Rumour: PS5 Devkits have released (UPDATE 25th April : 7nm chips moving to mass production)

longdi said:
Looking at the leaked specs of RTX2080 and 2080Ti, they come surprisingly close to the Quadros in cuda cores. I wonder how much RTX cores these gaming cards have, slides mentioned realtime raytracing!
Even at a third or a quarter, it is really good start for realtime raytracing in games. Like 1-3grays in 2080-2080Ti holybbqomg!

Can see a case of 8800GT again, Nvidia took everyone by surprise with unified shaders, high performing ones even! Competition has no answer for months - years!
Going with AMD Navi is like sticking with retard pack RSX when unified shaders are secretly available, only this time, Nvidia did not fuck Sony over.

Remove the Tensor cores, cut down RT cores by a third, size is manageable, boomsss!
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Predict: Next gen console tech (9th iteration and 10th iteration edition) [2014 - 2017]


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Revenge of Cell, the DPU Rises *spawn*






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Me in 2013


AI Co-Processors: could this be the best thing to happen to gaming since the GPU?


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Looking at Nvidia announcement today.. I think it's impossible to have a console with $399 pricetag...

Yes AMD still can do it...but it will be dumbed down as hell...basically it's like making an underpowered system like Nintendo Wii/ Wii u/switch for the future generation

If we're looking for a reasonable price it will be like something around $500-600 at minimum

Heck looking at Nvidia pricing their latest RTX at $1200 im ok with AMD going with a $700-$800 PS5 so then it will have beefier specs as long as it can keep with the other sides

And looking at Navi releases at possible 2019, sure as hell PS5 won't come at the same year...unless they re willing to make a expensive console because I hoping they will wait until card price will depreciate in 1-2 year in order to make ps5 prices become reasonable
 
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Monsterkillah said:
Looking at Nvidia announcement today.. I think it's impossible to have a console with $399 pricetag...

Yes AMD still can do it...but it will be dumbed down as hell...basically it's like making an underpowered system like Nintendo Wii/ Wii u/switch for the future generation

If we're looking for a reasonable price it will be like something around $500-600 at minimum

Heck looking at Nvidia pricing their latest RTX at $1200 im ok with AMD going with a $700-$800 PS5 so then it will have beefier specs as long as it can keep with the other sides

And looking at Navi releases at possible 2019, sure as hell PS5 won't come at the same year...unless they re willing to make a expensive console because I hoping they will wait until card price will depreciate in 1-2 year in order to make ps5 prices become reasonable
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RTX 2070 is only $499

2018-08-21_051924.jpg
 
Monsterkillah said:
Looking at Nvidia announcement today.. I think it's impossible to have a console with $399 pricetag...

Yes AMD still can do it...but it will be dumbed down as hell...basically it's like making an underpowered system like Nintendo Wii/ Wii u/switch for the future generation

If we're looking for a reasonable price it will be like something around $500-600 at minimum

Heck looking at Nvidia pricing their latest RTX at $1200 im ok with AMD going with a $700-$800 PS5 so then it will have beefier specs as long as it can keep with the other sides

And looking at Navi releases at possible 2019, sure as hell PS5 won't come at the same year...unless they re willing to make a expensive console because I hoping they will wait until card price will depreciate in 1-2 year in order to make ps5 prices become reasonable
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But that will never happen. Consoles aren't made for hardcore gamers, they are made for everyone and the 400$ price point is the basically the limit they can go or it won't sell. The X1X is priced at 500$ because it is intentionally a niche produt made for a small audience.
onQ123 said:
RTX 2070 is only $499

2018-08-21_051924.jpg
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The APU budget for a console is probably around 200-250$, since there is need for RAM, HDD, components, etc. For a 2020 fall release the specs must be locked by mid 2019. I really doubt that the AMD equivalent of the RTX2070 will be less than 350$ by then, and it will still be impossible to fit in a APU with the same specs because of die space limitations.
 
ColdToffee said:
But that will never happen. Consoles aren't made for hardcore gamers, they are made for everyone and the 400$ price point is the basically the limit they can go or it won't sell. The X1X is priced at 500$ because it is intentionally a niche produt made for a small audience.

