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[Omnistalgic]

The issue I have is that the changes they made are removing the aspect of the game I enjoyed the most. In a previous post I mentioned that I never cared about actually getting better at racing, or racing against other real, human, opponents. All I've every really cared for in my Gran Turismo experience is grinding out races, amassing a unreasonably large collection of cars and slowly testing and upgrading cars for fun. The shift to being an on-line multiplayer racing game supplemented by player defined solo races (which may or may not generate currency, I've not seen that question asked or answered), and training events does not appeal to me. On-line racing, an arcade mode and license tests have existed in GT in the past, and did not appeal to me then, so it's really not unreasonable or surprising for me to be disappointed in an entire game being focused on those aspects.

We are not just talking about "changes" we are talking about not having a core component that has existed in every main-line GT since the beginning. While Sport may not truthfully be a "main-line" Gran Turismo the PR certainly has me fooled with all this talk about how GT7 is not on the horizon and how GTS is a like a reboot and new beginning for the franchise.

Thats cool, and I was pretty hung up on the 1000 cars aspect being gone as well as I like to collect cars and earn tons of credit. For me, I'm just not convinced that aspect isn't an update away. I mean all they have to do is update the game with more custom races and add cars. This is like prologue but with a focus on Sports, it's doing a lot of things people complained about better (sound physics etc) and honestly, I've did the collect a cars for like 4 GT's now.

I'm of the opinion that change was needed and the team just isn't fast enough to put a ton of cars in quickly. Why the campaign doesn't also have a bunch of SP races though that emulate Sunday cups is beyond me lol. Hopefully though that will be answered with the final build as we do know there are some races in the campaign outside of driving school, and you earn credits in Arcade mode.

Still just seems like they could easily put in some standard race types by default right under the 'racing ediquette' banner. And hopefully they do just that.

Overall though, I just can't relate to the dissapointment as much anymore. I don't want to kill the AI with a turbo charged Subaru, completely own the entire race and spam it to get 100'million credits. That aspect is just kinda tired at this point. Hopefully PD can make us nice miss it with Sport however, time will tell.

 

[A_Dang]

Overall though, I just can't relate to the dissapointment as much anymore. I don't want to kill the AI with a turbo charged Subaru, completely own the entire race and spam it to get 100'million credits. That aspect is just kinda tired at this point. Hopefully PD can make us nice miss it with Sport however, time will tell.

That is exactly what I want, and if it does get patched in, I'll be in!...we just don't have any indication of that happening yet, which makes sense from a promotional stand point.

 

[sems4arsenal]

It's very exciting that the big graphical powerhouses in PD, ND and GG will release stuff very close to each other.

 

[the_big_country]

GTS is wait and see for me. While I’m with many of you in lamenting the loss of a traditional career, I’m fine with PD trying a new approach that could result in far greater player retention and interest. Plus “online racing that doesn’t suck” would be an innovation on console. I’d love to play GTS if it nailed the iRacing-lite that it’s going for.

I’m wait and see because of the car and track list. I understand the need for strict classes and balance of performance because of the esports route that GTS is going. But damn, a lot of the cars just use the same basic model, just under different classes. And some of those cars are immersion-breaking, e.g. Mustang Rally Car, NSX Rally Car. The track list is especially disappointing. The only real tracks at launch are Brands Hatch, Mount Panorama, Nurburgring, Suzuka, Willow Springs, and probably Interlagos. I want to race real cars on real tracks if I’m gonna play an esport racer.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Livery Editor video from PS Access

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dW7uPM3X-k

 

[Papacheeks]

That's pretty impressive! Evolution were at it even back then, pushing the bounderies like few others. And of course Sony thought it was wise to close them down.

I hear they're developing something under Codemaster's umbrella now though. Can't wait to see what they're cooking! Since they're multiplatform now their only negative, the framerate, should be a non-issue on PC and with their passion to push the bounderies of the hardware I wouldn't be surprised to see another "But can it run Crysis?" situation.

It was wise to shut them down as they were a straight up money pit. Go look up how many copies they sold of their sequels to motorstorm for PS3? Then you had Driveclub be a disaster at launch and only close to the tail end become a great community game that had a lot of updates done to it.

I own it, it's a pretty racer, and I think it's decent. But it took a long time to come to market, and was plagued with network issues that Sony themselves had to step in and correct. Along with the game not selling super well for how long the studio stayed open and it's production time. Driveclub was a very expensive game for them to make. Add in the ton's of money lost from Pacific Rim, and Apocolypse and that's why Sony closed them down.

