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[Trueblakjedi]

But technically, what XSX can do, PS5 can do at lower res/performance with higher details.
So that's the trade-off.

I'd rather have 1440p/30fps (maybe pushed to 4K CB) with high graphical fidelity than native 4K/30fps with medium graphical fidelity and 40% better ray-tracing.
Give or take, just an hypothetical example.

And like that Dirt 5 dev said, we might see sections on XSX, for example, where there's an elevator section that's absent on PS5.

Because that's probably the kind of differences we can expect (as far as I understand).
And ultimately, it's probably barely noticeable to the average consumer either way.

Wrong on nearly all counts. There are no texture quality levels that XSX cannot fully reproduce in frame. No level.

Second you mixed up the dirt5 dev with Bill Stilwell. Bill stillwell was being generous with saying if the PS5 SSd could really do what Sony says then MS devs can simply intro an elevator. That was tongue in cheek.

The dirt five dev did say that that basically there was nothing you couldn't load into a frame (he didn't specify whether it was 60 or 120 fp@ so let's say 60) that you couldn't load use discard and re load another texture and use (use meaning render) within the same frame.

Just utter bollocks in your post.

Doubling down on mythology which contradicts what we SAW from YESTERDAY'S reveal isn't worth it.

Inventing theories on what XSX won't or can't do is equally worthless.

 

[SmoothNinja]

Ooh titanfall 2 yeah I forgot for sure that game did something similar. Didn't play Quantum Break

 

[Dnice1]

Wrong on nearly all counts. There are no texture quality levels that XSX cannot fully reproduce in frame. No level.

Second you mixed up the dirt5 dev with Bill Stilwell. Bill stillwell was being generous with saying if the PS5 SSd could really do what Sony says then MS devs can simply intro an elevator. That was tongue in cheek.

Inventing theories on what XSX won't or can't do is equally worthless.

They keep repeating that same myth about "higher assets". All that SSD data has to be rendered. It doesn't just stream off the SSD to your tv. All the data has to be processed by each system's respective cpu/gpu.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

What != How

Ironic


When we show "how" you poopoo it.

You're so dramatic dude.

 

[Leyasu]

That depends on what you mean by "loaded". If only read from drive and put into RAM, then yes. Remember that games are actually doing much more than reading data during loading screens.

yeah, what I meant was that even if the system has remembered where you left off, when you want to resume, you need to load the game in order to resume.

 

[Dodkrake]

Ah all these comments....

Ratchet & Clank looked impressive, but, let's not go overboard here... If you could control which portal you go to and when, when you were falling in that abyss that contains a bunch of portals, then it would be truly impressive.
Every time you are transported from portal to portal in quick succession, things are out of control of the player. That means it's scripted, and that means you can easily control which data needs to stream next. If you could switch between three completely different dimensions in less than one second, then I would believe it would be impossible on another device.

As of now, I don't see why the XSX or PC would be incapable of doing this.

And it's a pre-alpha so we should, you know, wait until we at least see how the final version works?

 

[Neo_game]

Game quality depends on the talent of devs, time and budget as well. We have to wait some years. But Horizon: Forbidden West looks amazing and Ratchet and Clank: Rift apart looked most impressive next gen games

 

[Spukc]

Insomniac described it as near instant.



Goes into the portal at 1:17 or 1:18 and in a whole new level at 1:20. If that's about what we can expect from load times next generation, I'll be happy.

the question is..

do you want that much visual aids in 1 minute of gameplay?

 

[VFXVeteran]

in engine cut scenes are used in graphic comparisons too, they require textures and geometry they are not full motion video, sure you can cut some things with the fixed camera and use better models here and there but they generally speaking dont differ that much from what gameplay graphic can achieve

That is simply untrue. Like in every case.

Take Nathan Drake up close capture of his face with full SSS material and then try to move up close to the in-game character with no SSS at all and several textures and detailed normal maps missing entirely.

Cutscenes will always look orders of magnitude better than the in-game gameplay assets.

 

[VFXVeteran]

anything that impressed you particularly from the showing?

None of it tbh. I don't recognize cutscenes so the actual gameplay clips that we saw were the typical graphics in games this gen.

 

[Psykodad]

Wrong on nearly all counts. There are no texture quality levels that XSX cannot fully reproduce in frame. No level.

