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John McCain has Brain Cancer

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platocplx said:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news...y-got-married-then-everything-changed-6433344

here is confirmation of it.

DFJz4J6UIAA-G65.jpg
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Fuck McCain

Karma wins again bitch
 
I don't have much nice things to say due to this man's voting record.

His family will not have to worry about financial ruin.

EDIT: Just saw and read what that couple went through. Yeah, I have nothing nice to say about this at all.
 
Morrigan Stark said:
There's no such thing, but hey, if you have a concrete solution for this magic middle ground, do share it with the rest of the world, yes? [/quote}

Hmm? The magic middle ground between government footing the entire bill and letting people die is having those who can afford it pat and subsidizing the poor. Or in other words, something very much like Obamacare. Which can very easily get to universal coverage with a mandate with teeth and more generous subsidies.

Anyway, I've got the kind of pre-existing condition such that I'd be screwed if BCRA had become the law of the land. I don't relish in Mccain's suffering, and whatever happens, i hope it's painless. Suffering is never a good thing.

...But if removing him from negotiations and stalling the vote for a day or two made the passage of the bill even a minuscule fraction of a percentage point less likely, this cancer saved more lives than it killed. So I can't say I'm too broken up about it.
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E-Cat said:
But you see, this is the problem: you are either being wantonly obtuse or ignorant.

There can never be a guarantee that an insurance company will pay for your health care. Why? The profit motive. Because what you're doing is, essentially, leaving your life up to the whims of a private, price-gouging entity that has a financial incentive to weasel out of paying for your health care. And in the free market economy, whatever you incent, will happen.
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What? Yes, there can be. Its called regulation. You know, the entire premise of the ACA?

excelsiorlef said:
The ACA was middle ground at best... they all voted against middle ground.
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Yes, as I said before, a middle ground is the current law of the land.

Again, voting against a bill does not mean you are completely against the premise of the bill. Bills get argued on a point by point basis but voted on as a whole. Similar to today, every Repub has ran on repealing Obamacare since 2010, yet they cannot agree on individual points thus killing the entire effort. Do you think they don't want to repeal Obamacare?
 
Hierophant said:
the fact it takes a personal anecdote like this to get people to reconsider their stance is pretty crappy tbh when removing healthcare would create millions of these personal anecdotes
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Yet, it is probably the main reason why you still don't have universal health care in the US.
 
Hierophant said:
the fact it takes a personal anecdote like this to get people to reconsider their stance is pretty crappy tbh when removing healthcare would create millions of these personal anecdotes
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Yeah it's sad we have to make it this personal for people to fathom how this can be the future for most Americans. Especially when the top 5 killers of people in this country are all health related.
 
ElFly said:
I mean suuure, but he was only put in that position by bombing civilians so that kind of negates everything



oh yeah I forgot to thank mccain

thank you mccain for killing those poor vietnamese

you really did a solid to us all

dunno what politics have to do with thanking him for his service. his service did _nothing_ for you
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McCain's capture and subsequent imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi. McCain fractured both arms and a leg while he was being ejected from the aircraft, and he nearly drowned after he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake. Some North Vietnamese pulled him ashore, then others crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt and bayoneted him. McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hỏa Lò Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries. They beat and interrogated him to get information, and he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a high-ranking admiral. His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major newspapers.

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital and received marginal care. He had lost 50 pounds (23 kg), was in a chest cast, and his gray hair had turned as white as snow. McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi. In December 1967, McCain was placed into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live more than a week. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.

In mid-1968, John S. McCain Jr. was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and the North Vietnamese offered McCain early release because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes, and also to show other POWs that elite prisoners were willing to be treated preferentially. McCain turned down the offer; he would only accept repatriation if every man taken in before him was released as well. Such early release was prohibited by the POWs' interpretation of the military Code of Conduct: To prevent the enemy from using prisoners for propaganda, officers were to agree to be released in the order in which they were captured.
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-Wikipedia

I don't agree with his politics, but I respect the sacrifice he made during his service.
 
rambis said:
What? Yes, there can be. Its called regulation. You know, the entire premise of the ACA?


Yes, as I said before, a middle ground is the current law of the land.

