Any game on the PC and either console will have to scale, not just graphics, but AI, physics etc...because......it's on PC. So only exclusives to the particular console would take take advantage of the "fixed" platform target...ie .. less than 5 percent of total games anyways. Besides the would have otherwise been exclusives, first party X games, could on XSX can still scale anyways very well in the hands of a semi competent developer. So I don't believe it, the Xbox 1 and 1x, will hold the XSX games back. Time will tell.
Phil Spencer feels it's counter productive to lock people away from games by making them device exclusive, prefers to scale games across ecosystem
- Thread starter Evilms
- Start date
Krappadizzle
Member
It was so unbelievably underwhelming on it's announcement. "Buy our more expensive and weaker media box that can play games." I was blown away by how badly they flubbed that momentum coming off the stellar 360.
Explosive Zombie
Banned
I'm speaking to a more generalized consensus, Dragon Age: Inquisition won most GOTY awards for the year it came out yet how many people would cite it as the GOTY for that year? Not many based on NeoGAF. The truth is the critics are wrong constantly and even they tend to acknowledge it when previously praised games get left out of best of lists. Fable 2 as GOTY is ridiculous to me, I beat that game and it was among the most generic games I've maybe ever played in nearly every design aspect. It had some neat humor to it but that only gets it so far. Outer Worlds has a huge backlash, btw.
I hope Halo Infinite is better than 4 and 5 but why bank on it?
Hellblade to me was that indie game that sneaks into GOTY contention but how many people would ACTUALLY pick it as their GOTY? Serious question.
I mean, I'm dabbling in opinion-based stuff and my own observations/experiences, I just don't expect GOTY level games out of these but I'm always happy to be proven wrong on quality games, heck I had no belief God of War 2018 would be so good based on the franchise being kinda middling to me, for instance.
Grinchy
Banned
"The idea of a next-gen console exclusive is anti-consumer....unless we let a 3rd party do it or if a couple years have passed when all the studios we bought are finally finishing theirs up. Then next-gen console exclusives are great!"Is this tweet legit?
Captain Hero
The Spoiler Soldier
Someone please zip it for him .. this guy knows nothing about gaming
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Yoboman
Member
Funny because you PC master race guys jumped on Horizon ZD preorders like a starving man on a Christmas ham
We dont care!!!
eastwood333
Banned
You're arguing over taste. I just listed you games that were considered GOTY contenders and were highly rated.
I just explained why people should be excited about Halo Infinite.
I explained why Playground is a world classs AAA 1st party studio.
I explained why The Initiative has an all star team of devs from Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, Crystal Dynamics, Insomniac, Rockstar etc.
Obsidian is a repected world class AAA studio that has a history of big hits from KOTOR 2, FO New Vega, Pillars of Eternity 1/2, The Outer Worlds
I explained why Ninja Theory is a world class studio. The team working on Hellblade 2 has doubled in size with a significant backing from MS
And they're not done. They're in talks to potentially acquire WB Games Division and we all know how big that will be if it comes to fruition.
So yes, right now Sony has the upper hand in 1st party studios. But MS has significantly improved. Xbox is superior in all other aspects.
eastwood333
Banned
You're arguing over taste. I just listed you games that were considered GOTY contenders and were highly rated.
I just explained why people should be excited about Halo Infinite. New key Lead/senior devs in charge, new engine, etc... Sony Santa Monica's last game prior to GOW was GOW Ascension.
I explained why Playground is a world classs AAA 1st party studio.
I explained why The Initiative has an all star team of devs from Naughty Dog, Sony Santa Monica, Crystal Dynamics, Insomniac, Rockstar etc.
Obsidian is a repected world class AAA studio that has a history of big hits from KOTOR 2, FO New Vega, Pillars of Eternity 1/2, The Outer Worlds
I explained why Ninja Theory is a world class studio. The team working on Hellblade 2 has doubled in size with a significant backing from MS
And they're not done. They're in talks to potentially acquire WB Games Division and we all know how big that will be if it comes to fruition.
So yes, right now Sony has the upper hand in 1st party studios. But MS has significantly improved. Xbox is superior in all other aspects.
eastwood333
Banned
Expect many more PS5 exclusives to come to PC and much sooner.
And Sea of Theives is still selling better than HZD
Explosive Zombie
Banned
If I'm arguing taste what is your argument based on? Also what does it mean to claim Xbox is superior in all other aspects?
