Support NeoGAF

[Meadows]

In London in June we had 3 terrorists go on a rampage through the heart of a busy central market.

They only managed to kill 8 people because not only did they not have access to automatic weapons, but no guns at all. The majority of deaths were from crashing the van into a crowd with a few more in knife attacks.

I dread to think what the toll would have been if they had this kind of weaponry.

 

[gimmmick]

Man I really hope legislation of gun control gets passed through NV. It's unacceptable how anyone that isn't active military or police has access to an automatic weapon. You never really think it effects you until you are put on the spot. Granted i didn't hear the gun shots when it happened, but it happened right outside my fucking work place.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Only white people seem to get that luxury, is my point.

As I posted above, that doesn't seem true? Google shows me quote a few websites talking about Islamic terror in combination with the term lone wolf.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it appears different from the initial google search.

 

[cartoon_soldier]

Man I really hope legislation of gun control gets passed through NV. It's unacceptable how anyone that isn't active military or police has access to an automatic weapon. You never really think it effects you until you are put on the spot. Granted i didn't hear the gun shots when it happened, but it happened right outside my fucking work place.

Keep wishing.

Expect gun sales to go up post this tragedy too.

 

[DiscoShark]

Where this guy got a fully automatic, I dont know, but blaming this entirely on guns? If someone is that committed to death and destruction, they'll find a way. Mental health and religion is the culprit here, not guns.

Lol, here it comes.

Not that I'm surprised, its been mentioned before but if Sandy Hook couldn't move America to make some real changes to our gun policy then this certainly won't.

 

[Ravensmash]

It’s also a euphemism for ‘non-brown’ even if subconsciously. Muslim murderers are never called ‘lone wolves’.

Is this a US only thing?

Lone wolf is almost synonymous with terror attacks recently.

 

[zsynqx]

And of course the early name being banded around along with his anti Trump motive was wrong and an innocent man was publicly outed as a mass murderer!

Not surprising really., they did the exact same thing during Charlottesville.

 

[Majukun]

That's a defeatist attitude you have. Who is saying it's just going to disappear? I said filtering it out over however many years it takes. It's going to take a long time, new generations are going to need to grow up in a different mentality of gun ownership to help. If you start now then in 50--100 years time they'll be closer and getting rid of 80-90% is better than nothing.

Buy why bother, we'll never get up that mountain or cross that sea.

I'm just saying that it's not something that will resolve itself just with one single step made,no matter how many years..if anything because the step you are proposing does nothing about changing the environment in which the "new children" will rise..."gun values" and the american values attached to that will still be taught and there will not be any hange in mentality if not with a radical cultural change in the US, which is not likely to happen.

there are tons of things that need to be done at the same time to contain this issue,and that's the main problem..with all the cultural and economical reason circulating this issue, it would be a miracle to even get done ONE of the necessary steps done...that's why the debate has not gone anywhere for decades

 

[Blackthorn]

Where this guy got a fully automatic, I dont know, but blaming this entirely on guns? If someone is that committed to death and destruction, they'll find a way. Mental health and religion is the culprit here, not guns.

In the London Bridge attacks here in London, the best the three attackers had was cars and knives. They did a lot of damage and killed eight people (three from the car, five with knives), but every victim who was lucky enough to make it to hospital survived.

How that same attack would have unfolded had they had automatic weapons is unthinkable.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I'm OK with Personal Firearm for safety of one's home

Say a pistol, Glock, even up to a shotgun

What the hell does someone need a GODDAMN LMG, Uzi or even AR-15 for?

Don't tell me it's for sport or some second amendment or muh' guns reason
There are shooting galleries, you cam go have your fun there under the supervision of at least safety licensed individuals

On YouTube I see idiots go into the woods or abandoned lots, no precautions taken, on how to handle, address safety, and just shoot away
I'm amazed some of these idiots have been flagged down for doing so many things so wrong

 

[J2 Cool]

Where this guy got a fully automatic, I dont know, but blaming this entirely on guns? If someone is that committed to death and destruction, they'll find a way. Mental health and religion is the culprit here, not guns.

