Mass shooting at the Mandalay Bay Las Vegas; 58 dead, 500+ injured.

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The problem is these people with huge arsenals going on to pawn off or sell their extra guns at gun shows, where gun laws are heinously lax.

Yes, I'm a liberal gun owner that thinks there should be some stricter gun laws and this is one of them.

You should absolutely not be able to sell or give guns away to anyone without them having gone through the federal background check.

I honestly can't believe that even that change won't get support.
 
Everyone has their own hobbies. No on should be judging your interest.
With lethal weapons? Yeah, people are going to judge, and for damn good reason. Too many obscene and painful reasons.

I get the self-defense justifications, and the hunting ones. Its the "I just really like em" reasoning that I think requires some real introspection. The fact that these weapons are legal doesn't make the act of fetishizing them any less disturbing.

Somebody saying "abortions? I just really like to have them. Its kindof my hobby" wouldn't sound right either, would it?
 
People do use AR15s to hunt. Prohibition didn’t work and banning drugs didn’t work and banning firearms also won’t work. Anyway a real assault rifle is select fire and barely anyone in the country actually owns them due to high cost and high regulation of them. Regular AR15s are semi automatic
Booze and guns are the same thing? Ok.

Hunting with an AR15 is absolutely unnecessary.
 
Handguns may be a bigger problem, but that's not an argument for why people should be allowed to own assault rifles or other automatic weapons. People have been saying something like this could happen for ages, the fucking things are made for this - killing people, that is their purpose.

Sorry if it's misconstrued, but my argument isn't really that handguns are a bigger problem, so people should be allowed to own assault rifles. It's that we keep talking about banning what's not really the real problem and no one has the guts to talk about the real problem. That leaves too many openings to fight the anti-gun control narrative. "Well, this shooting could have still happened with your laws." or "Assault rifle is just the scary term, it's a meaningless designation." etc.

I'm just saying we need to be bold and say "All guns." All guns need to be regulated.
 
People do use AR15s to hunt. Prohibition didn't work and banning drugs didn't work and banning firearms also won't work. Anyway a real assault rifle is select fire and barely anyone in the country actually owns them due to high cost and high regulation of them. Regular AR15s are semi automatic

Stupid simplistic comparisons and by that logic we should get rid of the law all together since the law will never stop people from breaking it. What a low effort argument.

Handguns are good for self defense as proven by 1000s of stories of people using them for that purpose

In less than 3% of all armed confrontations has a person with a firearm fought off their offender, a bullshit unsupported, and lazy trope.

Cook, Philip J., and Kristin A. Goss. The Gun Debate: What Everyone Needs to Know®. Oxford University Press, 2014.
 
I know a guy who has a basement of guns and ammo. Everything from handguns to rifles and shotguns. He is also liberal but just has a firm belief about firearms. He and his family hunt and go to the range together.

I personally have multiple guns as well including a shotgun. Having more than one gun in America is not unusual.
Just because it’s not unusual doesn’t mean it’s the right path to be going down. After seeing these events over and over, I don’t think “I like them” is really a solid defense for keeping these things around in excess

The usual attitude of “Oh, but I only use mine for hunting only works to add to the culture surrounding it.” I get not wanting to give them all up, but there comes a point where it gets ridiculous

That's what I meant. Having a bunch of guns for defense is not really normal. What I meant is it's not abnormal for people who like guns for other reasons (collecting, target shooting, etc) to have lots of guns.
Ah, my bad. I suppose that was more directed at the crowd who uses the defense argument for having so many.
 
People do use AR15s to hunt. Prohibition didn't work and banning drugs didn't work and banning firearms also won't work. Anyway a real assault rifle is select fire and barely anyone in the country actually owns them due to high cost and high regulation of them. Regular AR15s are semi automatic

Banning =/= Regulation

Other developed nations have successfully dealt with gun regulation to keep gun homicides/suicides down. It's not impossible for America. It just begins with its citizens giving a shit and imbuing their politicians with the public authority to stand against NRA money.
 
Thats handguns you're thinking of. They aren't really practical for anything other than shooting humans at close range. Rifles have some utility for hunting.

You don't *need* a semi-auto to hunt. It's for lazy fucking hunters (same as "compound bows", but I digress) who don't want to aim their shots and want to pop off a quick 3-4 shots to make sure the thing goes down.

"Hunting" as a sport in America are a bunch of drunk assholes sitting in a blind firing 3-4 rounds at a deer trying to eat some feed 15 feet away from them. Hunting with a single shot without a feeder or with a non-compound bow is a sport.

Most of these people are treating "hunting" as the equivalent of a QTE in a game. Press A to awesome.
 
Sure if you can afford it.

Who knows what the future will bring? But I rather not do the "what if this and that".

Everyone has their own hobbies. No on should be judging your interest.

Nah, I am very comfortable judging gun collectors. There are plenty of hobbies that don't involve celebrating the killing of your fellow man.
 
