He doesn't do it on the show. The show cuts off everything about Robb and Cat at the Red Wedding. No message about his heir being Jon Snow/Stark, no surviving (pregnant?) wife, no Lady Stoneheart.
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He doesn't do it on the show. The show cuts off everything about Robb and Cat at the Red Wedding. No message about his heir being Jon Snow/Stark, no surviving (pregnant?) wife, no Lady Stoneheart.
Giving something more thought and evolving my opinion = talking a bunch of crap? Gotcha.
She wasn't pregnant because her mother was a Lannister spy secretly giving her moon tea.
In the books, I can almost guarantee Lyanna Mormont has the letter legitimizing Jon and dissolving his NW vows. That is why she says "only recognize one king whose name is Stark", Jon's name isn't Stark, so when they have her that line in the show, it didn't make much sense. That is how he will become KitN in the books not them deciding to follow a bastard because he led a battle.
Before the show made Jon KitN I thought it may be because she knew where Rickon was and that he is alive, but now I believe that it is referring to Jon.
When you post something like no main characters have died in a long time without putting actual thought into it first I think it's a fair criticism.
Human Trashcan
Banned
I don't have a list, but Brienne is definitely a focalizer, Tywin is not. We never really spend any time with Tywin where he isn't also in the presence of another focalizer, eg. Arya, Jaime, Cersei, or Tyrion (usually). We get plenty of time with Brienne to understand her motivations and personality. All of our understanding of Tywin comes from his interactions with characters that we know better than we know him. We never even see Tywin until Tyrion meets him. If he were a main character, we'd get some first-hand insight into things like him bedding Shae, instead of getting it from Tyrion's perspective. The show prioritizes many, many different viewpoints over Tywin's. Finally, and where I think you are getting it twisted: Importance to the plot is not relevant to whether he's a main character of the show or not.
Yeah I even do kind of like the choice to put Robb offscreen from a style standpoint too but it's pretty wild.
No offense but you said no main character died since Robb and Cat, when Stannis and Ramsey were both much larger characters than Robb. If you are going by the show then yeah Robb is a main character, but on that same token, Margery and Tywin are main characters as well.
None of the five central characters are gonna die in the books either though(Jon, Bran, Dany, Tyrion and Arya). Well Jon won't die once he is resurrected.
There is really no tension with Jon any more, he has always been the most central character, we just never realized it until recently, the entire plot revolves around him and has from the start, GRRM was just brilliant in his ability to hide that. Now we all know that he is the central character to the story so we know that he will not die until the finale at the earliest.(I'm leaning toward him surviving the finale and being the one that has to pick up the pieces of the fallout of all the death and destruction that has happened)
I think Martin said he regretted not making Robb a POV character because it telegraphed his death. I didn't see it coming, though. I thought Robb worked great in both book and show. I really liked that actor, too.
Good point. I didn't realize Jon was so important until long after AGoT. I still think he won't end up happy. He'll have to live north of the Wall or something. Jon never has it easy.
Well the reason the show made him a main character is because they wanted a higher shock value of the Red Wedding. Also why they changed Dany's HotU visions because it would have completely given it away.
Gunslinger
Member
And maybe that is the real ending?
Asoiaf 7: return of the Starks?
Zombie Ned confirmed.
Camp Freddie
Member
So, the annulment. I wonder what the grounds could have been. Obviously, we don't know Westerosi law, but annulment normally erases a marriage entirely due to some legal or cultural problem (e.g. bigamy, fraud, forced consent, failure to conceive or lack of consommation).
Sansa/Tyrion never fucked so annulment was justified. The show and books strongly support the consommation requirement.
But Rhaegar had two kids already and his wife is a legit Dornish princess. So was there a reason or are they just saying annulment because it sounds more medieval than divorce?
Sansa/Tyrion never fucked so annulment was justified. The show and books strongly support the consommation requirement.
But Rhaegar had two kids already and his wife is a legit Dornish princess. So was there a reason or are they just saying annulment because it sounds more medieval than divorce?
hendersonhank
Member
Two books theoretically left, right?
Dash_Riprock
Member
GRRM has threatened that A Dream of Spring might need to be split into two.
hendersonhank
Member
That worked fantastically with the last one.
Zero book divided by two is still zero book.
manfestival
Member
duuuude imagine if the Stark family ends up being resurrected as some sorta white walker zombies but also have the blue eyes and are aware of their actions.
