Support NeoGAF

[Skullface]

So I just wanted to share why I'm disappointed with this whole situation. I got approved in 2014. It was a tough year for me. My ex left the state with another guy and took our daughter with her. I lost my apartment, my job, and became addicted to heroin. The only social interactions I had for a while was with users in the OT. I got a lot of support, and got through some tough times.

On New Years Eve, I had nothing to do, no place to go, so I hung out on Gaf. Me and two other users put together a 30 second song by exchanging a rhythm track I recorded, and then recording a contribution, and ultimately mix it into what it became. The track is called The Real NeoGAF Blues. Appropriate, no?

https://soundcloud.com/alex-noviello/skullface/recommended

Shout out to Eyeball_Kid, who sings on the track. I wish I remembered who played lead, but it was another GAF user. I'm on acoustic. Amazing that we three, not even being in the same countries, were able to product a song.

 

[Raptomex]

What mods? They are all anonymous now. You can't ask anyone.

People want to leave and go to the communities they have helped built all these years, but they can't leave if they can't get into the communities because Evilore is supressing any and every talk about them in any way, in such a way that people can't even invite others for game groups to organize matches and use voice chat.

I get it but there's other platforms to exchange this information. I don't agree with the blocking of the links either.

It seems that some say they're leaving the site but then start asking for links and discuss joining a competitive site on the site they're leaving. But the whole PM thing is overboard.

 

[prag16]

this new clone forum everyone is talking about, is it not just going to be a carbon copy of Neogaf? same old neogaf mods and the same old neogaf users will populate it. i mean, they even talked about how to secure your neogaf username over at that new place. not being rude, but how will it be different?

Biggest difference? Evilore won't be in charge. That's enough for a lot of people. I don't know. The list of admins/mods is out there, and inspires very mixed feelings. Most likely scenario? It'll probably end up a lot like gaf OT with how it's moderated. And the community will be MUCH smaller.

I may make account over there at some point when I'm able. A lot of the people that contributed in OTs and community threads that I've liked are going over there. But I'm not leaving here either.

 

[Euphoria14]

I stopped watching Better Call Saul after the second season. Think it's worth watching the 3rd season? It has it's moments, but I found it to not be worth following. Then again, I thought so after season 2 of Breaking Bad at the time. Boy was I wrong.

I also love the Ralph Steadman art for BB, as a huge fan of HST. I bet Thompson would roll with Heisenburg!

I haven’t even started Better Call Saul.

My memories of Breaking Bad and it’s characters do not allow me to see them in anything else.

Were the first two seasons good?

 

[Any Questions]

So I just wanted to share why I'm disappointed with this whole situation. I got approved in 2014. It was a tough year for me. My ex left the state with another guy and took our daughter with her. I lost my apartment, my job, and became addicted to heroin. The only social interactions I had for a while was with users in the OT. I got a lot of support, and got through some tough times.

On New Years Eve, I had nothing to do, no place to go, so I hung out on Gaf. Me and two other users put together a 30 second song by exchanging a rhythm track I recorded, and then recording a contribution, and ultimately mix it into what it became. The track is called The Real NeoGAF Blues. Appropriate, no?

https://soundcloud.com/alex-noviello/skullface/recommended

Shout out to Eyeball_Kid, who sings on the track. I wish I remembered who played lead, but it was another GAF user. I'm on acoustic. Amazing that we three, not even being in the same countries, were able to product a song.

That's a cool story chap. Hope things are better for you now

 

[kess]

I would actually like to see a social forum that is essentially what GAF's OT was. I disagree with the great majority of people's opinions on GAF, though I never thought it was my responsibility, nor was I ever interested in changing minds. With that being said, I always felt like the vast majority of users were respectful in their exchanges with one another, in a way you certainly wouldn't see on GFAQs, 4chan, or even Reddit.

Yeah. The worst thing was moderator favoritism, which is replaced by a complete opacity now.

 

[Ethelwulf]

Okay maybe a dumb question but...

Like evillore or not, why is the knee jerk reaction to take the allegations as true from the get go?