Not really. That’d be like saying you have multiple cars all to get to work, when in actuality you only need one, maybe two if you live in a place with weird terrain. If you have one to defend, you can use that excuse. If you have 10, don’t lie and say it’s for defense because it’s clearly just because you like guns

Is it really that hard to understand? People COLLECT things. Whether its guns or cars or toys. I don't agree with it either but it's not unusual for people in America to own multiple if not dozens of guns.
 
People do use AR15s to hunt. Prohibition didn’t work and banning drugs didn’t work and banning firearms also won’t work. Anyway a real assault rifle is select fire and barely anyone in the country actually owns them due to high cost and high regulation of them. Regular AR15s are semi automatic
Banning drugs and alcohol isn't the same as banning firearms. The usage and logistics are entirely different.

We have many examples throughout the world of strict gun regulations working as intended.
 
They can collect something else that wasn't made with the express purpose of maiming and killing people instead.

Yes, I'm sure people who have done nothing wrong will be happy to hand over thousands of dollars worth of their own personal property to the government.
 
Yes that’s what I said, booze and guns are the same thing. That’s why you quoted me saying that.

You should read a bit more about prohibition before trotting it out as a "failed" government program. It was successful. I don't agree with the notion of prohibition mind you, but using it as a "gun control won't do a thing!" ignores the fact that it was moderately successful and it's success would have grown over time. It was just wildly unpopular.

https://alcap.thrive.am/files/66/Themes/Prohibition was a success 2.pdf
 
People do use AR15s to hunt. Prohibition didn’t work and banning drugs didn’t work and banning firearms also won’t work. Anyway a real assault rifle is select fire and barely anyone in the country actually owns them due to high cost and high regulation of them. Regular AR15s are semi automatic
Not comparable at all. The majority of people drink, the same is not true of collecting guns. It is a dedicated niche. The real problem is that people who are not interested in collecting them can still go purchase them with incredible ease
 
You should absolutely not be able to sell or give guns away to anyone without them having gone through the federal background check.
.

This guy would have gone through any background checks, clean as a whistle. His banality will be used as an argument that regulation is pointless just as any criminality he had would be also used to show he would evade background checks. Because "criminals don't care about laws".

They will fit any narrative about the shooter to suit. If you conclusively proved lack of gun regulation was the cause they would say that as a pilot he could have crashed his plane into the crowd. I am sure they have that argument on backup.
 
How do you outlaw guns and collect them all, from potential criminals and law abiding citizens alike? Aren't there like half a billion guns in the US?

I just don't see it working or ever happening so what is the alternative? I'm down for common sense regulations.
 
Much self defense with any firearm doesn’t involve shots fired. Frequently the attacker sees the weapon and runs so that is false. Police also use weapons drawn to the same effect.

Probably not a smart idea to use the police force as an example of good gun usage...
 
Yes, I'm sure people who have done nothing wrong will be happy to hand over thousands of dollars worth of their own personal property to the government.
Give them a refund for their weapons.

But, yeah, that ain't happening. Guns are a religion now in the U.S. Even talking about taking someone's pew pew away is a mortal sin.
 
People do use AR15s to hunt. Prohibition didn't work and banning drugs didn't work and banning firearms also won't work. Anyway a real assault rifle is select fire and barely anyone in the country actually owns them due to high cost and high regulation of them. Regular AR15s are semi automatic

Did you read this or no?

You are talking about how almost no one owns an automatic weapon due to the high cost and regulation of them...but then suggesting that a ban doesn't work. There is a very specific reason why people don't own assault weapons in this country, cause the legislation and federal regulations DO work.
 
Much self defense with any firearm doesn’t involve shots fired. Frequently the attacker sees the weapon and runs so that is false. Police also use weapons drawn to the same effect.

Again youre spewing a bunch of bullshit without any evidence. In fact, the presence of a firearm is likely to escalate the situation than deescalate it. See my citation above. Pulling lies out of your ass to justify your position is only making it look that much weaker.
 
Is it really that hard to understand? People COLLECT things. Whether its guns or cars or toys. I don't agree with it either but it's not unusual for people in America to own multiple if not dozens of guns.
No. I get it. I just don’t agree with keeping them around (I persobally find them interesting, and my grandfather taught me how to use them a long time ago, but certain things are prioritized beyond what someone enjoys. I will say that post is directed at the people who are in the guns for defending camp when they have 10. It’s not needed and it’s lying about the intent behind having them
 
2nd Amendment , gun-culture ,& the NRA are deadly mistakes. Guns =/= your "freedom" and this stupid hobby is not worth more than peoples' lives and safety.
 
How do you outlaw guns and collect them all, from potential criminals and law abiding citizens alike? Aren't there like half a billion guns in the US?

I just don't see it working or ever happening so what is the alternative? I'm down for common sense regulations.
It's not something that happens over night. You restrict sales and establish a buy back program.

