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[kyliethicc]

id has roots in PC game making for 30 years. And their game engines always run well on any console or PC spec.

Don't see the problem.

If they think Series S is underpowered compared to latest tech, then don't make games for it, Xbox One, PS4 or any PC rig that is more than 5 years old.

An issue could be if Microsoft does not allow publishers to only support the Series X. They could require the S be supported too. And most 3rd party publishers will want the extra sales by putting their game on Xbox. So they could be stuck.

 

[zaitsu]

I'm really happy that Sony believes in generations.

 

[IntentionalPun]

MS badly needs to show off XSS vs XSX games.

Dev comments are negative across the board, but also seem to be commenting on paper specs.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Does xbox have some clause that studios have to make games for Xbox family of devices?? Cause this S about to get switch treatment at this rate.

If I were to guess on this I would say that Microsoft is probably not giving developers the option. If they want the Xbox Series S to be extremely successful it needs to play the same games that the XSX plays.

 

[FranXico]

Dev comments are negative across the board, but also seem to be commenting on paper specs.

They're not just criticising specs, but also practical aspects.

 

[zaitsu]

An issue could be if Microsoft does not allow publishers to only support the Series X. They could require the S be supported too. And most 3rd party publishers will want the extra sales by putting their game on Xbox. So they could be stuck.

Guess who gains the most.
SONY exclusives not hold by any means by low end PCs or lower SKU.
Thats huge fuckin win.

 

[IntentionalPun]

They're not just criticising specs, but also practical aspects.

I just mean they don't sound like they've actually developed for XSS.

Not saying there's no merit; the lead engine programmer for iD knows their shit.. but would still like to hear form devs actually coding for XSS/XSX and all the comments sound like people hearing about specs.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The thing is he's not pointing out highly technical game dev stuff. Its just basic stuff that seems fairly clear. Even if he's a shit developer, he's sorta just stating the obvious.

For sure.

But for any dev complaining, that;'s the way software development works. You got a ton of different platforms from top end PC rigs down to crappier rigs, modern consoles and last gen consoles, and maybe even dumb down to a mobile version (if there is one).

If any dev doesn't like making games for multiplat sales, then just stick to a high spec PC rigs, PS5 and SeX. That way you got 3 versions that will be pretty close to each other.

And you can skip all the older and less powerful PCs and consoles and tablet/mobile versions.

 

[Dodkrake]

LOL. Scaling is easy, right???

Exactly what everybody has been teling some Xbox zealots. It feels great to be right time and again.

 

[3liteDragon]

The thing is he's not pointing out highly technical game dev stuff. Its just basic stuff that seems fairly clear. Even if he's a shit developer, he's sorta just stating the obvious.

I don't agree with some of the stuff the Squanch Games guy said about PS5 and XSX, like how they're not 4K@60FPS boxes and ray-tracing won't be used that much. I mean, looking at his studio's portfolio, Idk if his comments hold as much weight as someone like Billy Khan (engine programmer for id Tech). But the RAM issue with Series S looks like it could be a potential issue after seeing multiple devs now talking about it.

 

[zaitsu]

MS badly needs to show off XSS vs XSX games.

Dev comments are negative across the board, but also seem to be commenting on paper specs.

I think it will be even worse if devs didnt have hands on devkits 2 months prior the launch. Don't you ?
Stop kidding yourself.
Its really good strategy for MS and casual players.
Just not for whole medium and pushing boundaries further .

It makes me angry personally because XSS is the reason why multiplatforms will never use full potential nor on XSX or PS5.

As playstation buyer it makes me angry, but if i wanted to buy XSX i would be mad as fuck.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I think it will be even worse if devs didnt have hands on devkits 2 months prior the launch. Don't you ?

The ones with Dev Kits probably aren't supposed to say anything is my point.

SO we are hearing from people not under any sort of NDA.

 

[INC]

MS badly needs to show off XSS vs XSX games.

Dev comments are negative across the board, but also seem to be commenting on paper specs.

