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[RedVIper]

Outside of fighting games, this is so wrong I'm actually 100% sure you know it and feel bad now for typing such a blatant lie. The only reason I'm not flooding the thread with examples is because everyone knows already that what you said is just stupid.

Go to the any GAF thread about this game for the last 2 years and you'll quickly see how wrong you are.

.

 

[Papacheeks]

So what. Ellie was written by Neil. Ellie is a 100x better character than Chloe.

DId you play lost legacy?

And even in Uncharted 2 she's a great character who has ups and downs. Then even starts showing to be more reasonable in 3.

Ellie might be lets say more real because of how they wrote the world and characters in that world. As opposed to uncharted which have more movie like characters. Both have their story arcs and well written scenes. Just Ellie is to be more serious in the themes/story they went with.

 

[Jubenhimer]

The problem people have with Drukman is that he tries to force his politics onto people in the most unsubtle and ham-fisted ways possible. Sure Elie is a good character, but she's not the only way to make a good female character, or a good character in general. The problem with people like Drukman is that they've stopped seeing people through the lens of flaws, motivations and ideas, and started seeing them through superficial details like race, gender, sexual identity, and looks. If you ask me, the latter is actually more insulting to women and minorities than simply just writing characters first, then worrying about their race & gender last.

Sure, you can make a good female character who isn't overly sexualized, but you can also make a good female character who is sexualized. The goal is to make us care about their personality and motivations, rather than how they look.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Go to the any GAF thread about this game for the last 2 years and you'll quickly see how wrong you are.

See above. I don't need to go to any thread from 2 years ago when people didn't even know what the story was.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

So creators can force their own views on everybody that plays? It would be offensive if Druckman was doing it in his own company, but doing it on a platform that is made by gamers that want nothing to do with his agenda is disgusting. Nobody wants to see his politics. Just make good games with functional characters that offend nobody. If you put politics into your games, then when people do get offended don't cry on threads.

"offend nobody" boy what a dull, safe world you want to live in. Sounds like what I'd hear from a safe space at a college university.

 

[Whitesnake]

He never said sexy characters can't be role models. Indeed, he calls the sexy characters in his presentation role models. Direct quote: "Whether we want to admit it or not, these are role models." He just thinks women are objectified too much in games. HIS opinion. So he created Ellie, who isn't sexualized. What's the big deal?

He calls them role models with the implication that they shouldn't be role models.

"Whether you want to admit it or not" implies that the idea of sexy female characters being role models would be a shameful thing to admit, which is then furthered by his insistence that sexualization is bad.

He can give his opinion without trying to tear down great characters. The fact that he doesn't see anything in these characters past their sex appeal tells you a lot about his ass-backwards ideology.

 

[Mod of War]

Reminder to keep the hostile theatrics low. If you can't make your points without throwing petty insults at one another, then we can help remove you until that emotional investment settles down.

 

[Airbus Jr]

The sooner they part ways with tlou series the better

Time for ND to move over to new ip

 

[yeeeeeezy]

If the story was amazing and there was a couple lesbian scenes there would be no outrage. Its clear the outrage is coming from the story then people are pushing the SJW agenda as the reason for the shit story.

so I posted in the spoiler thread how it's pursuing an sjw agenda. Nobody gave me an answer

 

[Durask]

Chloe from Uncharted is incredibly sexy. And she uses her sex appeal to get her way.

Never played Uncharged so I googled her.

Incredibly sexy?
To me this design is more like "well at least not ugly".

 

[DeepEnigma]

You can't find me a single quote where he says "sexy characters cannot be deep or interesting or inspirational." Indeed, Chloe from Uncharted is incredibly sexy. And she uses her sex appeal to get her way.

Never played Uncharged so I googled her.

Incredibly sexy?
To me this design is more like "well at least not ugly".

Chloe had more sex appeal (in UC2) before they slowly spayed her over time as the mind virus was gaining control I noticed.

Amy Hennig ND had sex appeal, ironically.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

The problem with people like Drukman is that they've stopped seeing people through the lens of flaws, motivations and ideas, and started seeing them through superficial details like race, gender, sexual identity, and looks. If you ask me, the latter is actually more insulting to women and minorities than simply just writing characters first, then worrying about their race & gender last.

See I actually think the opposite is true. His critics look at a muscular female character and automatically assume it's pursuing an SJW agenda without knowing her motivations, personality, flaws etc. They just look at the fact that she's muscular and female and automatically write her off. It's an identity based argument that the left uses all the time. You know who I'm not worried about writing fantastic, fleshed out characters? Neil and ND.

