[DF] In Theory: Can a 4TF Navi GPU Deliver a Next-Gen Console Experience?
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
It would hold back the XSX in game design
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Did you even watch the video?
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
You listened to a 26 minute video in 5 minutes, huh?
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
This just goes to show the Lockhart naysayers are incorrect.
GHG
Member
Can't wait for a 4TF box to be seen as "good" by the same set of people who think the prospect of a 9TF box is "bad".
4TF is a joke no matter how much the video might be attempting to spin this on Microsoft's behalf. Also if they are to use a 4TF GPU it won't be paired with a CPU anywhere close to the level of the 3700X (even if it's downclocked to 3.5Ghz "for reasons *cough cough hint hint*" so the comparisons are off-base.
4TF is a joke no matter how much the video might be attempting to spin this on Microsoft's behalf. Also if they are to use a 4TF GPU it won't be paired with a CPU anywhere close to the level of the 3700X (even if it's downclocked to 3.5Ghz "for reasons *cough cough hint hint*" so the comparisons are off-base.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Yeah, 1080p/60 on 4.3 TF of a game that runs at 4K/60 on 12 TF is abolutely possible and seemingly requires no effort from the developer side aside from lowering the resolution. Now add VRS to the mix for a 15 % boost in performance and you are looking at a locked 60 fps in all games. Lockhart is a very smart idea. I don't know if it comes out as a console, I still believe that was the original plan but now they are just releasing Series X at 399 to go all-in, while Lockhart powers xCloud.
ResilientBanana
Member
TF don't dictate game design, only graphical fidelity. Game design should be fine and won't hold back anything since they use the same processor and SSD. Also you wouldn't require as much RAM for graphical purposes.
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Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I think if they were going to use Lockhart for cloud and port all the games to it they might as well release it to the public too.
Lockhart existence may be because of xcloud, because I don't think Microsoft are interested in making cloud gaming a 4k experience, yet.
alabtrosMyster
Member
I don't get why you are so upset about the CPU thing, what are you hinting at? that they are trying to run it at a speed where it doesn't use much power, or that they want to be sure that they will have higher yields on the CPU portion of the die? ... would you have prefered it if they went the Intel + Xe direction? Why not match such a CPU with a 4TF GPU assuming you lower your target resolution?
The point would be to have a lower cost version of the console that can still play 4K games in 1080p, for this to work you need the same (or a very close CPU), but you can sacrifice GPU power memory bandwidth, maybe have less RAM and storage on board, and remove a couple of non essential features from the system... Remember, this is an entry level system meant to play the same games at lower resolution.
I don't know if 4TF is the right number, but it would make sense to me, assuming the idea is to provide a lower cost entry.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I commented before I watched it. We already knew Lockhart would hold game design back at the concept stage, if Lockhart does release
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
And yet, here is a video that says it doesn't.
TBiddy
Member
No, you're guessing/hoping it does. Big difference there.
GHG
Member
It's not about yields. The fact is a 3700X, even clocked at 3.5Ghz would have a thermal profile that would typically be too much for a console.
I'm not hinting at anything. If you watch the video you will see that Richard is hinting at the clockspeed potentially being 3.5Ghz for this console configuration when he talks about why they downclocked it to 3.5GHz. I get why they used a 3700X with it being 8C/16T which is what the next gen consoles will have but any CPU they use will be hugely nerfed versions of the current AMD lineup. In fact, I think it's more likely they will use something like a nerfed 2700 as the basis.
