Not when it comes to the n word.
Bill Maher apologizes for N-word. HBO/Sasse also comment
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Not when it comes to the n word.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
One is employed by a propaganda network regularly engaged in painting black people and other minorities in negative ways, promoting policies that oppress, justifying police brutality, etc. To say nothing of the obvious misogynistic sexual harassment culture.
The other has been engaged in fighting the above, and made a shitty joke using a slur for which he apologized in less than 24 hours.
No difference indeed.
Zeus Molecules
illegal immigrants are stealing our air
Then there is the other side of it. How much grilling is really happening in a couple of days. He and HBO didn't turn around and have him apologize immediately for saying it. It took a backlash against it. So why should the acceptance of his apology that for all we know could of been forced be immediate?
Also as it's been stated this wasn't a slip of the tongue moment of a sterling defender of people from other walks of life than himself. Maher has a tendency to spew incensitive rhetoric all the time. Where was the apology when he said about Islam "there culture is not like ours, it's worse" or "Islam is the only religion that acts like the Mafia"? Because when you add it all up it comes across as what an insensitve bigot would make jokes about regardless of his professed political views.
Adam_Vania
Banned
Maher is a clown so its good to see him catch shit for once. i would rather it be for how he is constantly warmongering and stoking the anti-Islam fires for a good 15+ years now but maybe there is some truth there about how he can get away with some things and not other things.
legacyzero
Banned
I think you said it better than I did.
And that's not to say that I condone ANY white person to just say it. But intent and character should mean something. Example: if Jon Stewart dropped the in bomb in the way Maher did. It'd be a "WHAT THE FUCK!" Moment for sure. But I'd be more inclined to believe his apology over somebody like Tucker Carlson or Rush Limbaugh.
All I'm saying
Didn't he literally apologize like THE NEXT DAY? The show aired at like 10pm that night. That just seems like a strange thing to judge on. The backlash happened AS the show aired.
And as for his other fuckery, I'm not too in the know on those. I only recently in the last year or so started following him.
I can't believe you are trying to lecture a Black person on how to feel about the n word. As fellow Black person when someone uses that word, I have to pay attention because my life and well-being may be put in jeopardy. That's why I and others have a no nonsense approach when hearing that word.
Maher is old enough to know better, especially since he's used the word before on Real Time. He only apologized because of backlash this time (imo).
Agreed 100%. There is a definite difference.
The only thing I can tell you is to stop defending white people when they get outed for this shit. Intent, is honestly irrelevant, because these things don't happen within a vacuum. Maher said nigger because he felt comfortable and safe enough to use it. Regardless if his use was malicious or not, the issue is his comfort in using it. Why does he feel comfortable to say it?
He can apologize about the use, but that doesn't address WHY he felt like he can use it. People aren't unpacking that. Whether or not he meant to say it as an off hand joke, doesn't matter to me, what matters is that he felt he could say it at all, so frivolously.
People will disagree on the different situations in which you can say it. It's a word that has a meaning, ever powerful that it is, there are situations where everybody can and should use it. Intent matters, but context and reasoning matters as well.
Simply put, even if I intended to just make a harmless joke, was the context appropriate and was my reasoning in my intent appropriate? Once we start processing those two questions, we can begin to understand why intent isn't enough when evaluating situations like this.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
If you want to talk intent this isn't the first or last time he's said racist and bigoted shit (or shown he holds those views) that's just who he is. You can keep absolving him of responsibility of his comments as "slip ups" or whatever but how many times will be a pattern for you?
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Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah fuck me for bringing a little nuance to the discussion where outraged hot takes should be the norm right?
If foot-in-mouth idiotic moments of insensitivity/stupidity were used out of context to consign everyone to purgatory, we'd all be fucked. My point is, taken as a whole, you can't make false equivalences. Maher fucked up, and he owned it. Taken as a whole, I don't think you can make the case he's a racist any more than the average person's implicit bias, of which we all have some.
"Hey black people how bout you..."
