There is a certain amount of a malleability to genre because genres are human constructs, but once you start making things that are fundamentally antithetical to a genre then you are no longer working within that genre. Noir, for example, can't be redefined to include a romantic comedy whose meet cute scenes take place in smokey bars on rainy nights just because older noirs privileged scenes of smokey bars on rainy nights. There is a difference between words being elastic and words forfeiting their meaning.
"The Last Night" (Milkshake Duck incarnate) E3 Trailer [XBO/Win10/Steam 2018]
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There is a certain amount of a malleability to genre because genres are human constructs, but once you start making things that are fundamentally antithetical to a genre then you are no longer working within that genre. Noir, for example, can't be redefined to include a romantic comedy whose meet cute scenes take place in smokey bars on rainy nights just because older noirs privileged scenes of smokey bars on rainy nights. There is a difference between words being elastic and words forfeiting their meaning.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
I would say for the most part, modern cyberpunk is mostly concerned with opposition or negative portrayal of a power structure -- not necessarily one that is currently existing. You could the two most common ones are anti-corporate power, which is a response to an existing power structure, but if you look at other takes on cyberpunk (e.g. the recent highly dystopic Deus Ex MD), they responses to potential existing power structures (e.g. MD evolved from past Deus Ex games to include more response to authoritarianism).
So I think it could in theory be fair game for a cyberpunk to explore other political ideologies or movements. Cyberpunk often explores existing social problems, too: urban density or urbanization; social policies; etc.
As these things evolve since the 70s I think cyberpunk should evolve to consider what happens if new ideologies and their utopian ideals because dystopic.
However, I think there has to be some rooted 'existing' believability to it. There could be some broader liberal power structures that could be explored.
Feminism in particular, though, is still such an activist cause and so far yet away from being a power structure that it seems a unbelievable choice for cyberpunk because feminism is still basically difficult to believe as the power structure rather than the punk. Feminism still is the punk. (Though, I mean, it's a free country... if that's what he wants to explore or portray than have at it). Choosing it does feel someone as a personal reaction to it rather than a societal reaction to it -- which is what cyberpunk typically explores.
But there could have been a choice other than just capitalism or authoritarianism. To explore more social-based institutionalizing could possibly work. In some ways, it could be even more punk precisely because it's such an outcast notion of what exists today as utopian ideals.
PaulExcellent
Member
Fuck this dude.
Ruined an awesome looking game with his shit opinions.
Ruined an awesome looking game with his shit opinions.
More_Badass
Member
Usually in the books where such society flaws are "eliminated", that utopia is at the cost of individuality, free will, one's humanity, etc. That classic twisted utopia like The Giver and other works. The "rampant capitalism worked after all" twist on cyberpunk could be interesting if it really didnt work, it jusr seems like it did on the surface.
. Hierophant
Banned
cyberpunk has punk in the name, being subservient to authority and spouting lines about how capitalism is great is not punk in the slightest, this guy is simply using the style of cyberpunk without any of the actual substance
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Or maybe it's so not punk that it is punk.
Hierophant
Banned
if ironic punk becomes a thing i'll overdose myself on the latest designer drugs that are supposed to make me feel like i'm someone else
the core conceit of why this gets it wrong is this (handily found on a reddit post on r/cyberpunk)
There are already people who earnestly believe right-wing is the new counterculture, so...
Hierophant
Banned
more posts from reddit that summarise it better than i ever could
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Just learned one of my friends on FB is defending this dude. Posting links to his tweets where he's saying he's changed.
Hierophant
Banned
*First Line of the Game*
"Anita Sarkeesian was the cause of my horrible accident that made it so I couldn't get augs"
Black Mantis
Member
Well, I'm grateful for learning about this, won't be buying despite how cool it looks.
Beyond any of his stupid personal politics, this makes the game sound dumb as fuck.
You gotta be fucking kidding me. Not buying this now. Sounsd like a game made for and by alt right supporters.
Beyond any of his stupid personal politics, this makes the game sound dumb as fuck.
What a fuckface. Oh well, one less videogame to spend money on I suppose.
Would've been more upset if Ashen was made by assholes tbh, that game looks sick
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
GG Sympathizers getting recognized at industry events is, sadly, nothing new.
GG is gaming's Roman Polanski.
It looks even better than those first screenshots
I kinda like the original more, but it still looks dope. Been keeping an eye on this. I hope my PC will be able to handle it.
Even a 1060 should be an overkill for this right?
Miles Quaritch
Member
This thread is something else.
You have the writer trying their best to promote the game while increasingly damning info comes out about the developer.
I feel sorry for the writer if they didn't know who they were working alongside.