The APU budget for a console is probably around 200-250$, since there is need for RAM, HDD, components, etc. For a 2020 fall release the specs must be locked by mid 2019. I really doubt that the AMD equivalent of the RTX2070 will be less than 350$ by then, and it will still be impossible to fit in a APU with the same specs because of die space limitations.
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We will get what they can get into a $399 - $499 console & it will have ray-tracing hardware
 
onQ123 said:
We will get what they can get into a $399 - $499 console & it will have ray-tracing hardware
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Considering that Shadow of the Tomb Raider runs between 30-50fps at 1080p with Ray tracing on a rtx 2080 ti, the Ray tracing we will get on a 400$ console will be hardly relevant or impressive, specially when everyone is crying for native 4k.
 
onQ123 said:
We will get what they can get into a $399 - $499 console & it will have ray-tracing hardware
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Admittedly I've been skimming the past few (dozens) of pages, but have there been any ray-tracing announcements from AMD? If not, that seems unlikely. Just because NVidia is doing something doesn't mean AMD would (and vice versa).
 
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McHuj said:
Where was this said? I've been looking for anything on the performance for the games they have shown.
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There is a video on pcgameshardware showing this.

What a joke. Funny thing is that mostly people with 4k monitors will buy the new cards - and for them raytracing will be absolutely useless because it seems they have to play on 720p to get their 60 fps. :pie_roffles:
 
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Please remind me why anyone wants the Next Gen soon? Id rather wait and have something significantly better.
 
ColdToffee said:
Sure... Ray tracing in a 400$ console..
There will be SO MUCH disappointment when next gen is announced! From 15tf to 32gb hbm ram, and now Ray tracing dreams.
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In 2019, yes a tough act, but late 2020-2021?
Its Sony loss rushing a ps5 next year. That's the point when Nvidia has gone all out. I was hopeful for 1-3 grays a week ago, but booms! Big Turing core this year! 10grays from the go!

Games with RT will look on an entire level to those without.
 
ColdToffee said:
Considering that Shadow of the Tomb Raider runs between 30-50fps at 1080p with Ray tracing on a rtx 2080 ti, the Ray tracing we will get on a 400$ console will be hardly relevant or impressive, specially when everyone is crying for native 4k.
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Time will tell

wutnau said:
Admittedly I've been skimming the past few (dozens) of pages, but have there been any ray-tracing announcements from AMD? If not, that seems unlikely. Just because NVidia is doing something doesn't mean AMD would (and vice versa).
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What make you think my post is based off of Nvidia? I said this stuff before RTX was announced





Monsterkillah said:
That's..very unlikely to happened...
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It's more likely to happen than it is to not happen.
 
onQ123 said:
Time will tell



What make you think my post is based off of Nvidia? I said this stuff before RTX was announced







It's more likely to happen than it is to not happen.
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You saying that a $400 console can deliver similar performance with a $1200 graphic cards ?
 
wutnau said:
Cool... but you know, I would be more inclined to believe it if AMD had announced something to that effect recently, instead of you saying it.
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AMD don't have to have a Raytracing chip for Sony or Microsoft to have Raytracing hardware on a SoC with the AMD GPU
 
onQ123 said:
AMD don't have to have a Raytracing chip for Sony or Microsoft to have Raytracing hardware on a SoC with the AMD GPU
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Didn't AMD announce their own Ray tracing tech recently? Or was that only API/software based?
Maybe they will include a hw solution in the post gcn gpus.
 
demigod said:
Haha that's just rich. You got him good. Maybe now he'll think before posting.
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demigod said:
No you weren't. You said Sony is number 2/3 behind ios and android. You knew he was talking about consoles, not mobile. But go ahead and keep spinning.
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But Lort said he just want good discussions and no fake news?


OTOH

PS5 will have raytracing, people should know that NV breaks the bank for everything. AMD already has a raytracing solution in place......Still, based on Nvidia's conference yesterday, when we will learn that RT is not ready yet at great framerates on these RTX cards even now, so many 10-15fps demos at NV's conference yesterday. Give me 60fps or 120fps next gen and prioritize that please.......Some games at 30fps with raytracing is fine, but we need to see RT applied in a full game first before we call this the next leap. Nothing should eclipse better framerates (60fps),.... (Cue Just Cause 3 this gen)..... Alas, framerate is something which we could successfuly tackle next gen (seeing that all is going to be aligned) only to have some pretty effects cut those frames back in half or worse.....The more we go round (spin me right round).....back to 30fps....
 
bitbydeath said:
I don't think it's confirmed but there were rumours earlier this year he was out talking to devs on what they want in PS5, which is the same approach he took with PS4.
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I think Richard Leadbetter was just making a reference to what he did with PS4 with that comment. If Mark Cerny did do the developer rounds again it would have been in 2014/2015 not this year or last year. For PS4 he did so in 2008/2009 for a 2013 launch.

