All The Last of Us 2 leaks/spoilers in here and nowhere else.

Explosive Zombie said:
Are you arguing that any character going for revenge should take care of all loose ends and be fine with that "collateral damage" because it's the smartest thing to do?
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In such a world, 100%. I wouldn't even say revenge is a prerequisite, survival necessitates it. If you kill someone in a group regardless of the reason, you'd best be wise to not discriminate. It's a brutal world about survival where morality is a far off consideration.

What further bothers me is Abby knows of Jackson. She knows there's a large settlement nearby filled with people and resources and she knows Joel and Tommy are from there (as they suggest helping them). It's basically instigating war by letting Ellie and Tommy go free when those at Jackson would be left none the wiser had she not, having them attribute their disappearance more than likely to the infected.
 
Aggelos said:
Nope, it's Hideo Kojima and Metal Gear Solid 2 E3 2001 trailer all over again. Kojima pulled that kind of Kamikaze stunt with the trailers, ages ago.
Same vein MGS1 -> MGS2, Last of Us Part 1 -> Last of Us Part 2


People were thinking that that they would be playing as Solid Snake in MGS2 (as so it had happened in MGS1) but Kojima concealed the new main protagonist of the game, i.e. Raiden, and tricked everybody by replacing him with Solid Snake in the trailers of the game.
And when the game came out in Fall of 2001, obviously people where angry, indignant, pissed, befuddled, bamboozled, dumbfounded and whatnot. It caused stir and heat among the Metal Gear Solid fans.


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the difference seems to be, MGS2 was both in story AND gameplay making a direct commentary on the previous game. Raiden literally slips in bird shit and it just goes insane from there. that stuff is hilarious. the rest of the game never lets up with this new direction either, which makes it work. Raiden is not as confident as Snake, he has problems with his girlfriend, he doesn't think he is up to the mission, etc. all made the more fascinating by the subversive framing.

you still see Snake, he is still the unstoppable badass you always thought he was. it's not as if Snake is made out to be a fraud. he isn't killed off. he maintains his dignity even when going through "ARSE-nal gear". Raiden also expands the lore, introducing a new take on the classic cyborg ninja that is always in MGS games.

compare it to this, where you don't really change what you are doing, you still just kill people all game long as an unstoppable badass, and two beloved characters are killed off. the whole "cycle of violence" thing rings hollow since you are, you know, doing the violence, as that is the main point of the game.

also a good time to consider that Kojima did that nearly 20 years ago. can't be really breaking the mold if you are doing a move someone else did 2 decades earlier.
 
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Explosive Zombie said:
Whatever your problems with how Joel behaves as a character (which is LOL) it doesn't fit these conclusions you're coming to at all.
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I don't have any problem with Joel, it was a pretty well defined character.

The problem is taking him out of character just for subverting expectations and advance the plot.

Explosive Zombie said:
It's weird you're using GoT as both a positive and negative example in the same post
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Because sadly is an example of the best and the worst. When they had the GRRM books to rely on, the series was simply a masterpiece.

Once the books ended and the script had to be done by D&D, then the atrocity happened. Characters stopped making sense and transformed into stupid vehicles put on motion just for advancing the plot and (trying) to subvert exprctations, exactly like Joel in TLOU2.


Explosive Zombie said:
GoT was all about making you empathize with the most despicable characters, though, especially if you read the books. The book would highlight the tragic underpinning of even
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That's because the characters of GoT are masterfully written. You can think Tywin is evil, but he is so well written you enjoy every second of him. You don't necessarily empathize with him, but you enjoy who he is, what he does and how he does it.

Explosive Zombie said:
I guess they just wanted to SUBVERT EXPECTATIONS and be as GROSS as possible, though. BTW being gross and subverting the audiences expectations ARE ALWAYS BAD THINGS and can NEVER be justified. LOL Obi-Wan and Yoda lied to Luke about his father? That's absurd, they're so honorable, goddamn bad writers just wanting to SUBVERT OUR EXPECTATIONS
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Again, you're getting too desperate and it's not a good look.
 
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PanzerAzel said:
In such a world, 100%. I wouldn't even say revenge is a prerequisite, survival necessitates it. If you kill someone in a group regardless of the reason, you'd best be wise to not discriminate. It's a brutal world about survival where morality is a far off consideration.

What further bothers me is Abby knows of Jackson. She knows there's a large settlement nearby filled with people and resources and she knows Joel and Tommy are from there (as they suggest helping them). It's basically instigating war by letting Ellie and Tommy go free when those at Jackson would be left none the wiser had she not, having them attribute their disappearance more than likely to the infected.
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She's part of the WLF, they're not afraid of some pissant town. Why should they be? That said I was speaking to her morals with my question.

