Kingdom Come: Deliverance Documentary (talk about development incl. "controversy")
- Thread starter Denton
- Start date
klosos
Member
ill watch this when i get time , i enjoyed the game before i had to stop because of a bug with Capon followign me around everywhere ( annoying as shit )
dude i looked through the thread on the purple place , you got a 1 week ban for not wanting to argue about gamergate lol
dude i looked through the thread on the purple place , you got a 1 week ban for not wanting to argue about gamergate lol
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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Darkking2001
Banned
You know id be just abit worried about the creators agenda he had when making this game based off what he said on twitt....WOOPS WRONG THREAD
Denton
Banned
huh?
Boss Mog
Member
To think that people with an agenda were harassing Vavra about the lack of black people in 15th century Bohemia. You don't even see many black people in the Czech Republic today so back then it's not even a question that there were none. I wonder if these same bitter people will go after Sucker Punch because there's no black people in Ghosts of Tsushima which takes place in 13th century Japan. If not, why not? What is their criteria to complain about the lack of black people in historical games taking place in times and locations where there were none? I have a pretty good idea what it is though...
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cubicle47b
Member
That was an interesting doc. I haven't played the game, but maybe if the right Steam sale comes at the right time I'll pick it up.
SpiceRacz
Member
I would love for someone from ERA to explain how that is worthy of a ban.
Caayn
Member
The tone of the posts after my last post and the ban I eventually received (incl. the ban message) are the exact reason why I don't want to talk about this stuff online. People are way too eager to jump at your throat and those people proved that imo.
Funny how things go. Ah well.
Doczu
Member
Dude, you got silenced for a week for that and another poster got permed for telling the truth about a pic that was posted just to troll the CtrlLeft on the web.
KevinKeene
Banned
klosos
Member
Oh wow I just saw this ultrawide review
and damn it makes me wanna buy ultrawide screen
I would highly recommend a 21:9 monitor ultrawide screen , the games that take full advantage ( which majority of larger game studios do ) of the aspect ratio , its a complete game changer to me , its one of the reason's why i have no interest in 4k at 16:9 to be honest . GTA5 , Far CRY 5 ,Witcher 3 on PC with a ultrawide monitor is fantastic.
one issue tho even today most cutscenes are rendered at 16:9 so on a ultrawide you get black borders down the sides which is a shame.
FranXico
Member
I've given up on Eurogamer a long time ago. When they aren't spouting pseudo-intellectual garbage defending their "progressive" views, they write factually incorrect news and articles for the sake of console wars.
Suffice to say, not all of the staff behaves like that. But the ones who do are very enthusiastic about their biases, to the extreme.
Denton
Banned
Yeah I believe you. I started playing on 55" plasma few years back but lately I was thinking about trying out the monitor gaming again. If I do upgrade from the NEC 24" I got, it will definitely be for ultrawide.
EG.net does some good longform pieces from time to time, often written by Purchese. Which is why I was so surprised about his embarassing Kingdome Come review. He even spends most of the review praising the game, but then dunks the recommendation so moronically.
Funnily enough, both of Dan Vávra's previous games got 4/10 from EG, the masterpiece Mafia 1 and the not-masterpiece-but-still-great Mafia 2. It is almost comical.
I still like lof of the stuff Digital Foundry does there at least.
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wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Hey all,
Editor of the documentary here. Just wanted to say thanks to those of you that did watch it, really appreciate it. First hour long edit for me personally, so was definitely nervous about releasing that...not to mention with the controversy discussion in it included.
Been lurking over these threads just to read the feedback and all that. Definitely didn't go to ResetERA to troll or anything, literally went there to thank people for watching the doc and made the wrong call in getting involved in the discussion by answering questions about the controversy. I'm happy to answer questions about stuff like that, but unfortunately it seems I didn't word it the way I intended, or my comments got cherry picked into creating a narrative.
