Support NeoGAF

[FunkMiller]

From a business perspective, there is nothing to laugh about XSS is a great deal, for a lot of people, your second video talks about if it can run next-gen games, yea, of course, it can...

Can it last 7 years (a generation) Without making the life of developers a nightmare? that's why developers are telling, they have always been limited with these types of scenarios, and no one likes them...

It's utterly disingenuous to claim that Series S won't hold games development back even though it's far less powerful, while at the same bleating on about how much more power the Series X has over Ps5.

So come on, Xbox fans... which is it?

Does a weaker console means games will run worse or not?

Can't have it both ways.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

What I find fascinating is someone just pages back tried to make a case for COD MW on Xbox One X was a huge difference from PS4 Pro. Without any sense of irony, making the case for the opposite when the difference is significantly more than just 10.28TF vs 4TF. There's a lot more difference than just TF as Xbox One X and PS4 Pro shows. There is Bandwidth difference, pixel fill rate, culling, rasterization, cache, Ray triangle intersection rate, etc.

xbox x and ps4pro supposedly had the same target.
I think it is very clear that series s has a very different target than either series x or ps5.
it will play the same games but at half or a quarter of the resolution that both series x and ps5 target.

and I only talked about COD and DOOM because some crazy talk was written right here about how "ps4pro had the better versions" of those games.

 

[MarkMe2525]

But you won't see just those two. Especially during cross-gen time. You'll see PS4, PS4 Pro, PS5, PS5 DE, XBS, XBS DE, XBX, XSS, XSX

See my previous post history for more of my take on the subject matter, but if we look at naming conventions when we're talking about pcs, televisions, cars, cell phones, Bluetooth headphone, audio equipment, etc.. you will see that this concern is overly stated and not an issue in any other industry. We don't see Bose Bluetooth headphone 6 or, Samsung TV 7, Alienware 11. People that are interested in purchasing these consoles aren't going to have an issue. We are also dismissing the ability for someone to pull out their phone and ask Siri or Google.

 

[Aceofspades]

Are people actually saying the difference between the XsS and PS5 is small?

Only the delusional bunch!

 

[Zoro7]

I haven't really heard anything negative about the PS5. A shortage doesn't mean anything negative. With Covid it raises some roadblocks. Long term shouldn't be an issue.

As for your Xbox comment I just reported in the last week or so. Devs have said that Velocity Architecture was taking a moment for them to master. Many layers like and onion. That also there has been issues with dev API on PCs emulating some Of some of the features Xbox Series X/S has baked into the APU. Leading to why you haven't seen a lot of games running on Xbox Series X or why that haven't ran while in demos on PC emulating Xbox Series X. For example Halo Infinite.

Once again. For the record. I don't get into Fanboy wars or console warrior mentality. I just share what I'm told second hand. As you can see I own all consoles and game on all consoles and PC. Because I'm a gamer. I love to play games!

"I'm not racist I have black friends."

 

[Hendrick's]

Some of you are shook with the Series S reveal.

 

[kyliethicc]

Yes PS5 is rumored to be shortage for worldwide launch. So if you want a PS5 at launch make sure you Pre Order.

Rumored according to you.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

Some of you are shook with the Series S reveal.

Who? Me?

 

[Dabaus]

For the first time since February the xbox got a crumb of good news (Series S price) and like clockwork we're getting more "inside" leaks about ps5 shortages and 599 pricepoints. Its just so transparent anymore guys. Im surprised they havent gone back to the "over heats" fake rumor again. Whatever happened to that colbert guy and his fake poems?

 

[geordiemp]

Rumored according to you.

Timdog

 

[quest]

Rumored according to you.

Common sense lol of course there will be a shortage just like the ps4. A non insider could even predict it with 100% certainty.

 

[WhispersintheWind]

Rumored according to you.

Don't you think it's odd that Sony is handling pre orders first for PS5? That they had to announce around a month ago that they was upping production? But sure we go with it's all just me spreading a rumor..why not it's 2020 you know! /S

 

[FunkMiller]

This entire generation is going to be a battle between nerfed third party games made to play across all consoles, and first party Ps5 games pushing the hardware for all its worth. The likes of COD and Ass Creed clearly aren't going to push the next gen forward. I just hope Sony have enough big games coming.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Don't you think it's odd that Sony is handling pre orders first for PS5? That they had to announce around a month ago that they was upping production? But sure we go with it's all just me spreading a rumor..why not it's 2020 you know! /S

How do you even know they are handling them "first"?