 

[ricen-beans]

Livery Editor video from PS Access

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dW7uPM3X-k

So Holly confirms you can upload you're own images for the livery editor into the game!

Did I hear that correctly?

 

[Niks]

Livery Editor video from PS Access

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dW7uPM3X-k

Ok, I'm going to spend a LOT of time on this. 300 layers of editing.

Can't wait to see the designs talented people are going to come up with.

 

[Fess]

It was wise to shut them down as they were a straight up money pit. Go look up how many copies they sold of their sequels to motorstorm for PS3? Then you had Driveclub be a disaster at launch and only close to the tail end become a great community game that had a lot of updates done to it.

I own it, it's a pretty racer, and I think it's decent. But it took a long time to come to market, and was plagued with network issues that Sony themselves had to step in and correct. Along with the game not selling super well for how long the studio stayed open and it's production time. Driveclub was a very expensive game for them to make. Add in the ton's of money lost from Pacific Rim, and Apocolypse and that's why Sony closed them down.

I still don't think they should've done it. Driveclub was awesome. Sure they messed up the launch, and the PS+ talk probably hurt the sales too, but look around on the boards and you'll see how many that still think it's one of the best racers this generation. Then look up how much talk there is about The Last Guardian which survived a generation long delay and nobody talks about now. A new Motorstorm would've been system seller material. The upside is that we might get "Motorhurricane" on PC now!

 

[blastprocessor]

Man I’m regretting pre-ordering this now the single player content isn’t cool. Can’t easily cancel as got numerous discounts. Oh well 😔

 

[PeterLegend]

The level of detail pop in on the fences/trees and low res shadows need to improve.

The lighting is god tier though

 

[Servbot24]

I still don't think they should've done it. Driveclub was awesome. Sure they messed up the launch, and the PS+ talk probably hurt the sales too, but look around on the boards and you'll see how many that still think it's one of the best racers this generation. Then look up how much talk there is about The Last Guardian which survived a generation long delay and nobody talks about now. A new Motorstorm would've been system seller material. The upside is that we might get "Motorhurricane" on PC now!

Any CEO who makes decisions based on some message board nerds liking a game is not going to last long in their position.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

Livery Editor video from PS Access

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dW7uPM3X-k

Remember when they announced it and we were thinking how half-assed it would be, seems they ended up creating one of the best Livery Editors out there. Again this is my frustration with GTS, Everything sorrounding the game is great, it's just content.

 

[KennyLinder]

Ok, I'm going to spend a LOT of time on this. 300 layers of editing.

Can't wait to see the designs talented people are going to come up with.

Is that 300 per side?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Is that 300 per side?

Appears to add to the stack of layers when mirroring so I think that's total.

 

[Ryu Hayabusa]

The level of detail pop in on the fences/trees and low res shadows need to improve.

The lighting is god tier though

Also the rear view mirror

 

[funkystudent]

Remember when they announced it and we were thinking how half-assed it would be, seems they ended up creating one of the best Livery Editors out there. Again this is my frustration with GTS, Everything sorrounding the game is great, it's just content.

I'd wait and see before calling it one of the best. We dont know its limitations.

Heck do we even know if you can share paint jobs in game?

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

I'd wait and see before calling it one of the best. We dont know its limitations.

Heck do we even know if you can share paint jobs in game?

Apparently we can share paint jobs, but you right, as is many things with PD it's best to judge it when we have it on our hands.

 

[enzo_gt]

Remember when they announced it and we were thinking how half-assed it would be, seems they ended up creating one of the best Livery Editors out there. Again this is my frustration with GTS, Everything sorrounding the game is great, it's just content.

One of the best by what measure? Having less than a third of the number of layers available to paint on than Forza does (a tenth when it comes to some parts of the car)? No sign of grouping or saving custom layer groups either?

It's got lots of nice material presets and uploading will be neat for people who can take advantage of it, but it's missing a bunch of basic features.

 

[Niks]

One of the best by what measure? Having less than a third of the number of layers available to paint on than Forza does (a tenth when it comes to some parts of the car)? No sign of grouping or saving custom layer groups either?

It's got lots of nice material presets and uploading will be neat for people who can take advantage of it, but it's missing a bunch of basic features.

What do you mean by a tenth?

 

[enzo_gt]

What do you mean by a tenth?

300 layers vs. 3000 layers on the side (Forza 6).

