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[Fake]

Microsoft has announced more specs for the Xbox Series X, including 12 teraflops of GPU compute power, confirmation of RDNA 2.0 AMD architecture, some potentially amazing back-compat options and... well, its entire cross-gen strategy. D dark10x and Rich sit down for an impromptu chat.

Could Xbox Series X's 12 teraflop GPU deliver even more power than we expected?

Is this the first attempt to comprehensively answer the big question? Fundamentally, what is next-gen? In Xbox chief Ph…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[JORMBO]

Nice. Going to watch this tonight after work.

 

[Journey]

Can't wait to hear NXGamer's take now that it's 12TF with the efficient NAVI architecture AAAAND RDNA 2. Do Teraflops matter now? Do black lives matter? Do Blue lives matter? Do buildings matter

 

[Shin]

The formatting is rather bad Fake , need a bit of clean up.
Text/quotes above and videos and images under perhaps for easier reading?

 

[Fake]

The formatting is rather bad Fake , need a bit of clean up.
Text/quotes above and videos and images under perhaps for easier reading?

Always have do that. First the video, next the proper quote from the youtube summary. What I not usally do is put the tweet/article link. What I could do is remove the tweet because they're not always worth to be mention.

 

[MoreJRPG]

They made a great point in the only reason they stated the amount of teraflops was because they know they have Sony beat. Otherwise it serves no purpose for PlayStation to announce there’s and it trumps it and it again makes Xbox look irrelevant.

 

[Arkam]

They made a great point in the only reason they stated the amount of teraflops was because they know they have Sony beat. Otherwise it serves no purpose for PlayStation to announce there’s and it trumps it and it again makes Xbox look irrelevant.

Pretty sure MS did this with the X1. Came out feeling they had teh box...then PS 4 was shown and they had to shift to "teh cloud!". Its all guesses and gambles.

 

[Moneal]

They made a great point in the only reason they stated the amount of teraflops was because they know they have Sony beat. Otherwise it serves no purpose for PlayStation to announce there’s and it trumps it and it again makes Xbox look irrelevant.

The reason they announced Flops was to clear up confusion over Phil's previous statement of 2X power. Doubt sony was considered with their announcement other than timing.

 

[Arkam]

^^^ and the fact that a 12TF machine is pretty sweet in general. Even if its no better than competitor... its still good. I mean look at cars and phones they brag about solid specs even when when there may (or may not) be a competitor that is better.

 

[Fake]

^^^ and the fact that a 12TF machine is pretty sweet in general. Even if its no better than competitor... its still good. I mean look at cars and phones they brag about solid specs even when when there may (or may not) be a competitor that is better.

Indeed. Even if PS5 was 11TF, being a 11TF RDNA would be great, but RDNA 2.0 makes even better. We still don't know the bump between 1.0 and 2.0, but any perfomance boost we can get is good.
seX being a 12TF RDNA 2.0 almost prove those insiders saying about 2080. IDK why people still wants more. This level of perfomance is a killer move. We can pretty sure put the 'bump models' to bed for a long time.

 

[TempleOfIron]

The reason they announced Flops was to clear up confusion over Phil's previous statement of 2X power. Doubt sony was considered with their announcement other than timing.

yeah you aren’t getting better than 12tf for the price of a console

 

[Kazza]

As they said in the video, the fact that MS are emphasising the terraflops number suggests that they are confident that it is higher than what the PS5 will have. I wonder how Sony will counter the power gap?

 

[Bathtub Fart]

I think this is the first console generation where I'm impressed with the power. Maybe since the first Xbox.

 

[MoreJRPG]

The reason they announced Flops was to clear up confusion over Phil's previous statement of 2X power. Doubt sony was considered with their announcement other than timing.

Sony is completion of course they were thought about. It’s complete radio silence from them and Microsoft is benefiting from that at the moment.

 

[Moneal]

Sony is completion of course they were thought about. It’s complete radio silence from them and Microsoft is benefiting from that at the moment.

yep thats exactly what I meant about timing. Their announcement wouldn't have happened if Sony had their announcement in the previous day or two. This gives them the entire media and enthusiast attention.

 

[TLZ]

They made a great point in the only reason they stated the amount of teraflops was because they know they have Sony beat. Otherwise it serves no purpose for PlayStation to announce there’s and it trumps it and it again makes Xbox look irrelevant.

Either beat or matched. Yes.

 

[Sosokrates]

They made a great point in the only reason they stated the amount of teraflops was because they know they have Sony beat. Otherwise it serves no purpose for PlayStation to announce there’s and it trumps it and it again makes Xbox look irrelevant.