Anyways, thanks again for the feedback if you did leave feedback on it! I try to read everything as we don't have an established following and are trying to build a positive community around our content. Stuff like what happened over at Reset is pretty draining, so I try to stay away from that as much as possible. If you're curious, our next doc is covering Larian Studios and Divinity: Original Sin. Already in editing so we're hoping to have it out before the end of the Summer.
If you have any questions about the docs feel free to let me know!
Editor of the documentary here. Just wanted to say thanks to those of you that did watch it, really appreciate it. First hour long edit for me personally, so was definitely nervous about releasing that...not to mention with the controversy discussion in it included.
Been lurking over these threads just to read the feedback and all that. Definitely didn't go to ResetERA to troll or anything, literally went there to thank people for watching the doc and made the wrong call in getting involved in the discussion by answering questions about the controversy. I'm happy to answer questions about stuff like that, but unfortunately it seems I didn't word it the way I intended, or my comments got cherry picked into creating a narrative.
Anyways, thanks again for the feedback if you did leave feedback on it! I try to read everything as we don't have an established following and are trying to build a positive community around our content. Stuff like what happened over at Reset is pretty draining, so I try to stay away from that as much as possible. If you're curious, our next doc is covering Larian Studios and Divinity: Original Sin. Already in editing so we're hoping to have it out before the end of the Summer.
If you have any questions about the docs feel free to let me know!
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SirKicksalot
Member
What software are you using for editing/colorization?
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wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Using Premiere for everything.
Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
Fantastic work on the documentary. Really looking forward to seeing more.
As for the ResetEra dogpile, don't let it get to you. It's pretty much their modus operandi at this point when it comes to anyone that doesn't immediately side with them. Hell, you're not even allowed to praise Daniel Vávra as a writer there since it's become a bannable offence, so it doesn't surprise me in the least that they would dogpile on the creator of a documentary that doesn't vilify the man.
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Mochilador
Member
I just want to say thank you for making the doc!
wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
I'd say the majority of that thread was pretty OK, at least until the last two pages (I mean there's only 4 pages lol (thank goodness).
I was more taken back by people assuming I had no knowledge of the controversy as if you can do a documentary and not do the required research to know as much as you can about the subject before going in. I really didn't know how to go about covering it to be honest, it's the first time I had to deal with a situation like that for a documentary shoot. Not that I don't have experience covering controversies, I created OnlySP and ran that for four years as well.
The doc was planned for almost a year before the release of the game, so I was watching all of that controversy develop. I'm not sure I covered it the right way, I could have challenged him more on things sure, but the doc was about the studio as a whole and the development of the game. We talked about the controversy the way that we did because it affected the whole team and the perception of the game, which I felt was important to the story. Not Dan's personal viewpoints on things. If that makes sense?
Thanks for dropping by.
I thoroughly enjoyed the documentary and look forward to the next. A couple of suggestions, if I may:
- Shorten future episodes
Over one hour seems a tad excessive. 45 minutes might have been the sweet spot of breath and depth.
- Don't neglect branding
Instead of choosing type to better fit the game you're covering, pick a more neutral font that reflects your work and stick with it throughout the series. Typographical inconsistency looks unprofessional.
wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Thanks for the feedback!
As for the length of the docs, it's definitely something we're paying attention to, especially in analytics to see how long people are sticking around in the videos. I think a lot of people watch them in chunks, and so we've toyed with the idea with releasing them in "Parts", but with how small our audience is currently, and aside from a few friends of ours in the industry, major outlets completely ignore us. You'll find stories about Noclip's (love Danny's work, he's a big inspiration) docs on a lot of major outlets, but they never seem to cover ours. Not even our Darksiders documentary which was a huge release for us with over 100,000 views now. Not sure why, really. Could be because I'm quite critical of the agenda pushing on Twitter and they've seen that? Lol who knows.
That's why I try to make sure and let everyone know how much I appreciate when they do share our work and such. Building an audience is fucking hard lol.