 

[Papacheeks]

I still don't think they should've done it. Driveclub was awesome. Sure they messed up the launch, and the PS+ talk probably hurt the sales too, but look around on the boards and you'll see how many that still think it's one of the best racers this generation. Then look up how much talk there is about The Last Guardian which survived a generation long delay and nobody talks about now. A new Motorstorm would've been system seller material. The upside is that we might get "Motorhurricane" on PC now!

I'll let Servbot24 say what I wanted to say.

Any CEO who makes decisions based on some message board nerds liking a game is not going to last long in their position.

^

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

The car paint is a thing of beauty, can't say I've ever seen better car paint in a game before.

 

[Niks]

300 layers vs. 3000 layers on the side (Forza 6).

Sorry for being ignorant, but isn't 300 enough? 3000 seems like overkill? How does this work, each item you add counts as a layer?

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Sorry for being ignorant, but isn't 300 enough? 3000 seems like overkill? How does this work, each item you add counts as a layer?

Helped some make fantastic decals though.

 

[Gouda Jouji]

300 layers vs. 3000 layers on the side (Forza 6).

The decal resolution might be higher in GT Sport so that could be why the count is so much lower. And since you can import images (apparently), you can just create your complicated decals in Photoshop/GIMP/Acorn etc. So I think it's a fair trade off.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Sorry for being ignorant, but isn't 300 enough? 3000 seems like overkill? How does this work, each item you add counts as a layer?

Yep 300 layers is more than most people will ever need.

 

[Gestault]

Yep 300 layers is more than most people will ever need.

Tell that to actual artists.

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Tell that to actual artists.

While I'm sure some artists who play GT Sport might want more, most people playing the game will never need that many layers.

 

[mokalovesoulmate]

Yep 300 layers is more than most people will ever need.

Tell that to actual artists.

Most people is not actual artist :/

 

[Maintenance]

 

 

[Graphics Horse]

Sorry for being ignorant, but isn't 300 enough? 3000 seems like overkill? How does this work, each item you add counts as a layer?

Because Anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_BZQODQbLM

Why are people defending having less of something? If it was possible, why shouldn't they have more than that? If they are at their limit, sure, but if not why do that?

I don't know why it's that low unless they just want to discourage the crazy way people use it in Forza. I'd like to know more about this picture import option, I'd assume there's a limit to how many custom images you can use per car. Forza's method of having no custom pictures means it's only a handful of KB to transfer a full livery.

 

[Mush]

Tell that to actual artists.

But if we're allowed to upload our own images doesn't that make things a whole lot easier?

Maybe we can merge layers like PS (wishful thinking I know).

 

[Audioboxer]

Because Anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_BZQODQbLM

lol

But yeah, these options need to be in-depth for the minority that can actually blow people away (and hopefully have a game with a sharing feature).

PD yet again trailing behind the pack, but as a series starved from an editor for so long people will understandably do jumping jacks for whatever gets included.

 

[Gestault]

But if we're allowed to upload our own images doesn't that make things a whole lot easier?

Maybe we can merge layers like PS (wishful thinking I know).

If the import feature allows alpha layers, we're in great shape.

 

[Niks]

Tell that to actual artists.

Well I'm no artist, but I do use photoshop every day at work, and rarely do I use 300 (let alone 3000) layers for a piece.

However I don't know if you can add various objects to a layer like you can in Photoshop.

Edit: NVM, just saw that anime vid.. yeah I can see lots of layers going fast trying to recreate complex images from scratch.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Why are people defending having less of something? If it was possible, why shouldn't they have more than that? If they are at their limit, sure, but if not why do that?

Maybe because what is in the game looks fantastic ?

GT had a ton of content before and quality started to suffer and people complained, so cutting back on some things for better quality is a good idea.

Quality over Quantity is a winner in my book.

 

[KdotIX]

300 layers vs. 3000 layers on the side (Forza 6).

Gotta say it looks mighty impressive for PD's first try.

Even though you can slap on a lot more layers on Forza, the graphics and decals in GTS look way like they're way higher quality.

There's also all those special paints! Have a feeling there's a lot we could do here to make our cars truly unique.

 

[Apex]

One of the best by what measure? Having less than a third of the number of layers available to paint on than Forza does (a tenth when it comes to some parts of the car)? No sign of grouping or saving custom layer groups either?

It's got lots of nice material presets and uploading will be neat for people who can take advantage of it, but it's missing a bunch of basic features.

Looks very user friendly and organized, fast and with enough liberty to draw most designs with no previous experience, with enough default assets and licensed logos. Once applied liveries does seem to have very high ingame resolution, with no apparent glitches, etc.

