Unfortunatecookie
Member
Making a ton of money =/= customer satisfaction.
They're in for a world of hurt if they fail to recognize that.
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Sony Will Be In For A Shock Next Gen
- Thread starter FalconPunch
- Start date
They're in for a world of hurt if they fail to recognize that.
playbignbox
Member
I believe it will be released at $599 or $649 without a disc driver. I would be negatively surprised if it comes at the same price as the PS5 Pro.
reinking
Gold Member
I am not talking about money. 80+ million PS5s sold so far and there are still big titles to release that will move more consoles. Their main competitor appears to be targeting high end and hybrid consoles for the next generation. Some of you need to get outside of enthusiast gaming forums now and then. The people I know that own consoles have been pleased for the most part of this generation aside from the price increases. They don't really care about what games are first party or if games are available on PC. As long as they have something to play, they are happy. Believe it or not, there are people that do not even know Concord existed.
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Apollo Helios
Member
From what I got from Reddit gaming circuits, there are so many people buying a Playstation 5 along with a disc drive and BF6. I've also seen some who claim they're switching from Xbox. I am really curious about October HW and software sales now. I think it might break 300K if it is indeed a wide occurrence.
HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
Millenials aren't dying out, yet. This generation is keeping consoles alive and the whole business model surrounding it. They might overdo it at some point with digital only, though. Millenials love stuffing their rooms full with shit.
Mozza
Member
If anyone feels Microsoft are not going to make a new X box console they are delusional. What will matter more is if they decide to tie some of those big studios to their own console and gamepass. As yet Microsoft have not really made those massive acquisition;s pay off... But I have always seen this as more a case of timing than anything else.
midnightAI
Member
Any proof of that though? Why would Sony suddenly stop subsidising their main console (not Pro's, they have always been made to make money)
MLID would not know this, at all (the chances are Sony themselves don't currently know the exact price yet, they'll have a ball-park figure but it will depend on many market based factors)
Sony have come out many times and said their pricing for the PS3 was a mistake. they fully admitted that it was too expensive for the general public, it took them ages to correct that mistake and even then wasnt fully corrected as you can see by the sales figures compared to other PlayStations. You think they'd make that mistake again? $700 is dead in the water, or at the very least lower sales than any PlayStation ever made, why would they go down that route fully knowing that would happen (and it would)?
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CentralScrutinizer
Member
For real. All of that increased revenue is Fortnite money anyway. It's not safe to build your entire platforms revenue / profit stream around one game. This is something Sony failed miserably at during the PS5 generation and not enough people talk about it.
midnightAI
Member
Like last gen? when people thought the PS5 would cost $600 and up?
And how well is this mid-gen refresh selling? Last I heard it wasn't doing too well.
They are a business, they need to sell PlayStations, $700 wont sell in my opinion, that's too expensive for most of the general public which is their bread and butter, it's a balancing act between power and price and I think $700 is a hard sell, if its more than that then they risk falling very close to PC pricing (admittedly not high end at all). Some ask why people choose consoles over PC and the number one reason is price.
Xbox one x launch price $499. Xbox series x launch price $499. Xbox series s launch price $299.
It's not out of the realm of possibility but I think it will be $699 and a possible handheld for slightly cheaper.
Xbox is dead so i don't really see the point in killer app single player games anymore.
The fact they didn't raise the budget for Ghost of Yotei is an indication they wanted to make money more than having a big first party title this year.
For PS6 i think they'll try to have one or 2 big exclusives and the rest will be mostly on PC or live service.
The fact they didn't raise the budget for Ghost of Yotei is an indication they wanted to make money more than having a big first party title this year.
For PS6 i think they'll try to have one or 2 big exclusives and the rest will be mostly on PC or live service.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Everything you said is true about Sony this gen but regardless, the PS6 will be just fine because ...just look how well the ps5 has done.
I'm still furious at Sony for how disappointing the "Pro" has been. I guess not enough people have bought it to experience the loss of confidence in Sony that I and I'm sure many others feel now though. I don't knoe how any savvy gamer can feel like this console has delivered something worthy of its $800 price point! Cerny just did a poor job designing it to the point where its flagship PSSR kinda sucks and we're not seeing the promised RT improvements, probably because they were too stingy with the components of the console. Same CPU, no real overclock, memory bandwith starved, GPU not that impressive. It's understandable with ps5 back in 2020 at $400-$500 but not the Pro in 2024 at $700-$800!
The way they've handled the "ps5 pro enhanced" certification for 3rd party devs, where nothing is defined for what constutes getting that label, has been a disgrace and allowed so many games this year to get some really pathetic "enhancenents". Sony caters to devs and publishers too much without looking out for the customers who paid a lot to support this console. They could at least set some reasonable requirements for devs to follow.