Drunkensamurai
Member
Can someone ask Phill why I can't play this game on my Xbox One?
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
#CancelMedium
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
if you think this thread is about console exclusives, you havent been paying attention. it's about NEXT gen exclusives.
MS can feel free to make a game on the xsx and put that on PC with similar specs. But gimping an xsx game just to launch it on a xbox one is what people are taking an issue with and what Phil was talking about in his interview.
Kumomeme
Member
so..sony and nintendo is wrong? "counter what gaming is about?"
i wonder how about those netflix or hbo that want people subs their services for exclusives content..did they can be count as "counter what tv/film is about?"
this just another marketing war among both companies (sony/ms)..no need to take much serious context from this..day by day we are getting closer to launch by the way...also ofcourse he never mentioned ps5 there...people here just disagree with the statement of "..counter what gaming is about"
i wonder how about those netflix or hbo that want people subs their services for exclusives content..did they can be count as "counter what tv/film is about?"
this just another marketing war among both companies (sony/ms)..no need to take much serious context from this..day by day we are getting closer to launch by the way...also ofcourse he never mentioned ps5 there...people here just disagree with the statement of "..counter what gaming is about"
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Drunkensamurai
Member
This is all about GamePass. If you drop support for Xbox One family of systems you're going to lose a lot of subscribers. If GamePass never existed we wouldn't be talking about this.
-Arcadia-
Banned
Judging by development comments, that's exactly the case for Spider dash Man. An SSD will allow them to stream in assets orders of magnitude faster, which means faster, more fun webslinging. That's before we even get into visuals, or other detailed aspects of development.
If you like Microsoft's cross-gen approach, fine, but trying to justify it by pretending the method we've had for forty years and I-don't-know-how-many generations, is suddenly anti-consumer, that's pretty dumb.
It feels like whatever one of these execs say, on any of the sides, suddenly becomes the gospel for warriors, no matter how little sense it makes.
HawarMiran
Banned
Ummm we don't want games to be developed for a 7 year old platform if we pay 400/500 Dollars for a new console. Tech moves forward and not backwards. On PC you have to upgrade your hardware too after a few years to enjoy games that bring new stuff to the table. So if people buy a new Console that has a more powerful GPU, CPU etc they want games that are build for this specific piece of hardwarde. It is that simple. Capiche? And publishers like EA, Ubi and Co. will most likely bring crossgen titles to the market for a long time. At least for 2 years I think. So all is gucci.
Probably just like with 30fps they aren't going to dictate to 3rd party developers what they have to support.
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Dory16
Banned
How about you prove the gimping? Where is the evidence that anything has been or would be gimped? What is your scepticism based on? I'd honestly like to know why you are worried.
Drunkensamurai
Member
The same reason Killzone Shadow Fall and infamous second son wasn't available on PS3.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
my skepticism is based on the past 8 generation of games.
Drunkensamurai
Member
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
they have assembled a quality first party portfolio which is why its so much more frustrating to see him talk about supporting last gen consoles. these talented studios should be out there making next gen games built on the insane power of the xsx. not limited by the shitty power of the base xbox one.
like wtf was the point of acquiring all these studios if they were going to be making cross gen games anyway?
Maybe if Microsoft had more than 3 or 4 reliable exclusives, he might be singing a different tune. I mean there is a chance they did this perfectly and games will be great on all their consoles, scaling well. But that still could impact the overall design of a game. You could end up with down ports like the old days, loading screens galore. No one can tell me playing Mafia or Max Payne on PS2 was as good as playing on PC. Never mind the graphics, all that loading, diminished the experience.
I think the Switch is a prime example, that some games just shouldn't be ported. I expect, some game just have no business running on OG Xboxes.
I think the Switch is a prime example, that some games just shouldn't be ported. I expect, some game just have no business running on OG Xboxes.
Drunkensamurai
Member
HaveButOneLife
Banned
How dare they support next gen early
Dory16
Banned
You predictably left my question unanswered. The truth is you have neither the insight into game development nor the empirical evidence that would support your opinion.
Here is what Phil said in his interview:
" We should applaud the work that is going on with the SSD, and the work that is going on with audio, to pick some of the areas that Jim [Ryan] and Mark [Cerny] and the stuff that [PlayStation] is focused on. We should applaud load times and fidelity of scenes and framerate and input latency, and all of these things that we've focused on with the next generation. But that should not exclude people from being able to play. That's our point. How do we create an ecosystem where if you want to play an Xbox game, we're going to give you a way to go play it?"
