The Silver
Member
focus the poachers on your back inside Whis's staff
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
- Thread starter ArchedThunder
- Start date
- Status
focus the poachers on your back inside Whis's staff
This isn't out of realm for what we've seen this season.
Until the tournament ends and I'm factually wrong, I will argue that the tournament will be pretty long, and Zeno will drop the time limit rule, and no killing rule, until the last one is standing.
Which might hurt a universe like 3 who is more focused on making it through the time limit.
Which might hurt a universe like 3 who is more focused on making it through the time limit.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
They are points worth discussing, but they aren't points that confirm goku did or did not save a universe.
I'm not saying you made this argument, but people have been arguing that "goku might've saved anywhere from 1 to negative 7 universes", based on this "extended timescale" argument.
Well, maybe? But that doesn't disprove, as it stands now, confirmed by vados, that goku did in fact save a universe.
Icyflamez96
Member
What is fact though is Goku ruined any chance that these universes had at improving.
Vados didn't bring any extra insight that we couldn't already draw from previous events. It's still possible that more universes could have hit that cutoff point and have been exempt from that danger. Not only that but I think generations and generations of life existing across 8/9 universes means something too.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Yes it is.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Yes you can assume either way, but let's not.
I'm just going by the facts presented, which are the erasure was inevitable, and goku has saved a universe.
Icyflamez96
Member
The thing is, to come to the conclusion that Goku had a net save of 1 universe, you would have to assume that there wouldn't have been opportunity for more universes to pass the threshold if Goku hadn't intervened.
That would certainly make things more interesting. Not sure about the no killing rule though.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Cell doesn't even exist anymore, he's been reincarnated like all the villains. Frieza is an exception due to his exceptional stubbornness.
there was nothing saying the destruction of the universes was gonna happen in the same timeframe as the actual tournament
on that note, Goku may have helped by bringing the other zeno, by creating a distraction for the other
tho two zenos may end up being an even worse idea in the end
Cell is just evil Goku. prolly had to clean a little the small psychotichness and he was good to go
on that note, Goku may have helped by bringing the other zeno, by creating a distraction for the other
tho two zenos may end up being an even worse idea in the end
Cell is just evil Goku. prolly had to clean a little the small psychotichness and he was good to go
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I low key hope they drop the no killing rule lol
ArchedThunder
Banned
The more evil you are, the faster you reincarnate, for reasons. Cell has likely not been reincarnated yet.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Not necessarily, I'm just going by what vados says and she's aware of the tournament coming in place of an extended timescale. And she still says it
The only way to argue against this, is to conjure up an argument based on nothing that vados is lying.
Icyflamez96
Member
Vados's word doesn't add any more substance to what you could already assume by the circumstances. That was there to show her mindset/stance on the matter. She's not lying about anything, but she too doesn't know how things would have went down if Goku hadn't interfered.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
They were unphased during the announcement though, and seemed to have been keenly aware they weren't going to be erased.
I don't see an argument for keeping the angels out of the loop from the plan to erase universes, especially since the grand priest mentions that zen'o has mentioned it often.
Astral Dog
Member
We had that first part tournament though.they NEED time to properly build this and introduce 7 (?) other unknown universes + U6
There can be an argument for Trunks' timeline being completely different, even Whis explained it himself during that arc, a small action somewhere can affect the future greatly.
I think I'll just skip the next two or three episodes. This tournament arc has sooooooooooo many fillers, this is almost DBZ-level of bad. Esp. yesterdays' episode was just plain boring. Literally nothing happened for straight 20 minutes.
I really hope they make up for this immense stalling.
I really hope they make up for this immense stalling.
Astral Dog
Member
Frieza has destroyed planets. Cell only killed a few thousand/million earthlings
Astral Dog
Member
Lord Frieza is coming don't worry
Reizo Ryuu
Member
How is world building filler? How is anything in the anime filler?
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I think it had more to do with Buu being "pure", as in completely mindless and animal. He was evil but he almost wasn't capable of complex thoughts unlike more intelligent beings and unlike someone like Frieza who could consciously resist the soul cleansing process. So technically we have no idea to determine if Cell has been reincarnated yet but I think it's safe to assume he has... unless Toei wants to reuse him one day.
LordOfChaos
Member
-star wars x mass effect robot universe was cool.
-Trillin was funny
-Whis accelerated a 9 month gestation period for a living baby, why can't they accelerate Buus nap? Not stoked that we're robbed of him fighting seriously again, especially with a new form
-Freiza seems like a huge risk unless the incentives for cooperating are comparably huge, like bringing him back to life, which is a further huge risk. Honestly, Yamcha seems better than that, lol.
-Attaining Super Saiyan, further bastardized, but I'm not hung up on it - seems that universes saiyans were just more powerful and trained in base mode so could attain it faster.
-Trillin was funny
-Whis accelerated a 9 month gestation period for a living baby, why can't they accelerate Buus nap? Not stoked that we're robbed of him fighting seriously again, especially with a new form
-Freiza seems like a huge risk unless the incentives for cooperating are comparably huge, like bringing him back to life, which is a further huge risk. Honestly, Yamcha seems better than that, lol.
-Attaining Super Saiyan, further bastardized, but I'm not hung up on it - seems that universes saiyans were just more powerful and trained in base mode so could attain it faster.
