Yautja_Warrior
Member
The camera they used was able to go beyond current TV's and it's known that even REC 2020 or BT 2020 wide colour gamut only covers around 75% of what a human eye can see, so there is room for TV's to improve in the future.
Gran Turismo Sport vs Forza Motorsport 7 comparison with the Corvette C7
- Thread starter Cyriades
- Start date
The camera they used was able to go beyond current TV's and it's known that even REC 2020 or BT 2020 wide colour gamut only covers around 75% of what a human eye can see, so there is room for TV's to improve in the future.
GT's black crush problem is something happening with capture card/settings. I can confirm this having captured some footage during the beta. I was not running the game in HDR. Game looked fine on my TV with the passthrough happening while capturing, but there were crushed blacks in the captured footage.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
I don't think anyone is implying that the black crush is the game's fault.
Well, except maybe rodrigolfp 😂
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
So some people know that the problem is the capture card/settings while others call this problem "another gen lighting"?
The way it is captured has zero to do with the actual lighting engine in the game. What are you babbling about?
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
What are you babbling about? No one said that is the game fault. Point is that we can't see 100% of the lighting in the video if the capture cards are fucking the blacks/colors! duh
ReplacementPelican
Member
GT Sport looks great. Im really excited by the X and its potential but Im interested to see first party comparisons because I feel Sonys studios have a better history with their engines.
But, Forza is the game for me. Always has been, GT has always been a bit too intimidating and Ive preferred the single player experience of Forza.
Both are fantastic looking games though, really excited to play Forza and hopefully GT sometime as well (though I did play the Beta).
But, Forza is the game for me. Always has been, GT has always been a bit too intimidating and Ive preferred the single player experience of Forza.
Both are fantastic looking games though, really excited to play Forza and hopefully GT sometime as well (though I did play the Beta).
RedAssedApe
Banned
what are ya'll blabbing about
blurredvision
Member
What camera are you referring to exactly? This is a video game. (Serious question, not trying to hunt you down.)
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
I've attended a couple of presentations from Kaz on GT Sports over the past few years (even interviewed him once) and his technical ambitions for the game are off the charts... whether they can be delivered though?
Racing games threads have been quite a ride today !! You can clearly see the two camps battling it out.
Can't wait to play GTS next week on the Pro. And can't wait to play F7 on the X next month. I expect both to look great and edging themselves out in different aspects visually (and non-visually).
Can't wait to play GTS next week on the Pro. And can't wait to play F7 on the X next month. I expect both to look great and edging themselves out in different aspects visually (and non-visually).
wumster3000
Member
Gran Turismo has static time of day and no dynamic weather correct? Not trying to take away from GT but I think Forza and PC are doing more technically.
found this:
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/how-gran-turismo-sport-makes-cars-look-awesome-with-hdr/#/3
probably something they designed together with sony.
PodcastFips
Member
K.O. win for GT Sport here. Not only lighting, but also track detail.
The king is back?
The king is back?
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Data capture using a bespoke camera developed by PDI.
I'm no expert on this stuff, so not exactly sure how it all works but they used some special tech to capture the data for the HDR / wide colour gamut.
I'd imagine could create one with a microlenslet array and a standard image sensor, it would be lower resolution, but it would capture the dynamic range would want.
Current cameras already have the ability to capture wide color gamut, most are already capturing 14bit colour.
But without a standard image format that supports it, software that can support it and hardware that can display it, its been mostly irrelevant.
But again, there is some huge confusion between what is WCG and what is HDR.
Prithee Be Careful
Industry Professional
I suppose 'technical' might have different definitions depending how you look it. I was talking more about replication of physics, use of display technologies, recreation of real world locations, etc - I remember there were a lot of graphs and acronyms involved
wumster3000
Member
I would rather have dynamic weather and day night cycles. One reason why I chose Driveclub over Forza 6. It takes away from other resource to implement these features. Static time of day and no weather is less of a technical feat IMO, when other racers have dynamic features. I guess Im not as impressed with GTS as others due to this fact. That Forza rain gif looks better IMO. From a pure technical standpoint.I suppose 'technical' might have different definitions depending how you look it. I was talking more about replication of physics, use of display technologies, recreation of real world locations, etc - I remember there were a lot of graphs and acronyms involved
Edit:
I code GPU drivers which is another reason why I find Forza more technically impressive. Doesnt mean I know everything or trying to downplay your firsthand information from PD, please dont take it that way.