¯\_(ツ
_/¯In this discussion in which a white person uses a slur created by white people to describe black people, and this exact situation where a white person uses said slur to refer to themselves in a joke about farm labor...
the nuance here is black people telling you that they aren't okay with that. the nuance here is that people have already brought up Maher's well endowed history of "idiotic moments of insensitivity". the nuance here is your insistence on setting the rulebook on just how offended we should be at racist comments made at our expense.
But fuck our feelings. We're just outraged throwing hot takes and we're just cannibalizing good allies who makes jokes at our expense.
Yeah fuck me for bringing a little nuance to the discussion where outraged hot takes should be the norm right?
If foot-in-mouth idiotic moments of insensitivity/stupidity were used out of context to consign everyone to purgatory, we'd all be fucked. My point is, taken as a whole, you can't make false equivalences. Maher fucked up, and he owned it. Taken as a whole, I don't think you can make the case he's a racist any more than the average person's implicit bias, of which we all have some.
"Hey black people how bout you..."
¯_(ツ
Not sure about you, but I don't use the n word
He didn't slip up and say it. It was clearly a continuation of the other guy's "work in the fields" joke/comment.
victreeb3l
Member
Yeah fuck me for bringing a little nuance to the discussion where outraged hot takes should be the norm right?
If foot-in-mouth idiotic moments of insensitivity/stupidity were used out of context to consign everyone to purgatory, we'd all be fucked. My point is, taken as a whole, you can't make false equivalences. Maher fucked up, and he owned it. Taken as a whole, I don't think you can make the case he's a racist any more than the average person's implicit bias, of which we all have some.
"Hey black people how bout you..."
¯\_(ツ
Except you clearly gloss over the fact that Maher has a history of being a bigoted shithead. Maybe, I dunno, he's actually...a bigot? And people dont trust him because of his history?
🤔
Mexican Sting
Member
To add to Killer Mike's point, it's more of a question of what we are not being silent about. Too often it's about hurt feelings, and less about legislation change. Because really, at the end of the day, your feelings being hurt means and accomplishes nothing. When I hear a joke I don't think is funny, I don't laugh and I move on (for the record I did laugh, and would have equally so if it were a Mexican joke).
On a broader note, what we're seeing here is another example of the ancient pastime of shame culture clashing with the digital age. We just saw this with Kathy Griffin. Society needs to get over this notion of absolute right and wrongness, and accept that every single human being is an evolving, flawed entity. I think Bill Maher is incredibly smart (and yes, I do find him funny as a comedian), but he makes mistakes just like the rest of us. That doesn't make him a racist (and neither does his belief that society should empower Islam reformers).
This might seem trite, but society reminds me almost every day of that scene in Spider-Man when the goblin has spidey all roofied up on that rooftop (no pun intended) and he that, on the inside, what people really want is to see their heroes fail so that they can have someone to hate and feel better about themselves.
Whether you're incredibly offended by Maher's remarks or think the context in which he said it affords him some leeway, keep in mind that these are opinions being expressed by individuals on a forum, not binding declarations on how everyone else must think and feel. There's no need to try and one up each other or shut down opposing view points.
"Hey black people how bout you..."
¯\_(ツ
Man, I'm coming into the conversation late, but I'll be damned if that doesn't look a lot like "why is there no white history month". I think there's a big difference between telling an oppressed minority how to think and feel about oppression and the methods used for it, and telling an oppressive majority that they should stop using those methods no matter what excuses they've come up with to claim it's actually okay.
Pretty much. So much of these conversations are people telling people how they should feel and claiming they are stupid if they feel differently. It's even more embarrassing when it involves non-black folk telling black people how they should feel about a slur towards them.
lightskintwin
Banned
You laughed at that joke? It was lame and didn't make any sense and was forced as fuck. I question your comedic tastes now. LOL I was more offended the joke wasn't funny, than it using the N-word as a Black person.
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Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Your feelings are entirely valid as is the outrage you feel. Maher was in the wrong. Nobody is excusing what he did or giving him a free pass. If you want to feel like this moment is the equivalent of him being caught at a klan rally, that's up to you. I'm expressing the way I see things, not telling you or any person of color what to think.