Again, voting against a bill does not mean you are completely against the premise of the bill. Bills get argued on a point by point basis but voted on as a whole. Similar to today, every Repub has ran on repealing Obamacare since 2010, yet they cannot agree on individual points thus killing the entire effort. Do you think they don't want to repeal Obamacare?
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But everyone on the Republican side opposed the middle ground. What they can't agree on is how much to the right of "middle ground" they want to go.

Really the ultimate irony is that what the GOP can't agree on amongst themselves is just how evil to be.
 
E-Cat said:
Yet, it is probably the main reason why you still don't have universal health care in the US.
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Nope, employer subsidized health care is the reason. If people had to write a check each month that was roughly the size of a mortgage payment, we would already have single payer.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
I'm not gonna shit on a solider in vietnam for doing his duty. But whatever. Let's just disagree on that. Yea, I'd thank any soldier even when the suits make the wrong call to send them in harms way over bullshit.
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I wish your usual legitimate and righteous anger over agents of the American state murdering people extended to victims outside your borders
 
rambis said:
What? Yes, there can be. Its called regulation. You know, the entire premise of the ACA?
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ACA does not guarantee universal health care, though. Tens of millions of Americans still don't have insurance. And those who do can still end up in a medical bankruptcy.
 
TomWaitsForNoMan said:
I wish your usual legitimate and righteous anger over agents of the American state murdering people extended to victims outside your borders
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My anger is directed at the shitty politicians for Vietnam. Not the soldiers who didn't have the internet back them to keep them informed as we can be. Sorry if that's not sufficient to you.

I'm supposed to shit on every soldier that went to Iraq and Afghanistan as well?
 
E-Cat said:
ACA does not guarantee universal health care, though. Tens of millions of Americans still don't have insurance. And those who do can still end up in a medical bankruptcy.
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Oh don't worry John McCain's got your back if you go into bankruptcy because of dept

He voted for H.R. 333 in 2001, which made it more difficult to erase debt through bankruptcy [source: U.S. Senate].
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Ohhh wait....


Mammoth Jones said:
My anger is directed at the shitty politicians for Vietnam. Not the soldiers who didn't have the internet back them to keep them informed as we can be. Sorry if that's not sufficient to you.
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Ummm.... Vietnam was a massively protested war....
 
excelsiorlef said:
But everyone on the Republican side opposed the middle ground. What they can't agree on is how much to the right of "middle ground" they want to go.

Really the ultimate irony is that what the GOP can't agree on amongst themselves is just how evil to be.
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If its not full single payer and not fully privatized then it exists somewhere on the middle ground. Saying that a middle ground is mythical or impossible is a crock of shit.

E-Cat said:
ACA does not guarantee universal health care, though. Tens of millions of Americans still don't have insurance. And those who do can still end up in a medical bankruptcy.
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I never said it did. The point is that healthcare is indeed regulatable.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
I'm not gonna shit on a solider in vietnam for doing his duty. But whatever. Let's just disagree on that. Yea, I'd thank any soldier even when the suits make the wrong call to send them in harms way over bullshit.
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Same things for cops or its just cause the dead are Vietnamese?
 
lmao if we're going to get into personal anecdotes to make you feel more empathy, my family fuckin hates the united states because during the Vietnam war, the soldiers actually were a pack of murderers and rapists who killed and raped countless friends and family

so McCain's service actually means shit all to me
 
Maiden Voyage said:
-Wikipedia

I don't agree with his politics, but I respect the sacrifice he made during his service.
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A sacrifice that was the US's standard policy on how to deal with POW releases and only happened because his father was important.

He doesn't get a free pass to "I'm sorry you're dying"-land because he made a sacrifice that he and his fellow POWs felt was proper. That sacrifice does not outdo supporting policies that have lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. If anything, his steadfast support for hawkish policies, including the support of torture, in the face of his experience in Vietnam makes that support more appalling.
 
rambis said:
If its not full single payer and not fully privatized then it exists somewhere on the middle ground. Saying that a middle ground is mythical or impossible is a crock of shit.
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Why do you keep describing the ACA? Because what you described is the ACA. ACA is the middle ground... and they oppose it... You're acting like it is controversial to say that Republicans are bad on health care policy...

They also helped defeat the public option.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
My anger is directed at the shitty politicians for Vietnam. Not the soldiers who didn't have the internet back them to keep them informed as we can be. Sorry if that's not sufficient to you.