NullPointer
Member
You're right, but when comparing Forza to DriveClub, DC's rain effects are incredible, visually, hands down, but man do you feel them a lot more in Forza (and PCars 2 for that matter). Pick your poison I guess.
wumster3000
Member
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
If the only reply is a fault of the video capture then that only goes to show how faultless GTS's lighting is.
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Dam that lighting difference is huge, also the trees look a lot better in GTS.
plagiarize
Banned
No one caring about the frametimes being all fucked up in the Forza 7 footage makes me feel like an alien.
Forza 7 runs as fluid as GTS on Xbox hardware. What ever the shit is causing the awful frame issues in he Forza 7 footage isn't remotely representative of the game running on anything other than this one guys PC. It's fucked up.
And no one else even seems to have noticed.
Forza 7 runs as fluid as GTS on Xbox hardware. What ever the shit is causing the awful frame issues in he Forza 7 footage isn't remotely representative of the game running on anything other than this one guys PC. It's fucked up.
And no one else even seems to have noticed.
shpankey
not an idiot
WOW! The way Forza 7 reacts to the road, the vibration and up and down movement of the road and the car, and how the car reacts to it is LIGHT-YEARS beyond GT in this video. It's very visceral looking and adds another layer of depth and connectivity to the experience. It feels connected to the road.... almost real. Very, very impressive!
GT almost seems to hover along with not much real movement , so it comes off as disconnected and stale to me. Clearly missing this aspect by comparison. Graphics do look better albeit too dark (in this video) but I will say, Forza 7 looks markedly better on my PC rig, but I'm assuming this is Xbox??. On my PC, I feel like the graphics definitely are as good as GT shown here, with not as good lighting (obviously, GT shines there). I have no framerate issues either. But on a good rig, nobody will be disappointed in the graphics in F7, trust me. They are fantastic. So it's more about the driving and realism to me, and I have no doubt Forza will win out on that, having played so may GT games for countless hours over the years, I'm seeing the same thing here as in all of those.
I will also add, the left to right movement and the sliding, etc, is also much better in Forza, and more realistic. GT seems very tame, neutral and lacking here. GT still has a looong way to go to get w/ the big boy PC sims (not counting Forza in those btw, but Forza is clearly better here than GT) in terms of physics (in particular, suspension, tire and road physics)... and it needs to be more raw, more visceral. You can tell by watching both side by side this and the other things I mentioned, this very obvious difference, but please also note the "sense of speed" these little things that make driving not only feel and look better, but also add to that sense of speed as well. Just look at them both, on the left it looks slow vs the right, looks fast, despite actually being the same. All of this better pulls you into the experience for that adrenaline rush.
To be clear, my impression is one of clinical staleness w/ GT. Very clean, very sterile and calm. Nothing like racing should be. I will reserve further judgment until release, out of respect, but my early impressions are "more of the same, w/ prettier graphics". But one can hope.
Edit: this is PC Forza? wow, this guy's rig SUCKS. that is not a very good representation as to what it actually looks like w/ all the graphics maxed at >100fps
I'll step out from here, as I'm not trying to pee in anyone's cheerios... whatever one likes the most, is up to them. Just dropping my 2 cents for my opinion on what I'm seeing and I don't want to get into an argument over opinions. I'm sure mine stinks as much as everyone elses.
GT almost seems to hover along with not much real movement , so it comes off as disconnected and stale to me. Clearly missing this aspect by comparison. Graphics do look better albeit too dark (in this video) but I will say, Forza 7 looks markedly better on my PC rig, but I'm assuming this is Xbox??. On my PC, I feel like the graphics definitely are as good as GT shown here, with not as good lighting (obviously, GT shines there). I have no framerate issues either. But on a good rig, nobody will be disappointed in the graphics in F7, trust me. They are fantastic. So it's more about the driving and realism to me, and I have no doubt Forza will win out on that, having played so may GT games for countless hours over the years, I'm seeing the same thing here as in all of those.
I will also add, the left to right movement and the sliding, etc, is also much better in Forza, and more realistic. GT seems very tame, neutral and lacking here. GT still has a looong way to go to get w/ the big boy PC sims (not counting Forza in those btw, but Forza is clearly better here than GT) in terms of physics (in particular, suspension, tire and road physics)... and it needs to be more raw, more visceral. You can tell by watching both side by side this and the other things I mentioned, this very obvious difference, but please also note the "sense of speed" these little things that make driving not only feel and look better, but also add to that sense of speed as well. Just look at them both, on the left it looks slow vs the right, looks fast, despite actually being the same. All of this better pulls you into the experience for that adrenaline rush.