I absolutely do not nor do I think it's ok. I think the joke has been rightly condemned.
I'm not telling anyone how to think, I'm voicing the distinction I see between someone like Maher making a shitty attempt at humor and someone whose whole job is to spew bullshit which drives policies which actually fuck over minorities. I don't think my take should be ignored or invalidated because of the color of my skin, even if my perspective isn't one from an oppressed class. I'm sorry if that's offensive.
I've stated previously I didn't like him acquiescing to Milo, and I think he's put his foot in his mouth a lot, but if you think he's got something against black people, after watching him for years, I think you're wrong. Honestly I think Maher is a smug prick most of the time but I still enjoy the discussions on his show.
Mexican Sting
Member
I didn't bust a gut, but I did chuckle. White senator was being white, and Bill basically went from 0-60 and dude didn't know how to react.
Darryl M R
Member
Wrong. Having people that claim to be allies or on the Left argue that your feelings and emotions are meaningless will only increase voter apathy. People claim to be progressive but cannot accept that people of color find offense with Maher's use of the word nigger and that his apology did not seem sincere.
Instead people of color are lectured on why his apology should be accepted or how they should feel.
If I find something offensive then it is offensive to me. There is no need to have people coming in and saying "C'mon move on it's not that big of a deal. What about x, y, and z person?"
I want to know that racism and diet racism won't be tolerated and people will empower the voices of marginalized groups even when some people within those groups say "But's okay guys, I'm Black and I'm cool with it."
lightskintwin
Banned
Oh ok, Bill did make the senator uncomfortable. Probably the last thing he expected an older White guy to say to him publicly on air. LOL
excelsiorlef
Member
It also gave that Senator... an actual politician a chance to pretend to not be racist by denouncing Maher's joke.
lightskintwin
Banned
This is also true.
You mention false equivalences, then pretend Maher said this by accident. He had a whole set up for a joke and it was a failure. Maher isn't some 5-year-old kid, and for me, the word doesn't easily come out unless you use that word regularly. Then you go to the "everyone's a little racist excuse" which is the oldest line in the book of excuses for racism.
The fact that your viewing Black people as 'outraged' is part of your problem. I'm not outraged, I'm disappointed. By Maher and excuses, I'm getting from his defenders. I'm tired of fighting racism that comes from conservatives while being gagged to ignore racism from those on the left. It's exhausting.
If a Black person doesn't want to fuck with a person like Maher because he used the n-word. That should be fine, there shouldn't be some debate about it, other than ensuring that those on the left aren't using the word recklessly and then painting us as outraged cannibalizing leftists. Those on the left need to work on that, because just calling us oversensitive tells me that many don't want to understand our issues and just want us to tow the line for them.
If you can't see how your comments were out of place, that's on you.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Nobody accidently says nigger. Dude is probably regretting saying it but he didn't make a total innocently minded joke. Dude knew what he was doing.
Darryl M R
Member
You know when I hear about a situation of sexism I don't add my commentary and say "Well that's definitely bad that your boss slut-shamed you, but you know what would be worse? Legal, non-consensual women human trafficking. Yea. So try not to get too offended or I'll equate the intensity of your feelings."
Using a big media platform to propagate racist stereotype of Muslims which lead to harassment, oppression, and literal murder of brown people isn't funny.
Give me a fucking break with this shit.
D
Deleted member 1159
Unconfirmed Member
Did I say he said it by accident? I said it's been rightly condemned. It was wrong. I'm not excusing it. Your feelings are valid and not an overreaction. I'm not telling anyone to keep tuning in or give him a pass. What I am doing is drawing a distinction between Maher and a FNC host or worse. I think he's made a point of pointing out systemic racism over the years and pushing for politicians that would do the most to fight for minorities. He's definitely flawed. I don't agree with everything the man has ever said and probably would find him obnoxious to be around in real life. I think my assessment is reasonable; if people want to ignore it because I'm white, fine. I'm sorry if I was offensive, but I don't think I'm wrong.