Think about it...You want developer input before deciding the spec and before having the chip designed and we know the design/specs are to all intents and purposes locked down 2 years before launch (i.e. late 2017 for late 2019 or late 2018 for late 2020)

Unless you want PS5 in 2021 or 2022!?
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Quite a few would it seems. I'm as close to 100% as can be that no next-gen console will release later than November/December 2020.
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I feel the bare minimum will be 13TF, 24GB GDDR6/HBM and 3gz 8 core ryzen or best case scenario if stars align sort of deal: 15tf, 32gb and 12 core ryzen

Anything less and it will feel like an incremental update, the 4Kish standard will eat a lot of the extra power and what's left wont be enough to produce visuals that convince the masses next gen has arrived and isn't just another pro revision.

Im down to whatever date they need to make it happen
 
SonGoku said:
I feel the bare minimum will be 13TF, 24GB GDDR6/HBM and 3gz 8 core ryzen or best case scenario if stars align sort of deal: 15tf, 32gb and 12 core ryzen

Anything less and it will feel like an incremental update, the 4Kish standard will eat a lot of the extra power and what's left wont be enough to produce visuals that convince the masses next gen has arrived and isn't just another pro revision.

Im down to whatever date they need to make it happen
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What it needs is AI upscaling, like DLSS from the turing cards. And it would basically double performance and image quality at 4k. For that it needs hardware to accelerate AI. With those specs 13-15Tf and its own version of DLSS, It would perform like a 26Tf to 30 Tf gpu without DLSS.

DLSS titles are seeing 40-80+% performance from DLSS. And you know console optimizations will be closer or above the higher number if similar tech is used.
 
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demigod said:
Why did you buy a 1X? Why didn't you just wait until next gen for something significantly better?
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Because the xbox 1 plays allmost all current gen games at 4k or near it. By current calculations any next gen console that comes out soon wont be much better. Its also highly likely the first next gen games will be on current gen.

Looking at the specs we will get on the same game...
Xbox 720p low
Ps4 900p low
Ps4 pro 1080p medium / low
Xbox one x 1440p medium / high
2019 Next gen 4k high ( unlikely ray tracing)
2020 next gen 4k high / ultra ( maybe ray tracing)
2021 next gen 4k ultra / ray tracing
 
Lort said:
Because the xbox 1 plays allmost all current gen games at 4k or near it. By current calculations any next gen console that comes out soon wont be much better. Its also highly likely the first next gen games will be on current gen.

Looking at the specs we will get on the same game...
Xbox 720p low
Ps4 900p low
Ps4 pro 1080p medium / low
Xbox one x 1440p medium / high
2019 Next gen 4k high ( unlikely ray tracing)
2020 next gen 4k high / ultra ( maybe ray tracing)
2021 next gen 4k ultra / ray tracing
Click to expand...

So long as it is developed with 7nm, and as has AI acceleration an enormous leap is possible even in 2019. Notably greater than that and you need another improvement in process. Is the move from 7nm to 5nm expected anytime soon? Will that move provide as much of a leap as the 14nm to 7nm move?

HBM memory may also have matured enough and become cheap enough to use in the near future, providing vast bandwidth.
 
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Lort said:
Because the xbox 1 plays allmost all current gen games
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That's where the difference lies.
Current gen games will always be leagues behind next-gen games as the current requires the base to function on 6+ year old hardware. Pushing to 4K is nowhere near impressive as a game being built from the ground-up with far more powerful specs.
 
Lort said:
Because the xbox 1 plays allmost all current gen games at 4k or near it. By current calculations any next gen console that comes out soon wont be much better. Its also highly likely the first next gen games will be on current gen.

