Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.

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Don't forget how Master Roshi, who became irrelevant like 10+ years ago, apparently watched some hot yoga videos and did some push ups and is sorta relevant now.

It did feel like Dragon Ball/Z had less focus on training as the series went on, mostly just having character improvement happen off screen. Trunks and Vegeta just sparred a lot in the RoSaT and got stronger. We got some lip service with Goku and Gohan with the whole "getting used to staying SSJ" bit. The Buu Saga kinda didn't have any training at all? Unless you want to count Goten and Trunks learning the fusion dance.

Super has thrown all that shit out the window. "Training" is now just something a character says they did and now they're stronger. Early in the series, Goku went to King Kai's planet to... drag some weights around? King Kai's 10x gravity planet, when Goku has been working out in 100x gravity since before he went SSJ. Or Goku wanting to train with Krillin to stay in shape, although at this point that would be like a pro MMA fighter wanting to spar with me.

At least the Super manga put in some effort in trying to give characters learned techniques from training, not just "he worked out off screen and now he's way stronger, trust me you guys."

Maybe it is just the series showing its age. The genre has come a long way in training and technique and fight variety.
 
Parshias7 said:
Don't forget how Master Roshi, who became irrelevant like 10+ years ago, apparently watched some hot yoga videos and did some push ups and is sorta relevant now.

It did feel like Dragon Ball/Z had less focus on training as the series went on, mostly just having character improvement happen off screen. Trunks and Vegeta just sparred a lot in the RoSaT and got stronger. We got some lip service with Goku and Gohan with the whole "getting used to staying SSJ" bit. The Buu Saga kinda didn't have any training at all? Unless you want to count Goten and Trunks learning the fusion dance.

Super has thrown all that shit out the window. "Training" is now just something a character says they did and now they're stronger. Early in the series, Goku went to King Kai's planet to... drag some weights around? King Kai's 10x gravity planet, when Goku has been working out in 100x gravity since before he went SSJ. Or Goku wanting to train with Krillin to stay in shape, although at this point that would be like a pro MMA fighter wanting to spar with me.

At least the Super manga put in some effort in trying to give characters learned techniques from training, not just "he worked out off screen and now he's way stronger, trust me you guys."

Maybe it is just the series showing its age. The genre has come a long way in training and technique and fight variety.
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We actually don't know where Roshi stand and even then, Roshi always had powerful and tricky techniques. In Super, he beat up second-rate fodder than Frieza called trash so he wasn't exactly dealing with Frieza's mooks from the Namek Saga. Also, since this is a tournament with no deaths, you can do stuff that wouldn't work in a life-and-death battle. Like, do you really think Krillin could have beating Gohan even with all his tricks if there wasn't a ring-out rule? The same with Goku vs. Skinny Buu.

The most training we saw in Z was for the Saiyans and that was actually fairly short. It was the anime that made the prep up for the Saiyans its own event while in the manga only Gohan got any real focused.

Goku got as powerful as he did in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber that only has 10x gravity. Gravity training in general hasn't given a character a major boost since the Namek and the start of the Android Saga. Otherwise, Vegeta should be wasting Goku since he regularly trains in 150x gravity.

The Super manga had only one panel of Trunks training with Vegeta in the gravity room. That is literally it unless you count Goku learning the Evil Containment Wave. We didn't even see Vegeta's training for his rematched with Black and even the three years of training he did with Goku for the U6 and U7 tournament was lightly touched on.

One Piece is the most popular manga in Japan and Oda never shows training outside of brief flashbacks since he thinks they're boring. That is how we have had Luffy pulling Gears 2 and 3 out of nowhere.
 
KHlover said:
He was designed to kill pre-Namek Goku though (just a *tiny* bit overkill, eh Gero?), so obviously he can easily train to be on par with post-BOG SSJ2 Goku.

Edit: obviously
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Yeah, I don't get how anyone can complain about 17.
Gero saw the biggest threat as a Saiyan who he might never have to deal with again, Vegeta as a Great Ape. We're going from pre 180,000,to whatever Frieza's 100% form was, and we know his second form is at 1 Million. The idea that Gero overshot that much, to the point where they're one shotting SSJ's, anyone who defends 17 in DBZ is ignoring Dragon Ball, where the androids were at in that series. Them making a jump from Android 8 to 17 is laughable, and makes no sense. Gero had no clue about SSJ, the androids had no clue about SSJ, they didn't account for anywhere near that type of power, so they created androids that strong, why?