Shouldn't there be a stage of investigation and getting to the bottom of things? Seems like in this day and age, a woman can accuse a man of sexual assault, and whether he did it or not doesn't matter, the accusation enough is to condemn him.

Not saying these women are lying, but it's possible that some are for a quick buck. Sexual assault is horrible, but just because someone is accused of something, no matter how horrible, doesn't mean they did it.

I don't know the details, just seems like a knee jerk reaction alot of the time, and people wanting to condemn someone regardless of the validity of the info being provided. Smells like a lot of confirmation bias and people just waiting for a crusade to jump on as long g as it fits a certain narrative...

My observation as a casual member. I have no stake in this.

All this is more about the response and the events that followed.

 

[flkraven]

Okay maybe a dumb question but...

Like evillore or not, why is the knee jerk reaction to take the allegations as true from the get go?

Shouldn't there be a stage of investigation and getting to the bottom of things? Seems like in this day and age, a woman can accuse a man of sexual assault, and whether he did it or not doesn't matter, the accusation enough is to condemn him.

Not saying these women are lying, but it's possible that some are for a quick buck. Sexual assault is horrible, but just because someone is accused of something, no matter how horrible, doesn't mean they did it.

I don't know the details, just seems like a knee jerk reaction alot of the time, and people wanting to condemn someone regardless of the validity of the info being provided. Smells like a lot of confirmation bias and people just waiting for a crusade to jump on as long g as it fits a certain narrative...

My observation as a casual member. I have no stake in this.

You can completely ignore the allegations entirely and still find several things to hate with the way he handled it, past actions, etc.

 

[Skullface]

I haven’t even started Better Call Saul.

My memories of Breaking Bad and it’s characters do not allow me to see them in anything else.

Were the first two seasons good?

They weren't bad. It's just poorly paced. They introduced a bunch of new characters that are hard to care about. The best scenes involve Saul's interactions with Mike, but they are few and far between. There's a fair amount of Mike, but it usually involves him in a side story that's loosely related to what's going on in Saul's larger plot.

 

[Real Hero]

My observation as a casual member. I have no stake in this.

sounds like you do, there's been plenty of posts detailing everything on here so you aren't saying anything new

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I don’t understand how we lost OT and political discussion as a result of the scandal. What do they have to do with each other?

Nothing. The dark turn that OT had taken has nothing to do with thissituation, so it seems to me like it's been done simply to deflect and distract. Getting rid of political and social discussion on the Forums also looks like a feeble attempt as burying any future possibility of the issue of feminism and sexual harassment bubbling up on GAF again, which would inevitably lead to people to bring up the accusation against EviLore.

Problem is, after how badly this whole situation has been handled, that's never going away.

 

[Skullface]

That's a cool story chap. Hope things are better for you now

Things are much better. I'm getting married, have had a second daughter, and regularly get to see my oldest. I'm also sober.

 

[wachie]

I have no idea what you want me to say, or expect me to say. I am someone gravely disappointed with what has happened, how it was handled, and how things are playing out. But I'm not going to leave and cede GAF to GG types. Make up your mind about how you want to proceed and follow through, the same as everyone else.

I want you to say what other point of contentions were being filtered at the new boards? I listed a few like homophobic, racist, sexist etc. you keep beating around the bush with a few mentions of Politics but dont outright say what you think will be filtered there.

Regarding ceding GAF to GG types and alt-right, regardless of what you, me and countless others do it, it seems already be in motion with the types of comments and opinions that are in free flow now which would have been previously dealt with right away. It's coming from the top down and you cant stop people from leaving or joining. What is allowed and not allowed is beyond your control too, if you seriously think you are the tide that is going to bring or stop the change, then sadly you are mistaken.

 

[Nowise10]

Okay can we take away the ability for juniors to post links cus i'm pretty sure I just clicked a virus link in this thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252842230&postcount=7167

 

[prag16]

Nothing. The dark turn that OT had taken has nothing to do with thissituation, so it seems to me like it's been done simply to deflect and distract. Getting rid of political and social discussion on the Forums also looks like a feeble attempt as burying any future possibility of the issue of feminism and sexual harassment bubbling up on GAF again, which would inevitably lead to people to bring up the accusation against EviLore.