Looking at the specs we will get on the same game...
Xbox 720p low
Ps4 900p low
Ps4 pro 1080p medium / low
Xbox one x 1440p medium / high
2019 Next gen 4k high ( unlikely ray tracing)
2020 next gen 4k high / ultra ( maybe ray tracing)
2021 next gen 4k ultra / ray tracing
Click to expand...

So I better not see you in the next xbox thread buying it when it comes out.
 
I don't think there is any way the PS5 comes out in 2019 ... simply based on the fact that Cyberpunk has been officially declared for ''current gen'' and it's seems far from it's release date which I expect fall 2019 or Winter 2020

My bet is PS5 releases Fall 2020 ; 7 years from the PS4 launch and 4 years from PS4 Pro is long enough and will have some of those AMD goodies at cheapest affordable prices for mass productions
 
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OSC said:
What it needs is AI upscaling, like DLSS from the turing cards. And it would basically double performance and image quality at 4k. For that it needs hardware to accelerate AI. With those specs 13-15Tf and its own version of DLSS, It would perform like a 26Tf to 30 Tf gpu without DLSS.

DLSS titles are seeing 40-80+% performance from DLSS. And you know console optimizations will be closer or above the higher number if similar tech is used.
Click to expand...
isnt dlss just checkerboarding?
either way im down, native 4k eats way too many resources for todays cards
checkerboarding a13tf gpu and 24gb would make a generational jump possible
 
demigod said:
So I better not see you in the next xbox thread buying it when it comes out.
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Ill buy whatever i want when i feel its right. I can see why people might not bother upgrading from a ps4 pro to an xbox one x because the upgrade is limited. Even if the upgrade from the xbox one x to the new gen consoles isnt much i still will prob upgrade. Lets be serious though for the industry and for game development it would be far better to have a generational leap .. not just a ps pro 4.5 or and xbox one x 1.5.
 
OSC said:
So long as it is developed with 7nm, and as has AI acceleration an enormous leap is possible even in 2019. Notably greater than that and you need another improvement in process. Is the move from 7nm to 5nm expected anytime soon? Will that move provide as much of a leap as the 14nm to 7nm move?

HBM memory may also have matured enough and become cheap enough to use in the near future, providing vast bandwidth.
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7nm this year ... ps5 release 2019
5 nm next year.. xbox 5 release 2020
https://www.techpowerup.com/245495/tsmc-is-ramping-up-7nm-production-5nm-next-year
 
SonGoku said:
isnt dlss just checkerboarding?
either way im down, native 4k eats way too many resources for todays cards
checkerboarding a13tf gpu and 24gb would make a generational jump possible
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Nvidia's image reconstruction is significantly more advanced than checkerboarding.


Lort said:
7nm this year ... ps5 release 2019
5 nm next year.. xbox 5 release 2020
https://www.techpowerup.com/245495/tsmc-is-ramping-up-7nm-production-5nm-next-year
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This is assuming no delays, and 5nm mass production by 2020. A 1 year delay could cost market leadership in next gen. While 5nm allows for good area reduction, performance difference estimated between it and 7nm is not as big as 7nm to 14nm difference. Also the area reduction wouldn't matter as much if a MCM gpu solution is used, though the MCM navi rumor has been disavowed by amd.
 
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I'm thinking I'll wait for the pro revision this time to decide if I'll go Sony or MS. Ive always been a day 1 guy but this time I think I'll hold off. If there is no BC on ps5 I'll definitely not be day 1. I may even switch systems then as there won't be any reason not to. Of course I'd wait to see the price, games, and specs first.
 
Another thing! if streaming is in your plans for gaming & other media wouldn't it be smart to have a chip on the console that can take a smaller signal & clean it up after the signal is streamed?
 
Lort said:
Because the xbox 1 plays allmost all current gen games at 4k or near it. By current calculations any next gen console that comes out soon wont be much better. Its also highly likely the first next gen games will be on current gen.

Looking at the specs we will get on the same game...
Xbox 720p low
Ps4 900p low
Ps4 pro 1080p medium / low
Xbox one x 1440p medium / high
2019 Next gen 4k high ( unlikely ray tracing)
2020 next gen 4k high / ultra ( maybe ray tracing)
2021 next gen 4k ultra / ray tracing
Click to expand...