It was enjoyable though, just like 17 being on par with Goku is enjoyable now. It should make 0 sense that 17 and Piccolo were on par in Z, at least now we know he can get stronger, and has a drive to get stronger with his family.
 
Skeeter49 said:
Yeah, I don't get how anyone can complain about 17.
Gero saw the biggest threat as a Saiyan who he might never have to deal with again, Vegeta as a Great Ape. We're going from pre 180,000,to whatever Frieza's 100% form was, and we know his second form is at 1 Million. The idea that Gero overshot that much, to the point where they're one shotting SSJ's, anyone who defends 17 in DBZ is ignoring Dragon Ball, where the androids were at in that series. Them making a jump from Android 8 to 17 is laughable, and makes no sense. Gero had no clue about SSJ, the androids had no clue about SSJ, they didn't account for anywhere near that type of power, so they created androids that strong, why?

It was enjoyable though, just like 17 being on par with Goku is enjoyable now. It should make 0 sense that 17 and Piccolo were on par in Z, at least now we know he can get stronger, and has a drive to get stronger with his family.
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I dont understand why science improving at the same rate of martial arts is laughable.
I never took it as Gero made them that strong. I took it as Gero set out to make the strongest warrior he could and thats how strong it ended up.
 
Romars202129 said:
I dont understand why science improving at the same rate of martial arts is laughable.
I never took it as Gero made them that strong. I took it as Gero set out to make the strongest warrior he could and thats how strong it ended up.
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Gero had no idea of the levels seen on Namek and the greatest power he has seen was Great Ape Vegeta. Him somehow overshooting to the point of making the former strongest in the universe look like fodder and can fight equally with a Super Namekian who was praised as being Frieza's superior and who also fused wit another Namekian before then, is laughable.

The martial arts improving makes sense since all the characters we have seen had to face these super strong opponent and adapt to fight them or die. Gero just somehow shot past all of that by basically guessing.
 
Romars202129 said:
I dont understand why science improving at the same rate of martial arts is laughable.
I never took it as Gero made them that strong. I took it as Gero set out to make the strongest warrior he could and thats how strong it ended up.
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It just how the original purpose IIRC was to kill Goku and ended up over shooting it and created androids and made himself strong enough to kill Pre-namel goku who he was aiming for by flicking him.
Even so it just kinda funny
 
Gero couldn't have been more powerful than than 1st form Frieza if the highest power level hes seen was 180,000 (Oozaru Vegeta). His calculations were way off.
 
Anyone else think Goku has been acting similar to Cell saga Goku? He knew the whole time Gohan could beat Cell but didnt say anything. He definitely has a trick up his sleeve.
 
The Gero being strong but 17 and 18 being super strong compared to everyone else always struck me as a result of Trunks altering the timeline. Didn't he even say the ones in his time weren't as strong?

I mean, there was already a 3 year gap between when Goku got back and the androids showed up. It wouldn't be impossible for Gero to alter his plans because of this new person showing up, Goku being visibly stronger than Gero knew (don't forget, Goku died before this) would mean Gero has to try new things to make 17 and 18 stronger, including making himself into an Android as well.

The mere fact they're biological androids (prototypes for Cell, in a way) means they should be able to keep growing, especially if they have any DNA from everyone's favorite boys.
 
Late to the party but MAN I loved that Buu/Frieza swerve. Even going so far as having Buu in the intro. I really do hope that they don't try to redeem Frieza at some point with this, dude should stay evil.
 
NandoGip said:
Anyone else think Goku has been acting similar to Cell saga Goku? He knew the whole time Gohan could beat Cell but didnt say anything. He definitely has a trick up his sleeve.
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Then: "Gohan, it's your turn!"
Now: "Universe 7's team leader is you, Gohan!"
 
Also, dumb/easy way to explain everyone's power boosts:

Goku and Vegeta accessing God powers means that said strenght is "leaking" into other characters with ties to them. There, one and done.
 
GhostTrick said:
By the way guys, talking about Gero and the Androids... if Gero never follow them to Namek... how could he use Frieza cells for Cell ?
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The computer was going on autopilot so was still collecting data without Gero knowing which dna is in cell. Plus Frieza landed on earth with Cold
 
HeroR said:
Gero had no idea of the levels seen on Namek and the greatest power he has seen was Great Ape Vegeta. Him somehow overshooting to the point of making the former strongest in the universe look like fodder and can fight equally with a Super Namekian who was praised as being Frieza's superior and who also fused wit another Namekian before then, is laughable.