Second you mixed up the dirt5 dev with Bill Stilwell. Bill stillwell was being generous with saying if the PS5 SSd could really do what Sony says then MS devs can simply intro an elevator. That was tongue in cheek.

The dirt five dev did say that that basically there was nothing you couldn't load into a frame (he didn't specify whether it was 60 or 120 fp@ so let's say 60) that you couldn't load use discard and re load another texture and use (use meaning render) within the same frame.

Just utter bollocks in your post.

Doubling down on mythology which contradicts what we SAW from YESTERDAY'S reveal isn't worth it.

Inventing theories on what XSX won't or can't do is equally worthless.

It was just an example, dude.
Ofcourse XSX can produce the same texture quality and whatnot.
But PS5 can load twice as much data in the same amount of time. There is nothing "mythical" about that.

It opens up lots of doors and we need to wait and see how it is going to be used by devs.

Fact is, PS5 is able to do things XSX can't.

They keep repeating that same myth about "higher assets". All that SSD data has to be rendered. It doesn't just stream off the SSD to your tv. All the data has to be processed by each system's respective cpu/gpu.

Ofcourse, but look at the visuals shown during the event yesterday.
PS5 isn't exactly XSX' retarded lil' brother.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Seeing R&C , I would say that would be impossible on HDD. So yeah, that's some secret Sauce SSD!

Nah. Those levels could be in RAM easily. It's not really complicated levels at all.

 

[xPikYx]

The thing is you guys are focusing too much on this portal level thing but really, where is the leap? where is the killzone Shadowfall effect? I was expecting a level of fidelity close to the Unreal Engine 5 demos, and that showed already the power of SSD loading, and I understand for some can be cool etc. ,but honestly, I believe we are losing the perspective of what a real generation leap means. I mean, if we needed to run old games at better resolution and faster loading times, cool just release a PS4 Ultra or something. From PS5 (or XsX) I expect to have a completely different prespective of the look of a videogame, to have a step up closer to a real movie look and without taking the Unreal Engine 5 into the account we already have fantastic photorealistic demos on Unreal Engine 4, and even then PS5 and Sony failed to deliver. I already have a PC to play console games at higher res there was non need for a new console generation for that, but really I;m even struggling to call this "generation"

 

[VFXVeteran]

Are you claiming that's true though? Using a PS5 to record game off a PC just so they can make a claim that the footage was recorded with a PS5.

That's a pretty crazy theory and seems a bit dumb to be suggesting it.

But that is what the definition is. I was told this by Sony+Microsoft employees.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Just one example of what people are saying. This particular person seems pretty confident about it

Good find; funny enough a few days ago I actually disregarded this idea due to some insightful discussion in another thread, but then hearing the Dirt 5 dev's comments made me reconsider it as an actual possibility again xD.

Got some thoughts on it and PS5's setup too, trying to organize everything and make it fair, etc.

EDIT: Okay, some quick thoughts on this. So the reason I put this idea on the back-burner is because doing some reading GPUDirect on nVidia's end and some clarification from a couple other posters, the idea of how it worked there is that the GPU would be taking data from the NAND and then putting it in its VRAM, rather than the CPU needing to take NAND data, put it in system DRAM, then have the GPU copy from DRAM to VRAM, thus cutting down on the latencies. However, that's a requirement for PCs since they aren't hUMA architectures like the consoles are. On consoles since the CPU and GPU are accessing the same RAM (albeit in turns), there's no copying of data between pools like on a PC setup.

However, I'm also aware that MS has features like executeIndirect and hardware to enforce it on XBO; there's only maybe a couple of nVidia cards that also have this hardware support. AMD GPUs might have it more standardized going forward. But anyway, the idea with executeIndirect is to let the GPU continue doing certain operations without depending on CPU instruction as much. So I'm guessing there is at least some kind of small logic coprocessor going on there (IIRC don't nVidia use FPGA cores on their GPUs for certain taskwork?).

If the GPU is customized to see NAND data as extended RAM, then as long as a game doesn't need to use that data in a way beyond the thresholds of the storage hardware's capabilities, they could technically stream in a certain amount of data per-frame to assign to available units on the GPU (via their caches), and work on that data this way instead of needing to copy it from storage to RAM and then from RAM to the caches of CUs or what-have-you. It can't be used for all types of workloads because A) NAND is too slow and too narrow-bandwidth for that and B) NAND endurance would wear quickly if writing was also enabled for this (that's why streaming-in is specifically mentioned). However, it can still find its uses as needed.