Bounceounce
Member
Weirdest thing I've seen was someone trying to claim that Theon wasn't a main character and was on par with characters such as Littlefinger and The Hound.
Theon has been aimless since escaping Winterfell. That's true of a few important characters, though. Everything is coalescing around Dany, Jon, and Cercei so a lot of arcs have been halted while we wait for those three to act.
I imagine he goes after Euron and either dies or regains his agency.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Well, this is interesting.
If proof of Robb legitimizing Jon did indeed reach someone, do you think there could be a conflict between Stannis who would prefer a more controllable Rickon as head of House Stark and protector of the North and some northerners who would want Jon as KiTN?
m_shortpants
Member
So mad, I think I read a spoiler on Facebook.
Man, fuck people.
Go dark on social media if you want to go in unspoiled! I guess that's my mistake
Never thought I'd be spoiled on this again after we went past the books haha
Man, fuck people.
Go dark on social media if you want to go in unspoiled! I guess that's my mistake
Never thought I'd be spoiled on this again after we went past the books haha
Man I was just on r/all and I got spoiled as well, I don't mind it as much considering just watching the show itself is spoiling the future books.
Also its interesting how subtly and fast the show converged its plotlines, I didn't even notice it until I started to think about it, but as of now we really only have three plotlines in the show- Winterfell (sigh), Kings Landing and Dragonstone. I should note I am including both Dany and Jon in the "Dragonstone" one. Winterfell is Arya/Sansa/Littlefinger, and Kings Landing is Jaime/Cersei.
Human Trashcan
Banned
On the show he hasn't been in a while. He has very little screentime this season. But he definitely was at one point, for a long time.
Bounceounce
Member
He has a consistent arc that can operate independently of other main characters, hell Season 2 was pretty much the Tyrion and Theon show, his status doesn't change simply because of his arc coalescing with others where he will by the nature of his current state have less to do, but he still gets highlight focus and clearly has an arc laid out for him that will lead somewhere.
From the sea battle, to him being rescued by the Ironborn, to him returning to Dragonstone and being confronted by Jon on arrival.
Honestly if we're going by the current bumbling show standards he's had a lot of movement, no less or more than most of the other mains and it's at least been something with a traceable line.
Johnlenham
Member
I just bit the bullet and watched it, much better this way as now I dont need to hide from the internet
He was the best bit of Season 2 and Book 5. I can't see how anyone could say he's not a main character.
Yep. I decided to search it out and save myself from misery by being spoiled.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Very easily because he's had like 5 minutes of screen time this season. It's not rocket science guys, you actually have to be a character to qualify for main character status. I'm not talking about his status on the show as a whole, but if the question is "is Theon a main character this season" then fuck no. That's not precluding him from coming back to prominence. But I think he's pretty much done in terms of major developments. At least I hope so. He doesn't deserve redemption and I think the best part of his arc is that it shows that torture can just completely fucking break a person, permanently, with no way back.
The Artisan
Member
that's a very by-the-book approach to things but there was no legitimizing when Jon was crowned King in the North. The North just gave him the title, not giving a fuck about formalities.
Leyasu
Banned
First time at looking at this thread so don't kill me.
Obviously this has been discussed. But is it not certain that in the show that Jon will end up with Dany? Who is obviously a relative?
Jon will be king through his marriage to Dany.
The Artisan
Member
there's another answer to this question and I cannot believe I forgot to bring it up the first time: the direwolves. they are way, WAY more important to the Stark kids than in the show, right? and all of them can warg?
You can really see how D+D have to rely solely on themselves now with but a mere story outline from GRRM. Doesn't instill much confidence in their future endeavors.
Yes book-wolves are much more prominent and serve as such obvious metaphors for the kids that they're really just extensions of the kids.
Jon can warg and he probably survives the mutiny by warging into Ghost until his body is reanimated. The show skips all that but it's actually not totally crazy that Jon is mostly unchanged by his death, because he would've actually maintained a continuity of consciousness by "riding" in Ghost.
Arya has strong wolf-dreams by which she keeps in touch with Nymeria who basically becomes a Queen of Wolves marauding with an unprecedentedly large pack in the Riverlands. Arya eventually starts warging cats in the Temple of Black and White to compensate for her blindness.