Games?

 

[jose4gg]

I don't agree with some of the stuff the Squanch Games guy said about PS5 and XSX, like how they're not 4K@60FPS boxes and ray-tracing won't be used that much. I mean, looking at his studio's portfolio, Idk if his comments hold as much weight as someone like Billy Khan (engine programmer for id Tech). But the RAM issue with Series S looks like it could be a potential issue after seeing multiple devs now talking about it.

They are 4k60 for current-gen games with a couple of improvements here and there, but for next-gen games that 4k60 can translate to 1800p60 or something like that, it won't be 4k for the rest of the generation especially once we put the CPU on its knees and start using the GPU for other tasks more and more...

 

[IntentionalPun]

Games?

Yeah I laughed right after hitting send and thought about editing in "or anything running on XSX" but just left it for the peanut gallery lol

 

[3liteDragon]

The ones with Dev Kits probably aren't supposed to say anything is my point.

SO we are hearing from people not under any sort of NDA.

I get what you're saying but even these devs who don't have access to the Series S devkits, they are talking from experience here from developing for current-gen consoles.

 

[kyliethicc]

For sure.

But for any dev complaining, that;'s the way software development works. You got a ton of different platforms from top end PC rigs down to crappier rigs, modern consoles and last gen consoles, and maybe even dumb down to a mobile version (if there is one).

If any dev doesn't like making games for multiplat sales, then just stick to a high spec PC rigs, PS5 and SeX. That way you got 3 versions that will be pretty close to each other.

And you can skip all the older and less powerful PCs and consoles and tablet/mobile versions.

Or you could just make a console game. In 2012 there were 2 consoles to support. PS3 and 360. Simple.

PS4 Pro and Xbox One X were dumb half steps. Bad for game devs.

Now theres just 1 PS5 again. But Xbox had to fuck it up.

Not every game goes to PC at launch and many port it over later after they do their console launch. Like RDR2.

We could have had at least 3 years of the PS5 and XSX being the baseline for game dev for new games.
(PC is fine whatever, doesn't affect the baseline AS much.)

Its disappointing.

 

[INC]

Yeah I laughed right after hitting send and thought about editing in "or anything running on XSX" but just left it for the peanut gallery lol

 

[MasterCornholio]

The ones with Dev Kits probably aren't supposed to say anything is my point.

SO we are hearing from people not under any sort of NDA.

Well ID software is talking about it. And they are releasing a patch for Doom on next gen consoles. I think it's safe to assume that they have the dev kits for the Series S at this point.

Spoiler: Billy Khan

Bethesda Pledges Next-Gen Versions of Doom Eternal, Elder Scrolls Online Will be Free to All PS4, Xbox One Owners - ExtremeTech

Gamers who bought Bethesda titles on the PS4 and Xbox One can look forward to playing those titles for free next generation, but what about PC players? Will they get any improvements / upgrades for free as well?

www.extremetech.com

 

[JTCx]

Another dev not happy with XSS

nononononono why you do this? bu but scalability

 

[zaitsu]

Or you could just make a console game. In 2012 there were 2 consoles to support. PS3 and 360. Simple.

PS4 Pro and Xbox One X were dumb half steps. Bad for game devs.

Now theres just 1 PS5 again. But Xbox had to fuck it up.

Not every game goes to PC at launch and many port it over later after they do their console launch. Like RDR2.

We could have had at least 3 years of the PS5 and XSX being the baseline for game dev for new games.
(PC is fine whatever, doesn't affect the baseline AS much.)

Its disappointing.

It is.
But i fully understand MS strategy.
Push that gamepass as much as they can because thats their last hardware generation. After that they will made money as MS always do. From software on PC. Thats all.

 

[Shmunter]

that makes sense. we know from the PS4 Pro, that memory bandwidth can be a MAJOR issue. 226 gbps for a current gen mid gen console wasnt enough, why do we think it will be enough for a next gen console with far higher quality assets and textures?

that might be true for xsx too. i really hope MS knows what they are doing.