You have the writer trying their best to promote the game while increasingly damning info comes out about the developer.
I feel sorry for the writer if they didn't know who they were working alongside.
freethought
Member
Then don't.
this is totally unrelated to the game, and I have zero confidence they'll be able to write a real compelling cyberpunk story anyway
I've always wondered why "soviet cyberpunk" doesn't exist, like, the Soviet Union was essentially a corporatist dictatorship, and it'd be pretty easy to extend most major cyberpunk idea to that. It just happens to be derived from communism rather than capitalism. Plus, duh, the general contrast of setting a cyberpunk story in the Soviet Union instead of America.
It's weird that it's never been done, even in this era of barely-cyberpunk-cyberpunk. It seems so obvious.
I've always wondered why "soviet cyberpunk" doesn't exist, like, the Soviet Union was essentially a corporatist dictatorship, and it'd be pretty easy to extend most major cyberpunk idea to that. It just happens to be derived from communism rather than capitalism. Plus, duh, the general contrast of setting a cyberpunk story in the Soviet Union instead of America.
It's weird that it's never been done, even in this era of barely-cyberpunk-cyberpunk. It seems so obvious.
Beyond any of his stupid personal politics, this makes the game sound dumb as fuck.
WTF
I was interested at first but this is a no-go.
I really hope he gets called out for this. There should be no platform for messages like this.
Palette Swap
Member
I don't, when their answer on Twitter is to handwave it as haters.
MåndagSöndag
Banned
Who gives a fuck what cyber punk is suppose to be. It has no baring what so ever.
It is a game. It can regard or disregard any "genre" cliches it wants. The game is going to deal with an overly "progressive" dystopian world with an matriarchal power structure. Which is very interesting. Ateast its not something that has been done 10000 of times.
I cannot see if its reflected in the art. But damn the game looks good.
It is a game. It can regard or disregard any "genre" cliches it wants. The game is going to deal with an overly "progressive" dystopian world with an matriarchal power structure. Which is very interesting. Ateast its not something that has been done 10000 of times.
I cannot see if its reflected in the art. But damn the game looks good.
Duggie_Brown
Member
Best looking game at the MS conference if you ask me. Slick, stylish, full of colour (unlike mostly everything else shown) and naturally harkens back to games like Flash Back and movies like Blade Runner. Will get this on PC for sure.
Beyond any of his stupid personal politics, this makes the game sound dumb as fuck.
thanks for pointing this out. i really hope this limits the scope of this guy's success and has people at the top actually vet what they're getting into when they strike these deals.
in principle, yes, you can write a compelling story about matriarchies or whatever, and people have indeed have.
but in practice, it's pretty obvious that this isn't intended to be a thoughtful analysis of the concept, it's meant to be a platform to advocate the developer's scumbag politics, directly related to the ideology of a literal hate group.
but in practice, it's pretty obvious that this isn't intended to be a thoughtful analysis of the concept, it's meant to be a platform to advocate the developer's scumbag politics, directly related to the ideology of a literal hate group.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
MåndagSöndag;240243328 said:
Things are not automatically good just because they are different.
MontyBrown
Banned
I don't necessarily think this guy being a piece of shit means you can't buy and enjoy the game. People with shit opinions are capable of creating great works.
It's just whether this particular shithead is, I guess. Wait for reviews kinda situation.
It's just whether this particular shithead is, I guess. Wait for reviews kinda situation.
freethought
Member
He's obviously using the game as a sounding board for his views though
MåndagSöndag
Banned
I agree.
But it is not a negative either. A different take on something can make it more interesting.
Always-honest
Banned
That looks great.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I don't think anybody disagrees that people will hand-wave the issue of supporting people like Tim Sorbet in the gaming industry so that they may play a game. That sort of willful ignorance is exactly what's allowed him to get to this stage to begin with so that it may permeate further.
MontyBrown
Banned
Doesn't mean it can't be interesting.
I don't really want to 'support' these people but it would be kinda interesting to experience things from the POV of someone you fundamentally disagree with. Uncomfortable and frustrating, sure, but at least that's evoking something from you.
Is there a comparable to this - like a film directed by a massive racist/homophobe where those themes are central to the film, perhaps?
He can make what he wants, it's really the publisher here that should be looked at because they're basically endorsing this and giving him a platform. They either didn't do their homework, or they did and they're going to look the other way in the hopes of making money.
Hierophant
Banned
Turner diaries? I'm not sure, honestly I do think people are writing it off a bit too early (even though every indication shows its gonna be some dumbass shlock that doesn't deserve the cyberpunk aesthetic)
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