Sony is using a system where they use your PSN login to grant you a pre-order opportunity. So they asked for people to sign up to gauge interest and make their selections.

Other retailers won't have that option (the PSN thing) but are gonna get pre-orders.

It's likely all pre-orders go live the same day, including Sonys. Retailers have already confirmed they'll be getting pre-orders.

Sony wants to help their biggest fans get a unit without having to deal with degenerate human garbage scalpers.

 

[ethomaz]

For the first time since February the xbox got a crumb of good news (Series S price) and like clockwork we're getting more "inside" leaks about ps5 shortages and 599 pricepoints. Its just so transparent anymore guys. Im surprised they havent gone back to the "over heats" fake rumor again. Whatever happened to that colbert guy and his fake poems?

Did you not get the memo? Series S is stronger than PS5.
There is no way to Sony fight the FUD war.

 

[geordiemp]

I haven't really heard anything negative about the PS5. A shortage doesn't mean anything negative. With Covid it raises some roadblocks. Long term shouldn't be an issue.

As for your Xbox comment I just reported in the last week or so. Devs have said that Velocity Architecture was taking a moment for them to master. Many layers like and onion. That also there has been issues with dev API on PCs emulating some Of some of the features Xbox Series X/S has baked into the APU. Leading to why you haven't seen a lot of games running on Xbox Series X or why that haven't ran while in demos on PC emulating Xbox Series X. For example Halo Infinite.

Once again. For the record. I don't get into Fanboy wars or console warrior mentality. I just share what I'm told second hand. As you can see I own all consoles and game on all consoles and PC. Because I'm a gamer. I love to play games!

I dont tend to believe insiders, most of what you said is just logical based on no XSX showing and dev kit issue which was posted on b3d about Gamecore patch notes.

And PC direct storage is not until preview 2021.....so yeah....

 

[quest]

This entire generation is going to be a battle between nerfed third party games made to play across all consoles, and first party Ps5 games pushing the hardware for all its worth. The likes of COD and Ass Creed clearly aren't going to push the next gen forward.

Sure they will just not in the direction you want. Don't get mad about it.

 

[ethomaz]

Don't you think it's odd that Sony is handling pre orders first for PS5? That they had to announce around a month ago that they was upping production? But sure we go with it's all just me spreading a rumor..why not it's 2020 you know! /S

Sony didn't handle pre-orders yet.

 

[mejin]

Hahaha we really lack a moderation to fact check BS.

 

[SportsFan581]

It's utterly disingenuous to claim that Series S won't hold games development back even though it's far less powerful, while at the same bleating on about how much more power the Series X has over Ps5.

So come on, Xbox fans... which is it?

Does a weaker console means games will run worse or not?

Can't have it both ways.

I don't see what the issue is. MS clearly views Xbox as being very close to the PC ecosystem, basically a nice little gaming PC sold at cost. Low-end and High-end cards have coexisted forever on the PC platform and will continue to do so. Xbox has nothing to do with PS, MS could have decided to be more Nintendo and just launch the XSS if they wanted to. LOL

If they don't sell enough or development for the series line is too difficult they will lose third-party support. If sales are decent, devs will get software on the platform regardless of the work required (see Doom on Switch, etc.)

 

[FunkMiller]

How do you even know they are handling them "first"?

Sony is using a system where they use your PSN login to grant you a pre-order opportunity. So they asked for people to sign up to gauge interest and make their selections.

Other retailers won't have that option (the PSN thing) but are gonna get pre-orders.

It's likely all pre-orders go live the same day, including Sonys. Retailers have already confirmed they'll be getting pre-orders.

It's like people are living in a world where Amazon haven't already taken the lion's share of available units.

Because they have, you know.

 

[Tripolygon]

xbox x and ps4pro supposedly had the same target.
I think it is very clear that series s has a very different target than either series x or ps5.
it will play the same games but at half or a quarter of the resolution that both series x and ps5 target.

