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[DanielsM]

I didn't mean that decisions made by Phil Spencer are infallible. What I meant was that the strategy for the Xbox division isn't complete shit and that it doesn't make any sense, otherwise Phil wouldn't have been able to sell it to the Microsoft Board.

You might feel that they are going in the wrong direction, but that doesn't mean that this is actually the case. And when people are talking in superlatives and certainties, they shouldn't be surprised to be called out. Just like you did to me, because you thought that I meant that big companies' decisions are infallible.

There is no Xbox division, the Other Personal Computing segment includes Windows, MSN, Surface, accessories, Xbox hardware, Xbox software/services, Bing search, etc. They did this to probably try to hide the losses of the Xbox product and service line further as investors were able to figure out before when it was just Surface, Skype, Xbox, and Android royalties that the Xbox stuff was losing billions a year. Now gaming numbers are given but only in revenue or growth terms.

What I meant was that the strategy for the Xbox division isn't complete shit and that it doesn't make any sense, otherwise Phil wouldn't have been able to sell it to the Microsoft Board.

Huh, what does this mean? Phil sold Nadella a pile of shit. Nadella wanted "services" or was probably going to shut it down like he did like virtually everything on the consumer side of the house. The problem with that is there is no or limited places to put these services, let alone most people are not asking for more services... and most of the large publishers have incentive to get Microsoft out of the middleman business if they are not needed. Obviously, Microsoft is needed as a gate keeper to Xbox as a Hardware, but certainly are not needed on PC, Android, iOS, Linux, Mac, Nintendo devices, Sony devices, TVs, etc.

The Microsoft approved either directly or indirectly the following consumer products/services, and now they have been shutdown either directly or indirectly. These aren't marketing blunders, they're clearly business strategy blunders, business decision blunders, and failure to compete i.e. execute.

- Windows Mobile
- Games for Windows Live
- Microsoft Band
- Groove Music (formerly Xbox Music)
- Xbox Entertainment Studios
- Countless Xbox games and internal studios were given the axe
- Cortana (now left to die, which was actually pretty good when it launch on winm8, they basically destroyed its functionality)
- Xbox Kinect
- Microsoft Store (currently still operating, but its a shit show just like GFLW, the problem here now there is relance for the shit show with Win 10)

Nadella and the board basically wiped out the consumer side of the Microsoft since 2014. He gave some funds to Phil because Phil is promising "services" everywhere the problem is there is no real demand nor any real business model to put those in most other devices/platforms..... which is why you don't see any of the "services" on other platforms/devices. Phil is just making shit up as he goes along.

What Microsoft did with enterprise/business with mobile i.e. deploying to Android/iOS for example isn't going to work on the gaming side of the house for multiple obvious reasons.

Why in the fuck would anyone pay for Xbox Live Gold other than a closed eco-system?

The guy is delusional if he thought the Xbox 360 was some type of success financially, marketing maybe one of the problems but its silly business decisions with failure to compete and execute - which is why they dumped the Xbox 360 ideas and started chasing Nintendo i.e. casuals and motion controls. My guess is the Xbox 360 era was losing more money than the current era, although its basically impossible to show that now... .Microsoft is hiding all the numbers.

 

[Fitzchiv]

The irony the pseudo marketing nonsense is the cringe Phil said stuff that comes out on an almost daily basis.



I tell you what, if Satya isn't the cloud services boy... he sure has been lying a ton.

You sound exactly like the Windows Phone user from 2015-2016, literally they would attack anyone that hinted that was over, even after Microsoft said it was over.... they still attack to this day like its coming back.
Phil better actually come up with a plan for services real fucking quick.

I sound like the head of services for a £500m+ revenue business.

I repeat: you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Mega Man]

Xbox finishing behind Playstation again will be less about the naming of their console, and more about splitting their market with PC.

This is in reference to console sales of course.

However, Microsoft will be interpreting Gamepass subscriber count and software sales/time played as the new barometer for success. So for all intents and purposes, they will be lumping Xbox and PC together to combat Playstation next generation.

 

[DanielsM]

I sound like the head of services for a £500m+ revenue business.

I repeat: you have no idea what you're talking about.

You have added nothing to the discussion. What part do you disagree with? To be honest, about 90% of what I have put in these post is factual in nature. You are getting mad, if you disagree I am okay with your disagreement to any conclusions but you have offered nothing of value for me to discuss with you. What specifically am I saying that's wrong? (whether factual in nature or opinion) Just become you say I am wrong doesn't magically make it so?

Do you think (believe) all those Microsoft consumer products/services were shutdown for "marketing mistakes"? I hope not. Do you think the Xbone is where its at because of marketing mistake? I hope not. Are "marketing mistake" the reason why the Microsoft Store is a fucking disaster and Phil refuses to fix the stupid ass store? I hope not. These are clearly failures to execute or bad business strategy models/plans.... although Microsoft's marketing is notoriously bad.... they are not the cause... bad products/services are.

