Namco on Tekken 7's input lag: "Unreal Engine 4 eats 3 - 4 frames"

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https://twitter.com/Harada_TEKKEN/status/882172004463398912

Ever since Noodalls confirmed that Tekken 7 on PS4 has nearly 8 frames of input lag there has been a lot of backlash among the fanbase. This was exacerbated by the fact that both the PC and XB1 versions have nearly 1.5 fewer frames of lag compared to the PS4 version that happens to be the tournament standard.

Eventually Namco commented on it and is attributing the state of Tekken 7 onto its use of Unreal Engine 4. This might be an issue considering Dragon Ball FighterZ also uses UE4.
 
That's.... quite a lot of input lag.

Wonder what's going on in the engine that there's roughly 60ms worth of lag built into it.
 
We had been picking up on the UE4+PS4 = more input lag thing after numerous games (SFV, Tekken 7, etc.) were having problems w/ it - it's nice to have official confirmation.
 
As I said in some of the other threads, DBFZ's beta will likely serve as a good point of reference compared to GGXrd (which runs UE3) come next month.

That being said, hopefully Epic comes forward to help out Capcom, Bandai Namco, & Arc System Works in mitigating some of the input delay for their respective UE4 games.
 
The UE4 source is literally open to modification from the smallest hobbyist to the largest company, so if this is true and a concern you'd think a fighting game of all things would merit some customization.

Unless the complaint is that the PS4 interface source is closed or something?
 
At this point, why not just shift to the X1 for these games? It seems to be a near universal problem with the PS4 and input lag.

meirl said:
I think it plays fine on Xbox One for me.
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X1 has about 1.5 less frames of input lag. Its a PS4/UE4 problem specifically to this level but all of the versions have some sort of input delay.
 
kadotsu said:
ArcSys managed 60FPS with UE3 on PS3, they'll manage to get the input lag down.
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To my knowledge, Arc System Works uses their own post-processing stack instead of using the native stack provided by Epic (which I believe Capcom & Bandai Namco use). And as you said, GGXrd uses UE3, not UE4. However, DBFZ uses UE4, hence my point of comparing it to GGXrd in my previous post.

Blizzard said:
The UE4 source is literally open to modification from the smallest hobbyist to the largest company, so if this is true and a concern you'd think a fighting game of all things would merit some customization.

Unless the complaint is that the PS4 interface source is closed or something?
Click to expand...
Apparently the PS4 adds one extra frame of delay compared to the PC versions of UE4 games. You could cut down the delay by turning off V-Sync, but that could potentially result in screen-tearing (like the XB1 version of the MvCI story demo).

MegaPanda said:
Doesn't SFV use UE4 too? Maybe there really is something related to the engine
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Correct
 
Laiza said:
That's.... quite a lot of input lag.

Wonder what's going on in the engine that there's roughly 60ms worth of lag built into it.
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I think Epic should just switch from UE4 to UE4, I hear it fixes all of your problems ;).

...

Seriously though, for big budget games the investment required in customising it to your exact needs is not trivial and some devs are getting a bit burned. High input latency in a fast impulse fighter is quite bad for the product.
 
Neoxon said:
To my knowledge, Arc System Works uses their own post-processing stack instead of using the native stack provided by Epic (which I believe Capcom & Bandai Namco use).


Apparently the PS4 adds one extra frame of delay compared to the PC versions of UE4 games. You could cut down the delay by turning off V-Sync, but that could potentially result in screen-tearing (like the XB1 version of the MvCI story demo).


Correct
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Oh rendering lag, I could see that being harder for in-house people to rework. Good point.
 
Vena said:
At this point, why not just shift to the X1 for these games? It seems to be a near universal problem with the PS4 and input lag.



X1 has about 1.5 less frames of input lag. Its a PS4/UE4 problem specifically to this level but all of the versions have some sort of input delay.
Click to expand...

Don't think a 1.5 frame differential is enough to justify having multiple console setups to run the different games as opposed to just having them on PS4.
 
Vena said:
At this point, why not just shift to the X1 for these games? It seems to be a near universal problem with the PS4 and input lag.



X1 has about 1.5 less frames of input lag. Its a PS4/UE4 problem specifically to this level but all of the versions have some sort of input delay.
Click to expand...
If I had to guess, PS4 already has 3 major fighting games being console exclusive to it (SFV, KoFXIV, & GGXrd). And with Sony sponsoring both the Capcom Pro Tour & the Injustice 2 Championship Series, it's likely easier to stick with the PS4 set-ups that TOs already have.

Nephtes said:
As others have stated...
I wonder too if this is why SFV feels laggier than SFIV...
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It's most likely the case. SFIV ran on Dimps' own proprietary engine.
 
They're still working on a patch right? Because even at 4 bars I'm dropping combos that I normally wouldn't so the delay is noticeable.
 
Its great to see Japanese devs finding a good engine to work with but it's also a shame that they are no longer working on their own engines.
 
Primethius said:
Don't think a 1.5 frame differential is enough to justify having multiple console setups to run the different games as opposed to just having them on PS4.
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The upcoming patch is supposed to reduce the input lag anyway.

And the difference between X1 and PS4 is 0.9-1.0 frames according to noodall
 
Primethius said:
Don't think a 1.5 frame differential is enough to justify having multiple console setups to run the different games as opposed to just having them on PS4.
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I mean, 1.5 frames is a fairly large delta on top of a fairly large delay to begin with. Making the delay longer only makes it worse for the competitor (hence all the outcry).

Neoxon said:
If I had to guess, PS4 already has 3 major fighting games being console exclusive to it (SFV, KoFXIV, & GGXrd). And with Sony sponsoring both the Capcom Pro Tour & the Injustice 2 Championship Series, it's likely easier to stick with the PS4 set-ups that TOs already have.
Click to expand...

