I'd like to know this too
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
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I'd like to know this too
Ultra Numb
Member
It's probably similar to Goten and Trunks where in this case she picks up things very easily.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Can't say it's markedly different when Cabba learned how to go SSJ via Vegeta bringing it out of him via anger
Ocarina_117
Banned
I just want to see more of Universe 6' saiyans. Most interesting part of the show alongside bringing back Android 17. Bringing back Frieza is stupid, the fact they'd take him over Trunks/Goten/Gotenks is annoying.
Also interested as to how Vegeta would react to the notion of another saiyan planet being, potentially, erased from existence.
Also interested as to how Vegeta would react to the notion of another saiyan planet being, potentially, erased from existence.
I'd be surprised if anyone didn't notice (not counting people that don't know anything about Broly, of course).
As I said, Vados spelled it out, but like the fanbase, the Gods of Destruction are like "screw that guy, he's unforgivable".
And as the Grand Priest said, Zen'o often talked about there were too many universes. So unlike the tournament, he didn't forget despite popular belief. Those eight universes were screwed and they didn't even know it. But hey, we need to keep "Goku is a selfish asshole" mentality going, so screw what the characters in the show says.
You mean when the afterlife is wiped out and people are erased from existence? Yeah, I am sure they will take comfort that they got to exist for a couple hundred more years.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Oh, are they? I thought the round-up was just a representation of dimensions, so to say. If they are yes, then it's probably dumb.
Icyflamez96
Member
No, Goku is definitely an asshole. It doesn't matter if his selfish actions by chance led to a situation where the universes had an opportunuty to fight for their survival. He still ignored Beerus and Whis's warning of risk. His intentions were entirely reckless/risky to him and other's, and he did it anyway to satisfy his own desire. His intentions weren't to" give universes a chance to survive". He's just lucky things turned out the way it did, but it doesn't change the fact that it was still assholish behavior.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
(n‿n) Bomberman face Goku is when the brain damage is affecting him. Every. Single. Time.
He did well to spend all of DB and DBZ without it majorly affecting him, but in Super its clear he's no longer all there.
He did well to spend all of DB and DBZ without it majorly affecting him, but in Super its clear he's no longer all there.
A thousand years means maybe U11 and whoever's right beneath them, for example, cross the 7 point mortal level threshold
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Firmly in the camps ssjrage, spirit sword and cauli super prodigy are awesome and make complete sense.
Goku only helped give the universes an extra chance of living, but that wasn't his intention at all
it was just good luck that his reminding Zeno(s) of the tournament got to save one of those universes; yes, Goku potentially gave a chance to one of the eight universes, but he was still a selfish asshole
it was just good luck that his reminding Zeno(s) of the tournament got to save one of those universes; yes, Goku potentially gave a chance to one of the eight universes, but he was still a selfish asshole
I'm in the camp that it doesn't and could have easily been but its dragon ball and awesome
His intention was also not to put the universes in danger, but since no one gave a shit about Goku's intentions back then, I certainly don't want to hear it now. Fact is, Goku's selfish intention saved an universe. Just like his selfless in keeping Piccolo alive paid off.
Read the above.
The same with Vegeta SSBulma boost could be a rage thing in Super
Otaku Coder
Neo Member
To be fair, killing Piccolo would have meant killing Kami and losing the Dragon Balls. Goku was fully aware of this and against it, even though Kami himself (at least in the dub I watched) didn't seem to mind too much as long as it meant getting rid of Piccolo.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Cauli is a better opportunity to bring the form back imo.
He was told not to do it by Beerus because Zeno is dangerous and Goku had seen it himself. His intentions may not to have been to put the universes in danger, but he expressly didn't give a shot that he might.
Also, again, if Zeno hadn't decided to do it 45 hours or so after Goku contacted him, maybe he would have put it off for a few thousand years (since he'd been doing that already) and more universes could cross that 7 point threshold.
Fulminator
Member
Sorry I don't buy that Goku asking for this tournament is him being a selfish asshole
First of all the tournament was Zeno's idea in the first place, it was going to happen regardless of whether or not Goku went to ask when it was going on. Goku just happens to love to fight , so he got excited
Second, there was absolutely no possible way for Goku to know the true intentions behind the tourney. Sure, Beerus and whis warned him about Zeno, but even they didn't say anything like this was a possibility.
So I don't think Goku is a selfish asshole for asking for the tournament to happen
Maybe a bit selfish, but not an asshole
First of all the tournament was Zeno's idea in the first place, it was going to happen regardless of whether or not Goku went to ask when it was going on. Goku just happens to love to fight , so he got excited
Second, there was absolutely no possible way for Goku to know the true intentions behind the tourney. Sure, Beerus and whis warned him about Zeno, but even they didn't say anything like this was a possibility.