I sound like the head of services for a £500m+ revenue business.

What does this even mean?

 

[SleepDoctor]

I sound like the head of services for a £500m+ revenue business.

I repeat: you have no idea what you're talking about.

You're wasting your time. He's allowed to troll every thread. He posts more on xbox threads than ps ones. Yet he's unwarned.

I hurt his feelings embarrassing him so he blocked me cuz i called him out on his bs lol.

 

[DanielsM]

Xbox finishing behind Playstation again will be less about the naming of their console, and more about splitting their market with PC.

This is in reference to console sales of course.

However, Microsoft will be interpreting Gamepass subscriber count and software sales/time played as the new barometer for success. So for all intents and purposes, they will be lumping Xbox and PC together to combat Playstation next generation.

The issues with PC is nobody wants anything to really do with Microsoft or the Microsoft Store including large publishers and developers.... PC gamers gave up on MS 2 decades ago, than they added to the fire with GFWL and MS Store . Game Pass is simple at best a small revenue stream for old games, why would EA for example put their games on the MS store to rent and only get a few pennies at best? They have their own distribution subscriptions and channels.

Really its not about Sony or Nintendo, its about Valve and all the other digital distributors as well..... the problem is people are not forced to use MS for non-MS environments i.e. they have to compete. What they are trying to do is avoid competition.... Games for Windows Live and MS Store they couldn't compete with Valve or other distribution channels, so they started a rental service, well most games make their money in the first few months through sales..... front loaded.

MS wants to be the middleman where no middleman is needed, than they have no real business model to pay single player games actually money to recoup development costs.

EA Play - EA Video Game Membership - EA Official Site

Get more from your game with exclusive rewards, member-only content and access to a library of top titles with an EA Play membership.

www.ea.com

The large publishers have no need of MS outside of having access to Xbox as a Hardware, and even that is suspect if sales are not good.

PC is an open platform..... nobody has to work with MS nor really wants to.

Take Two already said multiple times that these subscription models don't make any sense for example, but even if they were.... every large publisher basically have them up and running or will.

Take-Two CEO doesn’t see the sense in game subscriptions | VGC

“There will be no winner takes all, and a bunch of losers”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Either way, the past problems with Xbox have more to with bad business planning, bad business strategy, and unrealistic views of how gaming and the game industry actually operate.... bad marketing doesn't help but it certainly isn't the cause.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Nadella and the board basically wiped out the consumer side of the Microsoft since 2014. He gave some funds to Phil because Phil is promising "services" everywhere the problem is there is no real demand nor any real business model to put those in most other devices/platforms..... which is why you don't see any of the "services" on other platforms/devices. Phil is just making shit up as he goes along.

Not only that, but while their service platform looks nice functionally (gamepass) their content is just not that good.

However, Microsoft will be interpreting Gamepass subscriber count and software sales/time played as the new barometer for success. So for all intents and purposes, they will be lumping Xbox and PC together to combat Playstation next generation.

If this is their game fine, so be it, it only annoys me to see people repeating the sales pitch without much thought, I mean the platform works for some (I'm sure it works better on the consoles than on PC because the Windows Store has been broken to me, there is just not enough interest in fighting with it to make it work).

 

[DanielsM]

Not only that, but while their service platform looks nice functionally (gamepass) their content is just not that good.

If this is their game fine, so be it, it only annoys me to see people repeating the sales pitch without much thought, I mean the platform works for some (I'm sure it works better on the consoles than on PC because the Windows Store has been broken to me, there is just not enough interest in fighting with it to make it work).

Generally agree.

What they have been doing makes very little sense to me, instead of improving and competing they continue to just change/chase and continue to release broken ass shit that really doesn't even seem like it was thought out. They other thing they do is just constantly change the name of things... thinking instead fixing something and competing we'll just change the name and puff magic.... users will start using them.

Games for Windows
Games for Windows Live
Windows Games on Demand
Games for Windows Live Marketplace
Xbox Live on Windows (windows 8 store)
Windows Store
Microsoft Store
Xbox Game Pass
Xbox Game Pass for PC

You would think someone within the company would figure out over 13+ years that all this isn't going to work.

Either way, I don't see these as marketing mistakes, failure to plan, failure to understand the market, failure to execute.... all come to mind... case in point.... the Microsoft Store/UWP. Ole Phil hasn't mentioned that since 2018 when last said it was going to be fixed.... just like they said for all the other ones that one replaced.


Best thread ever on GAF, its unbridled truth.

