Mario Odyssey is giving me Banjo-Kazooie vibes with its sandbox structure

ScOULaris

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So I've watched most of the Treehouse gameplay demos that aired over the last few days on the Nintendo YouTube channel, and it took me a while to come to a conclusion as to how I felt about the sandbox-style design they're utilizing with Odyssey. At first I was concerned because videos showed several moons being acquired using no platforming whatsoever. With the larger areas to explore, checkpoints with fast travel, and "quests" being given by NPC's it was starting to worry me a bit. While I love the more open environments of Mario 64, I do think that Mario excels most when he's being put to the test in platforming scenarios.

But now that I've seen more footage of the game's various kingdoms I have more faith in the new direction in which they're taking the series with Odyssey. In recent years we've seen a small indie movement (led by the disappointing Yooka-Laylee) that seems to be trying to rekindle the magic of N64-era platformers like Banjo-Kazooie. Back then, the simple act of navigating a colorful fully-3D environment with smooth controls was novel and enjoyable, so most platformers of that era were collectathons that emphasized exploration as much (or sometimes more) than actual platforming. As Yooka-Laylee demonstrated earlier this year, that doesn't cut it on its own anymore. 3D Platformers today have to have solid, engaging platforming challenges to keep the player interested. That's where I feel Mario Odyssey is looking to bridge the gap between the two schools of 3D platformer design.

Odyssey looks to be Nintendo's attempt to inject that sandbox-style Kazooie level design with their trademark polish and knack for combining creativity with smart design choices. Whereas some moons can be acquired through simple explorative means, others come as a reward for clearing a wide variety of dedicated platforming sections. Hopefully they manage to strike a nice balance and the kingdoms don't end up feeling like vast spaces of emptiness with only a handful of platforming areas mixed into them.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that Banjo had more difficult platforming than Mario 64? It wasn't explicit linear platforming like the Bowser stages but when playing it on the 360 I was surprised by the precision it required from me to clear each stage. I never got a "just novel to run around in 3D" vibe.
 
Banjo-Kazooie style adventure with Mario controls and platforming is like a dream come true. Hopefully it inspires others to create something similar. I miss Banjo :(
 
It's something I've noticed too. Mario 64 and Sunshine were games that focused on traversal rather than collecting things, a big contrast to Banjo, but it's evident that Odyssey is moving away from throwing you into a level that has one abstract or specific goal to seek out, instead making all those goals available in the level itself.

Overall I still think Odyssey will be about traversal than collecting, but there are elements that weren't in 64 or Sunshine for sure.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that Banjo had more difficult platforming than Mario 64? It wasn't explicit linear platforming like the Bowser stages but when playing it on the 360 I was surprised by the precision it required from me to clear each stage. I never got a "just novel to run around in 3D" vibe.

I wasn't saying that Banjo fell into that camp, but rather gamers that were more forgiving of relatively mediocre 3D platformers back then because of the novelty factor. When something resoundingly mediocre like Yooka-Laylee releases today with its huge-but-empty environment, it fails to engage platforming fans. Had Yooka-Laylee released back in 1998. however, it might have found an audience solely thanks to its big, colorful worlds to "explore."
 
Seeing the "transformations" instantly made me think of Banjo-Kazooie. I absolutely cannot wait for this game. The song has been stuck in my head.
 
I feel like the posession mechanics is an evolution of both the transformations mechanics of Banjo and the multiple character gameplay of DK64.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that Banjo had more difficult platforming than Mario 64? It wasn't explicit linear platforming like the Bowser stages but when playing it on the 360 I was surprised by the precision it required from me to clear each stage. I never got a "just novel to run around in 3D" vibe.

I think Banjo had more precision platforming yes, but the actual skillset and physics had less depth than Mario 64. Mario 64's levels are filled with tricky traditional platforming obstacles though, the pinnacle of which is probably Tick Tock Clock.
 
It's like a mixture of 64, Banjo-Kazooie, and Galaxy. Lots of exploration, lots of collecting, lots of little segemented platforming-challenge areas, and an insane amount of variety.

Basically, it's my dream game.
 
You are completely right.

Some things that are BK inspired:
- 100 unique coins per stage == 100 musical notes per stage in BK
- Levels are static, they don't change per objective, same as BK; ie in other Mario games, you had to enter the stage for each star, and it would be slightly different each time to accomodate that Star challenge, especially true in Galaxy, now you can find multiple "moon pieces" each visit, just like BK, and the stages don't change.
- Transformations (although it is much better handled here than in BK).
- Rolling, although rolling in BK was clunky and slow, this seems more like YL.
- Double character; Mario + Hat == Banjo + Kazooie; Kazooie and Hat are excuses to make you jump higher, farther, attack enemies, etc.