Problem is, after how badly this whole situation has been handled, that's never going away.

I don't think it's QUITE that sinister, even though that may be part of it. The biggest issue is all the moderators left. OT would be a total unmoderatable shit show for a while until things calm down.

 

[Pandy]

On top of that PM's no longer allow links & have a 10 min timer, assumedly to shut down discord information sharing so people can hook up with their old communities, disappointing to see it coming to this.

Ach, seems that I've missed the boat for a Discord invite, then.

Guess I can lurk the 'other' until they feel safe to open membership up.

 

[Ethelwulf]

Okay can we take away the ability for juniors to post links cus i'm pretty sure I just clicked a virus link in this thread

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=252842230&postcount=7167

'Let's limit all juniors based on one example'.

 

[Calderc]

Is the other forum open yet?

 

[Nowise10]

'Let's limit all juniors based on one example'.

And posting porn in other threads.

Seen like 50 examples of burner junior accounts the past 2 days trying to cause harm.

 

[Interfectum]

And posting porn in other threads.

Seen like 50 examples of burner junior accounts the past 2 days trying to cause harm.

Over time that will die down and mods will be able to keep that in check. Right now they are probably overloaded with shit to moderate due to account suicides, etc.

 

[HariKari]

I want you to say what other point of contentions were being filtered at the new boards? I listed a few like homophobic, racist, sexist etc. you keep beating around the bush with a few mentions of Politics but dont outright say what you think will be filtered there.

I don't care about the new board. I think you got your wires crossed. My gripes are with how the old OT was handled here. It was far from the utopia some describe it as, especially when we know mods have been removed for quiet bans. For the most part, bans were deserved, but there was a disconcerting amount that really weren't. The tone was also decidedly hostile towards anyone who wasn't following along, even if their take was completely innocuous. It devolved into a place of nodding in agreement rather than open discussion.

Regarding ceding GAF to GG types and alt-right, regardless of what you, me and countless others do it, it seems already be in motion with the types of comments and opinions that are in free flow now which would have been previously dealt with right away. It's coming from the top down and you cant stop people from leaving or joining. What is allowed and not allowed is beyond your control too, if you seriously think you are the tide that is going to bring or stop the change, then sadly you are mistaken.

The moderation load is high because people who have no intention of staying can't just quietly dip out - they have to shit on this place and make it hard for the mods. People who say heinous shit are still being banned, so your concern seems unwarranted. It seems like you consider the slightest amount of pushback to be offensive though, so I can't say I'm surprised at your misrepresentation of the situation.

If you want to talk about tides, you should talk about the part of the mod team that quit at the drop of the hat and plunged the community into chaos. They could have waited for a public statement and then been very vocal about their desire for Evilore to step down. So too could all the members that left. Instead, we get people flaming out in spectacular fashion because that's cool to do, I guess? You're right, no one ordinary user is going to change shit, but I've made my choice. I suggest you do the same.

 

[Negator]

Over time that will die down and mods will be able to keep that in check. Right now they are probably overloaded with shit to moderate due to account suicides, etc.

That or eventually there will be nothing left to moderate.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I don't think it's QUITE that sinister, even though that may be part of it. The biggest issue is all the moderators left. OT would be a total unmoderatable shit show for a while until things calm down.

Maybe I'm just flustered and seeing the worst in an already bad situation, but what you say is true. It was a mess even with the mods still around in my opinion.

 

[Bloodporne]

They weren't bad. It's just poorly paced. They introduced a bunch of new characters that are hard to care about. The best scenes involve Saul's interactions with Mike, but they are few and far between. There's a fair amount of Mike, but it usually involves him in a side story that's loosely related to what's going on in Saul's larger plot.

I haven’t even started Better Call Saul.

My memories of Breaking Bad and it’s characters do not allow me to see them in anything else.

Were the first two seasons good?

