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John McCain has Brain Cancer

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rambis said:
To some in this nation, "debt we pass to our children and grandchildren" is a huge issue. More important than healthcare which alot of people still wish wasn't mandatory. Again you may not necessarily agree but that doesn't necessarily make the other side's argument evil.
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i think letting vast swathes of america die due to lack of adequate healthcare is pretty fuckin evil dude, like objectively letting millions die is pretty evil from most viewpoints
 
rambis said:
To some in this nation, "debt we pass to our children and grandchildren" is a huge issue. More important than healthcare which alot of people still wish wasn't mandatory. Again you may not necessarily agree but that doesn't necessarily make the other side's argument evil.
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Then at best shows a lack of education and understanding of how things work. A deficit is a macroeconomic issue with little to no bearing on an everyday citizen.

And yeah I'd put prioritizing money over basic service to help ensure a level of human decency for all citizens and healthcare as quite cold and borderline evil.
 
rambis said:
To some in this nation, "debt we pass to our children and grandchildren" is a huge issue. More important than healthcare which alot of people still wish wasn't mandatory. Again you may not necessarily agree but that doesn't necessarily make the other side's argument evil.
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As long as the debt comes from waging unnecessary wars, massive tax breaks to the 0.1% and telling women they can't have abortions, it's a-ok!
 
jay said:
So you share your thoughts with random people despite having no interest what they may think of them or how they may react. This is more convincing if you don't register an account or use the Submit Reply button. Or respond to people who quote you.
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I obviously post to discuss things, are you being obtuse?
 
rambis said:
To some in this nation, "debt we pass to our children and grandchildren" is a huge issue. More important than healthcare which alot of people still wish wasn't mandatory. Again you may not necessarily agree but that doesn't necessarily make the other side's argument evil.
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This is not any side's argument. The Republican plans raise the deficit by cutting taxes. The deficit is and always has been a tool to argue for policy someone likes.

rambis said:
I obviously post to discuss things, are you being obtuse?
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Your delineation between objective discussion and peoples emotional state is questionable. You want other people to share their opinions but don't think people should tell others how they feel, and there is never overlap between these things?
 
jay said:
This is not any side's argument. The Republican plans raise the deficit by cutting taxes. The deficit is and always has been a tool to argue for policy someone likes.
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I don't think the republicans themselves even agree on what their plan should be.

Hierophant said:
i think letting vast swathes of america die due to lack of adequate healthcare is pretty fuckin evil dude, like objectively letting millions die is pretty evil from most viewpoints
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With this logic how is anything other than full single payer not evil?


Your delineation between objective discussion and peoples emotional state is questionable. You want other people to share their opinions but don't think people should tell others how they feel, and there is never overlap between these things?
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When did I say this? People can post whatever they want for all I care. You're either being obtuse or you lack comprehension.
 
Hierophant said:
i think letting vast swathes of america die due to lack of adequate healthcare is pretty fuckin evil dude, like objectively letting millions die is pretty evil from most viewpoints
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It's not evil; it's merely a viewpoint that promotes the importance of the national debt over human lives. /s
 
Steejee said:
If he's true to Conservative form, he'll come out in favor of protecting health insurance now that it personally impacts him.
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True GOP form is "Fuck you, I've got mine", don't think that motto is going to change for any GOP member(including McCain) regardless of the outcome of McCain's health problems.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
You act like he was personally responsible for that fiasco. Give me a break. There's definitely reasons to dislike McCain especially the hypocrisy in his stance on healthcare but Vietnam? Nah.
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You said you wanted to thank him for his service, I'm saying his service was nothing to be thankful for, especially not for the people he was bombing. He wasn't in charge but he still participated, even requesting to be assigned to that theatre. "Just following orders" has never been a legitimate defence for mass murder, and that's what the Vietnam bombing campaigns were.

You might inherently respect American troops but there's a lot of people outside your borders who have very good reasons to feel very differently, and that doesn't make them edgelords

EDIT: and afterwards, did he ever reflect? Did he ever apologise? Or did he say "I'll hate the gooks for as long as I live" and continue to enthusiastically support American aggression abroad?
 
Can someone tell me why the cancer he has is particularly very deadly and anyone with it has a low chance of survival? Also, how can it be that you find out you have cancer when it's at stage IV?
 
I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone but I don't have the right to say to someone who loses a person who died due to the health care system to express empathy or sympathy for Mccain. He chose to be a politician, he chose to be a senator and was in a position to make choices of extreme influence. He has to take responsibility for that, and as someone said, getting sick doesn't clear the slate.

Personally, I wish everyone could get the health coverage they deserve, Mccain included. But, I'm in no position to tell someone you're morally reprehensible because the health care system has scarred you or a family member. At the end of the day, they aren't drafting legislation or are senators, so their words are just that, frustration due to a shitty health care system.
 
