkangel
Member
Saw it the other night and thought it was pretty good. Nothing groundbreaking, but I was entertained. I think it was less memorable than Prometheus, but safer and better put together.
I wish James Cameron would get a shot at another Alien movie. Curious to see what he would come up with at this point.
I wish James Cameron would get a shot at another Alien movie. Curious to see what he would come up with at this point.
first post on neogaf yeah
saw it a few days ago:
pros:
- stunning visuals (landing scene, pov during the storm when landing looks awesome and incredbile believeable, and so on... thats what Ridley really can do best, great visuals)
- very good & unique musical score, the med bay scene has such a tension driving score, love it, also other themes are nice
- good casting, they all fit their roles, even McBride & Franco
-
cons
- the dumb story, they receive a unknown signal which represents a 90s song and jeopardise the whole mission .. can it get even more dumber? YES! they constantly split up to get killed one by one, that´s slasher movie cliché.. one even says "I´m right back, I have to fresh up" and what happens.. dead.... noone asks any questions to David, no one acts believable after the first attack, it does no make ANY sense, seriously the worst I´ve seen in a long time, and even Prometheus makes more sense than this... sad but true
- the xenomorph looks bad,too much cgi and no good cgi...moves to fluid
- the neomoprh sucks and looks weak compared to the giger design, should have left out
- the david plays god idea does not fit the original Alien movies at all
- missing the good prologue Scenes in the final movie
- missing all scenes from the muthur Trailer (looks like a total different movie)
- the horrible dropship fight scene, what the fuck was that? feels totally out of place
- the even more horrible loading bay scene...when she knocks the metal and the Alien look over to her and starts jumping/screaming into the camera, thats simply not an Alien movie...its something Michael bay is known for... then the final "fight" is so weak with all the debris in space, damn it.. it was awful
my theory about the queen was this:
human gets oraly infected by david by the goo -> infected human has sex and infects other human and infectections evolves-> evolved infectection gets extratcted -> extracted Monster infects engineer -> queen gets born
I thought, that is such a rare infection chain and would make sense. Even the deacon looked more queen like than a xenomorph.
In a sequel, the engineers would come back to the planet, leave with the queen on board and crash on lv-426, bceause they got killed by the chestburster (dead spacejockey) and the queen places all the eggs. There Alien 1 would beginn ...
but Alien covenant destroys this theory by adding the religious stuff to it...
I watched over 30 interviews with ridley scott. He is such an asshole in those interviews and the interviewers have no balls asking about the plot holes. Ridley says, after Prometheus they checked the social media and they all missed the xenomorphs and so he gave them xenomorphs...
saw it a few days ago:
pros:
- stunning visuals (landing scene, pov during the storm when landing looks awesome and incredbile believeable, and so on... thats what Ridley really can do best, great visuals)
- very good & unique musical score, the med bay scene has such a tension driving score, love it, also other themes are nice
- good casting, they all fit their roles, even McBride & Franco
-
cons
- the dumb story, they receive a unknown signal which represents a 90s song and jeopardise the whole mission .. can it get even more dumber? YES! they constantly split up to get killed one by one, that´s slasher movie cliché.. one even says "I´m right back, I have to fresh up" and what happens.. dead.... noone asks any questions to David, no one acts believable after the first attack, it does no make ANY sense, seriously the worst I´ve seen in a long time, and even Prometheus makes more sense than this... sad but true
- the xenomorph looks bad,too much cgi and no good cgi...moves to fluid
- the neomoprh sucks and looks weak compared to the giger design, should have left out
- the david plays god idea does not fit the original Alien movies at all
- missing the good prologue Scenes in the final movie
- missing all scenes from the muthur Trailer (looks like a total different movie)
- the horrible dropship fight scene, what the fuck was that? feels totally out of place
- the even more horrible loading bay scene...when she knocks the metal and the Alien look over to her and starts jumping/screaming into the camera, thats simply not an Alien movie...its something Michael bay is known for... then the final "fight" is so weak with all the debris in space, damn it.. it was awful
my theory about the queen was this:
human gets oraly infected by david by the goo -> infected human has sex and infects other human and infectections evolves-> evolved infectection gets extratcted -> extracted Monster infects engineer -> queen gets born
I thought, that is such a rare infection chain and would make sense. Even the deacon looked more queen like than a xenomorph.
In a sequel, the engineers would come back to the planet, leave with the queen on board and crash on lv-426, bceause they got killed by the chestburster (dead spacejockey) and the queen places all the eggs. There Alien 1 would beginn ...
but Alien covenant destroys this theory by adding the religious stuff to it...
I watched over 30 interviews with ridley scott. He is such an asshole in those interviews and the interviewers have no balls asking about the plot holes. Ridley says, after Prometheus they checked the social media and they all missed the xenomorphs and so he gave them xenomorphs...