Irrelevant? Hahaha.
The difference is so minimal this time round it does not even matter.

 

[Gavon West]

Irrelevant? Hahaha.
The difference is so minimal this time round it does not even matter.

I dunno. MS coming out this soon with hardware pretty much shouts they know they hold the power crown.

 

[Sosokrates]

I dunno. MS coming out this soon with hardware pretty much shouts they know they hold the power crown.

Maybe, I did say that with MS having 15 studios that some of them talk to Sony and 3rd parties something is bound to slip, but I also don't think Spencer and the upper management will based decisions on company gossip.
Plus Osirisblack, Klee and Tommy fisher seem to think ps5 will be slightly more powerful so I would not be surprised if PS5 ends up at 12.6tf or 13.4tf, what would be weird though is Sony's choice to go with a $499 beast, from a business perspective and the playstation history and legacy it makes more sense for them to make a weaker machine at $399.

A 8-10tflop $399 PS5 would sell more then a 12-13tf $499 PS5, So it would be odd if Sony will go for a $499 console.

Sony are going to be at a disadvantage if they only have a $499 console if ms have a $299 Lockhart.

 

[Gavon West]

Maybe, I did say that with MS having 15 studios that some of them talk to Sony and 3rd parties something is bound to slip, but I also don't think Spencer and the upper management will based decisions on company gossip.
Plus Osirisblack, Klee and Tommy fisher seem to think ps5 will be slightly more powerful so I would not be surprised if PS5 ends up at 12.6tf or 13.4tf, what would be weird though is Sony's choice to go with a $499 beast, from a business perspective and the playstation history and legacy it makes more sense for them to make a weaker machine at $399.

A 8-10tflop $399 PS5 would sell more then a 12-13tf $499 PS5, So it would be odd if Sony will go for a $499 console.

Sony are going to be at a disadvantage if they only have a $499 console if ms have a $299 Lockhart.

Sony wont end up the more powerful. You can pretty much bank on it at this point. If they were, you would've heard about it. There's a reason they keep dodging any information about the PS5. I personally think they're in a bit of a spot. Put it like this, if Sony cancels the PS5 this year (which is possible) and instead try for 2021, you know whats up.

 

[Virex]

Another DF video with a lot of talking about nothing

 

[Sosokrates]

Sony wont end up the more powerful. You can pretty much bank on it at this point. If they were, you would've heard about it. There's a reason they keep dodging any information about the PS5. I personally think they're in a bit of a spot. Put it like this, if Sony cancels the PS5 this year (which is possible) and instead try for 2021, you know whats up.

I think this sort of confidence is misguided when we have had 3 vetted insiders saying the ps5 is more powerful.
I don't think they will be lying and then there's the leak about the ps5's BOM being $450 just on parts.

 

[sinnergy]

I think this sort of confidence is misguided when we have had 3 vetted insiders saying the ps5 is more powerful.
I don't think they will be lying and then there's the leak about the ps5's BOM being $450 just on parts.

With data and know how of last year ... like I said months ago MS played it close to the chest. I have spoken.

 

[Sosokrates]

With data and know how of last year ... like I said months ago MS played it close to the chest. I have spoken.

So tales from the ass?

 

[HolyTruth]

I think this sort of confidence is misguided when we have had 3 vetted insiders saying the ps5 is more powerful.
I don't think they will be lying and then there's the leak about the ps5's BOM being $450 just on parts.

then why isn’t Sony saying? They could crush MS right now and kill all their thunder buy just a single tweet.
PS5 > 12 TF.

also, maybe these insiders just got the series S information. and not Series X

 

[Sosokrates]

then why isn’t Sony saying? They could crush MS right now and kill all their thunder buy just a single tweet.
PS5 > 12 TF.

also, maybe these insiders just got the series S information. and not Series X

Maybe they are building it up so they can unleash massive megatons in one giant load .

Or maybe they think, " we are market leaders, we have the best games, we have the most powerful console, we can unviel when we like and we will still beat Xbox soundly"

Maybe this them being arrogant Sony again.

Of cause you can come up with endless "maybe" scenarios coming up with any outcome you desire, but that's silly, I like to base my predictions based on the most solid info we have, and at the point the most solid source of info are vetted insiders.

However if you have more reliable sources of info please share.

 

[phil_t98]

As they said in the video, the fact that MS are emphasising the terraflops number suggests that they are confident that it is higher than what the PS5 will have. I wonder how Sony will counter the power gap?

It will be interesting to see if Sony don’t announce the power of the machine if they know they are behind and just show games

 

[sinnergy]

It will be interesting to see if Sony don’t announce the power of the machine if they know they are behind and just show games

That will be the case if they are, but hey it’s about the games in the end.