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too much eslim
Member
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I tend to go with developers on these subjects and developers are worried Lockhart might hamper their next generation titles
Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
In June, Microsoft announced Project Scarlett, a new iteration of the Xbox that the company said would “set a new bar for console power, speed and performance.” What Microsoft didn’t say is that it is also working on a lower-cost, disc-less version of Scarlett, code-named Lockhart, according to...
www.google.com
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
50 % of Americans don't have a 4KTV. This would also be the perfect console for families, why buy an expensive console for your kids when you can get two cheap ones for the same price? And with the existing game sharing you can buy games or services once and use them on two consoles.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
You are funny. That article is completely neutral and even positive about a cheaper SKU, just exactly one sentence is what triggers you.I tend to go with developers on these subjects and developers are worried Lockhart might hamper their next generation titles
Sources: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
In June, Microsoft announced Project Scarlett, a new iteration of the Xbox that the company said would “set a new bar for console power, speed and performance.” What Microsoft didn’t say is that it is also working on a lower-cost, disc-less version of Scarlett, code-named Lockhart, according to...
"Game developers will be expected to support both Anaconda and Lockhart, which some are worried might hamper their ambitions for next-gen games in the coming years."
It's the only remotely negative thing said about Lockhart in that article. And it doesn't even provide the context if those devs were even briefed on Lockhart (the following sentence suggests that they were not, because Schreier goes on to talk about a single developer who was briefed on it). The key word here is "some".
"When speaking to Kotaku, one game developer briefed on Lockhart analogized it to the PlayStation 4 Pro in terms of raw graphical power, although there are other key differences that might make up for that."
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
"Some" implies more than one is worried about Lockhart bringing down the baseline
Why can't Xbox just focus on games...
Makoto-Yuki
Banned
it could be fine if it was capped at 1080p 30fps. some games could still run at 720/900p with an unstable framerate at ~25-30fps.
not everyone is gonna go out and buy a new 4K TV. 4TF should be enough if it is paired with a modern CPU + more RAM + ssd storage. think of a PS4 Pro but with a Zen 2 CPU, 12-16GB RAM, and an SSD. that'd be a huge improvement over the PS4 Pro which runs at 1440-2160p 30fps. by having the console drop to 720-1080p it would let it keep up with the more powerful 9 + 12TF CPUs
GPU performance is important but it's not the only thing that matters.
not everyone is gonna go out and buy a new 4K TV. 4TF should be enough if it is paired with a modern CPU + more RAM + ssd storage. think of a PS4 Pro but with a Zen 2 CPU, 12-16GB RAM, and an SSD. that'd be a huge improvement over the PS4 Pro which runs at 1440-2160p 30fps. by having the console drop to 720-1080p it would let it keep up with the more powerful 9 + 12TF CPUs
GPU performance is important but it's not the only thing that matters.
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JLB
Banned
maybe its watching in it 16x speed.
icerock
Member
GPU Power (or lack of) isn't potentially the biggest issue with Lockhart.
The main question pertains to what would be the CPU and SSD configuration. As long as they don't completely gimp the CPU/SSD, the machine should be fine. I'll wait for MS to reveal the official specs before enchanting a doom and gloom/all praise spell, it could go either way and it is completely dependent on what sort of discrepancy exists on CPU/SSD side.
The main question pertains to what would be the CPU and SSD configuration. As long as they don't completely gimp the CPU/SSD, the machine should be fine. I'll wait for MS to reveal the official specs before enchanting a doom and gloom/all praise spell, it could go either way and it is completely dependent on what sort of discrepancy exists on CPU/SSD side.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So what happens when developers start pushing balls to the wall where resolution has to drop to a 1440 dynamic?
Mud and molasses dynamic Switch-like 540p on Lockhart? Or are graphics going to have to be compromised (never allowed to push the maximum threshold of a closed 12TF box) to remain in 4K to have that "easy" 1080p downscale Lockhart tick box?
Mud and molasses dynamic Switch-like 540p on Lockhart? Or are graphics going to have to be compromised (never allowed to push the maximum threshold of a closed 12TF box) to remain in 4K to have that "easy" 1080p downscale Lockhart tick box?
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
If PS5 is 9.2tflop and it doing 1440p at it s lowest, Lockhart will be able to do 1080p, more VRS and slightly lower settings, it will still look very good in comparison, normies won't even notice.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm not talking about PS5, I'm talking about in the Xbox ecosystem with their first party.
And if the PS5 is 12TF as well, my question still stands, extended to 3rd party now.