The martial arts improving makes sense since all the characters we have seen had to face these super strong opponent and adapt to fight them or die. Gero just somehow shot past all of that by basically guessing.
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Not as laughable as the gap between the Grand slam bomb which was the most powerful non-nuclear bomb in WWII and and the A-bomb dropped on Hiroshima. And unlike Little Boy 17 was still just a teenager so he would grow much stronger when he was a fully developed adult he also trained over the course of a decade!

I don't understand what so freaking hard for some folks to understand.
 
Cimarron said:
Not as laughable as the gap between the Grand slam bomb which was the most powerful non-nuclear bomb in WWII and and the A-bomb dropped on Hiroshima. And unlike Little Boy 17 was still just a teenager so he would grow much stronger when he was a fully developed adult he also trained over the course of a decade!

I don't understand what so freaking hard for some folks to understand.
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I had always assumed their strength was static before. So working out making them stronger was kinda surprising.
 
BoogieWoogie said:
Also, dumb/easy way to explain everyone's power boosts:

Goku and Vegeta accessing God powers means that said strenght is "leaking" into other characters with ties to them. There, one and done.
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I thought this was pretty explicitly said in RoF?
"I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God and now I can access it"
or something like that
 
Cimarron said:
Not as laughable as the gap between the Grand slam bomb which was the most powerful non-nuclear bomb in WWII and and the A-bomb dropped on Hiroshima. And unlike Little Boy 17 was still just a teenager so he would grow much stronger when he was a fully developed adult he also trained over the course of a decade!

I don't understand what so freaking hard for some folks to understand.
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Using nuclear bombs is flawed since once we made the first bomb, it was easy to upgrade and blow ourselves up to kingdom come. The superpowers we were fighting didn't physically increased in strength nor did the Earth become stronger. We just build more powerful bombs, because.

The problem that you and others seems to miss isn't that Gero made androids that were stronger than Android 8. It is that he built the androids specifically to kill Goku and the highest power he saw that took out Goku was under 180,000. Since he never followed Goku to Namek, he had no clue about monsters like Frieza or Goku becoming a Super Saiyan that increased his power by 50x. He just took the most extreme model of Goku's growth and guessed, and came out laughably wrong. Yet, he somehow created three androids that smashed everyone and could fight evenly with the Nameless Namekian, a Namekian so gifted that Nail thought Piccolo even as he was in the Frieza Saga could kill Frieza easily.

In other words, in the span of when Goku went to Namek and the arrival of the first androids, he made machines that even at their weakest could crushed Frieza. Which was about four years. So Gero overpowered the androids purely by accident.
 
Hmmm so far it seems like the show is showing it's age, is this just a cash in or is the creator truly passionate about continuing the story, can't tell yet tbh.

Power levels are all over the place and if Goku and Vegeta could destroy planets before, what can they do now? Destroy universes? How much stronger can one get than SSB? It's just getting comical at this point with the power levels, and I wish a base form would get established and then techniques and skills are introduced. I just feel like characters should began focusing on techniques now, only so much powering up you can do at this point and SSB is really boring so far and not unique. Enjoying OP much more than this ATM...nothing even close to Goku going SS for the first time, both Vegeta vs Goku fights, Gohan going SS2, Vegeta crying and Goku killing Frieza., etc...really the only thing I've really appreciated is Vegeta's character development and Goku finally getting into some actual trouble for his dumb personality and being super irresponsible. I mean the Buu arc could have just been avoided if Goku took out far Buu in SS3 form. I dunno, Luffy is the same character type, but Goku is just coming across as annoying and childish, I hope it changes.

Bummed out really, Dragonball is my childhood, this show has to be good.
 
GhostTrick said:
By the way guys, talking about Gero and the Androids... if Gero never follow them to Namek... how could he use Frieza cells for Cell ?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Cell explains that the spy bug lost track of them when they went to Namek but resumed his work when Frieza and Cold arrived on Earth.
 
pqdr3689vl0z.png
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.
 
hikarutilmitt said:
The Gero being strong but 17 and 18 being super strong compared to everyone else always struck me as a result of Trunks altering the timeline. Didn't he even say the ones in his time weren't as strong?

