LordOfChaos
Member
Goes into detail as to why it looks the way it does
Still vote they start with a rapping intro each time now though
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Digital Foundry - Halo Infinite Gameplay Trailer Analysis: Are The Graphics Really 'Flat'...?
- Thread starter LordOfChaos
- Start date
Goes into detail as to why it looks the way it does
Still vote they start with a rapping intro each time now though
Rikkori
Member
DF absolutely murdered 343i with this one, and it's so obvious when he lays it out. This really is just an amateur studio with way too many mediocre people.
The saddest thing is - this is a first party studio, so they knew exactly when and what the XSX would be. That this is the best they managed to achieve - absolutely pathetic.
The saddest thing is - this is a first party studio, so they knew exactly when and what the XSX would be. That this is the best they managed to achieve - absolutely pathetic.
Snake29
Banned
There are more problems then only the "lighting". Texture details didn't look hot compared to the previous demo. Only the section in the beginning of the cargo bay (indoor) looked great.
The rest is a bit of an excuse for me to say that RT should/will fix this? Why do we need RT for that?
The rest is a bit of an excuse for me to say that RT should/will fix this? Why do we need RT for that?
JLMC469
Banned
Portugeezer
Member
TL;DW: it looks bad because playing in shaded area of the map. Ray tracing something something.
killatopak
Member
noneedtobeupset.gif
unknownphysicz
Member
If it only looked like this on the right 
Qudrat Rabbi
Member
Extremely average studio. Turn 10 and playground are better than they are.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
So what about people calling Digital Foundry not biased ?
And their article is even worse to read.
And their article is even worse to read.
VFXVeteran
Banned
The game's rendering complexity is reduced to the following
Simple bump mapping
Typical screen-based GI/ambient occlusion
Basic current gen textures (probably 2k or less)
Simple sprites with transparency
1 shadow casting light
typical deferred renderer for many lights that cast no shadows.
Seems like a really old workflow
Simple bump mapping
Typical screen-based GI/ambient occlusion
Basic current gen textures (probably 2k or less)
Simple sprites with transparency
1 shadow casting light
typical deferred renderer for many lights that cast no shadows.
Seems like a really old workflow
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Freeman
Banned
Alex? Really?? DF are really discrediting themselves with this guy.
Are we suppose to believe the devs chose the worst possible conditions to display their game to everyone?
MS figured out that since people can't make their own minds it's cheaper to pay DF than to actually invest in making good looking games.
Are we suppose to believe the devs chose the worst possible conditions to display their game to everyone?
MS figured out that since people can't make their own minds it's cheaper to pay DF than to actually invest in making good looking games.
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Andodalf
Banned
Maybe watch the video? He goes into detail about the technical reasons for why the game looks last gen in many ways, namely using last gen tech. DF isn't being paid at all. They heaped far more praise on Sony, as one would probably expect. Get over yourself kid
jose4gg
Member
If it only looked like this on the right
Even if it looked like the right photoshopped version, there isn't anything special on it, it does not have something that tells us next-gen, this is obvious, the engine is not next-gen ready...
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Freeman
Banned
You clearly don't know the guy, it's so obvious what he is doing.
Getting cozy with MS and then treating them with kids glove... it's easy to guess what happened.
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LordOfChaos
Member
Just finished watching it and that wasn't my take at all, did you watch the whole thing? He said techniques that keep things consistent are missing and that's where they fall flat in shadow in particular, going into detail on albedo and gloss maps etc. He's very much saying this is an issue they have, not making excuses based on the time of day.
Yeah, and that's quite odd isn't it. Allegedly they were happy to get off the old Bungie Halo engine which they said was holding them back, but this also seems old in ways, despite being a purportedly next gen engine.
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Freeman
Banned
Where they fall flat is releasing a game that looks like this on a 12TF machine. This same dude was shitting on Sony for releasing games that are 30fps on current gen, now he is all willing to understand the reasons why it looks bad and coming up with excuses.
It's DF we are talking about, they use a x8 zoom to complain about tiny details in resolution, etc. I don't need to zoom in to see this game looks inexcusably bad, this is MS's flagship game to show what the XBox SX is about.
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alot better but would still need more post processing and better modelsIf it only looked like this on the right
Freeman
Banned
I actually agree with that, I think native 4K is stupid. Richard from DF already made a video about that.
Freeman
Banned
Now that you are saying it. I think that a lot of games that rely on RT GI like Metro look like complete garbage without it, worse than any normal game should. Since they have RT GI they just don't bother with making it look good without it.
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Andodalf
Banned
DF has been saying that true 4K is unnecessary for a while now, they were some of the first to breakdown and praise check boarding, especially with Horizon, And have since praised DLSS, especially starting with the 1.9 version control had, and then even more with 2.0. And really ever since we've seen high quality TAA they've said non native resolutions are fine. This is not new at all for then if you've watched since 2017 or so.
GrayFoxPL
Member
Yeah me too, but that coming from guys complaining about games in sub 4k or even 2k resolutions just sounds funny.
Alx
Member
That's actually explained in the video : with simple dynamic lighting in shadowed areas, many texture and model details are lost. There is also the thing about artistic design and the choice of "materials" for the armors, but mostly the lighting makes or breaks details in rendering.
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TheCrimsnFuckr
Member
This is a great analysis of the demo and honestly all it does is make me feel bad for 343. The game's development has really been ruptured by the pandemic and all the shit happening in Seattle meaning that a lot of things such as lighting (no RT in the demo or at launch) is not up to where it should be. The core gameplay looks awesome and the textures are also very high quality (even if some of the art style changes are not sitting well with people) but it sucks that the lighting and LODs are not where they should be yet because of things outside of the control of the studio (and yes, some of it is definitely mismanagement on 343's part, but not all of it).