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Did you watch the video?
Based on what's in the video. It will be able to do 1080p just fine.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
So the video took into account graphics being pushed balls to the wall where the 12TF system has to reduce itself to 1440p dynamic? And you're telling me that the 4TF system will still do 1080p just fine in that scenario with said fidelity of the 12TF?
Nah bruh! It did not take that into the equation.
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Just watch the video bruh!
I'm surprised this $399 price point keeps being mentioned. Y'all really need to let that go! There is no way in heaven, earth or hell that XSX will be $400; it's not happening. It's not practical. Let it go! You better start saving your pennies, because the XSX will cost a pretty penny, indeed.
As for Lockhart holding back the generation, or next-gen games on Xbox; let that go too! That argument went out the window when low-end GPUs prevented games from reaching their full potential on high-end GPUs...which was NEVER!
These consoles are more PCs than anything else...moreso than the last gen consoles, and moreso than any other console that has ever come before. The old Universal console laws no longer apply!
Either move with the times or get left-behind. Luddite mentality on costs and luddite mentality on technology/optimisation should be a sin.
I don't know what fantasy some of you are living in, but it's just that, a fantasy. Get real, and hurry up about getting there!
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That still counts as "holding back the xsx" IMHO.
Because that implies 4k (and possibly 60 fps) should always be the default goalpost for the xsx.
At the risk of getting crucified in here, I'd still be perfectly fine with lower resolution and/or fps in exchange for other breathtaking visuals. But that might not be scalable down to 4tf as easily - hence more or less taking that option away from devs.
Armorian
Banned
Yeah, in scenario when developer want to aim in 1080p (or something between this and 1440p) resolution and max out graphics/performance with all that 12TF of power XSS version would end up in some pitiful state or would not be possible at all. But i think both MS and Sony will mandate developers to make games above 1080p (for XSX only on MS side).
policestationx
Banned
DF is always the best.
I'd rather take industry expert like them seriously than some fanboys on the internet about 4TF XBOX.
I'd rather take industry expert like them seriously than some fanboys on the internet about 4TF XBOX.
CyberPanda
Banned
Yep, DF rocks. But there's a conspiracy that MS 'owns' them. lmao.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
If they want to be able to sell
You might, but MS wants all games on xCloud and a streaming service sucks with 30 fps games. They said it, they see Google as the main competitor. Stadia runs everything at 60 fps to reduce lag.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Wonder what MS paid for all those 900p and black crush videos. They probably had to pay extra for grass gate. And if anything, they are pro PC and PS and Switch.
CyberPanda
Banned
General Lee
Member
The reality is that the next gen console experience will have to wait even after the consoles release since devs will be mostly doing cross-gen for a couple years, and that includes MS itself. Eventually whatever console proves to have the weakest cpu/memory/ssd will dictate the multiplatform game design limitations, but pure GPU grunt is easily scalable so as long as Series S or whatever they'll call this is otherwise up to par, it won't hold back game design.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Many people here need to read this comment
Jtibh
Banned
I want to have a job where i can smootch of people , ask them to support me so i can bring this very valuable information to you all while i use it to finance my hobby and get new stuff for free.
And all while i pretend to be super duper smart and best of the best.
I want that job.
And again its about microbias.
Hey why no video on ps5?
With the title can in theory 9.2 teraflop run next gen games?
I guess microsoft stuffed your pocket full of money for the next 4 years.
And all while i pretend to be super duper smart and best of the best.
I want that job.
And again its about microbias.
Hey why no video on ps5?
With the title can in theory 9.2 teraflop run next gen games?
I guess microsoft stuffed your pocket full of money for the next 4 years.
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I haven't watched the video either (about to right now) but I would guess reconstruction techniques could be used to get to 1080p plus with MS AI they can use AI-upscaling which is far superior to regular upscaling techniques.
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nikolino840
Member
The One X Is 6 tf
LordOfChaos
Member
Whachyoo sayning, Rich?