I'm supposed to shit on every soldier that went to Iraq and Afghanistan as well?
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You can blame the ones who gave the orders and created the system as well as those who pulled the trigger. People make the same excuses for police, foreign soldiers, abusers in other organisations, etc,

It's not like lack of internet back then meant people didn't know what was happening. The anti-war movement existed and publicised atrocities constantly.

And if someone deliberately asked to be posted to Iraq, took part in the Fallujah massacre, refused to admit that the Iraq War was wrong while calling Iraqis "hajji" or "sand n*****", and went on to advocate for more military aggression elsewhere, then yeah I hope you'd treat them with the contempt they deserved.
 
Rmagnus said:
Same things for cops or its just cause the dead are Vietnamese?
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And you've heard me say time and time again that there are SYSTEMIC issues that need to be fixed or the problem will persist. I stand by that statement. But if you want to bring up cops killing black people because you know I'm black and want to paint me as a hypocrite (which I think is a shitty thing to try and do but I'm not shocked by some of you) then apply that sentiment of mine as well: There are systemic issues. Do I see a regular cop walking down the street and hate his guts and think he's a piece of shit? How can I when I talk to a cop (buddy of mine) nearly every day. Same for a soldier.

excelsiorlef said:
And John McCain signed up willingly and wanted to go... and then, despite the horrors he suffered, decades later voted for torture interrogation techniques.... something tells me he wasn't just bloke who got conned into war by the man.
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I mean hate the man if you want. I disagree with his policy and ain't shocked some are saying it's karma. But whatever. Dude is dying. I'll put my pitchfork down and sharpen it for other battles. This is just gloating over a persons death.

TomWaitsForNoMan said:
You can blame the ones who gave the orders and created the system as well as those who pulled the trigger. You sound like an apologist for murderous cops, which like I said before is a shame
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You see what you just did? You took a subject that we weren't even discussing, dragged it in here and tried to pin me to it. That's called a straw man. Please do better in your discussion here. It's ok to disagree but trying to pin this sentiment on me is ridiculous and childish.

TomWaitsForNoMan said:
It's not like lack of internet back then meant people didn't know what was happening. The anti-war movement existed and publicised atrocities constantly.
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Every soldier in Vietnam is responsible. Gotcha.

TomWaitsForNoMan said:
And if someone deliberately asked to be posted to Iraq, took part in the Fallujah massacre, refused to admit that the Iraq War was wrong while calling Iraqis "hajji" or "sand n*****", and went on to advocate for more military aggression elsewhere, then yeah I hope you'd treat them with the contempt they deserved.
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What about the medics that went there. Or the support crew. Not everyone that served carried guns and gang raped civilians.
 
excelsiorlef said:


A former POW who voted in favor of waterboarding and other such torturous interrogation techniques no less.
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Stop spreading this lie. John McCain was an outspoken critic of torture during the Bush years and deserves credit for as much. This is the guy who introduced the Detainee Treatment Act. Not voting to apply the Army Field Manual to the CIA is not the same thing as voting in favor of torture.
 
Planx said:
A sacrifice that was the US's standard policy on how to deal with POW releases and only happened because his father was important and tried to skirt that standing US policy.

He doesn't get a free pass to "I'm sorry you're dying"-land because he made a sacrifice that he and his fellow POWs felt was proper. That sacrifice does not outdo supporting policies that have lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. If anything, his steadfast support for hawkish policies, including the support of torture, in the face of his experience in Vietnam makes that support more appalling.
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He did not have to go with SOP. He could have saved himself in that situation and I doubt many would have judged him for doing so.

I agree he doesn't get a free pass. I don't support his political agenda, either. I think it's worth discussing the positives and the negatives, not just one or the other.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Do I see a regular cop walking down the street and hate his guts and think he's a piece of shit? How can I when I talk to a cop (buddy of mine) nearly every day. Same for a soldier.
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I don't necessarily think they're pieces of shit, but I don't trust them, couldn't be friends with them, and would never ever thank them
 
Nasbin said:
Stop spreading this lie. John McCain was an outspoken critic of torture during the Bush years and deserves credit for as much. This is the guy who introduced the Detainee Treatment Act. Not voting to apply the Army Field Manual to the CIA is not the same thing as voting in favor of torture.
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You gave me a list of mostly statements and speeches...