I don't share the same sentiment that Sony hasn't delivered good single player games though. Every year has had a couple good ones. My issue with Sony is with the drop off in visuals and envelope pushing AAA offerings from them. They talked a big game at the beginning of the gen only to get worse over time, instead of the big leaps we used to see between games at the beginning to the end of the generation.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Exactly, which is why he said that we'll find ourself with the same image quality issues we've dealt with on PS5 and PS5 Pro....unless Sony actually delivers a beefy and expensive console it will struggle with path tracing even with a great upscaler! He was saying you need a base res of 1080p on PC to get good iq. You have to feed an upscaler a decent base res or you'll get games like Silent Hill F and MGS delta that just don't have enough native res to look great with upscaling
daninthemix
Member
I'm an expert on Japanese culture and Sony have shot themselves in the foot. Can't be bothered to type out the rest.
reinking
Gold Member
graywolf323
Member
yep, some people on here are way too online
Unfortunatecookie
Member
We'll see what happens.
reinking
Gold Member
Of course. None of us have a crystal ball. I just hope I am still alive when PlayStation finally goes under. I can't wait to see what is next.
Unfortunatecookie
Member
Precisely.
They're raking in money through the success of the biggest GaaS games being on their platform. But their own software strategy has been, overall, a failure. They had 9 studios working on GaaS, only 1 has released to success, and to make up for their below average output they've had to remaster everything under the sun.
If they cannot figure out that their core competency is in delivering non-transactiony experiences, they will find out the hard way that after the early hardcore adopters, people are not going to buy PS6's to play games that can run on their current console, phone, and possibly PC.
Unfortunatecookie
Member
Agreed. I don't see them going under like Xbox or Dreamcast, but I do see them struggling if they cannot figure out how to deliver games that sit right next to GoW/Uncharted/Ghost/Astro etc.Of course. None of us have a crystal ball. I just hope I am still alive when PlayStation finally goes under. I can't wait to see what is next.
JayK47
Member
I have skipped PS5 so far and at this point I may as well keep skipping it. The only reason I picked up consoles to begin with were exclusives. Since Xbox and Playstation started porting most of their first party games to PC, I have not felt like spending the money on the latest consoles. Add to that how awful a lot of their first party games have become and I hardly see the point. If Sony pulls their head out of their ass and puts out better first party games for the PS6, maybe I will get one. Gone are the days that a console goes down in price after a few years.
KungFucius
King Snowflake
What is just fine though? It will probably sell less than PS5 unless it lasts longer. What is the hook to non hardcore gamers that still buy consoles? If a portable version is launching side by side, then I think that is it. I mean that will have me getting one for the kids when I am kind of on the fence since I game mainly on PCs. The problem is that PS doesn't have that many kid friendly games and old school gamers would only use the portable as a secondary device if at all.
I am sure it will do OK, I just don't see any obvious path to growth.
FalconPunch
Member
Personally speaking, I technically fall into the hard-core crowd for Sony. At launch, I purchased 4 ps5s, scalped 2, kept the other 2. I purchased 2 ps5 pros at launch. I ended up selling them but later rebought 1 pro and 1 30 anniversary edition slim. I let my ps plus lapse for the first time since the service launched in 2010.
The consequences for your actions are usually extremely delayed and I hope Sony sort it out. Their performance this gen has been so poor that I forked out the cash for a 4090 and a gaming laptop this year. To accompany that, I also have a steam deck Oled. Pay once, play on pc, on handheld, on the TV, on vacation, etc. Don't pay for online, etc. Usually the draw of Sony was their software and value for money. With the hikes to subscription costs, hardware, accessories and the lack of software, the value proposition is starting to make less and less sense. If they release the same low innovation software for ps6 as they've done for ps5, they may have a problem on their hands...
Then again, I didn't factor in the lack of competition in the console space for next gen. If there's one company greedily than Sony, it's Nintendo. They really aren't a viable competitor and the only innovation on switch 2 is the price/ magnetic joycons. Terrible screen, still the same, joycon drift, expensive storage, game key cards, over priced boring games(MK World).... I expect that to not even come anywhere close to matching the og switch sales.
The consequences for your actions are usually extremely delayed and I hope Sony sort it out. Their performance this gen has been so poor that I forked out the cash for a 4090 and a gaming laptop this year. To accompany that, I also have a steam deck Oled. Pay once, play on pc, on handheld, on the TV, on vacation, etc. Don't pay for online, etc. Usually the draw of Sony was their software and value for money. With the hikes to subscription costs, hardware, accessories and the lack of software, the value proposition is starting to make less and less sense. If they release the same low innovation software for ps6 as they've done for ps5, they may have a problem on their hands...