You are thinking one dimensionally when progress is a muti-dimensional path. Next gen games will likely see relatively minor resolution improvement, but the will greatly benefit from a vastly improved CPU and more memory. Levels and gameplay designed around more of those latter two simply won't run on current gen consoles. Your analysis will hold for the first 1-2 years of the next gen when many games will be cross gen, but once the install base of the next gen consoles get large enough, games will abandon the current gen in order to make full use of the next gen hardware.

However there will likely be first party exclusives designed specifically for the PS5 from the get go in order sell the new hardware. Those games won't run on on a PS4.

Oh, and next gen consoles will not have ray tracing. That is a cutting edge technology that can just barely run in that domain. It is definitely not going to work in a mass market device like consoles. Also the mid-gen refreshes are just going to be better versions of the tech already in place. New tech will not be added.

Ovech-King said:
I don't think there is any way the PS5 comes out in 2019 ... simply based on the fact that Cyberpunk has been officially declared for ''current gen'' and it's seems far from it's release date which I expect fall 2019 or Winter 2020

My bet is PS5 releases Fall 2020 ; 7 years from the PS4 launch and 4 years from PS4 Pro is long enough and will have some of those AMD goodies at cheapest affordable prices for mass productions
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Like The Last of Us at the beginning of this generation, Cyberpunk will be a cross gen game.
 
EventHorizon said:
You are thinking one dimensionally when progress is a muti-dimensional path. Next gen games will likely see relatively minor resolution improvement, but the will greatly benefit from a vastly improved CPU and more memory. Levels and gameplay designed around more of those latter two simply won't run on current gen consoles. Your analysis will hold for the first 1-2 years of the next gen when many games will be cross gen, but once the install base of the next gen consoles get large enough, games will abandon the current gen in order to make full use of the next gen hardware.

However there will likely be first party exclusives designed specifically for the PS5 from the get go in order sell the new hardware. Those games won't run on on a PS4.

Oh, and next gen consoles will not have ray tracing. That is a cutting edge technology that can just barely run in that domain. It is definitely not going to work in a mass market device like consoles. Also the mid-gen refreshes are just going to be better versions of the tech already in place. New tech will not be added.



Like The Last of Us at the beginning of this generation, Cyberpunk will be a cross gen game.
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There are simpler ways to implement global illumination, including precalculating it. With regards to reflective surfaces, devs. can use simpler techniques to achieve similar output to a full ray tracing.

Graphics wise, it will be difficult to distinguish simpler methods from ray tracing in terms of quality.
 
OSC said:
There are simpler ways to implement global illumination, including precalculating it. With regards to reflective surfaces, devs. can use simpler techniques to achieve similar output to a full ray tracing.

Graphics wise, it will be difficult to distinguish simpler methods from ray tracing in terms of quality.
Click to expand...

This is what I'd like to see and understand going forward.
 
OSC said:
There are simpler ways to implement global illumination, including precalculating it. With regards to reflective surfaces, devs. can use simpler techniques to achieve similar output to a full ray tracing.

Graphics wise, it will be difficult to distinguish simpler methods from ray tracing in terms of quality.
Click to expand...

And far less expensive while RT is in it's current infancy. As RT matures down the road, that is where we will the gap will widen I wager.
 
EventHorizon said:
You are thinking one dimensionally when progress is a muti-dimensional path. Next gen games will likely see relatively minor resolution improvement, but the will greatly benefit from a vastly improved CPU and more memory. Levels and gameplay designed around more of those latter two simply won't run on current gen consoles. Your analysis will hold for the first 1-2 years of the next gen when many games will be cross gen, but once the install base of the next gen consoles get large enough, games will abandon the current gen in order to make full use of the next gen hardware.

However there will likely be first party exclusives designed specifically for the PS5 from the get go in order sell the new hardware. Those games won't run on on a PS4.

Oh, and next gen consoles will not have ray tracing. That is a cutting edge technology that can just barely run in that domain. It is definitely not going to work in a mass market device like consoles. Also the mid-gen refreshes are just going to be better versions of the tech already in place. New tech will not be added.



Like The Last of Us at the beginning of this generation, Cyberpunk will be a cross gen game.
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As you said the first PS5 titles will likely be artifictially limited to just run on Next Gen.

If they dont add in any ray tracing capability now Sony is unlikely to add it mid gen refresh ... so no ray tracing for 6 years.
 
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