I have to disagree with Skullface, I think it's an absolutely amazing show and I love the heavy, heavy emphasis on character development. Especially the last season was great. I can see the criticisms of it being quite slow pacing wise, but outside of that, I think it's just as intelligent and witty as Breaking Bad.

I especially like Kim and Chuck, great characters all around.

 

[RobotNinjaHornets]

So let me get this straight

You get accused of sexual assault
The mods leave
NeoGAF goes down
You spend the time it's down coming up with some bullshit statement
You pretend the mods left through stress because OT was too toxic, and so shut down OT so people don't dicuss you being a disgusting wankstain of a human
To cover up the fact that there are no mods, you claim mods are going undercover

Sound about right? I mean I can always chevk with someone who might be able to corroborate, like, oh I dunno, an ex-mod?

Oh and fucking lmao at people claiming this was a far left forum. Oh you little babies, this was lib as shit, try hanging out with some literal communists like me some time. I mean, don't actually do that because we'll all think you're twats, but still. Unless you have regular arguments between anarchists and Marxist-Leninists arguing about the USSR and jokes about the kulaks deserving worse, you are a long way from far left

Anyway, as I imagine I'm probably getting banned for this, I think I'll say my final goodbye.

Fuck you Tyler. Hope you enjoy your new right-wing shithole of apologists for sexual assault. Have a shit life, and fuck off.

Believe? Believe Women.

Apparently I haven't been banned.

Well then let me make myself clear.

Fuck this, fuck Evilore, fuck anyone who thinks what Evilore did is ok, this site should be nuked, anyone who isn't the least bit uncomfortable posting here now is a cunt and Evilore along with all sexual abusers should get put in a fucking gulag

Better?

 

[Skullface]

I have to disagree with Skullface, I think it's an absolutely amazing show and I love the heavy, heavy emphasis on character development. Especially the last season was great. I can see the criticisms of it being quite slow pacing wise, but outside of that, I think it's just as intelligent and witty as Breaking Bad.

I especially like Kim and Chuck, great characters all around.

I'm willing to give it another go. Like I said earlier, I wrote BB off prematurely and now it's my favorite US TV series.

 

[Gormenghast]

this new clone forum everyone is talking about, is it not just going to be a carbon copy of Neogaf? same old neogaf mods and the same old neogaf users will populate it.

Actually a number of GAF mods have publicly dissociated themselves from that site.

https://twitter.com/Aeana/status/922964158676643840
https://twitter.com/RollingPirahna/status/922574952301076480

 

[Raptomex]

Apparently I haven't been banned.

Well then let me make myself clear.

Fuck this, fuck Evilore, fuck anyone who thinks what Evilore did is ok, this site should be nuked, anyone who isn't the least bit uncomfortable posting here now is a cunt and Evilore along with all sexual abusers should get put in a fucking gulag

Better?

Why not just leave and not come back? Done.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

Apparently I haven't been banned.

Well then let me make myself clear.

Fuck this, fuck Evilore, fuck anyone who thinks what Evilore did is ok, this site should be nuked, anyone who isn't the least bit uncomfortable posting here now is a cunt and Evilore along with all sexual abusers should get put in a fucking gulag

Better?

EDIT: People can't take a fucking joke

 

[Skullface]

Why not just leave? Don't come back. Done.

Seconded. People are upset, understandably so. But it's like being banned is this club that people want to join so they can make this situation about them.

 

[Sephzilla]

yes, people who are upset that someone who did some pretty bad shit are babies

 

[Nabbis]

Why not just leave and not come back? Done.

You need to have pure blood to be accepted into the new kingdom. Severing all ties with your former debauchery is only proper.

 

[dolabla]

Okay maybe a dumb question but...

Like evillore or not, why is the knee jerk reaction to take the allegations as true from the get go?

Shouldn't there be a stage of investigation and getting to the bottom of things? Seems like in this day and age, a woman can accuse a man of sexual assault, and whether he did it or not doesn't matter, the accusation enough is to condemn him.