Maybe this is what the Dirt 5 developer was referring to after all? Interesting in any case, and probably worth keeping as a consideration going forward even if it turns out to not be the case.

 

[Psykodad]

The thing is you guys are focusing too much on this portal level thing but really, where is the leap? where is the killzone Shadowfall effect? I was expecting a level of fidelity close to the Unreal Engine 5 demos, and that showed already the power of SSD loading, and I understand for some can be cool etc. ,but honestly, I believe we are losing the perspective of what a real generation leap means. I mean, if we needed to run old games at better resolution and faster loading times, cool just release a PS4 Ultra or something. From PS5 (or XsX) I expect to have a completely different prespective of the look of a videogame, to have a step up closer to a real movie look and without taking the Unreal Engine 5 into the account we already have fantastic photorealistic demos on Unreal Engine 4, and even then PS5 and Sony failed to deliver. I already have a PC to play console games at higher res there was non need for a new console generation for that, but really I;m even struggling to call this "generation"

Almost everything shown was looking like CGI movies. Unless you mean something like live-action level of realism?

R&C, Stray, Little Devil Inside and Kena could pass for pica-quality animations.
Horizon also has a stylized touch to it.

I'm starting to wonder if that's what's causing people to feel unimpressed or letdown.

 

[MasterCornholio]

But that is what the definition is. I was told this by Sony+Microsoft employees.

Are you joking?

 

[KingT731]

None of it tbh. I don't recognize cutscenes so the actual gameplay clips that we saw were the typical graphics in games this gen.

Honest question...do you come around to anything that mentions PS just to be negative? I've seen you around numerous threads and it's always the same spiel.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Honest question...do you come around to anything that mentions PS just to be negative? I've seen you around numerous threads and it's always the same spiel.

Well he did say that the PS5 was used to record PC footage so they can make the claim that the games were recorded there.

I honestly think he's just kidding but I'm not sure.

 

[Psykodad]

Honest question...do you come around to anything that mentions PS just to be negative? I've seen you around numerous threads and it's always the same spiel.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's connected to that Xbox discord and he's using his credibility to boost his agenda.

That's why he's referring to his credibility all the time.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I just checked from my Sony source.

Captured means "grab the HDMI output from the PS5 to the PC video capture hw card."

I stand corrected.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Honest question...do you come around to anything that mentions PS just to be negative? I've seen you around numerous threads and it's always the same spiel.

I'm consistent with my tastes. I have a tall order of requirements for games every generation. Other than the UE5 and Hellblade2 demo, I haven't really seen anything that compares to those two. Every other game is just current gen if we are all honest with ourselves.

In answer to your question, I'm attracted to the PS threads because the fans are pretty ridiculous with their claims and they badger me consistently. I don't get that kind of vibe with the Xbox gamers. They appear more humbled and I think that's because they know their games aren't the end-all be-all.

 

[Tomeru]

In answer to your question, I'm attracted to the PS threads because the fans are pretty ridiculous with their claims and they badger me consistently. I don't get that kind of vibe with the Xbox gamers. They appear more humbled and I think that's because they know their games aren't the end-all be-all.

You are hereby found guilty, by your own admission, of being an xbot, and are sentence to continue being one for life.

Sentence is to be carried out immediately.

Guards, take him away.

 

[polybius80]

That is simply untrue. Like in every case.

Take Nathan Drake up close capture of his face with full SSS material and then try to move up close to the in-game character with no SSS at all and several textures and detailed normal maps missing entirely.

Cutscenes will always look orders of magnitude better than the in-game gameplay assets.

you are talking the model, as I said you can change player models for better ones for example last of us( PS3) or photo mode of gran turismo for replays even old games like FFX or as you say U4 in cinematic models, but not every asset in the scene is the same in fact lot of cinematics just change the camera during cinematic and start the game some games may hide the transition betwen player models but that is per game, sorry but the "orders of magnitude" is an exaggeration there may be games where that is the case but is not the same in every case for every game, cut scenes in a game like skyrim or fallout 4 for example use gameplay assets, it may be more simple than other games but they are the same principle so "Like in every case." is simply untrue

 

[VFXVeteran]

you are talking the model, as I said you can change player models for better ones for example last of us( PS3) or photo mode of gran turismo for replays or as you say U4 in cinematic models, but the scene is the same in fact lot of cinematics just change the camera an imediately start the game, sorry but the "orders of magnitude" is an exaggeration

and is not the same in every case for every game, cut scenes in a game like skyrim or fallout 4 for example use gameplay assets, it may be more simple than other games but they are the same principle

No. I'm actually talking about everything and not the model. Mainly the shaders. The shaders is what drives the cost of rendering up. It's not really the geometry itself.

