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[psorcerer]

Performance of various compressors on Oodle Texture RDO data

Oodle Texture RDO can be used with any lossless back-end compressor. RDO does not itself make data smaller, it makes the data more compres...

cbloomrants.blogspot.com

TL;DR

Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)

Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)

 

[azertydu91]

Nice to know that the 20GB/s wasn't just bullshit and that those numbers have been obtained and even surpassed.

 

[psorcerer]

Nice to know that the 20GB/s wasn't just bullshit and that those numbers have been obtained and even surpassed.

It's projected. It's not a real hw benchmark.
I don't doubt 22GB/sec. But real world dataset that can be compressed to 4x is what's nice here.

 

[GreyHand23]

This is just for textures, but quite a nice boost! Plus Sony bought a license for all developers, 3rd party included so there's no reason for them not to use this.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Wow

 

[azertydu91]

It's projected. It's not a real hw benchmark.
I don't doubt 22GB/sec. But real world dataset that can be compressed to 4x is what's nice here.

Oh thanks I missed it.

 

[Tschumi]

Hmmm! Juice! Commenters seem to be sated! Yokattaaaaa

 

[Knitted Knight]

Looking good. We'll see soon enough how much the Decima engine is taking advantage of that. We have to wait a longggg time to see Naughty Dog's engine making use of it.

 

[GreyHand23]

It would be cool to know if any of the PS5 games that were shown at the showcase were using Oodle Texture yet? It didn't officially release until a couple weeks after that, plus it had a substantial bug that was fixed about a week ago. If they weren't using it, this could really take the SSD performance to another level.

 

[hyperbertha]

Looks like that kraken is good for something after all. Still ps5 would have been way smaller without it.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Lord knows i want to know if this is good or not but im looking at heiroglyphs.

Anyone able to break it down in layman's terms for a caveman like me?

 

[Panajev2001a]

It would be cool to know if any of the PS5 games that were shown at the showcase were using Oodle Texture yet? It didn't officially release until a couple weeks after that, plus it had a substantial bug that was fixed about a week ago. If they weren't using it, this could really take the SSD performance to another level.

One of the Oodle guys was quite sure that the famous UE5 demo was not using Oodle Texture yet.

 

[Hobbygaming]

When games start fully utilizing Kraken decompression and the geometry engine

 

[mejin]

Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)

Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)

 

[SilentUser]

Lord knows i want to know if this is good or not but im looking at heiroglyphs.

Anyone able to break it down in layman's terms for a caveman like me?

Same could anyone here be kind and shed us some light here?

 

[Trogdor1123]

Sooooo, Skyrim then?

 

[Entroyp]

Time to update those magic multipliers.

 

[Rossco EZ]

 

[jimbojim]

Performance of various compressors on Oodle Texture RDO data

Oodle Texture RDO can be used with any lossless back-end compressor. RDO does not itself make data smaller, it makes the data more compres...

cbloomrants.blogspot.com

TL;DR

Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)

Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)

Stop spreading FUD!

Spoiler

 

[Tripolygon]

Next gen is going to be very interesting. I can't wait to see how devs push these systems to their absolute limit.

 

[Entroyp]

It doesn't hold a candle to VA:

Dataset1: ( 2.4 raw * 2.5 BCP = 6 GB/s)

Direct X "Craig" magic multiplier1 = 6 * 2.5 = 15 GB/s

15 * 12 Teraflops = 180 GB/s

180 * 25 Teraflops (raytracing) = 4500 GB/s

Ha!

 

[Roxkis_ii]

Performance of various compressors on Oodle Texture RDO data

Oodle Texture RDO can be used with any lossless back-end compressor. RDO does not itself make data smaller, it makes the data more compres...

cbloomrants.blogspot.com

TL;DR

Dataset 1 (Texture data BC1,3,4,5, and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc.)
Kraken ratio: 1.76:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.76 = 9.68GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.13:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 3.13 = 17.2GB/sec)

Dataset 2 (Texture data BC6 and 7. Mix of diffuse, normals, etc. Very much what MSFT expects of BCpack data)
Kraken ratio: 1.78:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.85 = 10.1GB/sec)
Kraken + RDO ratio: 3.99:1 (PS5 perf will be: 5.5GB/sec * 1.99 = 21.9GB/sec)

Someone help me, I'm dumb.

 

[TheTechnician]

Next gen is going to be very interesting. I can't wait to see how devs push these systems to their absolute limit.