 

[Saber]

How does that one man's opinion affect you?

Affect me or affect the games?
He can create the games all he wants. But when he didactes whats right and wrong for games, then thats a problem.

Or does your commentary only was posted as provocation?

 

[Jubenhimer]

See I actually think the opposite is true. His critics look at a muscular female character and automatically assume it's pursuing an SJW agenda without knowing her motivations, personality, flaws etc. They just look at the fact that she's muscular and female and automatically write her off. It's an identity based argument that the left uses all the time. You know who I'm not worried about writing fantastic, fleshed out characters? Neil and ND.

Considering what's been leaked about her actions, I can't blame people for being very skeptical. We'll see if The Last of Us II is as bad on the story front as many fear when the game actually releases. But you have to understand why people are pushing back. Considering his views, and the way Uncharted 4's plot was handled, people aren't willing to give Drukman the benefit of the doubt at this point.

I agree that its too early to write TLoU II's story off without any proper context. Who knows, maybe there's more to these plot points than what the leaks suggest. But without the game released, all we can do is speculate.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Affect me or affect the games?
He can create the games all he wants. But when he didactes whats right and wrong for games, then thats a problem.

Or does your commentary only was posted as provocation?

It's one studio, I don't see why people can't just ignore it

 

[Saber]

It's one studio, I don't see why people can't just ignore it

This thread is not about a studio. Its about Ellie and Neil. Keep that in mind before throwing provoke type of answers.

 

[Mojo1990]

.

 

[Moogle11]

It's one studio, I don't see why people can't just ignore it

Exactly. He doesn't dictate shit to other studios. There are tons of games that still come out with sexually attractive characters. FF7 and Tifa and her giant jugs on a tiny frame being a recent example (and one I liked).

Don't like Naughty Dogs character designs or their "agenda"? Don't buy their games and spend your money on other studio's products where you like their designs and aren't put off by any agenda etc.

People are free to vote with their wallets. There are more games than ever coming out for nearly every taste. There's no reason for outrage over one studio. Be it things like this or things the SJWs rage against. Both sides should just buy what they like and skip what they don't. Problem solved.

 

[Woggleman]

"offend nobody" boy what a dull, safe world you want to live in. Sounds like what I'd hear from a safe space at a college university.

It's amazing how similar some of them sound. If you set out to offend nobody then you get dull and boring, At this point if people don't like it then don't play it. What is the point of all the outrage over something you don't like anyway? Play something else.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Affect me or affect the games?
He can create the games all he wants. But when he didactes whats right and wrong for games, then thats a problem.

Or does your commentary only was posted as provocation?

I didn't know Neil was appointed the moral arbiter of what is right and wrong in video games. How does Neil 'dictate' his prescription for the gaming industry? I think he's just giving his opinion dude

 

[THEAP99]

Believe or not, game developers like Neil are human and have their own personal views on how certain things are made, yes..
I also fail to see why his personal views even matter considering they had them influencing him during the first game, and they're influencing him again for this game and yet Ellie looks just about how I could picture an older one looking.

Spoiler: ellie screenshots from the new story trailer

I mean seriously? She even kind of looks like Hailee Steinfield a little bit, what is there to be mad about? LOL

Also, cry all you want about an "agenda" but it is you clearly who have your own personal agenda you can't put aside when games aren't the way they want you to be made. We all are human and have "agendas." What differentiates people with "agendas" though are the ones who can not be a snowflake and put it aside to enjoy a piece of media. But keep being hypocritical lol

 

[Saber]

I didn't know Neil was appointed the moral arbiter of what is right and wrong in video games. How does Neil 'dictate' his prescription for the gaming industry? I think he's just giving his opinion dude

I wouldn't call an opinion throwing a meeting and showing picture of sexualized girls and then tell them this is wrong.
But if thats opinion to you, ok. But why the necessity of a thread just to talk about an opinion?

 

[iorek21]

Druckmann is free to do whatever he wants with his games, as far I 'm concerned.

But that also means that I'm free to choose if I buy his games or not. That's the best what we can do.

Don't like ND's agenda? Stop buying their games, simple.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

TLOU is one of the most popular games ever specifically because of Joel and Ellie, of course he's right.

One game, it doesn't matter, there are many game franchises with multiple games that can only dream of being as popular as TLOU has become after one game.

This is a pretty bad take. For numerous reasons. Yikes man. Yikes.

 

[Strategize]

This is a pretty bad take. For numerous reasons. Yikes man. Yikes.

It's not a take, I'm telling you facts.

If you don't think the reason the game is popular is because of it's protagonists, you're clueless.