Cool, "mental health" is an easy way to label it and set aside the issue, but you're never going to be foolproof in treating an entire nation's mental health. There's some variable in regard to what we understand about mental health, and our success rate in treating it.

What we do know, is you can't allow citizens to so easily get their hands on automatic weapons. They serve no fucking purpose for the general public to have, other than an ego trip and money in capitalist's pockets

 

[theignoramus]

Savannah Guthrie‏Verified account @SavannahGuthrie 13m13 minutes ago
More
NBC: Stephen Paddock, 64, is the Vegas shooting suspect. @PeteWilliamsNBC

suspect name released

 

[dili]

How many innocents need to get shot before America wakes up and see how fucked up its gun situation really is.

Short of mass genocide I don't think anything will happen. Heck, I doubt even a mass genocide will make America changes its fucked up gun situation.

Such a terrible thing.

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

 

[CookTrain]

In the London Bridge attacks here in London, the best the three attackers had was cars and knives. They did a lot of damage and killed eight people (three from the car, five with knives), but every victim who was lucky enough to make it to hospital survived.

How that same attack would have unfolded had they had automatic weapons is unthinkable.

Conversely, a man brought a bomb to a Manchester concert and killed similar numbers of people.

It's a tricky situation. Would this guy have proceeded without access to firearms? I doubt it, but it's not as straightforward as any of us would like it to be.

I'm just glad that firearms are such a fringe concern in the UK.

 

[Occam]

Keep wishing.

Expect gun sales to go up post this tragedy too.

And the next thread about the next American mass shooting will go the same as this. And the one after that. And after that.
In fact, if you deleted the headline and opening post, you probably wouldn't even notice they are different threads.

 

[Not]

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

I can't tell when this post stops being sarcastic.

 

[HariKari]

I'm OK with Personal Firearm for safety of one's home

Say a pistol, Glock, even up to a shotgun

What the hell does someone need a GODDAMN LMG, Uzi or even AR-15 for?

The ratio of handgun violence to AR violence is absurdly titled toward handguns. True legally owned 'machine guns' like Uzis and LMGs are heavily regulated and never used in crimes.

My money is on a stolen gun, an illegally modified gun, or something approximating automatic fire like a slidefire stock.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Uh wow

 

[DonMigs85]

The roommate looks Filipina based on her name and face. Wonder if the gunman is too. Disgruntled employees at a casino perhaps? High on drugs?

 

[Westbahnhof]

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

Wait, is everything up to "obviously" sarcasm?
Because I sure hoped not, but it sounds that way.

Oh, and please explain this:

I wonder how many more times this is gonna happen before western countries unite and take a stand...

Unite against what, huh?

 

[remz]

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

They don't though fam, apart from in literal war zones.

Even easier to keep guns out of the USA because you don't have anywhere near as many neighbours with loose gun law as as the average euro country.

 

[Fliesen]

Conversely, a man brought a bomb to a Manchester concert and killed similar numbers of people.

It's a tricky situation. Would this guy have proceeded without access to firearms? I doubt it, but it's not as straightforward as any of us would like it to be.

yes it is.

there's empirical proof that the number of death-by-firearm is significantly higher in the US than in other nations.
That the number of death-by-firearm has dropped off significantly, after a ban was introduced, in other countries (like Australia)

Other countries have 'people with mental health issues' as well. The significant difference between the US and the rest of the developed world is not how mental health is treated, it's entirely about the access to firearms.

Sure, there's shootings in Europe as well, but they are significantly less frequent and, on average, with smaller casualty counts.

 

[sirap]

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

Please enlighten us — what's the big picture? Oh yeah, we're still waiting on a follow up to your previous post:

I wonder how many more times this is gonna happen before western countries unite and take a stand...

Take a stand against what exactly?

 

[acheron_xl]

Is this a US only thing?

Lone wolf is almost synonymous with terror attacks recently.

I get the sense, and maybe I’m wrong, that the way ‘lone wolf’ is used, it infers that they’re not connected to international terrorism. Kissing cousins to the ‘mental illness’ defense. The concept of self-radicalization seems lost on many people.