So I don't think Goku is a selfish asshole for asking for the tournament to happen
Maybe a bit selfish, but not an asshole
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Pretty much.
Man, fuck Frieza's bitch ass. It's bullshit, I don't care if he is strong the dude is a fucking asshole and golden form looks ugly too. I'd rather have yamacha, he'd be far more interesting to have on the team, get all the strong humans on the squad. Whats with this hard on toriyama has for frieza anyway? stop trying to redeem villains, some people are just plain assholes.
It is literally authorial intent that Goku was being a selfish asshole. You have to contort yourself into logical knots to somehow come to the decision that Goku deciding to go bother a deity he'd just seen first hand casually wipeout a universe because he's bored, and to do so against the warning of another deity and an angel because they expect catastrophic results, isn't being a selfish asshole.
He was told it could be dangerous and Goku just wanted a tourument Zen'o promised. Not the Hunger Games. And if he had listened, U7 would have been toast.
Sounds good in theory, except Beerus and the others didn't even know their mortal level was low. So how can they change something they didn't know about? Given what we have seen, do you expect U7 it U9 to have their act together in a thousand or so years?
Selfish maybe. But he wasn't an asshole since he never wanted universes nuked.
And he didn't nuke the future timeline because he was bored. He did it because Goku told him to kill Zamasu.
Mister Wolf
Member
All you have to look at is the way Zeno is characterized on the show to realize that it deciding to wipe out universes is linked to Goku asking for this tournament. I'm not saying it wasnt discussed before. Zeno discussed holding a tournament just to fucking forget not long after. Zeno is basically a toddler. The universe plan was so important that the weakest universe was almost able to get out of being destroyed just for winning a exhibition match but ok Zeno isn't making decisions on the fly saying shit like he wants the tournament to hurry up and start being coddled like a child by Grand Priest and reminded he has to wait.
NeonZ
Member
It felt like Gohan was blamed for knowing about the truth and hiding it (they even seem surprised that Goku lied about it), but he was the one that convinced Goku to hide the truth in the first place.
angelic
Banned
Zeno still wanted fewer universes, hitting 7 makes no difference, thats just the line he drew. If everyones level was higher (in 1000 years, say), he'd choose a different cut off point to remove some of them.
Goku is the catalyst of everything good in the show, in fact it's literally about his life. He's the hero, everyone else in it is there in relation to him.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I dunno about that, a common thread throughout DB is goku being pure hearted.
It seems pretty clear zen'o hasn't met someone like goku before and is pretty much the first friend he's ever had.
He doesn't see it as "bothering a deity", but more like "it's ok, he's my friend! (n‿n)".
Basically ignoring characters' statement. Goku did the universes a favor since he gave them s chance to survive. It wasn't his intention, but neither was him getting the multiverse destroyed. Since the fan base don't care what Goku's intentions were, you have to accept that Goku's selfishness was an overall good thing.
If you are told something COULD be dangerous to other people, have witnessed directly exactly how dangerous that thing can be, and are told not to mess with it, if you decide to mess with it just because you're bored that makes you both selfish and an asshole.
Would U7 or U9 get their shit together? Hell no. 11? Definitely. 2, 3, 10? Quite possibly.
Zen'o did Goku a favor by destroying the future timeline. So Goku has no reason to think from his personal experience that Zen'o would destroy universes over a tourument. So Goku was reckless and selfish. Not an asshole since he met no ill intention. Since intentions doesn't matter, Goku did the right thing ignoring Beerus and Whis.
You have no real proof that 11 would get their shit together. The same with the other universes since they had no clue what their mortal ranking was.
Mister Wolf
Member
The situation was so serious it had Beerus threatening to destroy him. The asshole does it anyway with Grand Priest showing up saying the tournament will feature universal destruction but no its just one big fucking coincidence haha.
Mister Wolf
Member
You're acting like the angels are incapable of dishonesty. As I said I'm not saying it wasn't discussed. The reason why its happening now involving this tournament is because of Goku.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Y'all are ignoring character statements and creating narratives that aren't there like you're watching inception instead of DB.
there's a huuuuuge difference between sparing someone's life -which Goku has always tried to do when possible- and going to poke at the crazy childish god that destroys universes on a whim
you really cannot equate the two
When have the angels shown to be dishonest in this type of situation?
He didn't poke Zen'o. He reminded him of a tourument he promise. You're acting like he challenged Zen'o to a sparring match.