 

[Blood Borne]

They made a great point in the only reason they stated the amount of teraflops was because they know they have Sony beat. Otherwise it serves no purpose for PlayStation to announce there’s and it trumps it and it again makes Xbox look irrelevant.

Yeah, but it’s all about price : power ratio.
If PS5 is 10TF @ $400 and Series X is 12TF @ $500, then Sony is in a better position than Microsoft.
I’m not predicting that this is going to be the actual specs and price, just trying to illustrate how price : power ratio is very important.

12TF is mighty impressive, good for Microsoft. They seem ready to be very competitive this next gen. Good for gamers.

 

[phil_t98]

Yeah, but it’s all about price : power ratio.
If PS5 is 10TF @ $400 and Series X is 12TF @ $500, then Sony is in a better position than Microsoft.
I’m not predicting that this is going to be the actual specs and price, just trying to illustrate how price : power ratio is very important.

12TF is mighty impressive, good for Microsoft. They seem ready to be very competitive this next gen. Good for gamers.

I think the price will match, we know what phil has said and there are rumours of Sony struggling price wise. I think if there at least a 2tf diff as you said then Microsoft will make gains this gen. Sony will still lead but deffo loose some ground

 

[SimonGosejohann]

Yeah, but it’s all about price : power ratio.
If PS5 is 10TF @ $400 and Series X is 12TF @ $500, then Sony is in a better position than Microsoft.
I’m not predicting that this is going to be the actual specs and price, just trying to illustrate how price : power ratio is very important.

12TF is mighty impressive, good for Microsoft. They seem ready to be very competitive this next gen. Good for gamers.

no, its not.
if there is a 9TF Series X for $300 then what? Microsoft has the cheaptest and best power-to-price ratio AND has the most powerful console.... so FOR EVERY MULTIPLATFORM title xbox WILL be the best place to play..

and if you dont want the best graphics, then go with Series S...

the messaging is important.. very important.

 

[Sosokrates]

Yeah, but it’s all about price : power ratio.
If PS5 is 10TF @ $400 and Series X is 12TF @ $500, then Sony is in a better position than Microsoft.
I’m not predicting that this is going to be the actual specs and price, just trying to illustrate how price : power ratio is very important.

12TF is mighty impressive, good for Microsoft. They seem ready to be very competitive this next gen. Good for gamers.

I wonder how ms will react if PS5 is about a 1tflop more powerful. Spencer said they won't be beaten on price or performance, so I wonder how he would react to this.

 

[phil_t98]

I wonder how ms will react if PS5 is about a 1tflop more powerful. Spencer said they won't be beaten on price or performance, so I wonder how he would react to this.

Tbh they must know what the specs are for ps5 and Sony would of known the specs of the XSX so I think he can be fairly confident of at least matching the ps5

 

[SleepDoctor]

Maybe they are building it up so they can unleash massive megatons in one giant load .

Or maybe they think, " we are market leaders, we have the best games, we have the most powerful console, we can unviel when we like and we will still beat Xbox soundly"

Maybe this them being arrogant Sony again.

Of cause you can come up with endless "maybe" scenarios coming up with any outcome you desire, but that's silly, I like to base my predictions based on the most solid info we have, and at the point the most solid source of info are vetted insiders.

However if you have more reliable sources of info please share.

Solid info (xbox confirmed specs) not speculation and rumors lol nice spin tho

 

[Sosokrates]

Solid info (xbox confirmed specs) not speculation and rumors lol nice spin tho

We are talking weather ps5 is more powerful then xsx.

 

[SleepDoctor]

We are talking weather ps5 is more powerful then xsx.

And im saying only one side is confirmed. Rumors are not "solid info".

 

[Sosokrates]

And im saying only one side is confirmed. Rumors are not "solid info".

I agree, which is why I said insiders are the most solid info we have.

 

[Blood Borne]

no, its not.
if there is a 9TF Series X for $300 then what? Microsoft has the cheaptest and best power-to-price ratio AND has the most powerful console.... so FOR EVERY MULTIPLATFORM title xbox WILL be the best place to play..

and if you dont want the best graphics, then go with Series S...

the messaging is important.. very important.

Very good point. Never heard or thought about there being a Series S. Seems like a solid strategy by Microsoft. Any rumours if Sony is releasing a standard and pro version at launch?

 

[Agnostic2020]

I like how clueless digital foundry has been about next gen .

the day after TGA reveal of xsx the Alex guy was discussing how this is probably around 10 Navi tf which is double the performance of x1x.

shows they have been in dark for next gen till they share info with them .

 

[policestationx]

DF and GitHub are the best.