Let them play those games on the PS4, move everything else that can benefit from lower input lag to X1 or PC. I don't know why you'd make your gameplay/competitive elements *worse* in such tight, execution heavy games if you had an option not to do so. Sure its easier but the point is to have the best experience and competition.

Or stop making "bad" PS4 versions of the games.

If Armada can go through tens of hundreds of controllers to find the most input accurate Gamecube controllers, TOs can find the best set-ups to let him utilize his capabilities. (This is just an example, we regularly go through monitor/TV input lag tests and other checks to make sure players have the best experience for the best competitive gameplay, the console should be no exception.)
 
Neoxon said:
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I recall hearing that the PS4 versions of UE4 games inherently add an extra frame of delay compared to the PC version.


My guess, V-Sync coupled with rendering lag.
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Yes, this is a noticeable pattern w/ UE4 games at this point- the PC version is always running better than the PS4 version.
 
Looking forward to seeing Tim Sweeney's response on this. This kind of direct callout by a big developer is bad for their engine sales.
 
If there's any truth to this, it's worth noting that Street Fighter 5 is also on UE4 and also suffered from a massive "8 frames of lag" backlash. Capcom later patched and got the lag down to around 5.5 frames, I believe.
 
Vena said:
I mean, 1.5 frames is a fairly large delta on top of a fairly large delay to begin with. Making the delay longer only makes it worse for the competitor (hence all the outcry).



Let them play those games on the PS4, move everything else that can benefit from lower input lag to X1 or PC. I don't know why you'd make your gameplay/competitive elements *worse* in such tight, execution heavy games if you had an option not to do so. Sure its easier but the point is to have the best experience and competition.

Or stop making "bad" PS4 versions of the games.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that the difference isn't big but big enough to justify added costs for a variety of tournaments? I don't think it's that big.

When SFV stops being the main game for a variety of tournaments, maybe TOs will have an incentive to add XB1s to the mix. But given that KI is basically a non-thing, SFV is the biggest game at most tourneys, the frame difference just doesn't warrant the cost increase.

Otherwise, they'd already have PCs setup if best versions were a concern. But most pros just adapt to the slightly higher frame delay of console versions.
 
Vena said:
I mean, 1.5 frames is a fairly large delta on top of a fairly large delay to begin with. Making the delay longer only makes it worse for the competitor (hence all the outcry).



Let them play those games on the PS4, move everything else that can benefit from lower input lag to X1 or PC. I don't know why you'd make your gameplay/competitive elements *worse* in such tight, execution heavy games if you had an option not to do so. Sure its easier but the point is to have the best experience and competition.

Or stop making "bad" PS4 versions of the games.

If Armada can go through tens of hundreds of controllers to find the most input accurate Gamecube controllers, TOs can find the best set-ups to let him utilize his capabilities. (This is just an example, we regularly go through monitor/TV input lag tests and other checks to make sure players have the best experience for the best competitive gameplay, the console should be no exception.)
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FGC is poverty! Never forget!
 
Freshmaker said:
You can turn vsync off.
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This doesn't explain the difference between XB1 and PS4. Something weird is definitely going on with the game on all platforms lag-wise, even offline, but PS4 version is apparently really bad on the Pro. Glad I went with PC, even at my odd night shift hours I've still always been able to find a match at 4 bars. It's not too bad but it doesn't feel as smooth as T6 or TTT2 imo.
 
Strange. You'd think an engine with FPS roots would have minimal lag out of the box.
 
Vena said:
Let them play those games on the PS4, move everything else that can benefit from lower input lag to X1 or PC. I don't know why you'd make your gameplay/competitive elements *worse* in such tight, execution heavy games if you had an option not to do so. Sure its easier but the point is to have the best experience and competition.

Or stop making "bad" PS4 versions of the games.

If Armada can go through tens of hundreds of controllers to find the most input accurate Gamecube controllers, TOs can find the best set-ups to let him utilize his capabilities. (This is just an example, we regularly go through monitor/TV input lag tests and other checks to make sure players have the best experience for the best competitive gameplay, the console should be no exception.)
Click to expand...

"TOs" are usually individuals running non-profit events with no sponsorship and player provided setups. It's completely unreasonable to expect them to switch to a different console, or especially PC, if all the other games run on PS4. There's no pool of money for them to pull from to do this.

Namco improving the situation is a much better outcome.
 
pretty done said:
This doesn't explain the difference between XB1 and PS4. Something weird is definitely going on with the game on all platforms lag-wise, even offline, but PS4 version is apparently really bad on the Pro. Glad I went with PC, even at my odd night shift hours I've still always been able to find a match at 4 bars. It's not too bad but it doesn't feel as smooth as T6 or TTT2 imo.
Click to expand...
XB1 versions of UE4 fighting games usually have adaptive V-Sync, as shown in the MvCI demo comparison done by Digital Foundry (hence the screen-tearing).
 
Was Tekken 6 played on 360s, at tournaments? Or was it played on PS3, since that was the better version? If not, then why not put Tekken 7 on BOne, since it is the better one?
 
pretty done said:
This doesn't explain the difference between XB1 and PS4. Something weird is definitely going on with the game on all platforms lag-wise, even offline, but PS4 version is apparently really bad on the Pro. Glad I went with PC, even at my odd night shift hours I've still always been able to find a match at 4 bars. It's not too bad but it doesn't feel as smooth as T6 or TTT2 imo.
Click to expand...
The XB1 version has an adaptive V-Sync, so that extra tearing probably gives it the one frame advantage.
 
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