Not saying these women are lying, but it's possible that some are for a quick buck. Sexual assault is horrible, but just because someone is accused of something, no matter how horrible, doesn't mean they did it.

I don't know the details, just seems like a knee jerk reaction alot of the time, and people wanting to condemn someone regardless of the validity of the info being provided. Smells like a lot of confirmation bias and people just waiting for a crusade to jump on as long g as it fits a certain narrative...

My observation as a casual member. I have no stake in this.

Nah, you're 100% right.

This mentality of guilty until proven innocent has thrived on this board. It created a monster.

You had people saying things like that the woman should be believed 100% of the time, no questions asked. Of course you always want to believe the victim, but there have been plenty of cases in the past where people are wrongfully accused. You always want to look at the facts of the case.

In this case, you have a he said she said type deal and she dated him supposedly after the fact. None of us know what happened, but that is a red flag to me. He also says he has the proof and witnesses so why not let him present that.

 

[Lucumo]

Actually a number of GAF mods have publicly dissociated themselves from that site.

https://twitter.com/Aeana/status/922964158676643840

I guess that's interesting, considering everyone so far has been saying otherwise.

Why not just leave and not come back? Done.

Or they could just PM a mod and ask for that. Then the process would certainly be faster.

 

[The Sum of Zero]

yes, people who are upset that someone who did some pretty bad shit are babies

He can be upset without acting like a degenerate when leaving.

 

[rochellepaws]

You're right, it's not a mitigating factor. My suggestion that women are better advised these days wasn't to lay any blame at the feet of women in the years before that, to the contrary, I am saying that the prevalence of revenge porn has lessened because - exactly as you state - there are consequences now. Everyone is aware of where it can lead. I have a friend who tongue firmly in cheek, often says AMAB. Meaning All Men Are Bastards. Of course, that's not true, but a large quantity of them have the potential to be. A lot of them have been in the past. A lot of them will be in the future. And that's a shame. You're right, people should be able to trust others, and events like the one we're talking about are why people don't.

I don't have anything to add but thank you for clarifying.

 

[Zen Aku]

The Evilore's defend force had arrived.


And no, Evilore's doesn't deserve any decency. He certainly didn't show women any.

 

[nitronite]

I guess that's interesting, considering everyone so far has been saying otherwise.



Or they could just PM a mod and ask for that. Then the process would certainly be faster.

You could say that they've fallen victim to... Fake News (TM)

 

[Liquid-San]

Apparently I haven't been banned.

Well then let me make myself clear.

Fuck this, fuck Evilore, fuck anyone who thinks what Evilore did is ok, this site should be nuked, anyone who isn't the least bit uncomfortable posting here now is a cunt and Evilore along with all sexual abusers should get put in a fucking gulag

Better?

Lol, talk about childish.

The Evilore's defend force had arrived.


And no, Evilore's doesn't deserve any decency. He certainly didn't show women any.

Or they can be talking about the post in question? And we wonder how the GAF Community got here lol.

 

[SuperDowns]

I thought the altsite was this one?

Hahaha nice

 

[Buzzman]

Apparently I haven't been banned.

Well then let me make myself clear.

Fuck this, fuck Evilore, fuck anyone who thinks what Evilore did is ok, this site should be nuked, anyone who isn't the least bit uncomfortable posting here now is a cunt and Evilore along with all sexual abusers should get put in a fucking gulag

Better?

I don't think the mods read this thread lol

 

[Skullface]

The Evilore's defend force had arrived.

How was that in defense of Evilore?

 

[Raptomex]

Seconded. People are upset, understandably so. But it's like being banned is this club that people want to join so they can make this situation about them.

Some can't even take the ban. They need their account deleted.

You need to have pure blood to be accepted into the new kingdom. Severing all ties with your former debauchery is only proper.

But they'll know deep inside that they were once members of Satan's army.

Or they could just PM a mod and ask for that. Then the process would certainly be faster.

Depends on how fast they expect it to happen. Doesn't a PM take 10 minutes to send now? That might be too long to wait to be cleansed.