And there's still a number of unexplored options that are unknown, but is promising and much better than many GT detractors and fans were expecting in GT. It would not be surprising that will end being one of the best solutions to draw racing liveries, with the best balance between the effort and the final results, no matter the brute numbers or the methodology that other game liveries could be using.

Anyway, I don't think many GT players would have a problem if the anime liveries of 3K layers remain exclusive of Forza.

 

[blastprocessor]

Gran Turismo Sport - Tracks so far

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4lPeiNsAVc

 

[Gestault]

Well I'm no artist, but I do use photoshop every day at work, and rarely do I use 300 (let alone 3000) layers for a piece.

However I don't know if you can add various objects to a layer like you can in Photoshop.

Each object is considered a layer. These in-game editors are more like illustrator (with no pen tool) than photoshop.

 

[KRaZyAmmo]

Also don't forget for Forza you have to make your own decals if you ever want to share a livery or decal. I hope Forza would have the aftermarket logos in-game already instead of having to do them all individually share. That's one of the reason why I haven't finished the Nichei Racing Rocket Bunny S15 on Forza Horizon 3.

 

[fbutron]

Man I’m regretting pre-ordering this now the single player content isn’t cool. Can’t easily cancel as got numerous discounts. Oh well 😔

Sure mate, let me help you with your burden if its the collector edition for Europe PM please

 

[Graphics Horse]

Each object is considered a layer. These in-game editors are more like illustrator (with no pen tool) than photoshop.

Yeah that's a better way of putting it.

 

[IKizzLE]

Gran Turismo Sport - Tracks so far

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4lPeiNsAVc

Where version of the game is this?

 

[Graphics Horse]

Where version of the game is this?

Recent press demo. There's more tracks than that in the game, not sure if they will unlock them as you go or what.

 

[enzo_gt]

Sorry for being ignorant, but isn't 300 enough? 3000 seems like overkill? How does this work, each item you add counts as a layer?

More layers = more complex shapes, because yes, each shape counts as it's own layer. Remember, you're combining a ton of primitive shapes to get something that isn't just a circle or a triangle.

This is exactly what people thought like 4 Forza iterations ago. How could you use more than 300? If you've put more than an hour or two inta a livery editor before, you know they add up quite fast unless all you're planning to do is throw some racing stripes on your car. And a higher upper limit benefits artists who will be the primary producers of content that everyone else downloads and applies.

Then again, you can still do a lot. Here's some stuff from late into the life of Forza 2, which IIRC let you use a maximum of 1000 layers across the whole car:

Something important to consider is that when you're limited by the number of shapes you can use, that sometimes means you have to use shapes the color of base paint out of necessity to block out areas, which sometimes you need to do anyways, but it makes layer management more confusing. Anything that involves shading or gradients will take up a whole bunch of layers if you want to depict complicated lighting on your car. Now compare that to something from Horizon 2:

Night and day difference in complexity of what is being depicted.

Another thing that's important to factor in is that how easy it is to create liveries is pretty dependent on the types of primitives or basic shapes available. From what I've seen, that's one of the places where PD has learned pretty well from competition, and they've got a ton of community/manufacturer/aftermarket logos in there as well, but it remains to be seen the totality of what's in the final product.

It's not the number of layers so much as the lack of things like grouping and saving groups that is going to hurt it and are CRUCIAL to efficiency and ease of use.

 

[Fess]

I'll let Servbot24 say what I wanted to say.

"Any CEO who makes decisions based on some message board nerds liking a game is not going to last long in their position."

^

Doesn't look too good for Kazunori Yamauchi then considering the sudden change after the GT6 complaints...

Seriously though, I think Sony will understand their mistake (imo) once the former-Evolution team release their next game under Codemaster's label on other platforms. Driveclub did lots of things right gameplaywise and has kept people talking about the PS4s graphics capabilities for years. Honestly, visually I don't think it's been surpassed yet even if you look outside of consoles. I have a 1080Ti and can max out every single game but so far I haven't seen anything beat the graphical fidelity and crazy details of Driveclub. I just want it at higher framerate really, that's like my only complaint.

But back to talking about GTS now. I totally agree with Yautja_Warrior that quality beats quantity. That's not my issue here. I really don't need 1000 cars. It's a waste of resources imo. But it would be cool to have more regular cars, the fastest cars are never the most fun to drive in a game from my point of view, the most fun cars are those that needs all kinds of tweaking and control trickery to master.