 

[Ambient80]

Cool, "mental health" is an easy way to label it and set aside the issue, but you're never going to be foolproof in treating an entire nation's mental health. There's some variable in regard to what we understand about mental health, and our success rate in treating it.

What we do know, is you can't allow citizens to so easily get their hands on automatic weapons. They serve no fucking purpose for the general public to have, other than an ego trip and money in capitalist's pockets

While I agree with your point, getting an automatic weapon is actually quite difficult, expensive and time consuming. The guns themselves are $10k+ even for a shitty one, and it usually takes months to get approved after a ton of background checks and local police approval (that last part is at least true in my state, not sure about others).

I don’t think people should have access at all, for the record. Just saying that getting them isn’t like walking into a gun store and just walking out with one.

 

[Lime]

Mike Rosenberg‏Verified account @ByRosenberg
Las Vegas is the 273rd mass shooting (4+ people shot) in America this year. We're 273 days into the year http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

 

[Bedlam]

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

Save your sarcasm.

Obviously there are shootings in Europe, too, but this shit is SO much more prevalent in the US and yes, it is largely due to the overwhelming prevalence of guns.

 

[lenovox1]

The roommate looks Filipina based on her name and face. Wonder if the gunman is too. Disgruntled employees at a casino perhaps? High on drugs?

He's already been identified. He's a 64 year old white male.

This is not good speculation by the way.

 

[CookTrain]

yes it is.

there's empirical proof that the number of death-by-firearm is significantly higher in the US than in other nations.
That the number of death-by-firearm has dropped off significantly, after a ban was introduced, in other countries (like Australia)

Other countries have 'people with mental health issues' as well. The significant difference between the US and the rest of the developed world is not how mental health is treated, it's entirely about the access to firearms.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was referring to this attack specifically.

 

[Chuckie]

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

Ignoring your misplaced sarcasm...what is the big picture? And what is the solution?

 

[Fliesen]

While I agree with your point, getting an automatic weapon is actually quite difficult, expensive and time consuming. The guns themselves are $10k+ even for a shitty one, and it usually takes months to get approved after a ton of background checks and local police approval (that last part is at least true in my state, not sure about others).

I don't think people should have access at all, for the record. Just saying that getting them isn't like walking into a gun store and just walking out with one.

And now imagine you're that person's son, daughter or wife and you happen to sneak into your husband's / dad's "arsenal". - You just got yourself a huge ass firearm, no background checks involved.

These types of guns should simply not be in circulation.

 

[Daffy Duck]

What's the law for Vegas and ownership of fully automatic weapons?

 

[AndersK]

Ignoring your misguided sarcasm...what is the big picture? And what is the solution?

He hasn't got the balls to come out and say it: Dem immugrantz.

Oh look, anime avatar.

 

[Audioboxer]

This is appalling. For anyone who can't watch the news just now the BBC do good live updates

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-41466148

 

[HariKari]

What's the law for Vegas and ownership of fully automatic weapons?

The same as everywhere else.

 

[Ambient80]

And now imagine you're that person's son, daughter or wife and you happen to sneak into your husband's / dad's "arsenal". - You just got yourself a huge ass firearm, no background checks involved.

These types of guns should simply not be in circulation.

You’re not wrong. That being said, most people who have automatics are ultra strict about gun safety/locking stuff up. I’ve never heard of someone with class 3 weapons leaving them lying about. Obviously that is anecdotal though, so who knows what happened here.

 

[Snaku]

So sad, but nothing will be done about it. When an elementary school is massacred and a good portion of the GOP deny it ever happened, and the rest are bought and paid for by the NRA, and nothing is done about it, you just kind of give up and hope someone you love doesn't get shot next.

 

[PerkeyMan]

Yeah, this is a gun problem. Totally. That's the problem and solution. Europe never has these kind of tragedies with their strict gun laws obviously. I'm not even for guns but you're ignoring the big picture here.

I can litterally hear the bald eagle flapping above you

 

[chromatic9]

It’s also a euphemism for ‘non-brown’ even if subconsciously. Muslim murderers are never called ‘lone wolves’.