Ulysses 31 said:
It's mainly been videos criticizing/praising other movies, not movies themselves and episodes of batwoman so you already seem to wrong on what they're about.
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What? Yeah, I know what people like MauLer are like, they do 6 hour long video essays on 2 hour movies full of as much illogic as they claim the movies have.

Umbral said:
And that video isn't good. I can poke holes in it and I'm not some kind of genius.
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I'd love to see you poke holes in it, maybe you'd be providing something actually worth engaging with for once.
 
PanzerAzel said:
In such a world, 100%. I wouldn't even say revenge is a prerequisite, survival necessitates it. If you kill someone in a group regardless of the reason, you'd best be wise to not discriminate. It's a brutal world about survival where morality is a far off consideration.

What further bothers me is Abby knows of Jackson. She knows there's a large settlement nearby filled with people and resources and she knows Joel and Tommy are from there (as they suggest helping them). It's basically instigating war by letting Ellie and Tommy go free when those at Jackson would be left none the wiser had she not, having them attribute their disappearance more than likely to the infected.
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Now I'm imagining them being killed and getting to play as the real MVP, Jesse.
 
Explosive Zombie said:
What? Yeah, I know what people like MauLer are like, they do 6 hour long video essays on 2 hour movies full of as much illogic as they claim the movies have.
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Yeah well, some people say a lot of dumb things and breaking that down can take a lot of time.

You believe in some silly rule that a critique video can't be longer than the video it's critiquing? :p :p :p
 
Ulysses 31 said:
Yeah well, some people say a lot of dumb things and breaking that down can take a lot of time.

You believe in some silly rule that a critique video can't be longer than the video it's critiquing? :p :p :p
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I like video essays on movies to be about what they mean, the under the surface stuff, not 6 hours of pedantically looking for logic flaws and pointing out things that are too convenient. It's the wrong way to view the art form, in my opinion.
 
Umbral said:
Because most critics aren't worthy of the title.
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i have to agree here. i think the critic industrial complex is one of the worst things to happen to culture. whole lot of uneducated and media illiterate know it alls out there.

that said i like MauLer but he definitely has a problem with self editing. 11 hour long vids and all...
 
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Explosive Zombie said:
She's part of the WLF, they're not afraid of some pissant town. Why should they be? That said I was speaking to her morals with my question.



What? Yeah, I know what people like MauLer are like, they do 6 hour long video essays on 2 hour movies full of as much illogic as they claim the movies have.



I'd love to see you poke holes in it, maybe you'd be providing something actually worth engaging with for once.
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So you've watched enough to determine that or are you going off of what you assume or heard others say?

Why make a 6 hour critique when you can slap together a sub-20 minute video with bad arguments.

I see what you are and I was right to stop speaking to you.
 
Umbral said:
So you've watched enough to determine that or are you going off of what you assume or heard others say?

Why make a 6 hour critique when you can slap together a sub-20 minute video with bad arguments.

I see what you are and I was right to stop speaking to you.
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Wait what do I need to watch more of to be sure of what I said? Am I wrong? Is the WLF not a force beyond Jackson?

Brevity is the soul of wit.

And what am I? Can you make real arguments, please? If you don't have real arguments then please DO move on from engaging with me.
 
Explosive Zombie said:
She's part of the WLF, they're not afraid of some pissant town. Why should they be? That said I was speaking to her morals with my question.
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Sure she's not afraid but why take that chance? If I could see any justifiable reason for their release I may think differently; maybe the full game will change that. Only thing I can think of would be her moral qualms, but again, I have trouble jiving morality with survival instinct in such a context.
 
Umbral said:
Having just watched the ending, I like it.

I'm surprised.
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I didn't....for fuck sake, the chemistry between Ellie and Joel is just out of this fucking world. Why do we only get 1-2hours of them and the rest is this stupid revenge cycle between Ellie and Abby. Just the thought that we could have gotten a game about Ellie and Joel instead just makes me devastated, what the fuck was Neil thinking. Holy shit, every scene that is between Ellie and Joel is so powerful just like the first game, while the rest is so god damn average in comparison.
 
ZZZZ said:
I didn't....for fuck sake, the chemistry between Ellie and Joel is just out of this fucking world. Why do we only get 1-2hours of them and the rest is this stupid revenge cycle between Ellie and Abby. Just the thought that we could have gotten a game about Ellie and Joel instead just makes me devastated, what the fuck was Neil thinking. Holy shit, every scene that is between Ellie and Joel is so powerful just like the first game, while the rest is so god damn average in comparison.
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Yes. The bond between the two of them is so strong and moving.