I mean, there was already a 3 year gap between when Goku got back and the androids showed up. It wouldn't be impossible for Gero to alter his plans because of this new person showing up, Goku being visibly stronger than Gero knew (don't forget, Goku died before this) would mean Gero has to try new things to make 17 and 18 stronger, including making himself into an Android as well.

The mere fact they're biological androids (prototypes for Cell, in a way) means they should be able to keep growing, especially if they have any DNA from everyone's favorite boys.
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The future androids were not weaker. Trunks was wrong. He can't feel their power, and they were shown to actively hide their true strength to toy with their victims.

Also Gero had no idea Trunks was a thing, otherwise he would know about super saiyan.



As for 17 being that strong, you're all conveniently forgetting that he made 16 before 17, and he had a bigger initial power. 17's biology granted him infinite energy. Unlike 16, his strength was not set and could grow bigger.

But it also means Gero had found a way to use technology as an incredible source of energy, he probably saw the "ki" battles Vegeta and Goku had and decided to find an alternative. Remember he did design a way to absorb ki and convert it to energy. The infinite engine of 17 was organic and was the pinnacle to his inventions, he designed 17 as the "ultimate warrior". He gave up on him because of his personality.

Earth has shown incredible technological advancements through all of Dragon Ball, so I don't find it impossible that Earth's biggest genius could achieve this.

Cell's power is completely dependent on 17 and 18 so that's not an inconsistency, on the contrary it proves their biology was mandatory.

What's not making a lot of sense is how Piccolo ended up matching 17 "perfectly", that seemed rather convenient. I'm thinking he was probably stronger but 17 held his own better thanks to his stamina/shield/speed.

I feel like Gohan and 17 are a bit similar now.

Gohan had his potential unlocked, which seemingly erased his normal limits, and allowed him to reach god heights in a very short amount of time. 17 already had an unlimited potential, so he didn't need any "ritual" to get the ability to grow that strong.

17 simply never had the chance in the present before being taken out, and had no reason to get stronger in the future since he already was far stronger than everybody else.
 
Omnistalgic said:
Hmmm so far it seems like the show is showing it's age, is this just a cash in or is the creator truly passionate about continuing the story, can't tell yet tbh.

Power levels are all over the place and if Goku and Vegeta could destroy planets before, what can they do now? Destroy universes? How much stronger can one get than SSB? It's just getting comical at this point with the power levels, and I wish a base form would get established and then techniques and skills are introduced. I just feel like characters should began focusing on techniques now, only so much powering up you can do at this point and SSB is really boring so far and not unique. Enjoying OP much more than this ATM...nothing even close to Goku going SS for the first time, both Vegeta vs Goku fights, Gohan going SS2, Vegeta crying and Goku killing Frieza., etc...really the only thing I've really appreciated is Vegeta's character development and Goku finally getting into some actual trouble for his dumb personality and being super irresponsible. I mean the Buu arc could have just been avoided if Goku took out far Buu in SS3 form. I dunno, Luffy is the same character type, but Goku is just coming across as annoying and childish, I hope it changes.

Bummed out really, Dragonball is my childhood, this show has to be good.
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Dragon Ball since its creation has always been a "cash grab", so this is a pointless question to ask.

Yes, Goku and Vegeta can destroy the universe. They don't for the same reason why they haven't destroyed the Earth all through Z, it's called ki control.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a multiplier of a Saiyan's base form like all Super Saiyan forms. It isn't a flat number, so the stronger Goku's base form becomes, the stronger Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan becomes.

Why is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan uniquely boring and not the other Super Saiyan forms that were just power increases too with no extra benefits? Also, Super introduce several techniques and brought back old ones that were used maybe once or twice in Dragon Ball and Z.

Goku going Super Saiyan for the first time is one of the most iconic moments in anime. Seriously, it's nearly impossible to capture that moment again outside of maybe Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. The transformations aren't even meant to be flashy. Goku also never killed Frieza in Z.

The Buu Saga could have been avoided if Vegeta wasn't a bitch and sold his soul. Not to mention him murdering several thousands people. So Goku holds some blame, but Vegeta started it all.
 
What if Ki causes chain reactions and raises the level altogether for everyone in the surrounding area. Trunks did say that A17 and A18 were stronger in this timeline than in his due to not just him arriving, but the Cell from a third time line being dormant for years. 🤔

Kinda like in Hunter x Hunter where Nen can be unlocked by being exposed to Nen bursts from someone else. Would also explain why Super Saiyajin is passed out like hot cakes once someone gets it.