Yes a console significantly less powerful than PS5 and Series X will play the same game at significantly cut resolution as well as geometry and texture quality, lighting quality with reduced raytracing hardware as well as other things like shadow quality, AA, AF, AO.

If a game uses any form of machine learning inference, it would perform significantly worse as well. INT8/4 utilization is at the expense of FP32 performance.

I thought I was off to your ignore list?

 

[WhispersintheWind]

Sony didn't handle pre-orders yet.

The rumor being Sony is handling the first round of Pre Orders and those being promised to be filled first. As other Pre Orders will be filled after Sony's Pre Orders.

Edit

I'm off to Play Marvel Avengers. I will check on the thread every once in a while.

 

[FunkMiller]

I don't see what the issue is. MS clearly views Xbox as being very close to the PC ecosystem, basically a nice little gaming PC sold at cost. Low-end and High-end cards have coexisted forever on the PC platform and will continue to do so. Xbox has nothing to do with PS, MS could have decided to be more Nintendo and just launch the XSS if they wanted to. LOL

If they don't sell enough or development for the series line is too difficult they will lose third-party support. If sales are decent, devs will get software on the platform regardless of the work required (see Doom on Switch, etc.)

Well okay, but that doesn't really answer my question, so

 

[Faithless83]

I haven't really heard anything negative about the PS5. A shortage doesn't mean anything negative. With Covid it raises some roadblocks. Long term shouldn't be an issue.

As for your Xbox comment I just reported in the last week or so. Devs have said that Velocity Architecture was taking a moment for them to master. Many layers like and onion. That also there has been issues with dev API on PCs emulating some Of some of the features Xbox Series X/S has baked into the APU. Leading to why you haven't seen a lot of games running on Xbox Series X or why that haven't ran while in demos on PC emulating Xbox Series X. For example Halo Infinite.

Once again. For the record. I don't get into Fanboy wars or console warrior mentality. I just share what I'm told second hand. As you can see I own all consoles and game on all consoles and PC. Because I'm a gamer. I love to play games!

I usually don't go for the trouble to calling anyone out, as it's none of my business, but since you always repeat the "I have all" free pass card... we all know you are very clearly leaning towards a direction.
Everyone that see's your reaction and your posts know that. Maybe you should take a look yourself and find out too.

I'm a collector, I'll eventually buy an XSX and I have a preference. This "I have all of them" is usually BS and everyone knows it.

Same as Odium back then (who changed nicks after the insider fiasco).

 

[ethomaz]

The rumor being Sony is handling the first round of Pre Orders and those being promised to be filled first. As other Pre Orders will be filled after Sony's Pre Orders.

Edit

I'm off to Play Marvel Avengers. I will check on the thread every once in a while.

Retail will always get their batch first (Amazon, BestBuy, Walmart, etc will all have their consoles at priority).
How they will do with these consoles (how many will go to pre-order or available at day one stores) is not of Sony concern.

Thanks God the thread will be better to read now.

 

[jimbojim]

Also, saw somewhere Xbox Series S as an wall mounted Air Conditioner. LOL

 

[Chromata]

Casual gamers only play certain games, like Call of Duty, sports games, Fortnite, etc.

Most casual focused games that sell big will not be on Game Pass or will be free to play (but not really on Xbox.)

Game Pass offers appeal to hardcore gamers who want to play lots of different games.

Why would a casual gamer even pay for games if they can play COD WZ, GTA online, Fortnite, Rocket League, Apex, etc all for free?

Or there are some casuals who just buy FIFA and play that all year until the next game comes out.

Because the casual gamers need to play those free games on a system. Electing for the more accessible system that also comes with a Netflix-style game service would probably be the more desired option.

There are many people I know who don't game, view it as something interesting, but aren't inclined to pay hundreds of dollars upfront to give it a shot. This is something that would sway them, especially since the setup and finding games on Game Pass is so easy. These are the same people who play crappy mobile games so it'd be a massive step up. It's also not even about not being able to afford the cost, it's just not something that's so imminently valued that they feel like it warrants the (current) upfront price tag.

Game Pass definitely appeals to hardcore gamers, I use it and I like it, but I don't think it's primarily for hardcore gamers. It's trying to be an all-in-one gaming service where you only need to engage with Game Pass, which many hardcore gamers frankly won't settle with.

