That could be interpreted in many ways. For example, they won't have weaker but more expensive console.
36 CU GPU is designed for 399 dollars console. It seems that was always the case. Sony will definitely eat the cost and price it lower.
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That could be interpreted in many ways. For example, they won't have weaker but more expensive console.
36 CU GPU is designed for 399 dollars console. It seems that was always the case. Sony will definitely eat the cost and price it lower.
Throttle
Member
What's your thoughts on the Tflop difference versus the higher clock of the GPU? Can that close some of the gap?
pawel86ck
Banned
I dont feel like Odium info was far off and he even mentioned 10TF targed before (the same with Heisenberg).
because you sound like i child take responsibility for it you posted fake info pretending you have sources which makes you responsible like i you're responsible for your child, you should think twice before posting any info from anyone. we will see if mod of war keeps his word and take action like he said he will.
Osiris Black however with his 13TF target was obviously wrong. Also we have posters here that were claiming to have first hand knowledge and suggested 13TF. Now I only rememeber Henry Clark but there were more. For example when Spencer Has revealed XSX chip on guy here wrote a long post claiming that Sony can do the same, because he knows for a fact PS5 chip is more impressive.
lepermessiah
Member
Can't wait to see what Naughty Dog will do. Mark my words. SSD magic and ingenuity will beat raw flOPs. 
BGs
Industry Professional
Sorry but I'm worse, and my family too, so I'll make a general answer. If you can do me a favor, if someone asks something that is answered in this answer, please answer me with a link to this answer. If the answer is not answered I will answer as I can.
Go for it.
(start response 7:05 am)
Maybe my translations are not always correct, but when have I said what I highlight in bold?
One thing is the theoretical number and another thing is the difference, in practice, between the systems. The numbers are very good for Marketing. And yes, it is true, the specifications are what they are (although I do not agree that RAM plays in favor of XsX, rather the opposite). But at the Hardware level, in practice, it is the generation that has the least difference between one and the other. And what MC did yesterday didn't seem to imply that. That was my analysis. Regarding your question, there is a lot of custom hardware that compensates for the small difference. And above all (by historical analysis) games. That's what history is about. If people want to continue buying a system for its "power" it is in its right, but in my modest opinion it is a mistake. It was in the past and it is even more so now. The system should be purchased based on the games you want to play. The difference in quality between the multis will be negligible (or should be in practice), I would even dare to say that in practice we will see more multis from XsX weighing down PS5 than vice versa.
Of course, DF will never have problems finding differences. They live on that.
On the other hand, there are things that have not been said or have not been explored (by both sides).
Regarding the gif (which surely more than one will ask me) the pact with the devil were two factors. SSD first. I think you still have no idea what an SSD that loads 2GB in 0.27s means. Not only useful for load times, but for many more things. Sony's breakthrough in VR in terms of photorealism and immersion. There are more things that I can not comment on, but basically it really depends on the developers.
(end response 11:13 am) that is the seriousness of the situation
Burrito Bandito
Banned
im interested in seeing what their SSD can do in comparison to the XSX and how much was pr spin.
i feel like the 2-3 tflop difference and 44% more RT capabilities will be more noticable
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
because you sound like i child take responsibility for it you posted fake info pretending you have sources which makes you responsible like i you're responsible for your child, you should think twice before posting any info from anyone. we will see if mod of war keeps his word and take action like he said he will.
Take responsibility? Everything I heard was sent and looked at first before posting. I explained what was told to me, and then explained it as well as possible reasons and analysis as to what it could mean. I never once said anything other than what was said, and even went against what was said at some points, for example the memory, which I didn't agree with fully but gave the benefit of the doubt. I spent hours helping and explaining things to people that wasn't even connected to the same info, I even explained later once it was proven wrong as to what could have happened, and not back away or run away like you just said I did because I had the audacity to go to bed. Hell I don't see anybody else here explaining their bullshit, and some of them were VERY wide of the mark. And to top it all off, I'm sat here sick as a dog with this bloody illness and I'm STILL here?!
And now, I'm sat here and just found out that despite the schools closing, my wife and I are classed as key workers due to having educational roles, and we now need to go in, while my daughters school is shut. Meaning she has nobody to care for her and will be dumped in some setting with no control.
So I'll be quite clear here, don't mention my child ever again. You got what you deserved with the info, it was given on the basis that it was right, but nobody asked you to believe it. That's on you if you got burnt.
Think about it. My damn face, my background, my indie company, everything was out there in public view. I wasn't hiding behind a funny nickname, I wasn't anonymous. Why in the world of FUCK would I do that, if i wasn't sure what I was being given was good? I even put up with threats and all sorts from people and STILL didn't back down. Hell, the first numbers I was given were pretty much bang on, I just got new ones later.