Then again, I didn't factor in the lack of competition in the console space for next gen. If there's one company greedily than Sony, it's Nintendo. They really aren't a viable competitor and the only innovation on switch 2 is the price/ magnetic joycons. Terrible screen, still the same, joycon drift, expensive storage, game key cards, over priced boring games(MK World).... I expect that to not even come anywhere close to matching the og switch sales.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
Hardcore PS fans trying to save the brand by buying 4-6 PS5 systems each. You learn something new every day.
You learn something new every day.
CashPrizes
Member
It will be crazy expensive and the majority of people will have less disposable income going forward, so I think it will do worse then PS5. But it won't tank or anything.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Yeah. This is one thing they should learn from Nintendo. Sony's exclusives essentially sell their console. Or only release your games on Linux.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
I would love it if Sony, Valve, Epic etc along with AMD and Nvidia formed a Linux gaming consortium with proper support and their own flavours but with equal access to each others stores. It will probably never happen, but things like Project Amethyst suggest that Sony is open to projects that help push themselves and the wider industry forwards.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yeah that's kinda the point of what Mark Cerny was saying in the video. Especially the part at the end when they speak on saving memory bandwith. One of the main issues with Raytracing and path tracing now is that it's only on Nvidia GPUs and most devs have no need to learn how to best implement it into their games.
Plus if the games are also coming out on current hardware, then why even spend the money on figuring it out?
CentralScrutinizer
Member
Yea, Sony ain't going back. PlayStation gamers have proved they don't buy enough games anymore to justify the size and scope of the projects they produce. If you want your games to be exclusive, you need to recalibrate your expectations for first party games so the budgets can be more manageable to account for exclusivity again.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Sony tried to diversify and not be reliant on one game... and has mostly failed miserably. However, it's not all bad, games like GT7 and MLB The Show are well performing live games, and they are setting up Tokon in this way as well. Not to be some massive COD-level success but a well maintained successful game over time. They're trying to push a world of more hardware variety for more markets, not just the console itself (PS5/PS5 Pro) but accessories (Edge, Portal, the fighting stick). I also think that they will see Yotei with more modest budgets and timeframes as the way forward instead of bloated $300M games like Spiderman 2, which will allow them to keep the games on console without having to port to PC to make a few pennies in profit while killing the platform in the process like Xbox did.
I dont know maybe it's cope but I just see evidence that Sony realizes they screwed up this gen and need to change what they are doing.
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MatrixReloaded101
Member
I think PS6 will do worst than PS5 if they don't deliver a decent amount of AAA PS6 exclusive games out the gate.
People got burned by the cross gen stuff with the PS5 so if they try that again the sells will tank out the gate.
People got burned by the cross gen stuff with the PS5 so if they try that again the sells will tank out the gate.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
What is "do worse" in this situation?
If it's exclusives...hell no. PS6 will have less exclusives than ever. But will it have more 1st party titles than PS5 in the long run? Most likely.
If you expect the crossgen period to last less than the previous console...oh boy do i have bad news for you. Generations are done.
Sethbacca
Member
I mean, in theory at least, after the cancelled GAAS push all of the first parties should be working on late gen PS5 games or PS6 games at this point.
FalconPunch
Member
If the cross-gen will be longer, even the hardcore won't upgrade. If they don't have show case software out of the gate and pull a microsoft with the series X, its going to struggle.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
This gen has proven that no matter how bad software or price gets, there are millions that will pay the price no matter what.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I've had a PS5 since 2021 and played a lot of great games though.
Yes less of them came from Sony than on PS4 but that's not really the way people enjoy their consoles, or even the PC, only based on exclusives.
midnightAI
Member
People will still upgrade if they can see a tangible difference with cross platform games never mind exclusives (I think due to having a much larger emphasis on ray tracing or even path tracing we may see some exclusives even at the start), I have a feeling something like Intergalactic will be a bit of a showcase here, showing a pretty big difference between PS5 and PS6 (no raytracing/limited raytracing (GI only) for Pro versus full raytracing (even better GI, shadows, reflections etc) and all that at higher framerates and resolution. I have no doubt at all that it will still be a very good looking game even on base PS5 but it just seems like timing wise it could be a really good bet for an upgraded PS6 version.
We had a similar thing with Forbidden West, the PS5 version is MUCH better than the PS4 version with better resolution, framerates, higher fidelity across the board and much faster loading times. The PS4 was still going pretty strong until recently where support is starting to now be dropped and it hasn't really affected PS5 sales too much.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
Soooo, case in point? The only other possible explanation is that people want a box under their tv that is "new". If that's all it takes to sell another console for 25% more every 5 years, Sony is set for life.
diffusionx
Gold Member
the issue with PS5 was that it was very hard to find for literally years and Sony made multiple games cross-platform during that time period, which then slowed the transition.