Hierophant said:
anything other than full single payer is evil
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This makes no sense to me. Single payer is gaining more support but still its still only a 60/40 split in favor of. So you're saying almost half the country is evil because they don't support full single payer? Is that rational in any way?
 
rambis said:
To some in this nation, "debt we pass to our children and grandchildren" is a huge issue. More important than healthcare which alot of people still wish wasn't mandatory. Again you may not necessarily agree but that doesn't necessarily make the other side's argument evil.
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No, denying basis healthcare to millions of people based out of some spiteful backwards libertarian agenda is most definitely the definition of evil. Come on man!
 
rambis said:
This makes no sense to me. Single payer is gaining more support but still its still only a 60/40 split in favor of. So you're saying almost half the country is evil because they don't support full single payer? Is that rational in any way?
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Evil ideas having widespread popular support isn't exactly outlandish or unprecedented.
 
rambis said:
This makes no sense to me. Single payer is gaining more support but still its still only a 60/40 split in favor of. So you're saying almost half the country is evil because they don't support full single payer? Is that rational in any way?
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ignorant about what it is due to the demonisation of socialist policies over the course of the century in america or evil for showing a lack of compassion for their fellow man in not wanting to help them if they get sick
 
rambis said:
This makes no sense to me. Single payer is gaining more support but still its still only a 60/40 split in favor of. So you're saying almost half the country is evil because they don't support full single payer? Is that rational in any way?
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It's not about one or the other, or strict political beliefs, it's that McCain is one of several people, right now, with the power to strip millions of Americans, right now, of Health care they so desperately rely on, and is choosing to exercise that power, with no back up plan in sight, without offering a semblance of recourse for the poor/sick people who will lose healthcare, without waiting for this fantastic "replacement plan" they keep crowing about, and against the findings of the CBO, all for what? A political win?
 
rambis said:
This makes no sense to me. Single payer is gaining more support but still its still only a 60/40 split in favor of. So you're saying almost half the country is evil because they don't support full single payer? Is that rational in any way?
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Yes, that's how we view them in Europe.
 
Hierophant said:
ignorant about what it is due to the demonisation of socialist policies over the course of the century in america or evil for showing a lack of compassion for their fellow man in not wanting to help them if they get sick
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Eh this is irrational to me. I believe there is a middle ground that helps make sure everyone in the nation is covered without the government necessarily footing the entire bill. I don't think seeking this middle ground is evil.
Ninja Scooter said:
It's not about one or the other, or strict political beliefs, it's that McCain is one of several people, right now, with the power to strip millions of Americans, right now, of Health care they so desperately rely on, and is choosing to exercise that power, with no back up plan in sight, without offering a semblance of recourse for the poor/sick people who will lose healthcare, without waiting for this fantastic "replacement plan" they keep crowing about, and against the findings of the CBO, all for what? A political win?
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So this brings me back to my original point. Is there evidence to suggest that McCain isn't negotiating health care in good faith?
Arthr2ShdsJcksn said:
If you need guidance in the right way to respond to news like this about a person who has political views opposite of yours, just look to Obama.
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Obama proves so frequently how he was too good for us.
 
It's hilarious that people are upset that this thread isn't just 3 pages of "thoughts and prayers" for a guy who demonstrably doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself and would actually enable legislation that would harm their lives.
 
Maiden Voyage said:
I'm honestly shocked at how toxic some of the frequent posters on this site are when it comes to politicians they disagree with.
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Were you here during the primaries? Bernie was made to be the literal devil incarnate, lol. But in general this is McCain we are talking about, not some crazy foreign dictator, he has done more service to America than most of us ever will. People should be free to say whatever they want, its just I expected better than people I otherwise find to be reasonable engaging in such partisan hackery.
 
excelsiorlef said:
As always folks try to reduce core fundamental atrocity as simple disagreement.
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There was a person I was in a discussion with that explicitly wished pain and misery upon McCain.

Whatever your thoughts are on healthcare in the US, we can work on improving it without wishing ill of those that do not agree on our solution to the problem.
 
McCain needs warm thoughts? What the fuck does that mean? He needs quality health care. Health care that, given his enormous wealth and privilege, he's no doubt getting. Health care that he doesn't think a large amount of Americans deserve simply because of their inability to pay.

Yay let's do some warm thoughts. While we're at it, let's encourage our democratic senators to get behind Republican healthcare reform efforts as a show of solidarity! Please... If you were diagnosed with brain cancer tomorrow and were struggling to afford treatment, these people wouldn't spare a warm piss, much less a thought, for you.
 
JustenP88 said:
McCain needs warm thoughts? What the fuck does that mean? He needs quality health care. Health care that, given his enormous wealth and privilege, he's no doubt getting. Health care that he doesn't think a large amount of Americans deserve simply because of their inability to pay.

Yay let's do some warm thoughts. While we're at it, let's encourage our democratic senators to get behind Republican healthcare reform efforts as a show of solidarity! Please... If you were diagnosed with brain cancer tomorrow and were struggling to afford treatment, these people wouldn't spare a warm piss, much less a thought, for you.
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rambis said:
This makes no sense to me. Single payer is gaining more support but still its still only a 60/40 split in favor of. So you're saying almost half the country is evil because they don't support full single payer? Is that rational in any way?
Click to expand...

In the United States, the demonetization of any and all socialist policies due to the Red Scare is still ingrained to this day. Are they evil because they don't support single payer? No. Truth is a lot of the lack the knowledge of how single payer work and only believes in the boogie man that the GOP gives them. This delusional fear is so great, some of them actually think medicare isn't socialized medicine, I'm not even joking.