Personally I think the game looks great in motion and looks fun as all hell, so better lighting or not I know I'll enjoy the game
Personally I think the game looks great in motion and looks fun as all hell, so better lighting or not I know I'll enjoy the game
DonF
Member
Oh fuck right off, Alex.
He said that the Gran Turismo 7 ray tracing looked subpar .... When viewed magnified 800%, yet "we think" Halo looks bad cause of lightning?? And this is getting fixed with the promised after launch (not ready for showtime, btw) ray tracing patch?
I always found him to be a little biassed towards Xbox, but in a good way, it was a good thing cause the Xbox one x is currently the most powerful machine, but this is just on another level.
DF doesn't have to excuse 343's work.
He said that the Gran Turismo 7 ray tracing looked subpar .... When viewed magnified 800%, yet "we think" Halo looks bad cause of lightning?? And this is getting fixed with the promised after launch (not ready for showtime, btw) ray tracing patch?
I always found him to be a little biassed towards Xbox, but in a good way, it was a good thing cause the Xbox one x is currently the most powerful machine, but this is just on another level.
DF doesn't have to excuse 343's work.
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Entroyp
Member
I have a feeling resolution will matter a lot whenever they're not talking about Xbox.
Astral Dog
Member
I think they look a little flat next to Sony's first party reveals
Saaleh
Banned
As expected, alex didn't do a deep comparison to the halo 2018 in-engine trailer. Didn't do comparison to previous halos.
To me DF is just like geoff keighley, I can see why they shouldn't tea bag a disaster from big companies like sony, nintindo and ms but alex shouldn't be giving excuses like that. He is implying that lighting is the main issue and if it is fixed most of it will be fine. He really don't have to do that. If he is not giving a fully detailed fair analysis than just staying silent is better for their image.
Alex needs to learn from the other 2 friends he have there with him. Just stay silent if you can't be fully honest.
To me DF is just like geoff keighley, I can see why they shouldn't tea bag a disaster from big companies like sony, nintindo and ms but alex shouldn't be giving excuses like that. He is implying that lighting is the main issue and if it is fixed most of it will be fine. He really don't have to do that. If he is not giving a fully detailed fair analysis than just staying silent is better for their image.
Alex needs to learn from the other 2 friends he have there with him. Just stay silent if you can't be fully honest.
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Reindeer
Member
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intbal
Member
That's not what I heard in this video.
It sounded to me like he was criticizing the choices they made for the visuals.
Entroyp
Member
And outdated gameplay maybe?
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GrayFoxPL
Member
Andodalf
Banned
He continually points out how the game uses a variety y of last gen techniques that hold it back, showing a lack of ability to scale, and people say that's an excuse. If anything he gives a pretty scathing take on how their engine is built, showing it to be worse and less scalable than what we've seen in games like Metro in the past
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Musky_Cheese
Banned
DF did a great job breaking this down. Not that they don't usually do a good job.
If you are a fanboy tho, don't watch the end where he believes this is an issue because cross gen.
If you are a fanboy tho, don't watch the end where he believes this is an issue because cross gen.
Astral Dog
Member
If the end result looks like that i don't care what fancy lightning techniques 343 used it still looks lame
Andodalf
Banned
What? Dude just watch the video before the drive by shitpost.
eastwood333
Banned
Very good analysis by Alex as always. Lighting is probably the biggest factor in determining a games graphics. It can make or break a game. I agree that 343 should lower resolution, go for DLSS/checkerboarding etc to make room for as much Ray Tracing as possible.
There's still time to improve things like flat textures on characters, armor,explosion effects etc. If not by launch, then later via a patch along with the ray tracing patch. Apparently its going to be getting the MCC treatment and being improved on, expanded on for years to come. I something like a Destiny model.
Alex is simply pointing out what he'd do to improve the look of the game and giving advice. I am still very hopeful for the game and the more i watch the new gameplay trailer and footage, the more i'm excited about the gameplay. I think the gameplay looks great overall.
There's still time to improve things like flat textures on characters, armor,explosion effects etc. If not by launch, then later via a patch along with the ray tracing patch. Apparently its going to be getting the MCC treatment and being improved on, expanded on for years to come. I something like a Destiny model.
Alex is simply pointing out what he'd do to improve the look of the game and giving advice. I am still very hopeful for the game and the more i watch the new gameplay trailer and footage, the more i'm excited about the gameplay. I think the gameplay looks great overall.
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eastwood333
Banned
The drive by shit posting is getting out of hand. I understand there are legit Halo fans disappointed with the footage, but most of this concern trolling is coming from the typical sony fans who were never going to buy an Xbox in the first place and should be called out.
People with common sense realize that some of these sony fans come in every Xbox related thread with one goal in mind....shit on Xbox.
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I think blaming only the lighting or being cross-gen for the disappointing look of the demo is very euphemistic, but I expected as much from Alex. Besides being 4k60, the demo had nothing going for it technically: It has simple low resolution shadow maps, horrendous texture/LOD pop in, low resolution environment and vegetation details, no soft particles, no raytraced reflection, low resolution looking textures/texture effects, very low number of dynamic lights and you could go on and on.
From a technical point of view I find the demo simply disappointing in its entirety for a game coming to a next generation system. I find it especially disappointing since this is a high budget game and is supposed to be Microsoft's poster child for the most powerful console ever.
From a technical point of view I find the demo simply disappointing in its entirety for a game coming to a next generation system. I find it especially disappointing since this is a high budget game and is supposed to be Microsoft's poster child for the most powerful console ever.
Psykodad
Banned
Kind of what happens when xbox fans have been drive-by posting how Halo would destroy anything on PS5 for months.