 

[Markoman]

Apparently I haven't been banned.

Well then let me make myself clear.

Fuck this, fuck Evilore, fuck anyone who thinks what Evilore did is ok, this site should be nuked, anyone who isn't the least bit uncomfortable posting here now is a cunt and Evilore along with all sexual abusers should get put in a fucking gulag

Better?

Being put into a concentration camp for grabbing some ass, a failed "naked man" and some shitty revenge porn? You want that? Here's a travelling advise: North Korea

Exactly the type of hyprocrisy that was luring on this board for quite a while now.
We have a thread on the first page about "showing true colors". I assume the OP meant both sides, right?

Yes, all the stuff Evilore has done/(or not) is shitty, but the way people are reacting especially the terminoloy used by the extiters isn't putting them in a good light.

You want others to follow suit/ to take a stance? Then stop wishing others to be sent to a Gulag or calling them cunts, asshole, whatever.

 

[NickWright]

Do I need to insult someone to get banned?

I certainly don’t want to say no slurs for it either

 

[The Sum of Zero]

The Evilore's defend force had arrived.

Calling out people that are leaving via rude and idiotic grandstanding is being part of a defense force? Okay son.

 

[Raptomex]

Do I need to insult someone to get banned?

I certainly don’t want to say no slurs for it either

You could just leave and not come back.

 

[GSG Flash]

I thought the altsite was this one?

Savage

But so true

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Now instead of actually refuting what happened, he's removed OT and banned all Political and social threads, then blamed OT for all of this.

It is largely this simple.

I've been mostly done with NeoGAF for months largely because of a lot of what the "games only" crowd are complaining about. However I differ pretty clearly with many of this crew as I relish many of those OT discussions. I've learned a lot here, and as a liberal it's been a stronghold of fresh ideas and perspectives for me.

I disagree that you couldn't share controversial opinions, but the fact that mods were preferential to certain posters is well documented and was troublesome.

That said, that isn't why the site has changed, it's changed because Evilore needs his own safe space now, and he can't get it without silencing the majority of non-gaming discourse. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too, and I'm not going to be one of the ones continuing to feed him. Maybe he can go into affiliate marketing or dropshipping, I know I sure don't give a fuck.

There's mass confusion in here right now over motivations for leaving the site, motivations for why the site has changed, and motivations for why some are staying.

What's clear though is the following:

• This site will take months to have a near tolerable level of moderation, and is and will continue to tolerate thinly veiled bigotry and misogyny by default until it is.
• The site is flooded right now with people who never wanted the site as it has been for years and yet continued to patronize it. Many seem to want something between GameFAQs and Kotaku-In-Action with a slightly more tolerable aesthetic and people with a functioning vocabulary. This site will probably be what they want from here out.
• The site will never again be what it was, and people who liked what it was will want a new place that is close. This is reasonable and may or may not succeed. One thing is for sure, like them or not, the site will have more mods than this place will for months.

Beyond that, people like me were tired of GAF already because it was an echo chamber, but it remained an echo chamber with intentions and motivations largely aligned with my own, and I will not apologize for contributing to something which I felt was mostly a positive voice. I just felt the approach was veering off-course, and I disagreed with the preferential moderation insofar as it reinforced toxicity between people who should be allies. This is a general statement and I'm not specifically calling this out with a type of thread in mind.

With better quality of discussion, it could have been more of the place I felt it was when I first joined, where liberals could learn about their hidden biases and maybe grow into something more progressive, instead of just a series of verbal litmus tests.

So yes, there are many who happily moved on from GAF, but are happy to move to something similar in hopes maybe things can grow in a different way. I will not be heartbroken if it fails, but a lot of people I respect will be there, and I think it deserves a chance.

GAF, in my opinion, no longer does, and to be crystal clear I feel that way not for what it has been recently, but for what it will be from here out.

 

[Clockwork]

And no, Evilore's doesn't deserve any decency. He certainly didn't show women any.

His accuser had no problem showing some decency by engaging in a sexual relationship afterwards. If she was cool with it as the "victim" then who am I to judge?