MS promises to bring more first party games to PC

Non-halfassed ports of Halo 1, 2, 3 and ODST on Steam please.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Mega Man]

The issues with PC is nobody wants anything to really do with Microsoft or the Microsoft Store including large publishers and developers....

MS wants to be the middleman where no middleman is needed, than they have no real business model to pay single player games actually money to recoup development costs.

I totally understand what you're saying, and you're right. I believe they are slowly but surely transitioning back to a software focus though. They want to be THE publisher. They also want to be the pioneer in the game streaming future. Make no buts about it, xCloud and Gamepass will become one service in the next few years and they want to be the name you think of when talking about game streaming. In addition, they will be pushing the sales of their first party studios through all distributors that will have them (as well as xCloud/Gamepass). You will have the ability to play all first party Xbox games through Steam, EGS, Nintendo ____, etc. The MS store will be dead in 1-2 years, and this will be their last dedicated console to playing games locally. xCloud/Gamepass with first party studios pumping out xCloud Originals (or whatever they call them) is the future of the Xbox brand. I believe they will even take off the xCloud & Gamepass and end up just calling the service "Xbox." ...a lot like "Netflix"

 

[Fitzchiv]

You have added nothing to the discussion. What part do you disagree with? To be honest, about 90% of what I have put in these post is factual in nature. You are getting mad, if you disagree I am okay with your disagreement to any conclusions but you have offered nothing of value for me to discuss with you. What specifically am I saying that's wrong? (whether factual in nature or opinion) Just become you say I am wrong doesn't magically make it so?

Do you think (believe) all those Microsoft consumer products/services were shutdown for "marketing mistakes"? I hope not. Do you think the Xbone is where its at because of marketing mistake? I hope not. Are "marketing mistake" the reason why the Microsoft Store is a fucking disaster and Phil refuses to fix the stupid ass store? I hope not. These are clearly failures to execute or bad business strategy models/plans.... although Microsoft's marketing is notoriously bad.... they are not the cause... bad products/services are.



What does this even mean?

I've responded before, and seen others do similar, in other threads to your tired, ignorant rhetoric - yet more of which is on display in the reply above. You have fundamental issues in your understanding of what marketing is as a function, its role in product development and placement, and how physical product and aligned services connect. I'm way, way past being bothered actually engaging other than to highlight that ignorance should anyone else unfortunate enough to read through the reems and reems of Business By Numbers bollocks you trot out on this (over, and over, and over) mistake it for actual insight.

Stop dressing your prejudices up as anything other than they are. Go Google Quality Function Deployment, Service Blueprinting, retention models etc and decide if it interests you. If it does, go sign up to a marketing course and spend a year or so learning what the fuck you're talking about.

In the meantime, give the rest of us a break from this shit.

(p.s it means what it says you idiot)

 

[DanielsM]

I've responded before, and seen others do similar, in other threads to your tired, ignorant rhetoric - yet more of which is on display in the reply above. You have fundamental issues in your understanding of what marketing is as a function, its role in product development and placement, and how physical product and aligned services connect. I'm way, way past being bothered actually engaging other than to highlight that ignorance should anyone else unfortunate enough to read through the reems and reems of Business By Numbers bollocks you trot out on this (over, and over, and over) mistake it for actual insight.

Stop dressing your prejudices up as anything other than they are. Go Google Quality Function Deployment, Service Blueprinting, retention models etc and decide if it interests you. If it does, go sign up to a marketing course and spend a year or so learning what the fuck you're talking about.

In the meantime, give the rest of us a break from this shit.

(p.s it means what it says you idiot)

All you are doing is putting wall of text that says the same thing, "you don't know what you are talking about".

I REPEAT (as you stated ) Specifically, what do you disagree with?

Why do you call me names for me asking you such a simple question?

 

[DanielsM]

I totally understand what you're saying, and you're right. I believe they are slowly but surely transitioning back to a software focus though. They want to be THE publisher. They also want to be the pioneer in the game streaming future. Make no buts about it, xCloud and Gamepass will become one service in the next few years and they want to be the name you think of when talking about game streaming. In addition, they will be pushing the sales of their first party studios through all distributors that will have them (as well as xCloud/Gamepass). You will have the ability to play all first party Xbox games through Steam, EGS, Nintendo ____, etc. The MS store will be dead in 1-2 years, and this will be their last dedicated console to playing games locally. xCloud/Gamepass with first party studios pumping out xCloud Originals (or whatever they call them) is the future of the Xbox brand. I believe they will even take off the xCloud & Gamepass and end up just calling the service "Xbox." ...a lot like "Netflix"

They really can't kill the MS Store like they did GFWL as UWP/Windows Apps are more or less embedded now, even in Windows itself, that's the distribution channel for updates even. Its never really was alive the problem with MS Store/UWP will linger for a very long time - walking dead.

 

[nikolino840]