Muffdraul
Member
Can we please not fool ourselves? There are surely many whites who do use "nigga" with each other on a daily basis, ironically, basically just imitating rappers, movies, Grand Theft Auto 5, whatever. Not necessarily a shred of racism or malice or hatred behind it, in such cases. It doesn't have to be such a black and white issue, pun not intended, I swear.
Let's be honest. The crime is in saying it where someone who will be offended can hear it. Obviously a white man saying it on TV is a big no-no and Maher knows he fucked up. He knew the second after he said it.
plagiarize
Banned
Racism doesn't mean you *hate* a group, but that you apply negative stereotypes to them or believe they are less than you.
People need to realise this to wake up.
Of course it wasn't an accident. It was a joke. A bad offensive joke. He never said it was an accident. It was bad judgement on a bad joke that he has since apologized for.
I feel like people are lumping In every typical response possible to when people say this word to this situation. "The left eating itself" is apt here, because it feels like the mob simply munching away without much thought to this specific situation. It's frustrating to read things like this in a supposedly left leaning forum like this.
Apologies are irrelevant, since he either didn't mean it or was forced to do it by HBO. Even with no evidence to support either
Context is irrelevant, because no one can say anything offensive without being racist at heart. Everyone posting has never made any kind of offensive joke that they've regretted ever
Him being white helps no matters, and brings with it more automatic conclusions.
Gotdatmoney
Member
White people should know you don't say nigger period. I'm not going to file it under "oh he made a bad joke". Naw, he said something he knows he shouldn't say because he thought he would get away with it. Because he doesn't feel it's a big deal.
Just because you say sorry it doesn't fucking mean people are obligated to accept it. There is no room for this. It's just people who wanna downplay the historical context of that word like "oh but he fights for good causes so let it go" is a valid point of view. No it's not. And we've all made inappropriate jokes but we all A) do not have television shows and B) had a defense force of people trying to downplay our actions.
It seems like the more Maher gets in the news for controversy, the more he gets defended, and the more he gets defended the more these threads expose moments in his past where he's done some shit worthy of a side-eye, and for me as someone with a passing relationship with his show, this is building up to the point where I can't understand why people are so adamant on championing him as a noteworthy ally. His reaffirmations of progressiveness inevitably come with an addendum on his weird vaccination and GMO stances, his anti-religious fervor that progressives champion commonly seeps into racism against specifically Arabic peoples, and now this dumb joke is revealing the statements he's made about Wayne Brady, and how apparently a former girlfriend said he uses his black romantic partners to prop up his own intellectual and racial superiority. It seems like there's just a backlog of fuckboi shit this man has done, and it's like, where is the line between rightful disassociation and "cannibalizing your own?"
plagiarize
Banned
How the fuck do people think it is okay to excuse racist jokes as "Just jokes"? Racist jokes are goddamn *racist*. You can't ignore that part of this.
Again, we don't need allies like Maher. There are better comedians with more insightful takes on modern politics without hating on Muslims, telling racist jokes or giving trans hating trolls like Milo a platform.
I'm not going to put up with unacceptable shit just because that person also dislikes the GOP and Donald Trump. Unacceptable shit, such as racist jokes, need to be called out now as much as ever.
But ignore that it was racist. And say it's just an ill advised joke.
Oh the poor white guy can't use the N word.
Get over it. White people are privileged as fuck that they can't deal with black people having a single privilege over a single word.
Get over it.
Maher told a racist joke. If he can't do his job without doing that, then someone else should get that job.
And no, I never accidentally told a racist joke.
lightskintwin
Banned
The problem is a history of Blacks having to deal with bullshit from supposed White Allies just because they're liberal and then tone policed about what they should and shouldn't be worried about by said White Allies. The problem is Maher is White and White Supermacy benefits Whites regardless of their political affiliation so when Deepwater says he sees no difference, that's what he means.
BrutishMrFish
Member
Fox News people have repeatedly made racist jokes, been called out for it, and have been defended with the same excuses that people are using to defend Bill, and when they've ever apologized they just said they were offensive while never admitting that they actually said something racist.