I don't think they will do that again.
yurinka
Member
They have record levels of money, user engagement, user satisfaction and brand image. But opinions are like asses, each one has their own one. Meaning even if most people is happy and they have more happy people they ever had, independently of thatever they do there will be somebody not happy.
Like those who expect Sony to release 12 GOTYs per year and obviously all of them single player and PS5 only, with no PC port and not being crossgen. Something not realistic and not sustainable considering the market conditions.
They didn't cancel the GaaS push, their plan to release GaaS of a dozen IPs continues. They already did put in the market since then GaaS of MLB, GT, Firewall, Destiny, Concord, Helldivers, Midnight Murder Club, and soonish Marathon, Convallaria and Marvel Tokon. Plus later Fairgame$, Horizon Online, gummy bears and who knows if some other one more.
Last quarter 40% of their first party revenue was made by GaaS. Which will increase with releases like Destiny Rising, Marathon or Marvel Tokon.
But yes, all first parties are working on PS5 -both new or supporting already released ones- or PS6 (I assume all of them crossgen) games.
Yep, like every generation AAA games take longer and more expensive to be made, so each time required more time to release their games. This means, even if Sony (or any other AAA publisher/dev team) has now more teams and way more workers, still released less games and had to focus more in having better average quality than in quantity.
Even beyond exclusives (independently if crossgen or not, or if console or full exclusives), or also great multiplatform games, I had a way better experience with PS5 than with PS4 due to unexpected reason: loading and downloading times.
PSN store and menus in general are blazing fast now when they were very sluggish. Same goes when downloading, installing, updating or loading times. In many cases it was a pain in the ass in PS4, while now in PS5 is super quick.
It seems a small detail but when you have many games and switch from one to another frequently it's very helpful.
PS5 AAA games cost on average around $300M, and the PS6 ones will be more expensive because every generation they get more expensive. And they want to have a profitable business. In addition to this, exclusives are a very small part of the console game sales.
Meaning, they aren't stupid and won't make a >$300M game exclusive for a console with 0 installbase. Very likely they'll make all PS6 games crossgen with PS5 and sooneer or (less likely) later they'll release all of them in PC and (to play them on PC or smart tvs) cloud.
But aside from this, Xbox consoles will be extinct soon. Which means many games that before were Xbox console exclusives or were only available for Xbox and PS at least in consoles, now will be either full PS exclusives or PS console exclusives.
And well, in addition to consider that most game revenue doesn't come from exclusives in any platform other than Nintendo (basically because 3rd party sales are weaker there than in the other platforms), we also have to consider that Sony will continue growing their brand outside PS, which means new fans will continue joining PS as they are doing in the PS generation.
Sony will release way more off-gaming adaptations than they do now, both in existing formats (movies, tv shows, anime) and new ones. They will continue investing more in deals plus PC and mobile releases to grow specially fastest growing markets like China, Korea, India, Middle East and in the future Latin America and some regions of Africa.
And after their GaaS + PC push is complete once I assume when they release their PC PSN store, they'll start a similar push to grow in mobile gaming and portables.
They'll reach new users through all these areas and primarly will monetize them there, but a part of them will also end buying a PS home console. Like the Xbox refugees that already didn't do it and won't want to move to PC, consolized PCs or portables.
Meaning, very likely PS6 will perform better than PS5, specially if there isn't something like covid that heavily damage its sales during a long period.
PlayStation gamers on average buy more games, spend more money in games, and spend more time playing than in any previous generation. And most Sony teams sold more than ever with their most recent game.
But the increase in AAA costs has been way bigger than that. So they need to do stuff like crossgen and PC ports. Even with the very successful ones, because they also subsidize a % of games that -as always happened in all game companies since the 70s- either get cancelled or tank in sales, risk that keeps getting higher as game budgets and dev times keep heavily increasing every generation.
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
PS5 had like one single exclusive on release and it was a remake. It did great.
And what do you mean "even the hardcore won't upgrade"? Those will be the first ones to upgrade.
FalconPunch
Member
The ps5 had the reputation of the ps4 selling it. The ps6 will have the reputation of the ps5 which is drastically different than that of the ps4. The ps4 had lots of bangers. As a result, it led to the ps5 having lots of hype. I don't think the ps6 will have the same hype.
One thing I think we can agree, there are more hardcore questioning the ps5 and the value it has delivered at this point in time than at the same point in the ps4's life cycle.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
If that happens, causals will continue to play their live service games (Fortnite, roblox,warzone) on their PS5 or upgrade to a PS5 pro and the hardcore will just continue/jump into PC gaming for much bigger jumps in performance/graphics.
Sony needs to figure out a way to lower the cost of their AAA games, I am enjoying Ghost of Yotei and I heard the budget was less than the first which is why the game doesn't look dramatically better compared to ghost of tsushima but that's the direction they need to go in.
High quality games at a consistent clip will get them a big install base quickly.
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