Neil Druckmann's politics/values influenced the design of Ellie. So what?

But it's not just that though, he's saying that female characters having sex appeal at all is "marginilization", "misogyny", "objectification", etc. He also believes that, since all female protagonists are role models for little girls, that means these that these characters having sex appeal will instill these supposed societal ills among our youth.

He doesn't just not like them, and he's doesn't just believe that they're bad characters (which is an opinion dumb enough to be criticized on its own), he believes that these characters' mere existence is a societal problem.

You can't just handwave that away when he's literally telling you that this is what he believes.

Neil said he designed Chloe to be sexualized and use that to her advantage. He doesn't think there's anything wrong with sexualized characters, but he think there's just needs to be a meaning behind it. One example may be like the women in Sin City.
 
So people are rightfully calling that belief stupid.

People are calling him stupid for believing something so stupid.

What aren't you getting?
You're honestly suggesting young girls don't look at idealized women in entertainment and compare those woman to themselves? It's a pretty common thing. And it shouldn't be controversial or sjw to acknowledge this fact.
 
Honestly a lot of children do that with pop music artists and maybe movie stars. Not video game characters.

Spot fucking on! I have a 10 year old daughter who is influenced HEAVILY by the music videos she watches and, surprisingly to me, the YouTube videos she watches. She plays her Xbox fairly often and NEVER once has come away acting anything like her video game characters she plays. EVER!
 
yeeeeeezy yeeeeeezy Not every character in video games meant to "look up to". Caim in Drakengard is fascinating and really interesting character but no father/mother should ever let his/her son to look up to Caim because that guy straight up bloodthirsty monster but that what makes him interesting character.
 
This wuss probably conceived his daughter with him and his wife having a curtain separating them with a pinhole cut out to put his dick through as he cried, 5 seconds later when he finished he washed away the dirty and sat in the shower crying even more
 
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It's not a take, I'm telling you facts.

If you don't think the reason the game is popular is because of it's protagonists, you're clueless.
You are generalizing and projecting. Make a better argument than telling others how you can peer into the minds of the masses and people won't be critical of your opinion.
 
You're honestly suggesting young girls don't look at idealized women in entertainment and compare those woman to themselves? It's a pretty common thing. And it shouldn't be controversial or sjw to acknowledge this fact.

People wanting to be attractive isn't even a problem.

It's certainly not a problem that stems from fictional characters being attractive, and it's certainly wouldn't be solved by not making attractive characters.
 
hey man, give it a rest and stop lying. you're flat out making stuff up by saying that I only chime in "about left propaganda." majority of my posts are otherwise. Again, if you have a problem with what i said, why not discuss the contents rather than come after me personally.

I'm done with the back and forth. I hope you have a nice day and I truly apologize for triggering you. was just trying to throw my take into the discussion. hope you and loved ones stay safe and healthy in this craziness.
Man you almost make me like you.

And i asked someone here who is masculine cuz ellie aint it and i am still waiting for an answer.
My forehead has more muscles than she has

Thats my only contribution here
 
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So? His game, his characters.

Welp, note the difference between two "his game"s: "TLOU2" vs "The Kingdom Come: Deliverance".
The latter would face consequences for his decisions.
The former, however? Uh, it's an almost endless budget for a "platform seller" studio, whatever happens, it will still sell plenty and nobody would dare firing guy, who "received death threats" and is so "progressive".

He basically faces no consequences for his own decisions. That's a very different sort of "his game" to me.
 
yeeeeeezy yeeeeeezy Not every character in video games meant to "look up to". Caim in Drakengard is fascinating and really interesting character but no father/mother should ever let his/her son to look up to Caim because that guy straight up bloodthirsty monster but that what makes him interesting character.
True. I definitely wouldn't want my child looking up to Doom guy.
 
I don't know anything about TLOU2 leaks, so I don't know about the implications for this game.

Developers have the right to put whatever they want in their games and gamers have a right to buy the games and like or dislike it and voice their opinions as to why. It's a good system.
 
Neil said he designed Chloe to be sexualized and use that to her advantage. He doesn't think there's anything wrong with sexualized characters, but he think there's just needs to be a meaning behind it. One example may be like the women in Sin City.

You see no issue with the take of "Characters shouldn't be attractive unless their attractiveness is a core tenet of their character"?
 
You're honestly suggesting young girls don't look at idealized women in entertainment and compare those woman to themselves? It's a pretty common thing. And it shouldn't be controversial or sjw to acknowledge this fact.
Are you talking about this effect?


9dNRsWI.png


Results of this experiment were striking—with the exception of two women, all of the participants who were coded as engaging in indirect aggression were assigned to the sexy condition.
In a follow-up experiment, Vaillancourt & Sharma [78] demonstrated that the sexy confederate from their first study was perceived as a sexual rival.
 
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yeeeeeezy yeeeeeezy Not every character in video games meant to "look up to". Caim in Drakengard is fascinating and really interesting character but no father/mother should ever let his/her son to look up to Caim because that guy straight up bloodthirsty monster but that what makes him interesting character.