 

[Neo Blaster]

Nothing Sony showed today looked like it was taking advantage of some crazy innovative never seen before SSD.

I expect every game, even the exclusives to run better on Series X hardware specs.

Are you blind? What do you think was responsible for those fast world transitions in Ratchet & Clank sequel?

 

[Dolomite]

Every cut-scene in Horizon 1 was in-engine. I am willing to bet the same goes for Horizon 2 even though we do not know that yet.

Assume for a second that my assumption is correct. Admit that would be mightily impressive in terms of texture resolution and texture amount?

Ps. really looking forward to Fable!

Agreed HZD will 100% look as good or better than the what was shown today when it launches. My question; and yes it is completely unrelated, is why can we accept these ingame- in-engine graphics as gospel but call BS when Ninja Theory confirms the Hellblade 2 trailer was running in engine?

 

[polybius80]

No. I'm actually talking about everything and not the model. Mainly the shaders. The shaders is what drives the cost of rendering up. It's not really the geometry itself.

not every game improve shaders for everything for its cinematics or even for every cinematic or everything in them, so saying "for every case" and "orders of magnitude better" are not true because not every developer do that in their games and there are plenty of games where that is not the case

you can doubt if a particular game that will realease in the future will look as good as the cinematics presented but you cannot generalize that way and say every game do that becasue it simply not true

 

[Gaz]

Ratchet really did show off what that SSD is capable of although I agree the other games not so much. But wow does Ratchet do that so well!!

 

[VFXVeteran]

not every game improve shaders for everything for its cinematics or even for every cinematic or everything in them, so saying "for every case" and "orders of magnitude better" are not true because not every developer do that in their games and there are plenty of games where that is not the case

Name a game's cutscene that uses the exact same level of fidelity as the in-gameplay action and we can dissect it on a technical level.

 

[xPikYx]

Almost everything shown was looking like CGI movies. Unless you mean something like live-action level of realism?

R&C, Stray, Little Devil Inside and Kena could pass for pica-quality animations.
Horizon also has a stylized touch to it.

I'm starting to wonder if that's what's causing people to feel unimpressed or letdown.

Look is pretty simple probably with some example you understand the difference between a generational leap and an upscaled game


this is not even done on the 5th iteration of the engine but on the well rodated 4th

now tell me which of the games shown even get close to this

this is a current gen game with ultra effects and upscaled

 

[polybius80]

Name a game's cutscene that uses the exact same level of fidelity as the in-gameplay action and we can dissect it on a technical level.

I already mentioned skyrim, here is a Uncharted 4 cutscene compared to gameplay

u4 hosted at ImgBB

Image u4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

u4-2 hosted at ImgBB

Image u4-2 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

no "orders of magnitude better" maybe in another cutscene but that means not "every cutscene"




dont want to be picky, but now we are talking about comparing "exact same level of fidelity" so now whe are talking about no difference or differences that can range from added filters to huge amount of extra shaders or double or triple amount of polygons per character, so you agree its not "orders of magnitude better" and "for every case"?

 

[Andodalf]

I already mentioned skyrim

Skyrim doesn't have any real cutscenes

 

[Psykodad]

Look is pretty simple probably with some example you understand the difference between a generational leap and an upscaled game


this is not even done on the 5th iteration of the engine but on the well rodated 4th

now tell me which of the games shown even get close to this

Proving my point:

You expected photorealistic graphics.

What if the games shown didn't have that goal?
Most were cartoony/Pixar-like and even Spiderman and Horizon have a heavily stylized touch to them.

 

[xPikYx]

Proving my point:

You expected photorealistic graphics.

What if the games shown didn't have that goal?

Gran Turismo didn't have that goal? Seriously?
NBA2k?