They do. But it's not for gamers. They've thrown next gen and enthusiasts under the bus.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Or you could just make a console game. In 2012 there were 2 consoles to support. PS3 and 360. Simple.

PS4 Pro and Xbox One X were dumb half steps. Bad for game devs.

Now theres just 1 PS5 again. But Xbox had to fuck it up.

Not every game goes to PC at launch and many port it over later after they do their console launch. Like RDR2.

We could have had at least 3 years of the PS5 and XSX being the baseline for game dev for new games.
(PC is fine whatever, doesn't matter AS much.)

Its disappointing.

And why is PC excluded?

A good PC rig is still going to beat SeX and PS5, yet a typical high budget game on PC can probably still run on a 5 year old PC with video cards AMD and Nvidia don't even sell anymore.

So a PC with a million configs that need to be supported seems to be no problem for a game maker, yet for consoles Series S or a couple mid gen models is a crushingly hard task?

PS4 Pro and Xbox X had boosted res, better frames, enhanced visuals and even did some BC enhancements. Didn't seem like a problem to me.

 

[zaitsu]

Well ID software is talking about it. And they are releasing a patch for Doom on next gen consoles. I think it's safe to assume that they have the dev kits for the Series S at this point.

Bethesda Pledges Next-Gen Versions of Doom Eternal, Elder Scrolls Online Will be Free to All PS4, Xbox One Owners - ExtremeTech

Gamers who bought Bethesda titles on the PS4 and Xbox One can look forward to playing those titles for free next generation, but what about PC players? Will they get any improvements / upgrades for free as well?

www.extremetech.com

Dude is in denial mode.

 

[Dolomite]

MS badly needs to show off XSS vs XSX games.

Dev comments are negative across the board, but also seem to be commenting on paper specs.

At this point I'd like to simply see MS and Sony show off more gameplay. God fall, ratchet and the medium is all we've seen in terms of a proper walkthrough

 

[Crazychipmunx]

So from what I gather, Series X devkits have an option to enter a "Series S" mode. This can easily be done by limiting active CU count and clock speed, however how can this account for the different memory configuration for the series S. Could this account for the reason why we haven't seen any real gameplay running on either console from third party sources?

 

[kyliethicc]

It is.
But i fully understand MS strategy.
Push that gamepass as much as they can because thats their last hardware generation. After that they will made money as MS always do. From software on PC. Thats all.

Of course it makes sense from Microsoft's perspective. They'll be able to get the Series S down to $200 over the years and make a volume play. Its smart business. Game Pass, Xcloud, etc. Their strategy is clear.

But I'm not thrilled about where they're trying to take gaming. Same with Stadia.

 

[Wraith Phantom]

The ones with Dev Kits probably aren't supposed to say anything is my point.

SO we are hearing from people not under any sort of NDA.

They have access. They just got the balls to speak up.

Yeah some stuff is still under NDA. But not everything. When Xbox came out themselves & please the product. It's fair game to certain degrees. Notice the devs only spoke after Xbox announced the XSS.

 

[Bryank75]

Dudes were complaining about the line up. Now this shit looks amazing huh. Its a nice road map for what a year & a half. 1 free game so 17 games.

I will definitely buy 13/17 games. Not buying volcano high too much mtv daria esq vibe thats not a game, come on. I don't see Athia coming out any time soon its called project we know how that goes. Not sold on Stray, Solar Ash & jett are Ps+ level games I might buy maybe ,maybe if they are cheap.

I cant complain its a good road map for first few years. Whats missing a fighter ,shooter ,J-rpg. Apparently there's still stuff to show. I hope PS leave the clip empty,And not put the gun back in the holster. More games ,more games announcement please.

I imagine some of them are specifically for PS+....

 

[IntentionalPun]

Dude is in denial mode.

Who me?

Go fuck yourself.

