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[Beefy]

@BBCLauraK
PM Says 120 blocks have failed fire tests now, in 37 different councils
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/880019614217973760

 

[TimmmV]

Anyone old enough to get an NI number should be old enough to vote

 

[A-V-B]

Cunt is the most versatile word in the English language. It works in basically any sentence as a noun, adjective or verb.

Eg. I cunted that cunty little cunt in his cunting face and he cunting well deserved it, the cunt.

Perfect English

Malcolm Tucker?!

 

[Beefy]

@faisalislam
No 10: "Dealing with our debt has meant hard work and sacrifice including public sector workers - pay restraint has helped protect jobs"

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/880083412270428161

Sure..........

 

[Theonik]

If one is old enough to be allowed to make decisions that would ruin one's life then one should be given the franchise.

 

[Uzzy]

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/880083412270428161

Sure..........

U-turn after u-turn. That's impressively quick, to be honest.

 

[Theonik]

U-turn after u-turn. That's impressively quick, to be honest.

As a tory colleague said to me before the election:
'Isn't it good that she is listening?'

 

[Dougald]

Given how abysmal pay rises have been for me in the last 7 years, I'm sure the public pay cap has an effect on wages overall regardless of sector

Sometimes I'd kill even for that 1%

 

[Audioboxer]

Finally seen the Q-Time episode I've been meaning to make time watch for about a week whilst dinner is cooking ~ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08w7c9q/question-time-22062017

Still some dafties in the crowd but a bit better than some of the prior episodes.

And there is the DM panelist trumpet championing austerity... and getting clapped. So yeah. Turkeys lining up for Christmas, unless of course the clappers are the stereotypical "rich folk" adhering to the I've got mine, fuck you attitude. I say "rich folk" as there is a lot of middle-class working voters who routinely vote against their interests for the illusion of walking alongside the truly affluent/rich people.

 

[Theonik]

Given how abysmal pay rises have been for me in the last 7 years, I'm sure the public pay cap has an effect on wages overall regardless of sector

Sometimes I'd kill even for that 1%

It's more an issue of inflation being really high. Most people might get 1-2% raise a year to account for inflation in the private sector but inflation in 2012 was 3%+

You do get more job mobility in the private sector too though that means you can get nice jumps of 20%+ by jumping companies etc.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

It's more an issue of inflation being really high. Most people might get 1-2% raise a year to account for inflation in the private sector but inflation in 2012 was 3%+

You do get more job mobility in the private sector too though that means you can get nice jumps of 20%+ by jumping companies etc.

Inflation is "really high"? Wasn't it like 0% in 2015/16?

What counts as "really high" inflation anyway?

Crab?

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Inflation is "really high"? Wasn't it like 0% in 2015/16?

What counts as "really high" inflation anyway?

Crab?

iunno. 2% is target. 1-3% is inside target bounds. So 3%+ is high. "really high" is arbitrary but, like, 4% seems as good a number as any. That's supposing you agreed with a 2% target to begin with.

It's one of those 'how many pieces of sand before you have a pile' questions. It's also relative. 2% inflation is high when your nominal pay is frozen!

 

[hodgy100]

You guys aren't joking about private sector mobility leading to massive pay raises. A friend of mine got a 40% raise by moving company! (From Yorkshire to London mind but still)

 

[Theonik]

Inflation is "really high"? Wasn't it like 0% in 2015/16?

What counts as "really high" inflation anyway?

Crab?

Think of it this way, if inflation is higher than how much your earnings have increased in that period then your income has decreased in real terms. For public sector workers after the 1% freeze that means they have seen significant decline on their wages since 2011 when it topped 3.8% 2015 was an exception and would allow them to make more but we are looking at a minimum of about 2.7% this year at this rate. Target for the BOE is 2% I think. But it all depends.

Of course one should note that there is more than one estimate for inflation and the choice of one's metrics would alter their view somewhat. It's also not reflected 1:1 on all goods. Housing for instance especially in London increases in value faster than inflation, and if one chose Fredos as one's inflation index one would be a very wealthy pensioner indeed.