I've been playing video games for well over 30 years now and I can tell you right now, I have not ever in my life looked up to 1 video game character! It's a fucking game! A GAME! It is a character in a fucking game! I'd actually be real worried if anyone I know was influenced by a bloody video game!!! I mean, the media tried to make us believe that those 2 fucking psycho's were influenced by Doom to kill the kids in the school, so maybe video games DO influence people...!
 
How do you know he had no input in designing Chloe?
He co wrote uncharted 2. He def had input. I remember seeing a vid where he talked about Chloe being sexy and using that sexiness to her advantage. I can't recall which one it was tho
 
I'm sure it's a lot more difficult for an ugly woman than an ugly man to go thru life.
Imo wrong. It's certainly more difficult for an ugly woman than for a beautiful one.
However, even ugly and poor women with bad personality, usually, have no problem finding tons of willing partners (not only in bed, but also for financial support). They are only in trouble if they are picky.

But if you are an ugly and poor man... that's generally far worse. Even ugly women have standards and society cares less about men.
 
the video I linked in the first page referenced Anita. It's what everyone freaks out about. And he ended up creating arguably the game of the generation with those influences.
If you are referencing part 1, In a world where we got Demon's Souls, Dark Souls 1 and 2, The Mass Effect Trilogy, Skyrim, Fallout 3, Halo 3, ODST and Reach, MGS 4, GTA V and the Uncharted games...

You are reaching for that GOAT.

And if you are referencing 2... it ain't out yet.
 
I've been playing video games for well over 30 years now and I can tell you right now, I have not ever in my life looked up to 1 video game character! It's a fucking game! A GAME! It is a character in a fucking game! I'd actually be real worried if anyone I know was influenced by a bloody video game!!! I mean, the media tried to make us believe that those 2 fucking psycho's were influenced by Doom to kill the kids in the school, so maybe video games DO influence people...!
Thats exactly it, you don't play video games to have character to look up to, you play video game for interesting story and characters and most interesting story comes from characters that are deeply flawed or have over the top personality and design.

At end of the day they are entertainment, not some educational tool for your kids.
 
Imo wrong. It's certainly more difficult for an ugly woman than for a beautiful one.
However, even ugly and poor women with bad personality, usually, have no problem finding tons of willing partners (not only in bed, but also for financial support). They are only in trouble if they are picky.

But if you are an ugly and poor man... that's generally far worse. Even ugly women have standards and society cares less about men.
disagree completely. An ugly man can get a beautiful girl - by personality or money. An ugly woman can't get a handsome man, even if she has money or a great personality.
 
Thats exactly it, you don't play video games to have character to look up to, you play video game for interesting story and characters and most interesting story comes from characters that are deeply flawed or have over the top personality and design.

At end of the day they are entertainment, not some educational tool for your kids.
I agree with this completely. Which is why criticism of of ND's new character for being a muscular woman are so off putting. It's superficial. It's an identity politics based appeal. It tells me nothing of her character, her motivations, her personality. All it does is mock her physical appearance.
 
I agree with this completely. Which is why criticism of of ND's new character for being a muscular woman are so off putting. It's superficial. It's an identity politics based appeal. It tells me nothing of her character, her motivations, her personality. All it does is mock her physical appearance.

So, to be clear:

"Attractive characters are a societal cancer" = perfectly fine take that isn't worthy of criticism.

"This unattractive character is unattractive" = bad take based on identity politics

???
 
But if you are an ugly and poor man... that's generally far worse. Even ugly women have standards and society cares less about men.
Yup, i'm quite amazed at how some people, especially those that like screaming progressive ideals, still don't realize that.

If you're an ugly men with some low tier job, forget about being seen by others as anything more than some pebble in the road.
If he's a minority he can still get some brownie points from SJW's, but if he's some white neckbeard, then its 0 sympathy. Might even be called an oppressor despite barely being able to pay bills and living a depressed lonely life.
 
And where did he say this?

You said he did.

Did you lie to me?

He doesn't think there's anything wrong with sexualized characters, but he think there's just needs to be a meaning behind it.

Cortana's reason for her attractiveness is because she's literally the digitized consciousness of a character who used to look like that.
Quiet's reason for her skimpy clothing is that her lungs are burned and she's only alive because her skin was experimented upon so it's photosynthetic. She breathes through her skin.

If those reasons are not meaningful enough, but "she flirts to get her way" is meaningful, then the only possible conclusion is that the meaning behind a character's attractiveness must be that the attractiveness is part of the core of that character.

Otherwise these standards are blatantly hypocritical and make absolutely no sense at all.
 
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I said maybe he did? Can you read?

It's still Amy's character. Not Niels.
Sure I can. I'm just asking for evidence of your claims. So far you have brought nothing.

I know you're just going to make up things with no facts so I don't really have anything else to say now lol
 
There is this popular assumption that players want video games to be close to real. People don't.