 

[Ptarmiganx2]

At this point I'd like to simply see MS and Sony show off more gameplay. God fall, ratchet and the medium is all we've seen in terms of a proper walkthrough

We saw HZD2 gameplay...most people just don't believe it yet

 

[kyliethicc]

And why is PC excluded?

A good PC rig is still going to beat SeX and PS5, yet a typical high budget game on PC can probably still run on a 5 year old PC with video cards AMD and Nvidia don't even sell anymore.

So a PC with a million configs that need to be supported seems to be no problem for a game maker, yet for consoles Series S or a couple mid gen models is a crushingly hard task?

PS4 Pro and Xbox X had boosted res, better frames, enhanced visuals and even did some BC enhancements. Didn't seem like a problem to me.

What's a good rig? Cause you'll need a 3070 to beat the consoles. Or more. $1000s on total build.

Most PC gamers don't have that.

 

[3liteDragon]

So from what I gather, Series X devkits have an option to enter a "Series S" mode. This can easily be done by limiting active CU count and clock speed, however how can this account for the different memory configuration for the series S. Could this account for the reason why we haven't seen any real gameplay running on either console from third party sources?

I think it was something like the Series X devkits having a Lockhart profile that emulates the way Lockhart works, but recently there's been rumors going around that some devs now have access to Series S devkits.

 

[Dolomite]

Another dev not happy with XSS

Yeah.... his admission of having never worked on an Xbox X/s Devkit makes me leery. I trust that he knows his way around programming but, l he should get his hands on SKU before speaking in absolutes

 

[zaitsu]

And why is PC excluded?

A good PC rig is still going to beat SeX and PS5, yet a typical high budget game on PC can probably still run on a 5 year old PC with video cards AMD and Nvidia don't even sell anymore.

So a PC with a million configs that need to be supported seems to be no problem for a game maker, yet for consoles Series S or a couple mid gen models is a crushingly hard task?

PS4 Pro and Xbox X had boosted res, better frames, enhanced visuals and even did some BC enhancements. Didn't seem like a problem to me.

Ok find me a PC player that want to play nextgen tittles with less than 10 GB combined memory. 4 GB RAM with 2 GB vram ? Maybe in 2013.
Right now 8 GB RAM and 4 GB Vram is low end. And thats more than Xbox one series 2.

 

[Faithless83]

MS badly needs to show off XSS vs XSX games.

Dev comments are negative across the board, but also seem to be commenting on paper specs.

You know what dev stands for? The people who are experienced on making games.
If a baker tells you that the oven brand X is not good, you believe in who? The manufacturer of the oven or the baker?

 

[Tiago07]

Based in what developers are saying about XSS ( and we're talking about ID guys, so maybe .....):

Or the XSS strategy goes in the right choice for MS and sales many Gamepass subscriptions or Sony obliterates MS in media with "Truly NextGen games" with their exclusives and the generation turns to focus on PlayStation again.

What do I believe Its possible ?
Some people will buy the PS5 and late the XSS, and MS will can't ignore their lower denominator console, but the media and gaming talk will focus on PlayStation titles and probably Sony will buy more studios to demand more titles for PlayStation and more second party agreements (PlayStation + PC ), because its better to work with one hardware and PlayStation will have a solid base to do that.

It's a 50/50 choice, could be turn to be a great choice like not too (and will have some great problems if not be).


Obviously I am consider that Sony will have incredible games not possible on Xbox because of XSS and the developer talks turn to be true.

 

[jamwest24]

MS badly needs to show off XSS vs XSX games.

Dev comments are negative across the board, but also seem to be commenting on paper specs.

There's probably a very good reason why they haven't..Could it be they don't look amazing?? Not to mention we've still not really seen anything except current gen ports running on either Xbox..

 

[zaitsu]

Who me?

Go fuck yourself.

Ive heard that xbox fanboys are agressive but...

 

[StreetsofBeige]

What's a good rig? Cause you'll need a 3070 to beat the consoles. Or more. $1000s on total build.

Most PC gamers don't have that.