So releasing docs in shorter parts is dangerous for us to do because we have to hope the social media push will be just as big. Now that we're covering bigger stories and less indie stuff it might be an option. Once we hit 50,000 subs or so, I'll feel more comfortable experimenting with formats. Also, if we want to submit anything to the new GDC Film thing, it has to be an hour or more :/ I don't know why length has to be a factor for that, honestly.
Branding is something we're fixing right now. We have a doc releasing in a couple weeks on a tiny indie studio in Miami that will reflect that. Our Larian doc is being considered as the start of Season 2, and now that we have funding behind us, things will look a bit more professional.
michaelius
Banned
That was really nicely put together and it was interesting to watch.
If I might have a small suggestion I think it would be bit better to include elements of interview there - like you are starting some kind of topic and they are talking about it as it is now it kinda feels like monologue. Also the fragment where you give background to controversy would be better if it was spoken by someone from the stuff - someone might be just listening to your video in the background and then he would miss it.
wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Yea, including parts of the interview questions is something we've toyed with. Mostly came down to a lack of equipment to do it. Everything we have was funded from our Kickstarter and we got the bare minimum to do what we needed to do. So, 1 lav mic set, one camera, etc
Our Divinity doc is the first one that was funded from our deal which I can't speak too much about yet. Don't think we'll have interviews in that one yet either, but the story is more chronological and won't need to be broken into different sections like the KC: D doc was. That one was hard because there's already the Vortex doc about the final days before release, and Warhorse is making their own big Making Of doc about the game. Plus I guess there's some other one coming? Guess nothing will be left unsaid about the making of that game lol.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I can't help but look at this image that was intended to show what a racist Vavra is and instead see a person trying to be logical in the face of idiocy.
KevinKeene
Banned
Just saying: Great documentary. As we've seen with reseters/Jason Schreier's reaction TheEscapist's decision not to be political in the future, these people just want you to 100% agree with them or you're the enemy. Giving Vavra and his team the chance to talk their experience was the right choice. Lol, I read the resetera-thread and some demanded that you'd let some from the opposing side of Vavra's speak in your documentary. Like, who? Some random outraged internet idiot?
Anyway, keep up the good work. No idea how realistically possible that is, but I'd love to watch a documentary about RetroStudios some day ;o
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wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Just saying: Great documentary. As we've seen with reseters/Jason Schreier's reaction TheEscapist's decision not to be political in the future, these people just want you to 100% agree with them or you're the enemy. Giving Vavra and his team the chance to talk their experience was the right choice. Lol, I read the resetera-thread and some demanded that you'd let some from the opposing side of Vavea's speak in your documentary. Lie, who? Some random outraged internet idiot?
Anyway, keep up the good work. No idea how realistically possible that is, but I'd love to watch a documentary about RetroStudios some day ;o
Thanks for the words!
Retro would be cool, for sure. Currently trying to line up two years worth of projects, so who knows what we'll be covering! I'd like to get back to some smaller indie stories again once we have a bigger audience for it as well. Right now aiming for some higher profile stories for obvious audience building reasons. But I think we'll surprise people with a few projects we're looking at doing / trying to lock-in now.
I definitely pay attention when people request docs so feel free to throw suggestions into my inbox whenever or you can find me on Twitter with the same username as here to throw suggestions that way as well.
Dr. Claus
Banned
Loved the documentary and I cannot wait to see what you have cooking after Larian!
I wouldn't worry too much about ResetEra. They recently had a developer come out and state that the site was a rather toxic place to be and to discuss things amicably. You just experienced it first hand.
I wouldn't worry too much about ResetEra. They recently had a developer come out and state that the site was a rather toxic place to be and to discuss things amicably. You just experienced it first hand.
Fuz
Banned
Dr. Claus
Banned
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/off-...eep-it-in-here.1462647/page-32#post-253363990
On mobile, apologies. Here is a link to where I have the screenshot of the developer saved.