Yeah - Sonys Next Gen. Xbox Folks will play inflated Xbox One Games...
why this actually is happening i laid out here :

it is the Year 2035 and Sony invited us for the first time to their Secret Facillity in the Swiss Alps

So here we are just back from our Trip to the Swiss Alps where Sony showed us the Secret how they won those Console Generations in the Past. It was quite exciting to learn how much effort they put into making shure that they end up winning those Console Wars. So this is the Facillity - it was...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Please kind sir, care to explain what is amazing about all this?

I feel like i'm getting hyped but i don't know what for.

 

[truth411]

Honestly, this is probably the greatest Performance difference between the XSX and the PS5. But I think only PS5 exclusives can really take advantage of it.

 

[Codeblew]

Honestly, this is probably the greatest Performance difference between the XSX and the PS5. But I think only PS5 exclusives can really take advantage of it.

Not really, they just need to store their assets in the right format. This is trivial to do with a modern build system.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Have Sony clarified what data "compresses particularly well" enough to actually utilize the (essentially) 4:1 compression ratio yielding the 22 GB/s figure? I know it would be lossy data regardless, but that still leaves a wide range.

I know video files would be able to handle that type of compression rate very well without any significant quality loss, for example.

 

[truth411]

Have Sony clarified what data "compresses particularly well" enough to actually utilize the (essentially) 4:1 compression ratio yielding the 22 GB/s figure? I know it would be lossy data regardless, but that still leaves a wide range.

I know video files would be able to handle that type of compression rate very well without any significant quality loss, for example.

If my understanding is correct. Textures?

 

[shenmue mugen]

But doesn't the PS5's SSD transfer at a naximum of 9gb/s? Now it's 22 gb/s?

 

[polybius80]

But doesn't the PS5's SSD transfer at a naximum of 9gb/s? Now it's 22 gb/s?

the maximum speed the SSD is as you say, but with this compression 22 gb/s is the amount of data you can get in a second in total

 

[Entroyp]

But doesn't the PS5's SSD transfer at a naximum of 9gb/s? Now it's 22 gb/s?

As stated by Cerny the Kraken decompressor can do 22 GB/s max.. but I'm not sure if all the components in the I/O subsystem can reach that number.

 

[yurinka]

Cerny said it would vary for game at it would be a typical average of ~8-9GB/s, and a ~22GB/s for particularly well compressed data. Seems he wasn't lying.

But doesn't the PS5's SSD transfer at a naximum of 9gb/s? Now it's 22 gb/s?

The SSD own speed is 5.5GB/s. The thing is that data is compressed, and the PS5 has a chip to decompress that data at that speed, in addition to an enhaced I/O system to speed up memory management.

So even if the SSD raw speed is 5.5GB/s, the amount of SSD copied to the RAM is way more. This amount of data obviously will be more or less depending of how well that data is compressed with their compression algorythm, Kraken. It's like in your PC when compressing with ZIP or RAR: some files compress more than other ones.

According to Cerny's talk, as a result of that in average real world cases ~8-9GB of SSD data can be copied in a second to the RAM, and up to 22GB for particularly well compressed files in very rare cases. What is shown in the OP proves these numbers mentioned by Cerny are legit.

 

[polybius80]

If my understanding is correct. Textures?

there is also Oodle data wich compreses geometry

 

[banjo5150]

This speed is crazy, I rewatched Road to PS5 today, Cerny is a genius. Does anyone know does he actually work for Sony or is he independent? Sony must pay this guy an obscene amount of money.

 

[Entroyp]

This speed is crazy, I rewatched Road to PS5 today, Cerny is a genius. Does anyone know does he actually work for Sony or is he independent? Sony must pay this guy an obscene amount of money.

I believe he owns a company and acts as a consultant?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Stop spreading FUD!

Spoiler

Thanks for the thread OP. Pretty excited to see more implementations of Sonys I/O system.

 

[Apollo Helios]

I don't think first batch of games in general are going to push the upper bound figures reported here all that much, at least not right away. But 1-2 years down the line it could be a generic thing in all their first party studios as standard, then I can't even imagine what the game worlds will be filled with. However they can finally push everything to the limits with desktop class Zen CPUs at least. Just for that reasons alone I'm happy, we will finally have games completely bursting with life.

 

[Max_Po]

IF anyone else is like me and does not understand the math and Numbers...