Over time guns are either sold to the government or confiscated if they were purchased illegally.

As they disappear, they are not replenished.

The goal would be to have a drastically reduced number of firearms floating around in a decade or so.
 
Yes, I'm sure people who have done nothing wrong will be happy to hand over thousands of dollars worth of their own personal property to the government.

Nothing wrong except support the prevalence of an instrument of death that ruins the lives of many throughout our country literally every day.

I know they wouldn't be happy, but that's what makes them non-patriotic. They won't do what's best for this country and instead selfishly cling to their silly hobby.
 
Some people enjoy collecting guns.

Limitations on ownership wouldn't stop you outright owning. There is a compromise possible on the long and challenging road to some sort of reform in America.

I get it, guns are mechanical marvels. People who like anything intricate/mechanically made can appreciate the craftsmanship of guns. Ultimately though, we're not talking about model trains, metalworks, or collecting cars/car parts. Guns have a limited window of use, all of which involves... shooting. Whether it be target practice, vermin, hunting, or yeah, self-defence. Sure you can claim none of your guns are ever loaded and you just collect for looks/mechanical appreciation, but the gun itself is still limited in functionality. Comparisons to cars, knives, lightning or whatever else are just intellectually dishonest and dumb. Even knives if you want to bring them up have some restrictions, especially when it comes to pocket knives/machetes. Although, I actually have no idea what knife laws are like in America. I maybe shouldn't ask.

People that grow up collecting or see it as a hobby are emotionally attached. I get that. Maybe they're part of gun clubs, or go to conventions or simply make lots of friends and social contacts over them. Then the law, or the state, is proposed to come in and say things are changing, you might be impacted. So they get up in arms shouting about how they're one of the responsible gun owners, they have this as a hobby, they've never hurt or endangered anyone. Sure, that's probably true for many people. If you're American though and love your country, you have to take notice of what the flippant and blasé attitude to the second amendment causes across the nation.

Maybe it is going to come down to the bad owners impacting everyone, but there's soo many "bad ones", so to speak. The death counts from gun crime/attacks year on year in America are appalling. As a collective more people, even gun owners that are passionate about guns should be wanting the country to be respected a bit better by everyone in it. Also by eyes globally. Much of Europe looks at America when it comes to guns and doesn't know what to say. It's just outrageous. Civilians thinking they need to carry around assault rifles. It's like a religion that has indoctrinated soo many people past the point of reason.

No matter how much fighting, falling out, screaming, arguing and essays get written from pro-gun and anti-gun sides, there is a compromise for America. Some things need to change now, and then maybe after gun owners see an incremental change has a net positive for the country you can talk other things later down the line. Stats don't lie, right? Well, the stats for gun crime right now are appalling, why not try some changes to see if the numbers can be brought down?
 
This thread of course is the exact same as every mass shooting thread. "Fuck you I love my gun why should I give it up just because thousands are maimed and murdered."
 
Did you read this or no?

You are talking about how almost no one owns an automatic weapon due to the high cost and regulation of them...but then suggesting that a ban doesn't work. There is a very specific reason why people don't own assault weapons in this country, cause the legislation and federal regulations DO work.


They are still obtainable if someone wants to do so or illegally modify the weapon, see the North Hollywood shootout. I meant regular folks don’t have the money don’t want to go that route in general. I was mostly addressing people keep saying assault rifles and I’m not sure if we are all talking about the same thing.
 
And that's considered 'normal' over there. Fucked.
No, no that's not considered normal. Literally everyone I know owns guns. Not a single one of us does that, and frankly many of us, if not all would consider that irresponsible without even adding kids into the equation.

Mine are currently out of reach of my children and stored without ammo in the same area.
 
It's not something that happens over night. You restrict sales and establish a buy back program.

Over time guns are either sold to the government or confiscated if they were purchased illegally.

As they disappear, they are not replenished.

The goal would be to have a drastically reduced number of firearms floating around in a decade or so.

Yep. It worked with the assault weapons ban, it would still work. It would take a great deal of time and effort but it would work. Fact is, people don't want it, so we don't do it.

They are still obtainable if someone wants to do so or illegally modify the weapon, see the North Hollywood shootout. I meant regular folks don't have the money don't want to go that route in general. I was mostly addressing people keep saying assault rifles and I'm not sure if we are all talking about the same thing.

No one is arguing that they would not still be obtainable, the point is they would massively decrease the availability. Which is enough imo.

I know what an assault weapon is, I'm not really interested in getting into the rather pedantic discussion. I'm for banning magazine size, increasing background checks, getting rid of private sales i.e. gun-show bullshit, and a slew of other changes. Assault weapons, aren't something I'm exceptionally worried about because they are so prohibitively difficult to obtain and expensive...hence the reason why the legislation works.

I find it odd that you are some how advocating that the legislation doesn't work because some people can still obtain them via illegal means.
 
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