I am missing the cohesive entirety of the experience, so I'm sat in the middle again, liking and hating parts of what I've seen and know.

I really wish they'd talk about what PS5 means for Part 2.
 
ZZZZ said:
I didn't....for fuck sake, the chemistry between Ellie and Joel is just out of this fucking world. Why do we only get 1-2hours of them and the rest is this stupid revenge cycle between Ellie and Abby. Just the thought that we could have gotten a game about Ellie and Joel instead just makes me devastated, what the fuck was Neil thinking. Holy shit, every scene that is between Ellie and Joel is so powerful just like the first game, while the rest is so god damn average in comparison.
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true.

the father-daughter dynamic is universally relatable and way more potent then some revenge tale, even wih multiple PoVs. Most people will never experience murderous revenge hate. Still, the acting and dialog and story are probably good enough to pull players through.
 
Explosive Zombie said:
Wait what do I need to watch more of to be sure of what I said? Am I wrong? Is the WLF not a force beyond Jackson?

Brevity is the soul of wit.

And what am I? Can you make real arguments, please? If you don't have real arguments then please DO move on from engaging with me.
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I was talking about the critiques of Patrick's video.

You are in here just lashing out, that's what. You've made up your mind.
 
Umbral said:
I was talking about the critiques of Patrick's video.

You are in here just lashing out, that's what. You've made up your mind.
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I like the idea that I've made up my mind while you guys draw maps to prove your ideas on a game you haven't played pass muster. As far as the critiques of Patrick's video you'd have to link me to someone else doing it because you instead linked me to a group of dudes who are notoriously bad at critiquing things. Or just offer up your own critiques!
 
joe_zazen said:
cheers mate. Depressing AF, and overly melodramatic. + qte's ewww. Wouldn't be surprised if ellie kills herself.

on the upside, the violence looks cartoony enough not to be too disturbing. Still creepy that they use actual death videos to make this stuff.
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joe_zazen said:
true.

the father-daughter dynamic is universally relatable and way more potent then some revenge tale, even wih multiple PoVs. Most people will never experience murderous revenge hate. Still, the acting and dialog and story are probably good enough to pull players through.
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Agree 100%.
 
Saberyoko said:
So...she didn't do it because she has mercy on Abby.

She didn't do it...because she didn't wanted to be Joel. Hope it was worth all the killing and the 2 fingers lost.
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It's so weird....Ellie kills hundreds...even a pregnant woman, and in the end she grows a conscience out of nowhere.

The entire scene between Ellie and Abby is so....i don't know how to explain, i guess dramatic for shock purpose?
 
Explosive Zombie said:
I'm going to encapsulate exactly how I feel about "plot holes" using someone else's video...

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Sorry, but using the Video of one of the biggest hypocritical, Strawman arguing, narcissistic, Pseudo Elitist Wanne-be Movie "Critic"......
How in the World can you take even one minute serious of this Soyboy Prime ?
 
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ZZZZ said:
It's so weird....Ellie kills hundreds...even a pregnant woman, and in the end she grows a conscience out of nowhere.

The entire scene between Ellie and Abby is so....i don't know how to explain, i guess dramatic for shock purpose?
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This will no go well with the relationship between Ellie and the player. As a member noted here, from the reaction from Ellie during her conversation with Joel(feel like she doesn't give a damn about her life) I wouldn't be surprised if Ellie ends up comitting suicide.
 
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HotPocket69 said:
Yeah that really is fucked up.

And Joel dies within the first few hours too. Waking up to reactions Friday morning from people who havent been spoiled and been playing since midnight is going to be hilarious and awesome.
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Nobody seems to be questioning all the teaser / screenshot stuff that's out there where it's just Ellie nobody seems to be asking 'where's Joel?'

Going to be a right kick in the tits for some I agree.
 
This game's story is the worst I've ever seen. I didn't think it would get worse after Joel died but it got far worse. Game will still sell tons the first month. Hopefully word of mouth hurts sales and Sony steps in and gets Druckmann and gross out of there. Fuck all those reviewers that gave that laughable, garbage story -driven game 9's and 10's lmao. Get that forced inclusion, political, alphabet agenda bullshit all the way out of here. Taking your fans for granted and thinking your morally and intellectually superior will hopefully come back and bite them in the ass
 
TreyCinco said:
This game's story is the worst I've ever seen. I didn't think it would get worse after Joel died but it got far worse. Game will still sell tons the first month. Hopefully word of mouth hurts sales and Sony steps in and gets Druckmann and gross out of there. Fuck all those reviewers that gave that laughable, garbage story -driven game 9's and 10's lmao. Get that forced inclusion, political, alphabet agenda bullshit all the way out of here. Taking your fans for granted and thinking your morally and intellectually superior will hopefully come back and bite them in the ass
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If there is some serious big blowback, you can bet that the remastered PS5 version sales numbers won't be too hot.