To be clear, my impression is one of clinical staleness w/ GT. Very clean, very sterile and calm. Nothing like racing should be. I will reserve further judgment until release, out of respect, but my early impressions are "more of the same, w/ prettier graphics". But one can hope.
Edit: this is PC Forza? wow, this guy's rig SUCKS. that is not a very good representation as to what it actually looks like w/ all the graphics maxed at >100fps
I'll step out from here, as I'm not trying to pee in anyone's cheerios... whatever one likes the most, is up to them. Just dropping my 2 cents for my opinion on what I'm seeing and I don't want to get into an argument over opinions. I'm sure mine stinks as much as everyone elses.
thelastword
Banned
Is he even in there? I see no light sources bouncing off the car to show me he is in there?
.....but with those pitstops in Forza 7, I won't be surprised.....People are doubting this? A company that makes the best cameras in the world and some of the best TV's?......
BBQ_of_DOOM
Member
Is he even in there? I see no light sources bouncing off the car to show me he is in there?
People are doubting this? A company that makes the best cameras in the world and some of the best TV's?......
I find it a bit comical that folks are doubting the aspirations and designs of one of the most detail-focused studios/leads in the industry.
Liliana Eileen
Member
Gonna be exciting to see what happens when DF compares both games lol
LordOcidax
Member
This thread is good. Cant wait for the DF analysis of GTS, they are going to drop some true facts and fuel the war.
D'ultimate
Member
I said something similar in the graphics comparison thread about a GTS vs PC2 video. While GTS may win the graphics comparison it looks so stale and boring. So sterile. The car just glides over the pavement and gives no real sense of connection to the pavement or that feeling of speed. It's just so...meh.
While I'm at it, the way the driver holds the steering wheel is so indicative of this. It's like he's test driving a sedan all the time or just out for a Sunday drive. I'm not saying it's not realistic or what have you but that shit really bothers me. Grip the damn steering wheel like you're driving a high powered vehicle not some freaking go kart.
l2ounD
Member
Maintenance
Member
D'ultimate
Member
I'm not the biggest fan of Forza hands either and have criticized them in the past. However, they are much better than the GTS ones.
Those F1 hands are nice though.
Love that sense of speed that's depicted in the F7 video. That shaky cam doing work. Can't see why people don't like it.
Naudyboy16
Member
The time and day wasn't similar which makes it a bit harder to compare but GT's lighting is truly godly, it makes Forza which on its own looks great, but comparing both it's very clear.
With that being said, I've never liked the handling in the GT games, it looks like the car is sliding instead of turning, Forza in my opinion has always just felt better.
4k will make a big difference in person. The Forza series has come a long way in terms of its visuals and art style and I've loved it, but GT does look better regarding this specific video and it's lighting condition.
With that being said, I've never liked the handling in the GT games, it looks like the car is sliding instead of turning, Forza in my opinion has always just felt better.
4k will make a big difference in person. The Forza series has come a long way in terms of its visuals and art style and I've loved it, but GT does look better regarding this specific video and it's lighting condition.
PeterLegend
Member
People keep saying Turn 10 doesn't have enough time to work on the lighting engine or graphics....But this is their 3rd iteration on current gen to improve each time.
Just saying...
Just saying...
Insane Metal
Member
This thread is good. Cant wait for the DF analysis of GTS, they are going to drop some truthfacts and fuel the war.
FTFY
Futaleufu
Member
Don't let facts get in the way of fanboyism.
It was the very first thing I noticed. F7 looks a hell of a lot better than this running on my PC. GTS looks great, though.
plagiarize
Banned
It does. Which is why we don't need a bullshit comparison like this.
Unless the point of it, is to highlight the performance issues this guy is having on his PC, and the problems using a capture card to capture GTS footage.
WaterAstro
Member
PS4 Pro vs Max PC?
Guess power doesn't matter more than devs actually using the power.
We're going to need that GT vs Forza thread again....
Guess power doesn't matter more than devs actually using the power.
We're going to need that GT vs Forza thread again....
Insane Metal
Member
^Those pics
GTS looks much better in all of them.
GTS looks much better in all of them.
pixelation
Member
Is that the only retort you have when shown proof that GT looks better/more life like?