As for a line where inflation is too high that's a matter for debate. Inflation is not inherently bad. But pay freezes tend to be.

 

[Audioboxer]

If anyone wants to see how antsy someone can get around Scottish independence look to good ole Evan Davis. He routinely gets flustered around it, jumping in, changing his body language and getting twitchy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsI-AESUds4

Just been catching up a bit on Blackford. He seems okay, a bit like Robertson. I had missed this as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlHSgJ_Ei8U Always funny when the house of commons empties when an SNP speaker stands up lol.

 

[Dougald]

You guys aren't joking about private sector mobility leading to massive pay raises. A friend of mine got a 40% raise by moving company! (From Yorkshire to London mind but still)

It's the only way to beat or even keep up with inflation.

Which sucks because I love my current job, but every year things get slightly harder to pay for, so I'm going to have to switch soon

 

[QuicheFontaine]

iunno. 2% is target. 1-3% is inside target bounds. So 3%+ is high. "really high" is arbitrary but, like, 4% seems as good a number as any. That's supposing you agreed with a 2% target to begin with.

It's one of those 'how many pieces of sand before you have a pile' questions. It's also relative. 2% inflation is high when your nominal pay is frozen!

Thanks! Do you have a google alert for posts in this thread btw? You turned up suspiciously quickly.

While we're talking about economics, Carney was on the radio again this morning harping on as usual. Apparently the Bank of England wants people to borrow less. Maybe increase interest rates jerkface?

Think of it this way, if inflation is higher than how much your earnings have increased in that period then your income has decreased in real terms. For public sector workers after the 1% freeze that means they have seen significant decline on their wages since 2011 when it topped 3.8% 2015 was an exception and would allow them to make more but we are looking at a minimum of about 2.7% this year at this rate. Target for the BOE is 2% I think. But it all depends.

Of course one should note that there is more than one estimate for inflation and the choice of one's metrics would alter their view somewhat. It's also not reflected 1:1 on all goods. Housing for instance especially in London increases in value faster than inflation, and if one chose Fredos as one's inflation index one would be a very wealthy pensioner indeed.

As for a line where inflation is too high that's a matter for debate. Inflation is not inherently bad. But pay freezes tend to be.

Well yeah that makes sense. This public sector workers could always leave if they're not happy (I did lol). I always thought the low pay was balanced by having a job for life and being basically unsackable.

 

[Theonik]

It's the only way to beat or even keep up with inflation.

Which sucks because I love my current job, but every year things get slightly harder to pay for, so I'm going to have to switch soon

Tis' sad but it's how this world works. Companies don't tend to value their employees. They simply fear churn. The best your employer will ever treat you is usually when they hire you. Which also goes for your new prospective employer. Ultimately one needs to look after one's self.

Well yeah that makes sense. This public sector workers could always leave if they're not happy (I did lol). I always thought the low pay was balanced by having a job for life and being basically unsackable.

It's not all that simple! Low public sector pay negatively impacts the private sector by applying a negative pressure on wages.

 

[Mr Git]

It's more an issue of inflation being really high. Most people might get 1-2% raise a year to account for inflation in the private sector but inflation in 2012 was 3%+

You do get more job mobility in the private sector too though that means you can get nice jumps of 20%+ by jumping companies etc.

Compared to people in the NHS either fighting for their jobs through interviews or having to go to even lower band jobs because their ward has been shut down.

Well yeah that makes sense. This public sector workers could always leave if they're not happy (I did lol). I always thought the low pay was balanced by having a job for life and being basically unsackable.

'being unsackable' is a bit of a myth when it comes to the NHS. Some people are definitely teflon coated (i.e. managers) but when jobs are moved around as things are closed it's definitely not the case. Seen many in the position above where they literally fight tooth and nail to keep a position anywhere.

 

[*Splinter]

Oh yeah, I agree with you there. (You may have mixed up my stance with the 21+ guy, because I quoted you for the information link.)