If we wanted realistic, we shouldn't ever expect to play split-screen because that doesn't happen in real life -
Oh, and there shouldn't be any slow motion parts either because that doesn't happen in real life. There shouldn't be subtitles either because there's no subtitles appearing under anybody I know. Aaaand landing on your feet from thirty feet would fuckin hurt in real life. And the last time I checked there's no such thing as zombies -
You get the picture.

People expect realism in games, but this supposed realism is accompanied by features that are simply ludicrous, yet you accept them!

Video games, by their nature, are unrealistic. They're the stuff of fantasy! So why can't females and males be ridiculously sexy, attractive, and scantily clad in fighting games? The fighting is BEYOND unrealistic!
 
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Sure I can. I'm just asking for evidence of your claims. So far you have brought nothing.

I know you're just going to make up things with no facts so I don't really have anything else to say now lol


Do you see Neils's name? I see Amy

Where's your evidence that Neil had any influence on the character then? We know for a fact it was Amy's character, so it's your turn.
 
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Thats exactly it, you don't play video games to have character to look up to, you play video game for interesting story and characters and most interesting story comes from characters that are deeply flawed or have over the top personality and design.

At end of the day they are entertainment, not some educational tool for your kids.

I can play the newest Streets of Rage 4 as an of the female characters and not feel like I need to control a male cause I am a male! That's just fucking pathetic! It's an avatar! I am in control no matter the character on screen. No matter what they look or sound like. I am in complete control! I am an active participant in what is happening. Video games are completely different to any other form of art- we control everything that happens. So I don't look at Yoshi in Yoshi's Island and say I can't play this game as I don't relate... That's fucking stupid.
 
Video games, by their nature, are unrealistic. They're the stuff of fantasy! So why can't females and males be ridiculously sexy, attractive, and scantily clad in fighting games? The fighting is BEYOND unrealistic!
In certain games that does fit in the world of the TLOU it might not be realistic but it is supposed to be a more grounded and believable experience. They are supposed to look and act like real people instead of super humans. That is what the game is going for.
 
In certain games that does fit in the world of the TLOU it might not be realistic but it is supposed to be a more grounded and believable experience. They are supposed to look and act like real people instead of super humans. That is what the game is going for.

Then why does the new playable character look like he-man?
 
So, to be clear:

"Attractive characters are a societal cancer" = perfectly fine take that isn't worthy of criticism.

"This unattractive character is unattractive" = bad take based on identity politics

???
You're conflating attractiveness with hypersexualization. Elena from Uncharted = attractive but not sexualized.
You can find a character unattractive sexually. What do I care?
 
Welp, note the difference between two "his game"s: "TLOU2" vs "The Kingdom Come: Deliverance".
The latter would face consequences for his decisions.
The former, however? Uh, it's an almost endless budget for a "platform seller" studio, whatever happens, it will still sell plenty and nobody would dare firing guy, who "received death threats" and is so "progressive".

He basically faces no consequences for his own decisions. That's a very different sort of "his game" to me.
In any case, two wrongs don't make a right.
 
You're conflating attractiveness with hypersexualization. Elena from Uncharted = attractive but not sexualized.
You can find a character unattractive sexually. What do I care?

So the line is drawn when the attractive woman shows off her body? That's when it becomes blasphemy that's corrupting our youth?
 
In certain games that does fit in the world of the TLOU it might not be realistic but it is supposed to be a more grounded and believable experience. They are supposed to look and act like real people instead of super humans. That is what the game is going for.
Idk I can find a weak female killing 100s of males without any effort 'realistic' .

TLOU fantasy world is just as real as a female dominating NBA making chase down blocks on Giannis and becoming finals MVP by locking down Lebron and averaging 40 PPG.
 
That's a massive fail at my part 😅
Never took the time to look at the credits.
Yeah I think there was even some controversy because you could see her boobs in a reflection in the game and she wasn't kosher with that.

In fact I think there was also some controversy over the first TLOU where Page wasn't cool either with feeling that Ellie was inspired from her.
 
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You said he did.

Did you lie to me?
You took my words out of context. I never said that.


Cortana's reason for her attractiveness is because she's literally the digitized consciousness of a character who used to look like that.
Quiet's reason for her skimpy clothing is that her lungs are burned and she's only alive because her skin was experimented upon so it's photosynthetic.

If those reasons are not meaningful enough, but "she flirts to get her way" is meaningful, then the only possible conclusion is that the meaning behind a character's attractiveness must be inherent to that character.

Otherwise these standards are blatantly hypocritical and make absolutely no sense at all.

I'll make a simplified version of what he's saying.

We often objectify these sexualized female characters. That's the appeal and we know that. If we see a hot woman walking around in a thong, then we're going to treat her different than some innocent cute looking woman who is barely showing any skin.


His issue is that we're seeing too many of these female characters. He realized this because he almost tried to make one himself in The Last of Us with the clickers.
 
"offend nobody" boy what a dull, safe world you want to live in. Sounds like what I'd hear from a safe space at a college university.
Dull is injecting politics to compromise your game. Anything is more exciting than that. Interesting how you think having offensive content to any of your target group in your entertainment is the way to go.
 
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