It seems to me that he is very well acknowledging the benefit of new hardware (I suspect that's why he invested in building the most powerful one). And here is my interpretation of the cross gen stance of Microsoft:
Their gaming platform is game pass. Not any xbox console or even the PC or xcloud. It's game pass. And they don't want someone who hasn't upgraded his xbox one or is unable to, to stop paying for their game pass subscription because they feel left behind. They will give that person an extra year or 2 to upgrade while remaining a paying subscriber. That is their model. They have also created All Access so that upgrading is as financially painless as possible.
I don't know what advances gaming the most. Repeating the same things over and over again or trying something new. I don't see too many people on here saying that variable clock rates in a console go against 8 generation worth of gaming history.
Drunkensamurai
Member
WildBoy
Member
If you think Spiderman Miles Morales will only be on PS5 I don't know what to say to you... A legacy version will 100 come to PS4 in 2021. Funny how we didn't see any gameplay and it's out in 2020 on PS5... Ratchet looking hot though. And Kena! Ooouf
LordOfChaos
Member
Frankly, "held back" is a meme that gets created by people who are too caught up in device competition. […] The diversity of hardware choice in PC has not held back the highest fidelity PC games on the market. The highest fidelity PC games rival anything that anybody has ever seen in video games. So this idea that developers don't know how to build games, or game engines, or ecosystems, that work across a set of hardware... there's a proof point in PC that shows that's not the case.
But it demonstrably does. If the very baseline PC on the Steam hardware survey was a Ryzen 9 3900X, would we have so many AAA games that barely use 30% of it? Or are they playing to a moving average of an addressable market, so they have to think about things like older quad core CPUs?
Can a game that needs to keep in mind that it will have to run on Jaguar CPU cores really take the fullest advantage of much more powerful Zen 2 ones? Sure you could load it up with busy work, but maybe you would have made more performance utilizing decisions during the production path, rather than trying to hit two boards with one nail.
But it demonstrably does. If the very baseline PC on the Steam hardware survey was a Ryzen 9 3900X, would we have so many AAA games that barely use 30% of it? Or are they playing to a moving average of an addressable market, so they have to think about things like older quad core CPUs?
Can a game that needs to keep in mind that it will have to run on Jaguar CPU cores really take the fullest advantage of much more powerful Zen 2 ones? Sure you could load it up with busy work, but maybe you would have made more performance utilizing decisions during the production path, rather than trying to hit two boards with one nail.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
i answered your question just fine. anyone who has followed gaming these past few generations would and should know the jumps we get when going up a generation. you want me to spell it out for you? fine.
The CPU in the XSX is roughly 8x more powerful. This after a gen where we saw a 0x jump in cpu power. Destiny was famously left at 30 fps on current gen consoles because the lack of a meaningful jump in the CPU meant that their A.I simply took up all the CPU horsepower leaving nothing for 60 fps or destruction or whatever else they might have planned for a truly next gen version of destiny.
There wont be a Destiny 3, but they said you will get a 60 fps destiny 2. Great! But what about everything else? This 8x more powerful cpu will only get us a 2x increase in framerate. We simply cannot get better A.I, better destruction, better simulations, more NPCs, more weather effects that are governed by the more powerful CPU because the devs still have to support Destiny 2 on the base xbox one. Is 60 fps the best they can do with this 8x more powerful cpu? of course not. but thats all you will get.
you compare MGSV on the PS3 to MGS3 on PS2 and you will see how kojima went from a wide linear game to a fully open world game with even better A.I, dynamic weather systems, huge levels with A.I routines involving tanks, jeeps, and helicopters. you really think that wouldve been possible on the ps2?
lets go back one more gen. forget the graphics. just compare the A.I in MGS1 to MGS2. its a completely different ball game. and thats just the CPU. Add in GPU and RAM bandwidth in the picture, and you start getting games like Uncharted 4 and the last of us 2 which used to be corridor shooters and now feature massive wide linear levels with several open world levels. you aren't getting that in uncharted 1 to 3 or the last of us without gddr5 and the ps4 gpu. compare arkham city to arkham knight on ps4. see if you can get anthem to run on the ps3 or even the 360. And next gen is going to be an even bigger leap because instead of just the gpu and ram getting an upgrade, the cpu and ssd are getting a massive upgrade too.
lastly, you literally have the medium dev going on twitter saying the ssd makes the game completely incompatible with last gen consoles. thats coming straight from the horses mouth. what more do you want?