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Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
You separated the artist's political viewpoints from the artist's work and thus focused on the game and studio as a whole as your subject, I don't know how else you could have done it better to be quite honest.
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Xaero Gravity
NEXT LEVEL lame™
wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Hey all! Hope you don't find this spammy, just don't have a lot of reach yet and I had previously mentioned we'd be releasing a documentary on Divinity: Original Sin. Well, the trailer is here now and the doc releases on Monday! Hope you'll check it out!
Lionel Richie
Member
Can't wait! D:OS is one of my favorite games this gen and I can't wait to learn more about Larian. You guys have a fantastic channel, I hope it continues to grow.
Now about Deliverance, anyone in this thread have played it on consoles? Is the PS4 still all kinds of broken or has it been patched like crazy? I really want to try this game but I heard the bugs were overwhelming.
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wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Thanks so much. We FINALLY passed the 10,000 subscriber mark this morning. Feels good. Hopefully the crawl to 25,000+ isn't as slow going
Denton
Banned
That's quick, looking forward to it. Warhorse, Larian, Obsidian, 4A and CD Projekt are my 5 favourite companies so I will watch anything about them.
HaveButOneLife
Banned
The other forum tearing up this guy simply over his political beliefs is nothing more/less than bigotry.
Shai-Tan
Banned
There are dumb thought police there but toleration here on this forum will still miss interesting questions about how dramatic tropes and game mechanics relate to what is better or worse history in entertainment. Read enough history and anachronism is everywhere in the same way learning science closes off possibilities and wonder about science fiction but there is still a continuum where e.g. Rome on HBO did a better job "translating between worlds" than Spartacus on Starz. It's not the only element to consider about an entertainment as entertainment of course as Spartacus illustrates but if the aspiration is to be a little more than inspired by history critical questions should be welcomed, including questions about the focus of story because in the process of translation there always are contemporary concerns, including the political. Good historical fiction then would shine its light on ideas and events that are relevant, inhabiting the perspectives of the past as much as possible for the audience to understand (presupposing the ability to make sense of the chosen themes, present and past). Games as a long form medium have the potential to better capture the everyday as this game attempts to do but as a visual medium it's more difficult to convey ideas than a book with narrated description; along with genre considerations always looming over gameplay favoring action tropes limiting possibilities
Controversy will always exist due to people who just want to leap around in a shallow pond to be outraged or get clicks but we can do better with a little bit of effort i.e. being more thoughtful reduces the rhetorical weight of bad or half baked ideas and may contribute to better historical fiction in the long run if there is a better conversation beyond false dichotomies about games being political or not or having the right agenda
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Lionel Richie
Member
Your whole post is awesome, but this bit is incredibly well articulated and I couldn't agree more. However, even though I can see how "authenticity" is getting linked with an agenda and sadly losing a bit of its meaning due to repetition (case in point the Total War fan backlash shitshow), on this very specific game regarding the very specific demand that was asked for, I think the dev took absolutely the correct path. Maybe they could have done this a bit less contentiously, but people were really aggressive about this and that brings me to my point. Asking for racial diversity on this game wasn't an honest request because from the get go fools knew it would be denied. Let's be honest here, it's a stupid request for an old ass bohemian tale and knowing the people behind the project it was obvious they would say "thank you, but no thank you". It's like asking your girlfriend to boink other people and then breaking up with her when she says no. You lob it there and if it doesn't fly, which you know it won't, you get to do the thing you wanted from the start. It was like a challenge to "out" the devs as racially biased and from an argument standpoint it worked to some degree because it had some legs and people buying into the ridiculous claim, but from an artistic view it had no merit.
So, yeah, we need to have conversations about it, but we shouldn't rule out the possibility of something being demanded for dishonest reasons.
wingsfan242
Gameumentary Film Editor
Hey all, just posting another update that our documentary is now out - - Didn't see a thread for it yet here, so thought I'd share the link. Hope you like it!