I just pay my Game Pass subscription for 1 month to play anything I'm interested in then don't renew, while most of my gaming comes from paying full price for the games I want on PS4/Switch/PC. I want to play those games on the best possible hardware, not stream them on any device (the future XCloud integration).

So Project XCloud and Game Pass aren't primarily targeting me, I'd think they're primarily targeting the value-focused gamer that just wants to play anything decent for a cheap price wherever they feel like. It's like comparing the typical Spotify music listener vs an enthusiast with Hi-Fi gear and FLAC music.

 

[BizarroPete]

Xbox TW account doesn't get it. Or they are pissed.

Also, saw somewhere Xbox Series S as an wall mounted Air Conditioner. LOL

They do get it, they're making fun of people that go into a fast food restaurant asking for food from another restaurant, and the employee responds with "Sir this is a ...".

 

[IntentionalPun]

Xbox TW account doesn't get it. Or they are pissed.

Also, saw somewhere Xbox Series S as an wall mounted Air Conditioner. LOL

It's a joke.. a reference to "Sir, this is an Arby's" meme

 

[WhispersintheWind]

I usually don't go for the trouble to calling anyone all, as it's none of my business, but since you always repeat the "I have all" free pass card... we all know you are very clearly leaning towards a direction.
Everyone that see's your reaction and your posts know that. Maybe you should take a look yourself and find out too.

I'm a collector, I'll eventually buy an XSX and I have a preference. This "I have all of them" is usually BS and everyone knows it.

Same as Odium back then (who changed nicks after the insider fiasco).

I think your interrupting things that are not there. But trust me I will buy the Black Fridge X and the Router 5 on launch. If I don't get both consoles early. For the record I'm looking forward to the New SpiderMan Game featuring Miles!

 

[HAL-01]

same cpu as series x, ssd, rdna2 gpu but with a lower resolution target, I do not really see any problems.

Optimization for 2 different boxes is not as simple as lowering the resolution. Certain aspects of the graphics rendering pipeline do not scale as well, or at all, with resolution output. These aspects will have to be downgraded to fit the lower spec machine, Or worse: Being built for the weaker spec, then just ported over to the more powerful machine without fully taking advantage of that hardware. Either way its forcing some compromise onto developers.

 

[SportsFan581]

Well okay, but that doesn't really answer my question, so

I've never felt the XSX would have a huge performance advantage over PS5, so I can't speak to that. Most Xbox fans I've seen never actually make that claim, that's a strawman used by PS5 fans to have fictional arguments. PS5 and XSX are completely different products built on different strategies (Sony with very bespoke console hardware, and MS with a still customized but more PC compatible approach) both have strengths and weaknesses.

 

[jimbojim]

It's a joke.. a reference to "Sir, this is an Arby's" meme

Well, i don't buy at KFC that often. So, thanks.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's utterly disingenuous to claim that Series S won't hold games development back even though it's far less powerful, while at the same bleating on about how much more power the Series X has over Ps5.

So come on, Xbox fans... which is it?

Does a weaker console means games will run worse or not?

Can't have it both ways.

Only two options for them.

A: The XSS won't hold the XSX back so the PS5 won't hold the XSX back either.

B: The PS5 will hold the XSX back and the XSS will hold it even more back to due the greater power difference.

I don't know which one to choose just yet though.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Don't you think it's odd that Sony is handling pre orders first for PS5? That they had to announce around a month ago that they was upping production? But sure we go with it's all just me spreading a rumor..why not it's 2020 you know! /S

From my understanding they increased production because the demand was unprecedented. With that said even if they have a ton of systems to sell there can still be shortages due to how high the demand will be. They can still end up selling over 10 million consoles and still have shortages. That's one of the bad things with producing such a highly anticipated product.

Edit: Here's the opposite case.

A console can launch with a really poor supply but if the demand isn't there nobody will have issues getting one. I think these console manufacturers have an estimation on what the demand will be and they are adjusting their supply to meet it. Sometimes the demand is too much for production though.

 

[WhispersintheWind]

Only two options for them.

A: The XSS won't hold the XSX back so the PS5 won't hold the XSX back either.