 

[Woggleman]

Druckmann is free to do whatever he wants with his games, as far I 'm concerned.

But that also means that I'm free to choose if I buy his games or not. That's the best what we can do.

Don't like ND's agenda? Stop buying their games, simple.

Exactly but some people seem offended by this game's very existence. Why can't they just do that instead of making countless outrage videos acting as if ND murdered one of their loved ones.

 

[AtomicStarving]

"Ellie is one of the most beloved characters in gaming "

lol

For me, Ciri >>>>>>>> black hole >>>>>>>>> rest

Neil and his ego... disgusting.

 

[Valt7786]

Exactly but some people seem offended by this game's very existence. Why can't they just do that instead of making countless outrage videos acting as if ND murdered one of their loved ones.

Spoiler

Er, depending on how you feel about certain characters in these games....they kinda did.

 

[HellforLeather]

Ellie and Joel are probably some of the best, most completely fleshed out characters in gaming. Its a big reason why TLOU was so impossibly fucking great.

Is Ellie a role model??? I dont think anyone in the TLOU is supposed to be a role model but we will see. Based on what they've shown in the trailer....well

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I wouldn't call an opinion throwing a meeting and showing picture of sexualized girls and then tell them this is wrong.
But if thats opinion to you, ok. But why the necessity of a thread just to talk about an opinion?

You can actually argue that Neil was being misogynistic at that moment because he literally judged characters like Cortana and Ayane just based on their appearance.

 

[ScarletSpider]

.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Exactly but some people seem offended by this game's very existence. Why can't they just do that instead of making countless outrage videos acting as if ND murdered one of their loved ones.

Because of politics. Politics is a blood sport. And this game has the center right, anti sjw types all riled up.

 

[iorek21]

Exactly but some people seem offended by this game's very existence. Why can't they just do that instead of making countless outrage videos acting as if ND murdered one of their loved ones.

Yep, and some of the same people that complains about TLOU2 will end up preordering or buying the game anyway, and thus financing more of the woke bullshit

 

[yeeeeeezy]

You can actually argue that Neil was being misogynistic at that moment because he literally judged characters like Cortana and Ayane just based on their appearance.

and what about the complaints about ND having a muscular woman in their game?

 

[Woggleman]

The thing is that it shouldn't even be political. Strong women and gays are a natural part of life and the fact their mere presence in a game is seen as political to some gives credibility to SJWs. It makes it easier for them to paint at gamers or nerds and call us bigoted.

 

[wolywood]

The problem people have with Drukman is that he tries to force his politics onto people in the most unsubtle and ham-fisted ways possible.

Force his politics onto people? Prior to TLOU2 Druckmann is credited as a writer on Uncharted 1-4, Jax and Daxter: The Lost Frontier, and The Last Of Us. None of which attempt to force any kind of political viewpoint onto players, as far as I can remember. Maybe TLOU2 is ham-fisted (I haven't seen the spoilers) but there's really nothing in his body of work that should inspire this level of outrage.

 

[nemiroff]

Druckman is free to create, and we are free to criticize. If Druckman is influenced by SJWs and shitty ideologies and uses his experience to shoehorns his experience into games then it's logical that people find it interesting to discuss it in a forum. The answer to the "so what" part is A: Killing popular characters because he knows people love them. B: Characters and narrative created largely around the SJW stick Anita shoved up his arse.

 

[Pallas]

I think a lot of young girls do look up to Ellie. She's tough, determined, competent, funny and doesn't take shit from anyone. Pretty cool character.

That is where your problem is at, you are assuming stuff but moving on ...

All great qualities, no one is arguing that. What people do not like is Druckmann thinking that's how women should be and forcing it into mediums such as games. He talks too much, and thinks his opinion is worth more than others.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

and what about the complaints about ND having a muscular woman in their game?

What about your tu quoque fallacy?

 

[Woggleman]

Yep, and some of the same people that complains about TLOU2 will end up preordering or buying the game anyway, and thus financing more of the woke bullshit

They will buy and complain about how terrible it is while they secretly play the game every night.

 

[Jtibh]

Ted bundy is a role model too then right?
He was very beloved by many.

Oh the left is realy grasping for straws now that the whole russia gate backfired with trump.

And just look at these account like woogleman and jeeezy and co.
80 post total since january i mean its fucking cleae whats going on here.
Using fake accounts to push leftist shit.
The amount of people i never heaed of that show up in the tlou2 threads is insane.

 

[Saber]

You can actually argue that Neil was being misogynistic at that moment because he literally judged characters like Cortana and Ayane just based on their appearance.