And he spared the Dragon Ball version of Satan and genocidal space pirate. Yet, you want me to buy Goku was being more selfish than usual with Zen'o.
Character statements including Beerus and Zeno telling Goku not to do it because Zeno is dangerous and Goku doing it anyways.
And authorial statements about Goku's motivations and his dangerous self-centeredness, you mean?
Hey guys looks like that super awesome toei wrestling anime called tiger mask w is ending soon (can't believe so many people are Missing out on that)
Which means it's going to free up most of toei biggest animator no joke that show has like 50% of toei animators.
Big animators up for grabs are
Ryo onishi
Kenji kuroyanagi
Takeshi nishino
Kodai watanbe
Noboru kozumi
Esaku enoue
Takumi yamamoto
Akihiro ota
Sachi suzuki
Junichi hayama
Which means it's going to free up most of toei biggest animator no joke that show has like 50% of toei animators.
Big animators up for grabs are
Ryo onishi
Kenji kuroyanagi
Takeshi nishino
Kodai watanbe
Noboru kozumi
Esaku enoue
Takumi yamamoto
Akihiro ota
Sachi suzuki
Junichi hayama
You mean Whis and it still turned out for the best. So if Goku's intentions doesn't matter, Goku did a good thing. And the only person call Goku is motivations and his dangerous self-centeredness is Beerus ironically enough.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
That's cherry picking but ok.
No the statements of the angels.
Nobody has ignored what beerus has said to goku about zen'o, in fact that is just a vehicle to once again display goku's pure heartedness.
Are y'all forgetting that goku was being very polite (in goku standards) to zen'o the first few times? This is literally because of what the others told him about zen'o.
But as time goes on, goku's pure hearted nature wins out and makes a friend of this "terrifying universe destroyer", this is the purpose of those scenes, not goku being an "asshole", because that's not even slightly in his intentions.
Goku has had this effect on nearly everyone.
goku was def an asshole
yeah, Goku is nice to everyone by default, but he still was summoned to Zeno's chambers and Goku just plain old lied to Zeno's face about having a better friend to play with Zeno. just by random luck a suitable friend appeared, who turned out to be ... another Zeno, but that doesn't remove the fact that Goku endangered everyone just because he lied to Zeno (not sure what's going on with Goku's new lying tendencies)
I get it, Dragon Ball is a giant tale of Goku proving that niceness wins out in the end and can redeem people and everyone is friend-able, but you still have to admit that Goku is super reckless at times just cause he is being selfish. sometimes he lucks out and the universe is saved, and some other times he just didn't outright kill Black as SSB the first time they meet and this led to FTrunks universe being completely obliterated, just cause Goku wanted to test out Black's strength or whatever
yeah, Goku is nice to everyone by default, but he still was summoned to Zeno's chambers and Goku just plain old lied to Zeno's face about having a better friend to play with Zeno. just by random luck a suitable friend appeared, who turned out to be ... another Zeno, but that doesn't remove the fact that Goku endangered everyone just because he lied to Zeno (not sure what's going on with Goku's new lying tendencies)
I get it, Dragon Ball is a giant tale of Goku proving that niceness wins out in the end and can redeem people and everyone is friend-able, but you still have to admit that Goku is super reckless at times just cause he is being selfish. sometimes he lucks out and the universe is saved, and some other times he just didn't outright kill Black as SSB the first time they meet and this led to FTrunks universe being completely obliterated, just cause Goku wanted to test out Black's strength or whatever
Mister Wolf
Member
I will put it like this. If no universes get destroyed at the end of this then the statement of too many universes was dishonest bullshit. If you don't want to say it was a lie and they just changed their mind then that furthers my point of Zeno making dangerous childlike decisions on a whim and Goku bringing up the tournament against Whis and Beerus warning played a part in endangering the multiverse. You already saw the changing its mind on a whim for deciding to spare the weakest universe if their leader could beat Goku in a match. Lets just see what happens at the end of all this.
I wish he would I think goku is overdue for a good honest beating, beerus has been way too lax with him.
You're the one saying his intentions don't matter. His intentions were to cure his boredom by going to a god that he has been warned is dangerous and asking for a tournament. It is selfish because he's doing it for self-centered reasons. It is assholish because he's knowingly risking putting other people in danger. Yes, he thinks he can avoid that, but if someone opens a bull pen because they want to ride it and think they've got a report with the bull and then it goes and gores 8 people, you don't then go and say "well he didn't mean for the bull to gore those people and it would have gored the nine people who were thinking of climbing into the pen at some unspecified point in the future otherwise."
Goku will be the last man standing.
His wish will be fighting the Great Priest lol. That's how much of a madman he is.
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