And that gamepass theory makes no sense because xbox series x is already backwards compatible. you could own an xsx and still have access to your entire gamepass library. no one is getting left behind. him releasing next gen games has fuck all to do with gamepass. third party devs will continue to make cross gen games. put that on the gamepass for everyone to play. its his job as the first party studio boss to get next gen games ready for his next gen hardware and he has failed at that. he waited too long to acquire studios. he spent $3 billion on minecraft in 2014 and then spent 4 years dicking around before finally starting to buy studios. by then it was too late to get anything ready for a 2020 launch. his vision was shortsighted and now he's out there on the press junket just making excuses which you guys seem to be buying.
make no mistake, making next gen games for his next gen console is his ONE job.
D
Deleted member 471617
Unconfirmed Member
Personally, I have no issues with the direction that Spencer is taking Xbox. I know what the direction is and have no problem with it. Same with Sony. I'm happy that both Sony and Microsoft have a different direction.
Looking forward to Xbox Series X day one and PlayStation 5 day one or sometime in 2021 once more exclusives get released that I actually want to play. Either way, im hyped!!!
Looking forward to Xbox Series X day one and PlayStation 5 day one or sometime in 2021 once more exclusives get released that I actually want to play. Either way, im hyped!!!
TheCrimsnFuckr
Member
When did Insomniac say that about Miles Morales? I know they mentioned that as something that was a limitation for PS4 Spider-Man, but nothing they have said has suggested that Miles Morales will be able to swing faster in his game. Visuals is relative and easily the most scalable thing for a game, so that shouldn't be much of a concern, and both Spider-Man Miles Morales and Demon's Souls both look like games that could be on the PS4.
Microsoft's cross-gen approach is pro-consumer and saying anything else is a lie though. Games take many years to develop, and if many of these games started development before things such as the SSD were finalized (which they likely were) then there is no reason that games like Halo Infinite, Everwild or any other first party game can't release on Xbox One along side Series X. It's also not even that surprising, as cross-gen games have always been a thing that have existed for the first few years of a given console, because it's not only pro-consumer but also good for the company. Saying that it's the method "weve had for forty years" is also not really applicable as this is the first time between generations where the consoles both use the same architecture and can run the same code. It wouldn't cost much extra to just port a low settings version of the same game to an older system. It's new ground and Microsoft is being pro-consumer with it while Sony (not being anti-consumer mind you) is being more traditionalist and focusing on making their new games all PS5 only when there is no real technological reason why they can't bring the games over. They are focusing on "value" with exclusives.
And honestly, I am a Playstation fanboy at heart even if the PS4 generation has kind of ruined my love for the brand, and I don't give a shit about what Phil Spencer says even if I appreciate him saying what I have been thinking. I just like playing games and enjoy talking about them too
TheCrimsnFuckr
Member
However, those are both a different story. The PS3 and PS4 had no real compatibility in code base and had substantially different hardware to the point where it would cost more money than it would be worth to bring Killzone and Infamous over to PS3.
However, the PS4 and PS5 both have the same architecture so bringing a game over (especially the two examples I laid out, which are both fundamentally based on previous gen games) should not be terribly difficult, and espescially with Spider-Man they could almost certainly just port the map over, add the story content and cutscenes with the PS4 versions of the textures and re-code any new gameplay elements.
alabtrosMyster
Member
It was bad at release, it's still bad and it will be bad forever.
Without going into details the project lacked focus. They wanted to make some ultimate media box, designed around it instead of making the best gaming machine with some media features sprinkled in for good measure. Its competition is the PS4, it still holds up to its initial promise, native 1080p gaming at 30 FPS, the xbo had issues holding 900p AND/OR 30fps even on its initial titles (Ryze ran at 900p and often dropped to the mid 20s--Killzone:SF ran at a native 1080p always above 30FPS).
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
cod was 720p. watchdogs was 720p. battlefield 4 was 720p. titanfall was 768p but with a terrible framerate. people back on gaf used to have a theory that they only upped the resolution to 768p because cboat had predicted a 720p titanfall.