I'm not wasting my time explaining shit to people like you anymore. Fuck it. You're not worth my time. Go take your frustration out that the ps5 wasn't what you wanted elsewhere. It's pathetic and not needed.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
I think there will be a difference in speed. I'm not convinced that the PS5 will stay at maximum throughput. I also see developing for the game being a bit of a hassle because of the power context switching. As Cerny was talking I started cringing because I knew where he was going with the GPU/CPU connection. I can imagine scenarios where this coupling could cause frame pacing issues. We'll have to see if there is a bottleneck there when games start to get benchmarked.
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
If the PS5 is priced right, already knowing I need more HDD storage then 825GB of any type of memory, I'll
That's possible, however, most adverts include the full size of the drive and do not subtract what's used already. The same holds true for PS4. The 1TB drive included and advertised on the box and in specs isn't all available for user storage either.
That's possible, however, most adverts include the full size of the drive and do not subtract what's used already. The same holds true for PS4. The 1TB drive included and advertised on the box and in specs isn't all available for user storage either.
M.Night Shyamalan
Member
Odium should be banned. The whole cu's and fucking pigeon shit, he did it all to laugh at peoples expense. He created all that shit in bad faith. Bet he laughed his ass off while stream was going on and it was his intention from the start of his charade. Anyone who outright made shit up deserves the same. Odium just has less shame than that fake insider Tommy Fisher, Odium actually wants to show up here after what he said. Shameless.
because you sound like i child take responsibility for it you posted fake info pretending you have sources which makes you responsible like i you're responsible for your child, you should think twice before posting any info from anyone. we will see if mod of war keeps his word and take action like he said he will.
xPikYx
Member
True, XSX has something similar, must be seen how the double speed of ps5 will act into real world. Something is for sure, on pc to have better performance you buy a better gpu, not a faster ssd, but here we have a custom approach to game development, we gotta wait and see a real world demonstration
mitchman
Gold Member
A 36 CU being used 80% is comparable to a 52 CU being used 70%, and the extra frequency makes all parts outside the CU faster, so the real difference between the consoles might not be that large as the numbers show.BGs could you (as a developer) clarify the claim that Cerny made about PS5's GPU being narrow and fast saying it's more performant (I think he meant more FPS?) Than going wide and slow (more CUs but at lower frequency). Anything you can say is appreciated! And get well soon!!
M-V2
Member
PS4 was 40% better than the Xbox one, while the Xbox SX is 16% is better than the ps5 so it's not the same lol
geordiemp
Member
Are some angry kid in his bedroom, grow up man.
Darius87
Member
in first place it's his fault to give doubtful info and pretend you have sources not some of us taking his info as it's factual true. when you doubt your sources you should take responsibility on yourself rather blaiming doubtfull sources of yours.
everyone here could put up some info and say i'm not sure that way ensures you from full responsibility.
geordiemp
Member
Looking at PC benchmarks is all I got to go on, and at 4K60 and nice settings would both not be running pretty hard ?
I dont think either will do 4K60 and lots of ray tracing, so I just want 4K60 really.
One thing to point out on, is this all happened last gen too. Both companies went on stage to talk about their new consoles. Xbox was the clear winner and you were embarrassed to be even seen with anyone who wanted a PS4. Then later in the year Sony done the old switch-a-roo and they became top dog and Xbox just looked like a big bag of dicks.
So it's important to say that although Xbox may have the upper hand currently, their is still plenty time for them to fuck up. Xbox need to keep this momentum up and they will be in a much better position next gen than they were this gen.
Chaos is a ladder.
So it's important to say that although Xbox may have the upper hand currently, their is still plenty time for them to fuck up. Xbox need to keep this momentum up and they will be in a much better position next gen than they were this gen.
Chaos is a ladder.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
FIRST. PARTY. SOURCE. Which just so happens to be the first info I was given At 10.5 would have been pretty much bang on for the upper limits, as it was even said they had lots of thermal issues. I was then given new numbers, and those numbers checked out as they were also reported elsewhere. Am I supposed to know that he sent me numbers because he, I assume got the willies and got nervous? I don't know. I still don't know. I'm waiting on a reply.
I was never once doubtful of my source otherwise I wouldn't post them.
You're wasting my time, and everybody else's. Take it to PM if you're that upset and it's ruined your bedtime routine.
Darius87
Member
keep enjoining while trolls keep lying to your face laughting and thinking how everyone stupid in here are.
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
That's not how it went at all... Xbox went on stage in May and everyone immediately made remarks on their TV TV TV presentation. PS4 was already top dog, and it was only made worse during E3.