It seems like its the same people pretend to "wanting discussion", but in the end throwing the typical "why people cry" or "don't buy the game" type of comments in order to ofuscate his criticism against sexy characters, as if sexy characters doesn't have any qualities as any other.

 

[Jubenhimer]

Force his politics onto people? Prior to TLOU2 Druckmann is credited as a writer on Uncharted 1-4, Jax and Daxter: The Lost Frontier, and The Last Of Us. None of which attempt to force any kind of political viewpoint onto players, as far as I can remember. Maybe TLOU2 is ham-fisted (I haven't seen the spoilers) but there's really nothing in his body of work that should inspire this level of outrage.

That was before Drukman heard of Anita Sarkeesian. It's not that Drukman's incapable of telling a good story. We've seen that he's obviously got talent, but he's become so blinded and consumed by identity politics in recent years, that his more recent works suffer because of them. Maybe TLoU Part II won't be as bad as it's looking, maybe it will. It's hard to say when the game's not even out. But based on how he handled Uncharted 4, and what we've seen of TLoU II so far. All I'm saying is that you can't blame people for being cynical.

 

[yeeeeeezy]

That was before Drukman heard of Anita Sarkeesian. It's not that Drukman's incapable of telling a good story. We've seen that he's obviously got talent, but he's become so blinded and consumed by identity politics in recent years, that his more recent works suffer because of them. Maybe TLoU Part II won't be as bad as it's looking, maybe it will. It's hard to say when the game's not even out. But based on how he handled Uncharted 4, and what we've seen of TLoU II so far. All I'm saying is that you can't blame people for being cynical.

the video I linked in the first page referenced Anita. It's what everyone freaks out about. And he ended up creating arguably the game of the generation with those influences.

 

[HaveButOneLife]

"offend nobody" boy what a dull, safe world you want to live in. Sounds like what I'd hear from a safe space at a college university.

Neil's idea of "offense" is personally attacking his "fanbase".

You're not defending it, but you're certainly damage controlling it. If most of the fanbase can get it and you can't then I don't know how you'll be convinced.

But if I had to try, shout out to Razorfist:

Spoiler

 

[Jtibh]

Neil's idea of "offense" is personally attacking his "fanbase".

You're not defending it, but you're certainly damage controlling it. If most of the fanbase can get it and you can't then I don't know how you'll be convinced.

But if I had to try, shout out to Razorfist:

Look at his account.
Not worth the interaction in my mind.

 

[wolywood]

That was before Drukman heard of Anita Sarkeesian. It's not that Drukman's incapable of telling a good story. We've seen that he's obviously got talent, but he's become so blinded and consumed by identity politics in recent years, that his more recent works suffer because of them. Maybe TLoU Part II won't be as bad as it's looking, maybe it will. It's hard to say when the game's not even out. But based on how he handled Uncharted 4, and what we've seen of TLoU II so far. All I'm saying is that you can't blame people for being cynical.

What was the problem with Uncharted 4? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Strategize]

That was before Drukman heard of Anita Sarkeesian. It's not that Drukman's incapable of telling a good story. We've seen that he's obviously got talent, but he's become so blinded and consumed by identity politics in recent years, that his more recent works suffer because of them. Maybe TLoU Part II won't be as bad as it's looking, maybe it will. It's hard to say when the game's not even out. But based on how he handled Uncharted 4, and what we've seen of TLoU II so far. All I'm saying is that you can't blame people for being cynical.

Ah yes, the great identity politics of Uncharted 4, in which Nadine is the *checks notes* 6th most important character to that games story? And is in about 3 scenes.

 

[oagboghi2]

They are also center right channels who constantly rage about sjw stuff and don't even give a shit about TLOU. I know because I'm subscribed to them all. I understand many are upset with narrative choices. But much of the online hate is coming from people with political agendas.

Than why the fuck do you care? I'm sorry but you sound like an ass right now. You don't know why people are upset at TLOU spoilers. It looks like you are more upset that YouTubers made youtube videos based on the thumbnails..

By the way, multiple people have responded to that video in the op and you've ignored them. What is the point of this thread, honestly? Is this just another weak attempt to defend Neil and Naughty Dog?

the video I linked in the first page referenced Anita. It's what everyone freaks out about. And he ended up creating arguably the game of the generation with those influences.

Okay...this is a lost cause

 

[yeeeeeezy]

Look at his account.
Not worth the interaction in my mind.

but I must get my rage on from 'rageoholic'. And again with the mocking of muscular women. For the life of me I don't understand how you can be against identity politics and then rage about the identity of the individual (muscular woman).