Speaking of Arkham Knight. Rocksteady said one of the major reasons for changing development to next gen exclusive was RAM and the batmobile. The game could not be made on PS3 and 360 because the batmobile required almost half PS3 and 360 RAM amount and the city being significantly larger.
www.videogamer.com
Batman: Arkham Knight isn't coming to Xbox 360 or PS3, Rocksteady confirms
Cross-gen ruled out to let developer create a "real, genuine next-gen game".
www.videogamer.com
SportsFan581
Member
The amount of concern over the games you aren't interested in for the system you'll probably never own is something else.
I'll admit, I don't like the specific tone of this one, it feels two open ended. Much better to just say that you are going to continue to support the old system for a year or two (cough to keep the GP numbers stable and cough to let the studios do their work).
With that said, I'm not of the mind that the cross-gen exclusives can't show the full power of the box, in fact quite the opposite. As far as drawing a distinct line with things that can really be noticed in a YT video etc. If they optimize for One very well they can already be close to 4k on 1x, gives them a ton of power to sprinkle on top. If you do the right things, focus on the right areas, that can be the perfect example of why you'd want a next-gen console.
Look at the numbers Nintendo is doing. If you make a great game, people will still play it (even if it was only available on the One). MS just needs to focus on raising the bar quality wise. Their approach certainly isn't going to change anything for Sony or Nintendo, if those are your chosen platforms, carry on.
I'll admit, I don't like the specific tone of this one, it feels two open ended. Much better to just say that you are going to continue to support the old system for a year or two (cough to keep the GP numbers stable and cough to let the studios do their work).
With that said, I'm not of the mind that the cross-gen exclusives can't show the full power of the box, in fact quite the opposite. As far as drawing a distinct line with things that can really be noticed in a YT video etc. If they optimize for One very well they can already be close to 4k on 1x, gives them a ton of power to sprinkle on top. If you do the right things, focus on the right areas, that can be the perfect example of why you'd want a next-gen console.
Look at the numbers Nintendo is doing. If you make a great game, people will still play it (even if it was only available on the One). MS just needs to focus on raising the bar quality wise. Their approach certainly isn't going to change anything for Sony or Nintendo, if those are your chosen platforms, carry on.
Matsuchezz
Member
Phil "BS" Dispenser is trying so hard to push his agenda down people throats that is obnoxious. He and his pal Aaron Greenberg are annoying AF, his last statement is ridiculous. He will probably go crazy repeating all the nonsense he spouts. Just show the damned games already.
KonstructReborn
Member
What the HELL even is Halo Infinite! Why is it releasing on xXbox_Series_360_xXx_OneXx! What system do I even buy! Do I even have to buy a new Xbox? AHHHH!!!
PS5 - clear generational transitions.
Well that settles it.
PS5 - clear generational transitions.
Well that settles it.
Psykodad
Banned
Not gonna disagree, but I've been saying this will their last console since 2013.
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lastmessiah
Member
.FacelessSamurai
..but cry so much I wish I had some
Oh, you mean the game that barely stayed at the top for a few days and that's currently sandwiched between sea of thieves and Halo MCC, that game? Even sea of thieves has been sitting at the top for a while now and numbers put it around 400k I believe, so Horizon must be quite a lot lower than that (and people were buying it because of a sale on steam). So not really impressive when you think about it.
Try harder next time.
Yoboman
Member
Its not even out, its preorders alone putting it so high. But keep telling yourself nobody cares as it goes on to sell millions on PC
oldergamer
Member
This is a typical thread. Phil Spencer says something ( anything really) and sony fans go into a frenzy about it. He's talking about the buying of Timed third-party exclusives, for the sole purpose of preventing them from appearing on opposing consoles. He is NOT talking about first party exclusives. He is NOT talking about third parties that make a game exclusive by deciding not to add other platforms. Paying for timed third party exclusives is bad for gamers. Its a dick move.
Yet the usual people are failing to see how the same thing they complained about MS doing in the past, is what sony is doing now. Attempting to shore up a weak first party line up ( that is what this really is). I'm sure sony fans will disagree because its sony.
Yet the usual people are failing to see how the same thing they complained about MS doing in the past, is what sony is doing now. Attempting to shore up a weak first party line up ( that is what this really is). I'm sure sony fans will disagree because its sony.
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