I imagine there will be a vicious amount of GS trade ins of it in the coming weeks as well.
 
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Kinda hyped about the ending. I now watch the ending. Well, is bad.

ZZZZ said:
It's so weird....Ellie kills hundreds...even a pregnant woman, and in the end she grows a conscience out of nowhere.

The entire scene between Ellie and Abby is so....i don't know how to explain, i guess dramatic for shock purpose?
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Thats a good point. People need to be mega dumb for believe Ellie did end the cicle of revenge. She kill almost every person in that room, including a pregnant woman. Thats explain 'why' Abby say 'good' when Ellie reveal Dina is pregnant.
 
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ZZZZ said:
I didn't....for fuck sake, the chemistry between Ellie and Joel is just out of this fucking world. Why do we only get 1-2hours of them and the rest is this stupid revenge cycle between Ellie and Abby. Just the thought that we could have gotten a game about Ellie and Joel instead just makes me devastated, what the fuck was Neil thinking. Holy shit, every scene that is between Ellie and Joel is so powerful just like the first game, while the rest is so god damn average in comparison.
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This is what will piss so many people off Friday, thinking it's another adventure with them two looking for comic books and Ellie's bad jokes again...
 
ZZZZ said:
It's so weird....Ellie kills hundreds...even a pregnant woman, and in the end she grows a conscience out of nowhere.

The entire scene between Ellie and Abby is so....i don't know how to explain, i guess dramatic for shock purpose?
Click to expand...

But it did subvert your expectations?

It's all that matters.
 
ZZZZ said:
I didn't....for fuck sake, the chemistry between Ellie and Joel is just out of this fucking world. Why do we only get 1-2hours of them and the rest is this stupid revenge cycle between Ellie and Abby. Just the thought that we could have gotten a game about Ellie and Joel instead just makes me devastated, what the fuck was Neil thinking. Holy shit, every scene that is between Ellie and Joel is so powerful just like the first game, while the rest is so god damn average in comparison.
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This x100. Everything with Joel and Ellie in TLOU2 is great. Everything else is Call of Duty cut scene bad. 3% being good doesn't overtake the 97% bad.
 
Ixiah said:
Sorry, but using the Video of one of the biggest hypocritical, Strawman arguing, narcissistic, Pseudo Elitist Wanne-be Movie "Critic"......
How in the World can you take even one minute serious of this Soyboy Prime ?
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With strong arguments like this I'm not sure why I bothered, indeed.
 
This picture right here should really show you the current state of gaming journalism. It's utter bullshit and completely disreputable.


ruic98ahdg451.jpg
 
ZZZZ said:
It's so weird....Ellie kills hundreds...even a pregnant woman, and in the end she grows a conscience out of nowhere.

The entire scene between Ellie and Abby is so....i don't know how to explain, i guess dramatic for shock purpose?
Click to expand...

That's the most bizzare thing about the sequel's storyline. It should be another day of work for her to off Abby.
 
falcs said:
This picture right here should really show you the current state of gaming journalism. It's utter bullshit and completely disreputable.


ruic98ahdg451.jpg
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Just like the fake Joel trailer, there score is not really 10/10. The truth will be in the no embargo full spoiler reviews.
 
I love how people think reviews being 10/10 is a perfect game score. That's not how reviews work and so everyone who has a problem with TLOU2 getting these scores obviously do not understand review scores.

It's a known fact in the industry that the score is weighted to how much the reviewer enjoyed the game, a 10/10 does not mean the game is perfect, that is just how you perceive the game is rated and that is wrong!

Take Polygon's TLOU2 review for example, that review was pretty much negative and that review does not even talk about the game, you know, game design, playability, sound, graphics etc. The whole review was based on how the reviewer emotionally felt about the game. But because that review was not positive, I'm sure this review must be completely true and how everyone will feel about the game?

Reviewers scores are not there to please the studios or developers, it is purely their opinion on how much they enjoyed the game. People need to stop worrying about scores and play the game for themselves. I think there are too many insecure people here seeking validation for their own opinions and thoughts just so they can feel good about themselves.
 
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