Some new things, not BK inspired, but not Mario either:
- No more 1ups, each life costs 10 coins now.
- Unique coins used to buy unique stuff to access closed areas in levels.

Edit: Mario things retained:
- You get all your abilities at once, apparently, not sure about this though, but if not, then that's totally BK.
 
- Levels are static, they don't change per objective, same as BK; ie in other Mario games, you had to enter the stage for each star, and it would be slightly different each time to accomodate that Star challenge, especially true in Galaxy, now you can find multiple "moon pieces" each visit, just like BK, and the stages don't change.

This isn't entirely true, though it's handled differently than before. Levels appear to change based on main story progression. For example,
the sand kingdom sometimes takes place at night with new enemies and objectives.
 
This isn't entirely true, though it's handled differently than before. Levels change based on main story progression. For example,
the sand kingdom sometimes takes place at night with new enemies and objectives.
Well yeah, BK did this too in Click Clock Wood, but the point stands I think; it isn't like Galaxy were the stage was basically unrecognizable from star to star.
 
I largely agree. this new game seems like a mix between Mario, Banjo, and stylistically, the first 3D sonic games.

As a result, It's very weird, but also amazing.
 
Is it weird that it actually most closely resembles the unreleased A Hat in Time to me? :lol:

It really just looks like a progression from Sunshine though: story importance and integration into levels, alt-platforming challenges utilizing sidekick, expressive in world NPCs. You don't even need to go to Galaxy to explain the one-off platforming challenges because Sunshine had those too. Hell there's even goo you clear away!
 
Streamlined Mario is the best Mario to me
I preferred 3d world and land even over galaxy, with galaxy 2 over the first exactly because of this

Yeah, then this game is probably not for you, seems like it's as open as 64 and sunshine were. I personally can't wait to play it as a giant fan of both of those two games but I understand how there is two fanbases when it comes to 3d marios.
 
I agree 100%. I mentioned this in the trailer thread, and I really dig it. I may actually like Banjo-Kazooie better than Mario 64 (but that's a separate discussion).

I also feel like there is a decent amount of Banjo-Tooie in there. The sizes of the worlds, warp points, the multi-tiered part of the Forest stage.

Was any information given on stage selection? I know we have the Odyssey, but how do we select where we go and do we have a choice as to whether we go at day or night? Finally, let's say we unfreeze the desert, can we go back to the frozen desert?
 
I see a lot of similarities with Space Station Silicon Valley, due to your ability to take control of other creatures to solve various open level puzzles and progress further into a world.
 
Well yeah, BK did this too in Click Clock Wood, but the point stands I think; it isn't like Galaxy were the stage was basically unrecognizable from star to star.

Well yeah, the structure isn't similar to Galaxy, but you said the stages don't change, which is false. You don't have access to every objective the first time you enter a kingdom. I do get your overall point, though.

It's basically taking the idea of a Super Mario 64/Banjo Kzooie stage and evolving it.
 
Don't get the Mario 64 comments. This game easily resembles Banjo more in terms of world structure. In Odyssey you can get all the moons in the levels, and the levels don't change. You also have a standard set of abilities (jumps, throw hat, take over objects, etc) which you use to get all the moons in a level, just like a banjo collect-a-thon.

In Mario 64, you have to re-enter the level for a specific star mission, the level will change.
 
This isn't entirely true, though it's handled differently than before. Levels appear to change based on main story progression. For example,
the sand kingdom sometimes takes place at night with new enemies and objectives.

How does this game keep track of progression? It didn't seem like you pick an objective before entering a stage. How would one enter the night time segment for example?
 
It's giving me Sonic Adventure vibes, and I mean that in a good way. Because it has the more open areas where you can chat to characters and find secrets, which also give the world context. Then it has the more traditional linear segments where you have to reach the goal/boss, which you access by solving problems or discovering areas in the open areas. I know Gaf hates Sonic Adventure and likes to use it as an unflattering comparison, but Mario Odyssey seems to be capturing the aspects of that game I liked when I was younger, and I see that as a good thing.
 
It's like a mixture of 64, Banjo-Kazooie, and Galaxy. Lots of exploration, lots of collecting, lots of little segemented platforming-challenge areas, and an insane amount of variety.