Mister Wolf
Member
Goku asking for a universal tournament is the catalyst for a universal destruction plan created by a toddler minded entity. This entity is so whimsical in its decisions it was gonna spare the weakest most deserving(Zeno's standards) of destruction universe because a fighter could beat Goku for its entertainment. All this happening after the consequences of the tournament were announced.
Pankratous
Member
Wasn't Bulma pretty much ready to pop? Whis just teleported Bulla out.
if you define world building with 5 seconds of relevant content within a 22 minute show, then this arc is utter garbage. Sorry to say it this harsh.
I didn't give a crap about Tien, Roshi or No. 18 or Kurinrin's recruitment. Only No. 17 was somewhat interesting because we haven't seen him since Cell.
I'd much rather have them focus entirely on the other universes. The DBZ-heroes are well known as is. We don't need 20 episodes of nothing for the sake of "world building" because seriously, that's just an excuse to slack.
Maybe once you get the weaklings out like Tien and Yamcha fetish #6.
I think you need to get the weaklings out though, and I think that's the only reason it's in place.
We do because we don't know a lot of these characters that well anymore, especially in terms of their fighting.
Roshi has one weakness that he needs to get over. We see it in 89, which makes 91 and 92 make more sense for his development.
Krillin is no longer a fighter. Not to mention in the android saga he was too scared to fight the androids when Goku was out of commission. He was selfish and didn't want to deactivate 18 when Cell was looking for her. He wanted to leave when they were looking for Babidi after Gohan's energy was stolen. He didn't act against Beerus in BoG. He froze when he encountered Frieza in RoF. We had an episode where bullets were hurting him because he stopped his training. In 76 and 84 his lack of training, and his fears to die which started in Z, was adressed and handled well.
18 could have been handled better, even in this episode the money being a motivation for her is an embarassment for her character, I'll give you that.
This is Super's fault, but with Piccolo and Gohan we've had so much inconsistency with how strong they should be, we needed episodes letting us know just where they were.
Tien could have been handled better, but again we do need to see where he's at.
The only one we didn't need was Buu, but 80% of that episode focused on other universes, so it wasn't like he got a big development episode anyway. But at the time it made sense because Buu has no reason to fight, he's like a child, so to see him excited for a fight, without the promise of food or Satan being threatened, was a big moment for Buu even if it was wasted.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Everyone reincarnates. Whether you're good or bad you're gonna get reincarnated (the only exception is "heroes" who keep their bodies in the afterlife). However Goku's specific request was that Buu be reincarnated on Earth and within Goku's lifespan so that Goku can fight him again. Then Toriyama in an interview said that the reason the afterlife workers managed to reincarnate Buu's soul that fast is because the soul cleansing process is easy to do if the person is "pure evil" like Buu.
Your assumptions are shit. My assumptions are the best.
Was that stated anywhere? I thought people who go to Hell are reincarnated and people who go to Heaven live forever, but I suppose I haven't actually seen any details regarding that.
The explanation given with Buu was the one you said, as far as I know. He was almost pure evil so presumably most of his soul goes in the trash or whatever.
Was that stated anywhere? I thought people who go to Hell are reincarnated and people who go to Heaven live forever, but I suppose I haven't actually seen any details regarding that.
The explanation given with Buu was the one you said, as far as I know. He was almost pure evil so presumably most of his soul goes in the trash or whatever.
ArchedThunder
Banned
RareFantasy64
Member
That would be a major disappointment. I'm very curious to see how this tournament will turn out with so many teams and fighters involved
Icyflamez96
Member
Was that not just because they weren't worried about it since they knew it wouldn't be a big deal for them? They didnt have to know those terms beforehand to be nonchalant about them when they were announced. Weren't you against the whole angel conspiracy theory before anyway?
Either way, that doesn't prove that Vados knew when Zeno would erase the universes if Goku hadnt intervened, which is my point.
Because there's a high chance barely any of that is in Toriyama's outline. They are just making episodes out of thin air. Again, the pacing in this show has always been horrible.
Some parts were rushed for no reason, and now we have dozens of episodes of "character development/world building". If I want dozens of episodes like that I'd watch Santa Barbara or Top Model. In my opinion it's way too much for Dragon Ball and it's getting extremely boring.
At least the art is now consistently good, it was a disaster up until the Trunks episodes.
freeza's terms for agreeing to participate is that they stop trying to cash in on him
"But we promised Yamcha"
freeza's terms will be that they redo GT but with kid freeza instead of goku
That premise alone would make it better than actual GT.
Frieza already fucked over Yamcha in Super. Now it's time to fuck him over in other ways.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
...The angel conspiracy of them all lying to everyone about the universe erasure happening regardless of the tournament.
Them being aware of not being erased is not a conspiracy lol.
How does vados literally saying, that goku suggesting the tournament is the reason why they haven't been erased yet not proof?
This can only be true if you accept that vados is lying.
Icyflamez96
Member
You're on to something here.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
You've "addressed" it with an assumption. It's not based on facts.
The only fact here is her saying that they would've been erased already.
This could end with him getting erased by Beerus/ Zeno. After that, there's really no way to bring him back, unless a Frieza from another timeline wished for immortality/ has a time ring on.
- Status