Jon can warg and he probably survives the mutiny by warging into Ghost until his body is reanimated. The show skips all that but it's actually not totally crazy that Jon is mostly unchanged by his death, because he would've actually maintained a continuity of consciousness by "riding" in Ghost.
Arya has strong wolf-dreams by which she keeps in touch with Nymeria who basically becomes a Queen of Wolves marauding with an unprecedentedly large pack in the Riverlands. Arya eventually starts warging cats in the Temple of Black and White to compensate for her blindness.
I imagine Jon will have to decide between what's good for the realm and his own happiness. We know what he would decide if forced to choose. Plus, he seems borderline suicidal since coming back from the dead. There could be a happily ever after but I doubt it. We'll see
The Artisan
Member
sadly gonna have to agree with this. the walking dead has gone to such shit and although Thrones isn't nearly as bad, the writing is a pretty decent step down this season.
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Last Episode was even a touch below Walking Dead levels tbh. Based on the last episode...I'm pretty close to calling it worse than Season 5. However, I haven't done the math yet to see how much time Dorne took up.
Honestly I wonder what Theon has left to do in the show? Like why not kill him off?
Oldest Snake
Member
He'll kill Euron à la (Breaking Bad spoilers)
Jesse killing Todd
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Oh god this is what's going to happen
Bounceounce
Member
Ftfy
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I was kind of surprised he's not being called Jon Stark this season. Even if he doesn't want it, I would have thought the Northmen and even Sansa would basically legitimize him by calling him that from now on.
Would have been a great moment for Davos to introduce him as Jon Stark to Dany.
Bounceounce
Member
There's not a chance that happens.
Human Trashcan
Banned
You're probably right and he'll get one final heroic sacrifice moment. But he shouldn't.
Other.
HBO Nordic and HBO Spain accidentally released it.
Anyone think that there is more to the White Walkers, and that there might be a difference between book/show incarnations?
I swear GRRM said somewhere that the Others were not like Tolkeinesque orcs, and on top of that there seems to be a semblance of culture/society with them in the books as they have their own language and "mock" that NW deserter. On the show they are more like ice demons, but even then such a detail would not be overlooked in the show? Unless D&D really are just trying to sprint to the end and are turning this into one big "life vs. death" fight.
I don't know, I can't help but feel kind of disappointed this is all there is to the White Walkers- an experiment gone bad by the Children of the Forest. At the same time, there's too many details to ignore- why did the WW choose now to attack? Why didn't they attack the wildlings en masse if they truly just hated and wanted to kill humans? There's a "Bran = Night King" theory which I don't exactly believe, but it does make me think Bran has something to do with the Others. I just want to believe...
I swear GRRM said somewhere that the Others were not like Tolkeinesque orcs, and on top of that there seems to be a semblance of culture/society with them in the books as they have their own language and "mock" that NW deserter. On the show they are more like ice demons, but even then such a detail would not be overlooked in the show? Unless D&D really are just trying to sprint to the end and are turning this into one big "life vs. death" fight.
I don't know, I can't help but feel kind of disappointed this is all there is to the White Walkers- an experiment gone bad by the Children of the Forest. At the same time, there's too many details to ignore- why did the WW choose now to attack? Why didn't they attack the wildlings en masse if they truly just hated and wanted to kill humans? There's a "Bran = Night King" theory which I don't exactly believe, but it does make me think Bran has something to do with the Others. I just want to believe...
Human Trashcan
Banned
no. Life vs Death has always been the point. Or rather, "stop fighting over petty bullshit, humans, because nature will kill us all if we don't do something together." That's pretty much the thematic core of the series. I'm sure we'll get bitchin' lore but they're ice zombies and they're coming to end all life. It's telegraphed in the first frickin' chapter of the series. Don't overthink the central conceit just because GRRM is in conversation with (and subverting) so many epic fantasy tropes. That doesn't make it not an epic fantasy series.
Just like how Spec Ops The Line is still a war game while subverting many war game tropes. Or Watchmen is still a superhero book while deconstructing superhero tropes.
Shit is rushing headlong to the finish line with hardly any episodes left. I'm pretty certain it's just going to be a tired good vs evil end. They didn't exactly leave themselves room for any more with the WW with that cliche origin story, and the CotF are dead.
Edit - oops, wrong thread
Edit - oops, wrong thread
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