6a00d83451bb2969e20120a5c02dda970c-800wi.jpg

medicare-keep-your-hands-off-my-medicare.jpg
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The real evil is, again, the GOP and conservative media continuing the demonetization of things like universal healthcare with fear and fake news so they can line their pockets. Universal Healthcare should be a human right, and in many civilized nations it is. Denying people access to healthcare is down right evil and shouldn't be tolerated.

Maiden Voyage said:
There was a person I was in a discussion with that explicitly wished pain and misery upon McCain.

Whatever your thoughts are on healthcare in the US, we can work on improving it without wishing ill of those that do not agree on our solution to the problem.
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Yeah, me, and I'm not taking that back. I'm not glad that this happened, but I frankly do not feel any different. You can see my piece on that a few pages back.
 
JustenP88 said:
McCain needs warm thoughts? What the fuck does that mean? He needs quality health care. Health care that, given his enormous wealth and privilege, he's no doubt getting. Health care that he doesn't think a large amount of Americans deserve simply because of their inability to pay.

Yay let's do some warm thoughts. While we're at it, let's encourage our democratic senators to get behind Republican healthcare reform efforts as a show of solidarity! Please... If you were diagnosed with brain cancer tomorrow and were struggling to afford treatment, these people wouldn't spare a warm piss, much less a thought, for you.
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Where has he said or implied this? I keep asking.
 
Maiden Voyage said:
There was a person I was in a discussion with that explicitly wished pain and misery upon McCain.

Whatever your thoughts are on healthcare in the US, we can work on improving it without wishing ill of those that do not agree on our solution to the problem.
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His solution is not far removed from can't afford it oh well....

That's not a solution.
 
I think we can all agree that short term, we can definitely offer empathy.

But long term... if or when he gets better, we want to know if he is going to be the same person as he was before with regards to healthcare, given his position in politics. And there's skepticism that he may very well still be the same person, as he has been sick before but we've forgotten about it then.

I mean, look at Dick Cheney - dude is still a prick even after undertaking that risky procedure to get a new heart.
 
Azzanadra said:
Were you here during the primaries? Bernie was made to be the literal devil incarnate, lol. But in general this is McCain we are talking about, not some crazy foreign dictator, he has done more service to America than most of us ever will. People should be free to say whatever they want, its just I expected better than people I otherwise find to be reasonable engaging in such partisan hackery.
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"Partisan hackery" is now pointing out that he's not a good person instead of trying to whitewash his legacy away because now he has cancer? Ok
 
Azzanadra said:
Were you here during the primaries? Bernie was made to be the literal devil incarnate, lol. But in general this is McCain we are talking about, not some crazy foreign dictator, he has done more service to America than most of us ever will. People should be free to say whatever they want, its just I expected better than people I otherwise find to be reasonable engaging in such partisan hackery.
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Since Evilore posted this, I have been more willing to discuss my political opinions on Gaf. I really hope more moderates and right leaning posters feel the same. It would be nice to engage in an honest discussion without fear of banning.
 
Health Care:
McCain missed a vote in 2007 on a rejected amendment to improve rural access to health care services by reducing the liability system associated with obstetrical and gynecological services (S. Amdt. 3673) [source: U.S. Senate].

In 2007, McCain voted no on the unsuccessful bill (H.R. 976) to fund the State Children Health Insurance Program at $45 billion through 2011 by increasing the tobacco tax [source: Project Vote Smart].

McCain voted in 2005 against S. Amdt. 2259, which would have increased funding for the AIDS Drug Assistance Program by $74 million [source: Project Vote Smart].
In 2004, McCain voted against rejected S. Amdt. 2803, which called for providing $60 billion over five years for public and private health care coverage by repealing Bush tax cuts [source: U.S. Senate].

In 2003, McCain voted against S. Amdt. 349, which proposed a $5,000 tax credit for expenses related to ill Americans' long-term or chronic care needs [source: U.S. Senate].
He voted against waiving S. Amdt. 3852 in 2000, which grants tax credits to small business owners for employee health insurance coverage [source: U.S. Senate].

In 1999, McCain voted for Patient's Bill of Rights in relation to health care coverage (S. Amdt. 1242 [source: U.S. Senate] and S. Amdt. 1344) [source: U.S. Senate].

McCain voted against S. Amdt. 5190 in 1996, which provided benefits for children of Vietnam veterans born with spina bifida, but would have required people seeking compensation for injury or death from VA care to first prove fault [source: U.S. Senate].

He voted against S. Amdt. 5194 in 1996, which provides health care coverage be extended to mental illness [source: U.S. Senate].
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What a maverick....

http://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/john-mccain5.htm
 
Ms.Galaxy said:
Yeah, me, and I'm not taking that back. I'm not glad that this happened, but I frankly do not feel any different. You can see my piece on that a few pages back.
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I just read it, thank you for pointing me in that direction. I'm sorry you went through that. It's abhorrent. If you ever need someone to talk to or to just listen, please send me a PM.
 
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