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Darius87
Member
i'm not even replying to you and i'm wasting your time?
put me on ignore then, thank you in advance and before you put yours fake "first hand info in here " GET VETTED!!!bye and get well.
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Its not 44% more RT, the RT difference is the same as the TFLOP difference.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
I was there online for the moment, and the general reaction was one of me sat there with my hands on my face. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It was a classic case of "shut up shut up what are you talking about man!". It was just a colossal flop, and everybody was talking about it online for weeks afterwards.
It was one of the biggest fuck ups of a console launch I can remember. The PS5 one doesn't even come close. That's not to say that Sony haven't handled this all badly every step of the way, they have. MS have been on total top form with everything so far, from media presence to even making jokes, it's been perfect. But Sony have been utterly dreadful, which is a massive shame because they have a good product here.
Come E3 (time), all this two of spec will dispense. The games will do the talking.
PaintTinJr
Member
Cerny mentioning they've had to cap the frequency (in this boost strategy) to guarantee the other logic systems worked correctly – does imply dev kits were probably running at 10.5TF in line with the info you had– or were running at 10.5TF when they were using fixed clocks and variable power draw, before switching to high-end cooler and innovative/cutting edge boost strategy – a strategy that probably implies GPUs for Sony are staying at 36CUs, more BVH accelerators and possibly heading for the 3.2 -3.8GHz clocks at the midgen refresh.
Gavin Stevens
Formerly 'o'dium'
The audio between the two is on par and both are making huge leaps forward in audio implementation?
So, erm... Yes?
Nickolaidas
Banned
D
Deleted member 775630
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah it was. Look at this article which was released a couple of days after the reveal, but before E3. Sony immediately knew what to do, and passive aggressively let everyone know they are a gaming company, and not gimmicky media stuff.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I don't agree.
If some random guy like me say "not sure but my source says that..." than I could agree, everyone can do that.
But O'dium is not everyone, at the very least he is a developer, if he says he has a source of some sort it's because he much probably has, that's why he should be allowed to speak instead of be treated like an Average Joe.
At this point, if he says that he's not sure if the source is right or not, the least you can do is, well... take this in consideration?
So, to recap:
A developer had a source
He shared some infos that weren't totally EXACT, but he never pushed 13 tf or something and he said he could not be true because has no first hand experience.
People end up totally hoping he's right to the point they PRETENDED him to be right, now that he's wrong you want him to be banned.
It's not his problem, at the very least this way of reacting will led NeoGAF to have no insiders at all, not even potentially honest people who are just giving the thread some love instead of let random goonies speak about Youtubers.
Rumors are gonna appear anyway, the only thing you can do is considering what the premises are and conduct yourself.
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I'll need to have a look tonight to see what I must of been thinking of, because you're right, I'm totally wrong. Thanks for the heads up.
xool
Member
It's 5-6GB per sec, more if you include compression . lets call it 10 per sec .. that's 1GB/frame @10fps , 100MB/frame @100fps etc .. that's not enough to complete loading of a scene if it changes substantially
Darius87
Member
how can you be not sure and say that you don't have any doubts of your source? there are many users in this thread who called 10.5 tflops it's been guesed back and forth all possible ranges of Tflops so why wee all aren't called insiders? from first page in this thread there are no so called insiders except for tommy fisher which said exact numbers for xsex i'm not defending tf he's got most of things wrong but it only need to get one thing exact to prove that you really know something.
M.Night Shyamalan
Member
Oh. I was under the impression from your multiple posts on the issue that you and your mates were discussing specs in a cafeteria or something, as in close proximity. Now thats changed. It was a long distance relationship with information on next gen specs. 52coooo's and 36coo's are a big difference mate. Must've been nice being a god and having articles written about being an insider huh?
No no you'll only see true next gen on PS5!
It throttles power so hard! It needs a powerful SSD and fan just to keep up the throttling.
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VanSiriusGabriel
Member
I prefer an honest person over a trolling insider, exactly as you say Tommy Fisher got SeX right and all the rest TOTALLY wrong. Like, 13.3 FT, full BC, techland acquired or something, like really? You want this shit here, all for a correct number?
I do not know if Odium is REALLY honest, as you don't know either, but that's the point. I don't know and I say that I don't know and kept my doubt until reveal, you don't know and pretend others to tell you the absolute truth.
It's up to you to call him an insider or not, because he never wanted to be vetted, that's the point.
If he has a first party souce, of course he doesn't doubt his source in the sense that he's fucking sure that stuff are coming from basically Sony itself, not from anonimous indie devs. Yet, they could troll or whatever, so he's not sure about the infos.