They have been actually. Even the latest Canada terrorist attack by a somali asylum seeker with a ISIS flag has been described as a "lone wolf" attack BBC and CNN and many other places.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/10/01/americas/edmonton-vehicle-attacks-investigation/index.html

I've read a guy running at police in France with a machete shouting Allah Akbar being described as a lone wolf. Usually it's someone not connected ie acting alone and not reserved for white people.

 

[Meadows]

Conversely, a man brought a bomb to a Manchester concert and killed similar numbers of people.

It's a tricky situation. Would this guy have proceeded without access to firearms? I doubt it, but it's not as straightforward as any of us would like it to be.

I'm just glad that firearms are such a fringe concern in the UK.

I know, I was 200m away from the explosion.

Luckily, bomb attacks are much harder to plan and require months of preparation and training and multiple co-conspirators.

Even if it is a lone wolf effort (the Manchester attack was probably assisted by the guy's brother) then there is a high chance of failure due to the explosives failing, or going off while the bomb is being made. A lot of things have to go "right" for a terrorist to pull off a bomb attack, not so much with just picking an automatic rifle up off a shelf.

 

[Kyzon]

This is so sad. I've been with a ton of people to were evacuated to my job. So heartbreaking

 

[Enco]

"It's not straight forward"

1. A country with lots of guns
2. The country has lots of major gun crimes
3. Other countries with no guns have no major gun crimes

"B.. but it's complicated"

You have to 100% admit that this is down to money. If it wasn't there would absolutely be more regulation. You're a moron if you don't see that.

 

[Devilgunman]

So the gunman was shooting down from 32nd floor of the hotel

https://twitter.com/cbsnews/status/914797753481523201

Those people laying down on the ground had no idea bullets coming from above. Truly terrified.

 

[Conan-san]

Wait, when did the number of fatalites go up to 20?

 

[zsynqx]

Nothing from Trump yet.

 

[TheContact]

I'm OK with Personal Firearm for safety of one's home

Say a pistol, Glock, even up to a shotgun

What the hell does someone need a GODDAMN LMG, Uzi or even AR-15 for?

Don't tell me it's for sport or some second amendment or muh' guns reason
There are shooting galleries, you cam go have your fun there under the supervision of at least safety licensed individuals

On YouTube I see idiots go into the woods or abandoned lots, no precautions taken, on how to handle, address safety, and just shoot away
I'm amazed some of these idiots have been flagged down for doing so many things so wrong

The amendment was put in place in order to have arms which could be used to form militias to fight against the government if it became oppressive (see the American revolution). The problem is they didn’t take into account that no amount of LMGs or assault rifles in the peoples’ hands today will do squat against the government who has drones and tanks

It’s an antequated amendment and it needs to change

 

[El_Chino]

This is appalling. For anyone who can't watch the news just now the BBC do good live updates

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-41466148

"lone wolf"?

I like how they're avoiding the term "terrorist attack"

 

[sirap]

I know, I was 200m away from the explosion.

Luckily, bomb attacks are much harder to plan and require months of preparation and training and multiple co-conspirators.

Even if it is a lone wolf effort (the Manchester attack was probably assisted by the guy's brother) then there is a high chance of failure due to the explosives failing, or going off while the bomb is being made. A lot of things have to go "right" for a terrorist to pull off a bomb attack, not so much with just picking an automatic rifle up off a shelf.

Now imagine if bombers had easy access to guns too.

 

[Audioboxer]

"lone wolf"?

I like how they're avoiding the term "terrorist attack"

"Lone wolf" is a descriptor for someone attacking alone. It's useful to not spread panic that there is other attackers or people still at large.

I don't know why people on this page are flipping out at it being used.

We do not know a motive yet anyway. Leave the police/intelligence services to investigate. It'll be described as a terror attack if there is a political/social/ideological/religious motive.

 

[Bedlam]

Nothing from Trump yet.

They are probably scrambling hard at the WH to spin this so it fits or at least doesn't disturb their racist agenda.