Yes, I know the validity of Trunks' statement is questionable.
 
HeroR said:
Gero had no idea of the levels seen on Namek and the greatest power he has seen was Great Ape Vegeta. Him somehow overshooting to the point of making the former strongest in the universe look like fodder and can fight equally with a Super Namekian who was praised as being Frieza's superior and who also fused wit another Namekian before then, is laughable.

The martial arts improving makes sense since all the characters we have seen had to face these super strong opponent and adapt to fight them or die. Gero just somehow shot past all of that by basically guessing.
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I don't see whats so difficult to accept about this. Gero made them as strong as he possibly could, because he could. He was a mad scientist, pushing science too far is what they do.
 
leatherhat said:
I don't see whats so difficult to accept about this. Gero made them as strong as he possibly could, because he could. He was a mad scientist, pushing science too far is what they do.
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It's awfully convenient that he just so happened to make them strong enough to trash the Super Saiyans after Freeza, but they weren't so strong that the Saiyans couldn't pass them in a year.
 
ArchedThunder said:
It's awfully convenient that he just so happened to make them strong enough to trash the Super Saiyans after Freeza, but they weren't so strong that the Saiyans couldn't pass them in a year.
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The Saiyans saw their level and trained accordingly. On the other hand, in the Future timeline Gohan misjudged their level and died because he trained with an incorrect objective in mind. Makes sense to me.
 
Omnistalgic said:
Hmmm so far it seems like the show is showing it's age, is this just a cash in or is the creator truly passionate about continuing the story, can't tell yet tbh.

Power levels are all over the place and if Goku and Vegeta could destroy planets before, what can they do now? Destroy universes? How much stronger can one get than SSB? It's just getting comical at this point with the power levels, and I wish a base form would get established and then techniques and skills are introduced. I just feel like characters should began focusing on techniques now, only so much powering up you can do at this point and SSB is really boring so far and not unique. Enjoying OP much more than this ATM...nothing even close to Goku going SS for the first time, both Vegeta vs Goku fights, Gohan going SS2, Vegeta crying and Goku killing Frieza., etc...really the only thing I've really appreciated is Vegeta's character development and Goku finally getting into some actual trouble for his dumb personality and being super irresponsible. I mean the Buu arc could have just been avoided if Goku took out far Buu in SS3 form. I dunno, Luffy is the same character type, but Goku is just coming across as annoying and childish, I hope it changes.

Bummed out really, Dragonball is my childhood, this show has to be good.
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This is really dramatic. It's a show for kids
 
HeroR said:
Dragon Ball since its creation has always been a "cash grab", so this is a pointless question to ask.

Yes, Goku and Vegeta can destroy the universe. They don't for the same reason why they haven't destroyed the Earth all through Z, it's called ki control.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a multiplier of a Saiyan's base form like all Super Saiyan forms. It isn't a flat number, so the stronger Goku's base form becomes, the stronger Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan becomes.

Why is Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan uniquely boring and not the other Super Saiyan forms that were just power increases too with no extra benefits? Also, Super introduce several techniques and brought back old ones that were used maybe once or twice in Dragon Ball and Z.

Goku going Super Saiyan for the first time is one of the most iconic moments in anime. Seriously, it's nearly impossible to capture that moment again outside of maybe Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. The transformations aren't even meant to be flashy. Goku also never killed Frieza in Z.

The Buu Saga could have been avoided if Vegeta wasn't a bitch and sold his soul. Not to mention him murdering several thousands people. So Goku holds some blame, but Vegeta started it all.
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i don't really get this? When something is first created it's usually a much higher level of passion associated with the project. My point is, the overall plot and pacing is weaker than before and quality is diminished.

SS to SS2 I would say is similar, but SS3 was pretty dramatic, and also mystic Gohan was a cool different twist on a power up. I actually like the manga stuff with red hair and then becoming slim and fit, I just find it too similar to a SS2 with blue hair.

The rest is just personal preference, nothing wrong with your opinion on it, show just ain't doing it for me this time around, but I'm hopeful because it's pretty early and there has been parts of it I enjoyed.
 
Omnistalgic said:
Hmmm so far it seems like the show is showing it's age, is this just a cash in or is the creator truly passionate about continuing the story, can't tell yet tbh.