Basically, it's my dream game.

Don't be selfish! It's most peoples dream game, lol. Or nightmare, depending on if you have a family that will try to bug you ask you to stop playing because the kids are hungry or my wife wants my body for the sex. Family always getting in my way.
 
Am I wrong in thinking that Banjo had more difficult platforming than Mario 64? It wasn't explicit linear platforming like the Bowser stages but when playing it on the 360 I was surprised by the precision it required from me to clear each stage. I never got a "just novel to run around in 3D" vibe.
I would argue otherwise and I think it has weaker platforming than Rares later output as well despite those games going in an increasingly adventure dominanted direction

A lot of the platforming challenge from Banjo imo stems from the endurance of having to suss out where the notes are, then acquiring them all without dying. The actual platforming itself is usually very simple. Compare how static most of the jumps are in Click Clock Wood to Tick Tock Clock. TTC features a lot of moving parts and obstacles designed to keep Mario from just moving straight and lining up leaps. In Banjo the climb up CCW is still dexterious and perilous but you can stop and line up every jump since theyre all "static" and its main non-jump obstacle is remembering to tap attack during some jumps to clear out bird enemies.

I guess to sum up imo Mario has the more difficult platforming because even though 64 isnt as platforming dense as later entries, when they do challenge you with its with specifically designed tricky jumps and obstacles meant to challenge your skillset directly. In Banjo the platforming is usually very simple in design but the challenge stems from metachallenge of gathering all of the notes without dying or else you have to start over again. I prefer the more direct challenge of 64.

hope this makes sense i kinda just rolled out of bed lmao
 
How does this game keep track of progression? It didn't seem like you pick an objective before entering a stage. How would one enter the night time segment for example?

There are linear sets of objectives in addition to the fully free-roaming stuff. For most Moons, you'll just pick them up and keep moving without missing a beat, but main story objective moons actually show you the mission name when you start and you'll see a quick transition screen showing you've cleared the mission before moving on.
 
Streamlined Mario is the best Mario to me
I preferred 3d world and land even over galaxy, with galaxy 2 over the first exactly because of this

This game seems to still have plenty of streamlined platforming. I'd recommend watching the Treehouse footage of the forest and desert worlds.
 
Well yeah, the structure isn't similar to Galaxy, but you said the stages don't change, which is false. You don't have access to every objective the first time you enter a kingdom. I do get your overall point, though.

It's basically taking the idea of a Super Mario 64/Banjo Kzooie stage and evolving it.
Exactly.
 
How does this game keep track of progression? It didn't seem like you pick an objective before entering a stage. How would one enter the night time segment for example?

No idea. They've been quite vague about it. But different kingdom variations were talked about (and shown off) during Treehouse Live
(New Donk City during a thunderstorm and the sand kingdom at night, for example)
 
There are linear sets of objectives in addition to the fully free-roaming stuff. For most Moons, you'll just pick them up and keep moving without missing a beat, but main story objective moons actually show you the mission name when you start and you'll see a quick transition screen showing you've cleared the mission before moving on.

Cool. Was this shown during Treehouse Live? I'll go find the segment if it was, I want to see the difference between main missions and regular moons.
 
Mario in real world environments and real world looking animals and people.

I mean look, I don't want to dismiss anyone's opinion since we're all entitled to them, but if you've been watching ANY of the Treehouse live streams for Odyssey, then you know that comparison is flat out wrong, and literally only exists at face value, that yeah, there are HUMANS in a MARIO world. But that's it.
 
This game seems to still have plenty of streamlined platforming. I'd recommend watching the Treehouse footage of the forest and desert worlds.


Oh I have seen the footage
Issue is that those "mini levels" are separated (for the vast majority) from the macro level where it seems that the free exploration rules

Similar to BOTW shrines compared to usual zelda dungeons

I lived BOTW so maybe in the end I will really enjoy also this

That I am sure will be one he'll of a game
 
I kinda wish I was seeing more platforming.
Maybe I just watched the wrong bits?

Edit: I see others saying the same. Yeah, I'll try the game but BOTW style "platforming zones" is not really what I want from Mario. I play Zelda to feel like I'm adventuring so it worked there.

That said I'll probably love it.
 
How does this game keep track of progression? It didn't seem like you pick an objective before entering a stage. How would one enter the night time segment for example?

B&K would open up new jiggies after getting certain ones and sonic unleashed allowed you to change time of day when selecting the hub. Don't think it will be very different from that.
 
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