I provided a vote record.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/05/john-mccains-spotty-record-on-torture/238842/
 
E-Cat said:
ACA does not guarantee universal health care, though. Tens of millions of Americans still don't have insurance. And those who do can still end up in a medical bankruptcy.
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That's only because the individual mandate got neutered and republicans convinced the Supreme Court to let states opt out of Medicaid expansion. ACA was designed to give universal coverage and a full version of it would.
 
TomWaitsForNoMan said:
I don't necessarily think they're pieces of shit, but I don't trust them, couldn't be friends with them, and would never ever thank them
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I thanked the cop that saved my life when I was a child. I am now obviously complicit in every police atrocity ever. If you can't see nuance... If you worldview is so static....

Well then that's you. I live in reality. It's not always as set as you're making it seem but whatever. Do you.
 
rambis said:
I never said it did. The point is that healthcare is indeed regulatable.
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And yet, premiums are higher than ever.

Yeah, your 'middle ground' universal health care is never going to happen. Not as long as the HMO and Big Pharma lobbyists continue writing their checks.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
And you've heard me say time and time again that there are SYSTEMIC issues that need to be fixed or the problem will persist. I stand by that statement. But if you want to bring up cops killing black people because you know I'm black and want to paint me as a hypocrite (which I think is a shitty thing to try and do but I'm not shocked by some of you) then apply that sentiment of mine as well: There are systemic issues. Do I see a regular cop walking down the street and hate his guts and think he's a piece of shit? How can I when I talk to a cop (buddy of mine) nearly every day. Same for a soldier.



I mean hate the man if you want. I disagree with his policy and ain't shocked some are saying it's karma. But whatever. Dude is dying. I'll put my pitchfork down and sharpen it for other battles. This is just gloating over a persons death.
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Systematic issues my ass, it's a systematic issue that he volunteered to go to another country to kill other people and some how you guys are thankful for it? Why cause Asian civilians don't mean shit? You can put your fork down and fight whatever battle you one but don't come and tell us what to feel or react. He isn't even dead and who is gloating? Worst i seen is fuck him, so take your strawman somewhere else.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
You see what you just did? You took a subject that we weren't even discussing, dragged it in here and tried to pin me to it. That's called a straw man. Please do better in your discussion here. It's ok to disagree but trying to pin this sentiment on me is ridiculous and childish.



Every soldier in Vietnam is responsible. Gotcha.



What about the medics that went there. Or the support crew. Not everyone that served carried guns and gang raped civilians.
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I edited my post while you were writing your reply because I thought it was unfair, my apologies. However I will say that I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that America's foreign murders are treated the same as its domestic ones. And I do regard McCain helping to massacre millions of Vietnamese as more damning than helping to reduce the healthcare available to Americans which seems to be the main problem people have with him, not that the latter isn't also an enormous crime.

And John McCain wasn't a medic, he was a volunteer who dropped napalm from the sky and remains unapologetic about it. I'm not going to thank him for that
 
Rmagnus said:
Systematic issues my ass, it's a systematic issue that he volunteered to go to another country to kill other people and some how you guys are thankful for it? Why cause Asian civilians don't mean shit? You can put your fork down and fight whatever battle you one but don't come and tell us what to feel or react. He isn't even dead and who is gloating? Worst i seen is fuck him, so take your strawman somewhere else.
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To be fair it was to fight Communism, it was not a cultural or race war or anything like that. If this was a grand conflict between good and evil, McCain was in the right side.

Anyways, this is sad to hear and I hope the man gets better.
 
Rmagnus said:
Systematic issues my ass, it's a systematic issue that he volunteered to go to another country to kill other people and some how you guys are thankful for it? Why cause Asian civilians don't mean shit? You can put your fork down and fight whatever battle you one but don't come and tell us what to feel or react. He isn't even dead and who is gloating? Worst i seen is fuck him, so take your strawman somewhere else.
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its the same with many posters on GAF, if the US is at war with them, the casualty is justified and sad but we must press on (ignoring that the reason for the Vietnamese war was completely fabricated)
 
Mammoth Jones said:
I thanked the cop that saved my life when I was a child. I am now obviously complicit in every police atrocity ever. If you can't see nuance... If you worldview is so static....

Well then that's you. I live in reality. It's not always as set as you're making it seem but whatever. Do you.
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"Thank you for your (abstract, unspecified) service which also included atrocities" isn't that same as "thank you for this specific act which saved my life"
 
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