Ok find me a PC player that want to play nextgen tittles with less than 10 GB combined memory. 4 GB RAM with 2 GB vram ? Maybe in 2013.
Right now 8 GB RAM and 4 GB Vram is low end. And thats more than Xbox one series 2.

That's not the point.

The point is PC game makers have no problem scaling games to a million configs, yet can still churn out a game that looks better than any console version.

So the whole "holding it back" is BS.

 

[Dolomite]

We saw HZD2 gameplay...most people just don't believe it yet

He saw an ingame trailer. If I want what we all wanted in July, the experience of watching a game being played

 

[Empire Strikes Back]

But what about Mark Cerny's comments that the RAM will be used more efficiently because of the quicker speed at getting stuff in to it from the SSD? 10GB RAM is more like 30GB, is what I've interpreted that as (2x-3x workable increase).

He said more RAM is working on behalf of the game but little RAM still is little RAM. He used that to justify going from 8GB to 16GB, not to stay on 8GB (or 10GB on XSS case).

 

[MasterCornholio]

Who me?

Go fuck yourself.

That wasn't my intention by the way.

 

[phat_crazy]

As this generation goes along games will become more ambitious
As they become more ambitious memory and speed will become exponentially more and more important
Yet developers will have to worry about the Series S instead of fully taking advantage of the PS5's and Series X's memory solutions worry free

 

[zaitsu]

That's not the point.

The point is PC game makers have no problem scaling games to a million configs, yet can still churn out a game that looks better than any console version.

So the whole "holding it back" is BS.

When you take a game for PC, take a look on its back.
It says min. Requirements.
Now on consoles it could be PS5 which isnt worse than XSX in any department beside GPU, and better in some other things.

But right now its XSS.
And it has almost Xbox one (2013) memory pool, and GPU on par with XOX (2017).

It will fuvking hold back games.
All multiplatform games.

 

[Dane]

Yeah.... his admission of having never worked on an Xbox X/s Devkit makes me leery. I trust that he knows his way around programming but, l he should get his hands on SKU before speaking in absolutes

Here's a controversial take:

1440p120 is a just a marketing purpose, it will run on indie games and non demanding foward ports of games like R6 Siege which also has the option to turn off vsync in consoles and get like 90-100FPS in that outbreak event mode.

1080p30-60fps is going to be the standard for it, the impact of going from 1080p to 2160p is huge on PC, couple that with lower res textures and technically, it's possible, heck, I could even go lower to 720-900p and put a upscaler, that dude is not wrong on that. And even cap the FPS to 30, since 60 FPS is going to be likely the median, if not, majority standard.

In other words, imagine that the PS4Pro and Xbox One X had games designed for them and it would require to use the standars of lower resolution and FPS to their base consoles conteupart to deliver a significant difference.

 

[Thirty7ven]

They do. But it's not for gamers. They've thrown next gen and enthusiasts under the bus.

I've been saying, for months, XSX is a smoke screen.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

When you take a game for PC, take a look on its back.
It says min. Requirements.
Now on consoles it could be PS5 which isnt worse than XSX in any department beside GPU, and better in some other things.

But right now its XSS.
And it has almost Xbox one (2013) memory pool, and GPU on par with XOX (2017).

It will fuvking hold back games.
All multiplatform games.

Really?

So a PC game whose min required specs are from 5 year old parts is holding back the visuals and frame rate from a gamer with a top end 2020 PC using ultra settings?

 

[Mr Moose]

And don't worry, Richard said they didn't help with that Series S at 120 FPS footage.

Because for DF to take part in an official promotional video for Xbox... wouldn't be very impartial or professional, of course.

Thankfully it was just a happy coincidence. Microsoft just so happened to use the exact same overlays. Funny.

They should've kept it at 60fps, that looks terrible. It's just an option, right?

 

[Shmunter]

LOL. Scaling is easy, right???

Shit show extravaganza. All of a sudden Sony fans need to ramp up their advocacy to ensure PS5 sells more than ever to ensure we at least get a proper chance at next gen by 3rd parties.