 

[LemmingWithaParachute]

As they said in the video, the fact that MS are emphasising the terraflops number suggests that they are confident that it is higher than what the PS5 will have. I wonder how Sony will counter the power gap?

Games are always made for the lowest denominator. Devs will just target the PS5 if it turns out that it has the lower spec.


I do wonder if Sony provided themselves with late stage options in terms of power on the board and thats why theyve waited to give details. Say, MS announces their spec, Sony decided to go with A dropping in a more powerful chip instead of a lower one.

 

[gamerforever]

I don’t think having 2 versions at launch will work and will confuse the public.

 

[Mistershine.]

With all the talk about MS knowing what Sony is doing, is it possible that mojang have a PS5 devkit? Would Sony send them one for Minecraft RT?

 

[Agnostic2020]

With all the talk about MS knowing what Sony is doing, is it possible that mojang have a PS5 devkit? Would Sony send them one for Minecraft RT?

They specifically said they never received devkit for ps5 but they both know each other’s target from 3rd party target spec

 

[Mattyp]

Osirisblack, Klee and Tommy fisher seem to think ps5 will be slightly more powerful

Can someone explain to me who these people are? Literally never heard of any of them and people seem to be praising Tommy Fishers word as law even though apparently he's already been wrong on them displaying the console this month.

DF ARE INSIDERS. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew already. They are we'll known, with more access than the majority of people online speculating.

 

[M1chl]

Can someone explain to me who these people are? Literally never heard of any of them and people seem to be praising Tommy Fishers word as law even though apparently he's already been wrong on them displaying the console this month.

DF ARE INSIDERS. I wouldn't be surprised if they knew already. They are we'll known, with more access than the majority of people online speculating.

aka TF, it's a troll account.

 

[Von Hugh]

And what was their initial expectation? 8 - 9 GCN TFLOPS?

F you, DigitalFoundry.

 

[ZywyPL]

Yeah, but it’s all about price : power ratio.
If PS5 is 10TF @ $400 and Series X is 12TF @ $500, then Sony is in a better position than Microsoft.
I’m not predicting that this is going to be the actual specs and price, just trying to illustrate how price : power ratio is very important.

12TF is mighty impressive, good for Microsoft. They seem ready to be very competitive this next gen. Good for gamers.

It's kind of double-edged sword TBH - many average Joes who but consoles at local stores will ask why one is is more expensive than the other, and they will hear it's because it has more powerful GPU, with more TFlops, but average Joe doesn't know what a TF is, many of them don't even know what a GPU is, they just think there is this one, magical "processor" that does all the job (which is actually true given more and more consumer electronics use SoC solutions nowadays), but at the end of the day, they will look at both screen, and say "hey, this CoD looks EXACTLY like the other CoD, I don't see this console being any more powerful" - and will easily pick up the cheaper console.

But on the other hand, once more and more titles show up, and with them more and more reviews, the more powerful console will have a free marketing, being able to nitpick lines like "plays best on XYZ", "XYZ has a great advantage", "XYZ clearly wins this gen" and so on, and put them on every possible trailer, TV spot, banner, poster etc., and the consumers will take notice, and many of them will blindly follow and pick that XYZ console not even digging into the details.

 

[Blood Borne]

It's kind of double-edged sword TBH - many average Joes who but consoles at local stores will ask why one is is more expensive than the other, and they will hear it's because it has more powerful GPU, with more TFlops, but average Joe doesn't know what a TF is, many of them don't even know what a GPU is, they just think there is this one, magical "processor" that does all the job (which is actually true given more and more consumer electronics use SoC solutions nowadays), but at the end of the day, they will look at both screen, and say "hey, this CoD looks EXACTLY like the other CoD, I don't see this console being any more powerful" - and will easily pick up the cheaper console.

But on the other hand, once more and more titles show up, and with them more and more reviews, the more powerful console will have a free marketing, being able to nitpick lines like "plays best on XYZ", "XYZ has a great advantage", "XYZ clearly wins this gen" and so on, and put them on every possible trailer, TV spot, banner, poster etc., and the consumers will take notice, and many of them will blindly follow and pick that XYZ console not even digging into the details.

That has never mattered and will never. Price and games are more important that power. Power only matters on Internet/game forums, don’t confuse it with reality.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

I like how clueless digital foundry has been about next gen .

the day after TGA reveal of xsx the Alex guy was discussing how this is probably around 10 Navi tf which is double the performance of x1x.

shows they have been in dark for next gen till they share info with them .

I wouldn't call them clueless, I think they prefer only knowing stuff that they can disclose with the public, and never discredit their own brand by giving their own portion of insider information