It is a tricky question though, where you put the voting age. You of course have to ask yourself how mature you think someone should be before being able to vote, and then have to use some kind of statistical method to determine where you have an acceptable fraction of people hitting that maturity requirement, while having some kind of upper limit representing legal maturity. And then there should be some kind of bypass mechanism - for example, if you're 17 and at university, you should probably be able to vote. (The uni has already deemed you as mature enough to study, for example.)

I'd like to see the voting age lowered to 16 so that there is some overlap between full time / compulsory education and being able to vote. You'd gain the opportunity to present voting and politics in general in a classroom setting as something that is immediately relevant, which I think (without having seen any evidence to support) would greatly improve turnout and political engagement amongst the youth.

I assume a downside to this idea is it could give teachers a... dangerous(?) level of influence over how young people vote, but I don't think that is an unsolvable problem.

I think 16-17 year olds who have some structured teaching on politics and the importance of voting would be far far more informed than your average voter... and quite frankly they couldn't be much less informed even if it were never touched in schools at all.


Furthermore I feel that "maturity" is a poor argument against lowering the voting age. It's too subjective, as well as variable from one person to another. There are already plenty of voters drawing cocks on there ballot paper, that's quite a low bar to clear.

 

[Theonik]

Compared to people in the NHS either fighting for their jobs through interviews or having to go to even lower band jobs because their ward has been shut down.

?

 

[Mr Git]

?

Was pointing towards the payrises (for jumping) and a general lack of payfreezes. Some people will still moan about nurses or the public sector though.

 

[sammex]

Labour Queens speech amendment on public sector pay... defeated 309-323

 

[Goodlife]

So there we go, 1bn buys you the ability to vote down giving public sector workers a sensible payrise

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Labour Queens speech amendment on public sector pay... defeated 309-323

Just out of interest. It would still be illegal if I personally went around the country breaking the nose of every Tory voter I came across, right?

 

[StayDead]

Labour Queens speech amendment on public sector pay... defeated 309-323

Damn, so close.

Any Tory rebels?

 

[Uzzy]

So there we go, 1bn buys you the ability to vote down giving public sector workers a sensible payrise

There's no magic money trees, after all.

 

[Hazzuh]

Damn, so close.

Any Tory rebels?

With those numbers, no.

 

[Theonik]

With those numbers, no.

They indicate about 5 DUP or Tory abstentions though.

 

[Beefy]

Getting ready for the strikes and protests.

 

[Rodelero]

No surprise at all, but at least it draws a direct line between the Conservatives and continued austerity, which is all you could realistically hope for.

 

[D4Danger]

With those numbers, no.

Well at least we can end the myth of the moderate Tory. Party over everything.

 

[sammex]

There you go.

 

[Theonik]

There you go.

5 Conservative abstentions and 6 labour ones. Forgot to count In, PC, and Green in my previous estimate.

 

[StayDead]

God forbid the public sector get more money. Meanwhile let's increase the MPs wages because they need it more!

 

[avaya]

Well at least we can end the myth of the moderate Tory. Party over everything.

they are basically like the GOP.

 

[D4Danger]

The first thing the DUP do after being gifted billions in public funds is vote against public sector workers

I fucking dare someone to defend that.

 

[Theonik]

The first thing the DUP do after being gifted billions in public funds is vote against public sector workers

I fucking dare someone to defend that.

Well they did sign a deal for that £1bn. If the queen's speech is amended they don't get paid.
Also fairly easy for the whip if only 10MPs are in the house.

 

[Audioboxer]

There you go.

I again echo to the new Scottish Tories, please consider voting Labour next time. Those 12 seats given to the Conservatives could've helped (I say that as I know there are plently of soft-Tories up here now).

For the foreseeable future the UK is probably going to be propped up by alliance based Governments. If you vote Tory you get Tory, regardless of your tactical intentions.

 

[hohoXD123]

Hunt is pressing his point that Labour want to use the NHS “as a political football” and as a way to “milk votes”. He calls the “Conservative party the party of the NHS”.