B: The PS5 will hold the XSX back and the XSS will hold it even more back to due the greater power difference.

I don't know which one to choose just yet though.

I believe the Xbox One and PS4 will hold back 3rd party games more because of the CPU. I don't think the XSS will hold back the XSX because there is still people that game in 1080p on PC. So the texture and assets are already available. There is no reason PS5 or XSX should be held back by anything once cross gen dies.

 

[FunkMiller]

I've never felt the XSX would have a huge performance advantage over PS5, so I can't speak to that. Most Xbox fans I've seen never actually make that claim, that's a strawman used by PS5 fans to have fictional arguments. PS5 and XSX are completely different products built on different strategies (Sony with very bespoke console hardware, and MS with a still customized but more PC compatible approach) both have strengths and weaknesses.

Please tell me you're joking? Having a laugh at my expense, yes?
Or maybe you haven't been on this forum much?

 

[dwish]

Hm, so, at first XSS sounds like a pretty good deal. But then I remember that it is digital only. Its a bad combo having a digital only console with low amounts of storage and proprietary-only storage upgrades. Seems more like a scam to me to sell it that cheap.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Hope for XSS owners sake MS creates a system where assets can be tagged to not need to be downloaded for the XSS version.

Hell would be nice even for XSX owners who don't want to render at 4k to be able to do that.

PS5 too of course.

 

[Classicrockfan]

Anybody know who this is?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Anybody know who this is?

Probably just ass.

 

[DrDamn]

You can add additional storage to play PS5 games with an off the shelf internal M.2 NVMe SSD that fits in the PS5 expansion bay and is supported by the PS5. We do not know which ones will be supported. They will need to be around 7 GB/s read speed and PCIe Gen 4x4. I suspect the supported form factor will be M.2 2280.

Other than that, no. Only the internal. External HDDs work for PS4 games.

I would guess that it would support storage of games on an external SSD and allow you to quickly swap them in and out given the speed of the drives.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Anybody know who this is?

Literally the twitter handle of a single store in the UK.

No way they know shit.

Just trying to get people like yourself to spread it.. clickbait..

 

[hemo memo]

Anybody know who this is?

It's false. It is VR week for Sony so someone at Game Guildford screwed up.

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

If Sony waited this long just to announce a console that is more expensive then that would be stupid especially with "more powerful" on the paper as you said.

It should be the same price for the standard or Sony fucked up. Of course in no business way they can match the S so a 100$ difference is totally fine because you are getting the same console just without the disc.

Also the casual market buying this aren't neogaf members. What they'll hear is "Next gen console for 299$? What a deal" Which is exactly how Microsoft is advertising this.

Only it's not next gen. It a mid-range current gen machine that will run next gen games as minimal settings. Curious to see how it sells, but I don't think it will be viewed as a next gen machine.

 

[Classicrockfan]

It's false. It is VR week for Sony so someone at Game Guildford screwed up.

Ah ok thanks.

 

[Felessan]

same cpu as series x, ssd, rdna2 gpu but with a lower resolution target, I do not really see any problems.

Just to remind you - UE5 demo was 1440p30
On series S it will be 720p. Not a resolution you want to see in 2020. So any game that pushes visual fidelity will have greatly reduced quality or very low resolution on XsX.

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

If a 10.28TF system does not have Raytracing, it is impossible for a 4TF system to have it.

Spoiler

In case it is not clear, this answer is humorous.

*Raytracing only available on startup screen.

 

[Faithless83]

I think your interrupting things that are not there. But trust me I will by the Black Fridge X and the Router 5 on launch. If I don't get both consoles early.

You failed to see my reasoning. You usually pass on information that paints Sony as either having problems or practicing "some anti-consumer BS".

I have a gaming PC, but I do enjoy making fun of mustard race, because a lot of them are some self entitled elitists.

HeisenbergFX4 although clearly being a PS fan, provides news from both sides, same as BGs .
You on the other hand... and always covering up yourself with "18th hand info".

OsirisBlack was called out for less IMO, but he at least brought some interesting games info.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not in the mood for a witch hunt. I just suggest that you try a bit harder than "I'll buy all day one/I have it all". At least be more subtle with your "18th hand info".