Stay calm,

Spoiler

Take Everything and Multiply by 0.

so 15 Gegebit-Flops on PS5 x 0 = 0

0 is a real number

+1 if you are getting a PS5

WINRAR = Me and You because we are getting a PS5

 

[yurinka]

This speed is crazy, I rewatched Road to PS5 today, Cerny is a genius. Does anyone know does he actually work for Sony or is he independent? Sony must pay this guy an obscene amount of money.

He has his own company, from where he helps Sony as hardware architect for their consoles, and also helps their game devs as consultor. Yes, he's a genious.

 

[Max_Po]

He has his own company, from where he helps Sony and their devs. Yes, he's a genious.

Mark Cerny is an asset to the industry. The guy coded Marble Madness when he was like 17. Learnt full Japanese. Communicates in Japanese. He is an hero/idol... next to Satoru Iwata (RIP).

 

[Tripolygon]

Where I see major benefit is game size on SSD. I believe that is why Sony went through the effort of implementing a very powerful decompression hardware and buying license for all developers to use on PS5. I still believe game size won't get much bigger than this gen.

 

[trikster40]

I'm guessing this is good news?

 

[Apollo Helios]

Where I see major benefit is game size on SSD. I believe that is why Sony went through the effort of implementing a very powerful decompression hardware and buying license for all developers to use on PS5. I still believe game size won't get much bigger than this gen.

Ah that's right I haven't even thought of game size on storage, if there's better compression ratio even at those speeds then we can see smaller files on PS5 than Series X.

 

[yurinka]

Mark Cerny is an asset to the industry. The guy coded Marble Madness when he was like 17. Learnt full Japanese. Communicates in Japanese. He is an hero/idol... next to Satoru Iwata (RIP).

Yeah. But these two are below the maximum genious of the industry, Yu Suzuki. He pioneered and mastered many genres and technical innovations in a ton of classics.

 

[Tripolygon]

Have Sony clarified what data "compresses particularly well" enough to actually utilize the (essentially) 4:1 compression ratio yielding the 22 GB/s figure? I know it would be lossy data regardless, but that still leaves a wide range.

I know video files would be able to handle that type of compression rate very well without any significant quality loss, for example.

I have talked about this before but i guess it is worth talking about it again in light of RAD Games Tool sharing more about their library performance.

That's where the 22GB/s capability of the compression block comes in. Sony did not put it there just for giggles. And like i've been saying it is not for 'rare' occasions like some people have been trying to say. Mark Cerny said "if the data compresses really well".

For those who don't know, PSARC is Sony's archive format used to package game data. Currently based on ZLIB for PS4 but it is going to be using Kraken for PS5 i imagine.

And Sony has a habit of using Insomniac Games to test things. On PS5 they used Spiderman

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

You would think they'd realize this by now but we live in a world where rationale thinking looks different depending on the person 🤦‍♂️ I don't know why the standard of astroturfing isn't going up. You'd think that with a big war chest, they can afford it ;)

www.neogaf.com

 

[Entroyp]

Yeah. But these two are below the maximum genious of the industry, Yu Suzuki. He pioneered and mastered many genres and technical innovations in a ton of classics.

well yea, Yu Suzuki even learned Japanese at younger age than Cerny.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

It would be cool to know if any of the PS5 games that were shown at the showcase were using Oodle Texture yet? It didn't officially release until a couple weeks after that, plus it had a substantial bug that was fixed about a week ago. If they weren't using it, this could really take the SSD performance to another level.

I honestly would doubt if any game, especially around launch, on either the PS5 or Series X really utilized the full potential of the next gen consoles. Just not enough time with the final hardware and not enough time to port over their work properly.

 

[Thief1987]

Honestly, this is probably the greatest Performance difference between the XSX and the PS5. But I think only PS5 exclusives can really take advantage of it.

Why? It's just texture compression and it would be integrated in SDK. It's trivial task for devs just like texture swizzling they used before.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Have Sony clarified what data "compresses particularly well" enough to actually utilize the (essentially) 4:1 compression ratio yielding the 22 GB/s figure? I know it would be lossy data regardless, but that still leaves a wide range.

I know video files would be able to handle that type of compression rate very well without any significant quality loss, for example.

The article in question, by the Oodle Texture makers, takes about compressed GPU native textures pre-processed by Oodle Texture (without BC7Prep which requires GPU shader decompression but compressed at an even higher ratio). Not sure what you mean here?!

 

[Kagey K]

So no real world examples yet?

Just running numbers like teraflops?

When you try to disprove math with math, everybody wins.