The comparison is valid because the situations are so similar. Just because one guy hasn't pushed as many bigoted ideas as an entire network isn't a reason to let this slide.
It's tiresome to deal with overt racism and it's tiresome to deal with diet racism. I don't want deal with either, that's the point. I don't want to see it from Fox News and I don't want to see it from Bill. Yet, every time he commits a grievance, it's largely ignored and the rhetoric surrounding it is, I must be oversensitive and other minorities have bigger issues to focus on.
If a white friend said an n word joke to me, I wouldn't be friends with them anymore and I wouldn't accept their apology. I don't have the patience for that type of nonsense. That being said, I wish those on the left could realize how undercutting minority perspective encourages our apathy. And you played part in that.
"I hate Black people" and "Wow, you're so articulate, you are a credit to your race" are in the same league to me. The latter is the type of racism I'm supposed to accept because a person leans left, fuck that. Bill has had plenty of chances to dial back and change direction with his comments but I don't see any growth.
Lord Frieza
Member
Wilmore 'nuked' his ass on Overtime, which is seen by less than a 1/10 of the audience of Real Time, and I don't know if just saying, 'fuck you,' is really nuking someone, especially when no one brought up 1/3 of the stuff Milo has done. Milo's appearance on Maher was a disaster, end of story. Anyone who defends it either is a fool or has no idea how vile a person Milo is.
It's not about if you actually told a racist joke. It's about if you ever offended anyone about anything accidentally. Have you ever made a damn mistake that you regretted.
Dude makes jokes for a living. He is on an "edgy" show. He is on HBO. He is always trying to be quick witted with fast jokes. The chances of him making an ill advised joke is much higher than most people. And you can make mistakes
And no one is ignoring anything. I feel like that's the mob just munchin away again. You can give context to a situation without making excuses. He fucked up, and he apologized. You don't have to accept his apology. But you also don't have to speculate a bunch of nonsense which has no evidence to back it (which is what I was responding to).
Everything you are saying to "get over" he already did through his apology. Now if that's not good enough and he must lose his career, well that's your opinion. In my opinion this joke was way different than micheal Richards shouting the word over and over and other examples of this. It was poor taste and offensive and shouldn't have been said, but to me not indicative of a pattern or internal truth that demands he get thrown off the air
I'd be in the mob too if I saw any evidence that he thought what he said was fine, or if he defended himself. But he did not. He didn't event try to rationalize it any way or provide any context for why he may have said it. He flatly said, it was a mistake and that he was sorry.
People think he's leftist or liberal when in fact Maher is not of the left.
"He's a pot-smoking, right-libertarian who backs Dems bc he hates social cons."
Darryl M R
Member
Maher's situation is about a racist joke where he said nigger, not just offending people.
You are going out of your way to excuse racism. Being edgy is not the same as being racist.
By a mob do you mean a sizable group of minorities that are upset? Is there a limit on how many colored folks can be upset at a situation?
I agree that everyone can have their own opinion on if the apology was sufficient. What I do not think is productive is to critique how those affected by Maher's use of the word are reacting. And I would argue that people of color are harmed by the casual use of the word nigger.
Sharing my opinion again in this thread: if Maher was truly sorry and understands the power of the word nigger he would donate to a cause dedicated to removing social conditions that drastically affect people of color. Undisclosed amount.
So you justify being in a mob when it hits your threshold and critique others for having a lower threshold.
People think he's leftist or liberal when in fact Maher is not of the left.
"He's a pot-smoking, right-libertarian who backs Dems bc he hates social cons."
I don't know enough maher to know if that's true. But don't libertarians want free market healthcare. Bill is all about the single payer
BlazinSkatinAxel
Member
He also had Milo on his show and is a known Xenophobe.
gimmmick
Member
White dude says the N-Word on national TV and he gets to keep his job?
His show is like the Wild West for hbo. Little to no boundaries , for fuck sakes he and killer mike smoked a blunt on live TV.
What he did was wrong, but I hope HBO doesn't fire his ass.