Oh fuck off. He's the most dangerous politician when it comes to the NHS, pisses me off every time I see him wearing that NHS badge.

 

[cyberheater]

Okay. I've come to accept it. We're stuck with the Tories.

 

[Cronen]

Fuck the Tories.

Fuck the DUP.

 

[Beefy]

Is there a better place to see what MP's voted for then Workforyou?

 

[Audioboxer]

Yaaas an Orange Walk this weekend to celebrate Tory Scotland

Several major city centre streets are set to be closed this weekend as the Orange Walk prepares to march through Glasgow.

The routes will be shut off on Saturday, July 1 from 9am until 4pm.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ge_Walk___what_you_need_to_know/?ref=mrb&lp=3

Ruth! Ruth! Ruth!

Not that those Scots voters who had placed their cross by the Conservatives were left feeling out in the cold. They could warm themselves with the notion, oft repeated by Ms Davidson, that they had stood up to the SNP and defeated all plans for a second independence referendum They had taken back control, but in a good, non-Boris and Farage way. Theresa May’s narrow victory looked like it could work in Scottish voters’ favour. It was the baker’s dozen of Scottish Tories, making up for losses in England, that had kept her in business. That had to count for something.

Alas, no. A better offer came along in the shape of the DUP and its 10 MPs. These Dr Nos will say yes to the Budget, the Queen’s Speech, Brexit legislation and boosts to security, and all for the bargain price of £1 billion. The extra cash will put spending per head in Northern Ireland at £14,263, compared to £13,054 in Scotland, £12,531 in Wales, and £11,297 in England.

It would perhaps be harsh to say that voting Tory in Scotland has turned out, like the vice-presidency of the US, to be not worth a bucket of warm spit, but it is definitely beginning to look like the equivalent of buying a “solid gold watch” from a seaside auctioneer. Stopped working five minutes after you bought it, mate? Turned your wrist as green as Patrick Harvie, love? We would care, but we’ve pocketed the money and scarpered to Westminster. Take it up with trading standards. I think you’ll find any bargain with a politician comes with a dirty great “caveat emptor” warning.

But Ms Davidson will need all the luck of the Irish in making those defences stand up in Scotland. Impressions are everything in politics and most people will regard Mrs May as a weak, misguided, selfish leader who has bought the support of the DUP so that she can stay in Downing Street. Everything else, including a souring of relations between the nations of the UK, the effect on power sharing in Northern Ireland, and the sheer jaw-clattering unfairness of such a deal, are of secondary consideration. What price principle? One billion will do nicely, thank you.

So there you have it, Ms Davidson. You can tell those “loyal Scots” mentioned by Lord Heseltine that your efforts to stymie Scottish nationalism have been grossly, perhaps fatally, undermined by your UK leader’s need to contain the English nationalist wing of your own party. What a swell time you will have doing that.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...been_taken_for_a_mug_by_her_boss_Theresa_May/

Ruth?... You there?

 

[Ravensmash]

They indicate about 5 DUP or Tory abstentions though.

Anyone got the list of absent MPs, couldnt find it myself?

 

[Heine]

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/ lists who voted 'for' and 'against'.

Naturally, Jeremy Hunt voted against the amendment... about 20 minutes after claiming "the Conservative party is the party of the NHS". Fuck me, he could at least try give the illusion he supports our health sector.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

Okay. I've come to accept it. We're stuck with the Tories.

Blame Scotland.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

There's more voting yet to come. Very unlikely anything will come of it, though.

 

[Audioboxer]

Blame Scotland.

Royal_Phalanx
Blame Scotland.
(Today, 08:21 PM)

Mods, I approve of this message.

Spoiler

At least until we have a Labour majority/coalition government... in 2070.

 

[The Cowboy]

As a public sector worker, I just want to say - fuck anyone who voted no to a pay increase for the public sector (and anyone who is ok with it).

I just want to slap every Tory voter, it's infuriating.