Power levels are all over the place and if Goku and Vegeta could destroy planets before, what can they do now? Destroy universes? How much stronger can one get than SSB? It's just getting comical at this point with the power levels, and I wish a base form would get established and then techniques and skills are introduced. I just feel like characters should began focusing on techniques now, only so much powering up you can do at this point and SSB is really boring so far and not unique. Enjoying OP much more than this ATM...nothing even close to Goku going SS for the first time, both Vegeta vs Goku fights, Gohan going SS2, Vegeta crying and Goku killing Frieza., etc...really the only thing I've really appreciated is Vegeta's character development and Goku finally getting into some actual trouble for his dumb personality and being super irresponsible. I mean the Buu arc could have just been avoided if Goku took out far Buu in SS3 form. I dunno, Luffy is the same character type, but Goku is just coming across as annoying and childish, I hope it changes.

Bummed out really, Dragonball is my childhood, this show has to be good.
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I don't think they can straight up destroy universes, those "universe destruction waves" seemed to me more like an effect of fighting a god of destruction. I doubt beerus or champa's ki control is somehow worse than anyone elses, goku and vegeta can't even tell how massive his full power even is, so he's literally constantly controlling it.

The universe is like, really big lol, going from planet buster to universe buster seems like a stretch.
A planet being destroyed in some random area of the galaxy makes no difference to the galaxy, considering there are probably trillions of planets floating around in 1 galaxy alone.
 
What's with the obsession over universal destruction.

Is it really fun to just have the beamstruggles growing bigger in size?

I love Super for the fact that it's trying to shake it up. I'll gladly take nerfs for all the powerful characters if it's going to take DB a step back to its Martial Arts roots.
 
Nightbird said:
What's with the obsession over universal destruction.

Is it really fun to just have the beamstruggles growing bigger in size?

I love Super for the fact that it's trying to shake it up. I'll gladly take nerfs for all the powerful characters if it's going to take DB a step back to its Martial Arts roots.
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I agree, if nothing else, it allows for more narratives than around one or two characters. Some of the recruitment episodes lagged a little, but some were great (Krillin).
 
Omnistalgic said:
Umm what? So it can't be criticized? I also find it absurd the author isn't aware that some portion of the audience are likely returning fans and are therefore much older.

That's a stupid argument man...
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Yeah, feel free to criticize it, but keep your expectations in check. There's plenty of media, even other animes, that you can hold to a higher standard than Dragon Ball.

You gotta take it for what it is. It's not Game of Thrones where the canon has to be exact for things to be enjoyable
 
Nightbird said:
What's with the obsession over universal destruction.

Is it really fun to just have the beamstruggles growing bigger in size?

I love Super for the fact that it's trying to shake it up. I'll gladly take nerfs for all the powerful characters if it's going to take DB a step back to its Martial Arts roots.
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Android/Cell saga was the worst for being standard beam wars as far as I remember. Mystic Gohan stepped back to being mostly a fight fighter, Buu had a ton of tricks up his sleeve and standard blasts were a small part of what he brought to the table, Gotenks' moves were all goofy as hell.

The post-Z stuff has been a toss-up for me in that sense. Beerus is at his best when he's a melee fighter (chopsticks, dragging Goku out of the air by his face or headbutting him into space) but not interesting outside of that. Golden Freeza was boring. U6vU7 brought us some of the most interesting fighters (Magetta, Hit) and some of the most derivative (Cabba, Frost).
 
L Thammy said:
Android/Cell saga was the worst for being standard beam wars as far as I remember. Mystic Gohan stepped back to being mostly a fight fighter, Buu had a ton of tricks up his sleeve and standard blasts were a small part of what he brought to the table, Gotenks' moves were all goofy as hell.

The post-Z stuff has been a toss-up for me in that sense. Beerus is at his best when he's a melee fighter (chopsticks, dragging Goku out of the air by his face or headbutting him into space) but not interesting outside of that. Golden Freeza was boring. U6vU7 brought us some of the most interesting fighters (Magetta, Hit) and some of the most derivative (Cabba, Frost).
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Goku Blacks flourishes and hand beam blade was sweet and different imo
 
NandoGip said:
Goku Blacks flourishes and hand beam blade was sweet and different imo
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That's another reason why I liked that saga. Here's a character who gave the staff an excuse to be as boring as possible, and then he pulls out a beam scythe and rips a whole in the universe than sends smoke clones in. Merged Zamasu was even better.
 
The scythe was sick as a concept but basically not even used so I don't use that as a factor to raise his character. The clone thing was just meh.

Black was cool without that stuff, but they should have used the scythe more.
 
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