Again, rumors gonna come, a couple of PROVED DEVS who may or not may got sources aren't gonna be worst than any other reddit rumor here, at the very least they can comment on what they got based on real experience and add to the discussion. BGs always do that, for example, doesn't matter if right or not.
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xool
Member
The second half on the 3d audio was interesting and would have made a proper talk.
The bit about the SSD seemed kindof redundant as multi-channel PCiE4.0 driver chips are available now (or "soon") that'll meet or exceed the PS5 performance. And yes, the GPU part was some spin/BS
Mendou
Banned
Turning a camera in game takes more than 1 frame.
Running from one room to another in a building, takes more than 1 frame.
Closing up on enemy takes more than one frame.
Etc etc.
Their goal it seems was ~100ms per 1Gb, they got to 270ms per 2GB.
That's more than enough for it to make it game changing.
If your camera is slow (typical action-adventure game) you can get to almost infinite detail.
lepermessiah
Member
Some interesting techy conversations over at Beyond3D atm, things are a lot more nuanced comparison wise, it's going to be interesting seeing the real-world results.
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SSfox
Member
It's not even that actually, Xbox One didn't have anything better than PS4 when it comes to specs, it wasn't just about TF.
If you go by just TF numbers, yes XSX is 16% more than PS5, but if you go by overall specs it can go much less specially because of the SSD that is twice faster, it can even go in the advantage of the PS5 when it comes to performance if the console is in good hands that will use the full power of all specs including GPU CPU and SSD all together.
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Darius87
Member
but how can you expect someone to know everything? like i said you only need one thing exactly right to be legit so means tommy fisher knows someone from ms side.
that's the point there's no reason for him to not be vetted mods in here don't share any info about insiders it's all 100% confident, by not doing that he can't to be taken seriously as real insider.
if he's a dev in a first place i don't think dev would troll other dev so there's no reason to be not sure about your info, as he said he haven't got any doubt of his first hand source. that's just doesn't make sense.
Throttle
Member
He did say it stays at those clocks most of the time and that the downclocks should be minimal, a couple % being enough to decrease heat by 10%.
What I'm asking you is this: based on your knowledge of PC cards and assuming it maintains those high clocks, will the 16% Tflop advantage of Series X amount to a 16% advantage of real performance?
it_wasn't_me
Banned
Just read this and how CPU and GPU variable clock maybe will work in PS5
New Switch mod delivers real-time CPU, GPU and thermal monitoring - and the results are remarkable
New Switch mod delivers real-time CPU, GPU and thermal monitoring - and the results are remarkable
Neo Blaster
Member
Cerny's presentation really made me have PS3's alien architecture vibes, but without all the complexity developers complained so much about. Seems to me Sony struggled a lot to make custom parts with the sole purpose of shifting data as fast as possible inside the system, avoiding bottlenecks and redundancies that waste processing power, time and memory/storage space. How is that in real life? Unfortunately Sony didn't show, and that's were they failed yesterday. In paper, their specs are inferior to XSX but the SSD. You don't make a point about the world's fastest system against the strongest without showing at least some technical demos. Gosh, even Minecraft and a redone Gears 5 worked in MS' favour. I still trust in Cerny, but from now on they must SHOW what PS5 can do, or MS will ride the waves of the power narrative without breaking a sweat.
VanSiriusGabriel
Member
It's not about knowing everything. I don't give a damn if Fisher has sources, other things he said were much probably pure TROLLING, because they were so exagerated and yet not even explained by him that one could think that. Plus, he never added truly to the discussion, he just shows up and throw a thing (mostly wrong).
The reason to not get vetted is that he doesn't want to. What's the point of being vetted if you you're not 100% sure of your data? Everyone does the hell he wants, if OsirisBlack wanted to get vetted that's totally fine, it's totally fine also that another guy doesn't want because he HOPE people will not take him as 100% truth. But you are right. He can't be taken seriously as an insider, so do not set expectation on his info and just go with the flow instead of asking for bans.
Instead, source or not, if an insider who INVENT STUFF only to troll like Tommy Fisher (probably) is better, than don't know what to tell you.
Already explained what I think about the first party source and whatnot.
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Throttle
Member
Do you have exemples of graphics cards benchmarks showing this in practice? I remember that the Vega 64 did not perform as well as the Tflops would suggest compared to the 56, but would be nice to see testes done with RDNA cards, or even Nvidia for that matter.
VFXVeteran
Banned
It could. We really don't know at this point. We could see a lot of games could go true 4k for XSX while PS5 could render at 1440p upscaled to 4k to maintain consistent FPS.
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