 

[Psykodad]

Gran Turismo didn't have that goal? Seriously?
NBA2k?

Read my edit, I said "most".

 

[xPikYx]

Read my edit, I said "most".

Ok but even in that case thay failed, it's sufficient to look at the geometry of the levels, the textures, the animations

 

[polybius80]

Skyrim doesn't have any real cutscenes

yes it do, it shows scenes where you cannot control the player or move freely, there are few and not as impressive as other games but it doesnt mean they are not "real" cutscenes, its the "not true scotsman" scenario

so a cutscene is only real when it fits your opinion an not the definition?

A cutscene or event scene (sometimes in-game cinematic or in-game movie) is a sequence in a video game that is not interactive, breaking up the gameplay. Such scenes could be used to show conversations between characters, set the mood, reward the player, introduce new gameplay elements, show the effects of a player's actions, create emotional connections, improve pacing or foreshadow future events.[2][3]

Cutscenes often feature "on the fly" rendering, using the gameplay graphics to create scripted events. Cutscenes can also be pre-rendered computer graphics streamed from a video file. Pre-made videos used in video games (either during cutscenes or during the gameplay itself) are referred to as "full motion videos" or "FMVs". Cutscenes can also appear in other forms, such as a series of images or as plain text and audio.

The cutscene in the original Pac-Man game exaggerated the effect of the Energizer power pellet power-up[1]

Cutscene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

if you make a cutscenes in a game engine you will find that you are actually moving assets with animation tools or by scripts to trigger the series of animations you need for the scene discarding player input(except maybe hideo kojima cinematics ), what you use and how you display them its up to you

 

[Psykodad]

Ok but even in that case thay failed, it's sufficient to look at the geometry of the levels, the textures, the animations

Failed at what? And who are "they"?

 

[Rob_27]

Can we have less of the "Wrong" and other I know it all comments. I'm getting a bit annoyed with it all.

Can we have a normal conversation?

 

[xPikYx]

Failed at what? And who are "they"?

failed in delivering something you are really sure it's impossible on previous consoles and I'm not talking about loading times, but about graphic fidelity. and you don't need a 4k video to spot the difference (minimal). Trust me you didn't need a 4k video to spot the difference between PS1 and PS2. Kutaragi san was really a genius

"they" are Sony

 

[bender]

the question is..

do you want that much visual aids in 1 minute of gameplay?

The broader point would be that all games should load substantially faster and that's exciting.

 

[Psykodad]

failed in delivering something you are really sure it's impossible on previous consoles and I'm not talking about loading times, but about graphic fidelity. and you don't need a 4k video to spot the difference (minimal). Trust me you didn't need a 4k video to spot the difference between PS1 and PS2. Kutaragi san was really a genius

"they" are Sony

Horizon and R&C are definitely not possible on PS4 regarding the graphical fidelity shown yesterday.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

Horizon and R&C are definitely not possible on PS4 regarding the graphical fidelity shown yesterday.

I would add Project Athia too. Deathloop wouldn't be 60fps on current gen either

hell, the assets in Little Devil Inside look pretty damn sharp to me too

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

R&C was the only game that did, are those portals gonna completely change the gameplay in a R&C game? Probably not, just looks like a dumb gimmick.

 

[Psykodad]

I would add Project Athia too. Deathloop wouldn't be 60fps on current gen either

hell, the assets in Little Devil Inside look pretty damn sharp to me too

Agreed, couldn't come up with the names that quickly. Lol

Kena too btw. That's straight-up Pixar-level.

 

[NXGamer]

Nah. Those levels could be in RAM easily. It's not really complicated levels at all.

Can you make us one in UE4 to check out please?

 

[Spukc]

The broader point would be that all games should load substantially faster and that's exciting.

You ever been annoyed by loading times current gen?

We are not talking about motorstorm on the ps3 day 1.
And devs used every trick to mask loading times anyway.

 

[bender]

You ever been annoyed by loading times current gen?

We are not talking about motorstorm on the ps3 day 1.
And devs used every trick to mask loading times anyway.

GT: Sport, TLOU : Remake, GTA V, Red Dead 2

 

[JimboJones]

You ever been annoyed by loading times current gen?

We are not talking about motorstorm on the ps3 day 1.
And devs used every trick to mask loading times anyway.

Some console versions of games had absolutely brutal load times