Captain Toad
Banned
Nope, but he does rock the "I'm a gamer too" platinum trophies for some pretty tough games.
Inside Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart on PS5: The Insomniac Technology Breakdown
- Thread starter TheRedRiders
- Start date
ethomaz
Banned
Well the best way to have insight in game design or even features to console hardware is playing diversity of games.
I like how Cerny are in touch with games to see the pros and cons of each one.
nowhat
Member
...which some really can't accept to be real, the relevant threads can be hilarious
MasterCornholio
Member
Honestly it just seems like a smart way to save on resources. If it's unnoticeable why should anyone care?
It's not an indication that the console is weak it's just the developers being smarter on how they allocate resources. The same principal could be applied to any system.
Bonsaibäumchen
Member
17:25 - He specifically mentioned that its due to the way the Engine is constructed, thats why the CPU wouldn't be able to handle 120hz yet.
So it could be possible by further refining the Engine.
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Mister Wolf
Member
I see. Too bad we will never get to see the PC workaround. For curiosities sake I would love to know how it would be accomplished and with what system requirements before the updates to PC I/O come out.
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Well we probably wont' see anything truly push those speeds either on PC for a long time; games aren't going to design around it. So we also really don't know what's possible on a current bottlenecked nVME, for a small action game like this, using portals as a sort of fast-travel mechanic.
Ratchet only has 33GB total data on disk.. and some portion of that is compressed textures; so maybe ~60GB of total game assets once decompressed. In itself, it fits in RAM split in about 1/5th on the PS5 (assuming ~13GB available) probably.
As the dev said, there is SSD perf left on the table... the PS5 allows them to entirely switch asset sets nearly instantly (especially considering compression), it doesn't mean the game is really doing that. It's loading things that aren't there, but those things aren't suddenly taking up most of the RAM.
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I get that. I'm about to post a screen shot soon of one of the flies at ground level in front of Rivet. It is possible to see that fly that detailed in game, you just have to chase it, lol.
This is the best I can get for right now, never really posted screenshots before today..... This is the fly at ground level. I dont know if the eye detail can be seen outside photo mode because you have to be...really....close with the camera.
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MasterCornholio
Member
I get that. I'm about to post a screen shot soon of one of the flies at ground level in front of Rivet. It is possible to see that fly that detailed in game, you just have to chase it, lol.
This is the best I can get for right now, never really posted screenshots before today..... This is the fly at ground level. I dont know if the eye detail can be seen outside photo mode because you have to be...really....close with the camera.
Zooming in I can see that hexagon pattern on the eyes.
Leviathan, the twitter user who's a software engineer actually said rachet would take up about 200gbs if it was made using last gen methods, the compression & I/O technologies used in the ps5 allows it to compress to around 33gbs, which is astonishing
I just noticed that too.
This is one good ass looking game....lol. Shiieeeet. Also, some worlds have teleport pads, extremely fast.
This game is an absolutely showcase for what the SSD, I/O can do. We wont be ready for later gen games.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
You two trying to get a Professional Victim tag too?
nowhat
Member
RaySoft
Member
What a great game! I'm about 1,5 hours in and I'm captivated. Not an easy game to put down for sure. Well it's true what everyone is saying, it's really extraordinary. Some of the best graphics I've seen real-time. I get why people compare it to Pixar. It's obvious we are dealing with expert devs here, they know how to get their point across.
The SSD is certainly being exploited here, but maybe not to the extend that most believe? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's techically impossible, but after checking out some things, It's more likely that some worlds are already resident in memory rather than loaded in on the fly. (some places are though, like the regular rifts) But the ones you open with L1 and you can walk back and forth and even the ones you smash to get to the alternating universe are probably already resident in RAM. I say "probably" because with the theoretical bandwith it's not impossible to acheive. But what I DO know is that we uasually take the easier path that than the hard one as long as the end result is the same.
I broke all the boxes right next to a dimension crystal to check this out. The premise being it's easier to flush all and load an entire new world with it's default "settings" (i.e. breakable objects placements etc.) But when spawning back again the boxes was still destroid. This dosen't PROVE anything mind you, they could still keep track of every breakable thing you did and restore it when you shifted back again. But this comes again back to my earlier statement that why "complicate things" if you "don't have to". Either Insomniac are GODS (wich they really are anyways) or we are still being "tricked" by smart programming as per usual;-)
Gripes: Insomniac should unlock the freecam in camera mode for cutscenes. We know it's real-time anyways since you can turn on or off the visual effects in the scene.(and changing filters etc)
Just my 5 cents, this is a hellowa game. Congrats Insomniac; The next-get has finally become current-gen!
Edit: With further testing the ammo crates are actually respawning when you change dimmensions.
Edit2: Now I see that energy boxes and a regular box (wich didnt respawn earlier) where respawned when going back to back in the dimensions, so flushing and loadning seems kinda dynamic. Seems like they have a system in place to know when it's most efficient to keep things in memory or flush it and reload.. Impressive.
Seriously guys; I'm seeing every PS5 owner bying this game, you really should. 9,5/10 (so far)
The SSD is certainly being exploited here, but maybe not to the extend that most believe? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's techically impossible, but after checking out some things, It's more likely that some worlds are already resident in memory rather than loaded in on the fly. (some places are though, like the regular rifts) But the ones you open with L1 and you can walk back and forth and even the ones you smash to get to the alternating universe are probably already resident in RAM. I say "probably" because with the theoretical bandwith it's not impossible to acheive. But what I DO know is that we uasually take the easier path that than the hard one as long as the end result is the same.
I broke all the boxes right next to a dimension crystal to check this out. The premise being it's easier to flush all and load an entire new world with it's default "settings" (i.e. breakable objects placements etc.) But when spawning back again the boxes was still destroid. This dosen't PROVE anything mind you, they could still keep track of every breakable thing you did and restore it when you shifted back again. But this comes again back to my earlier statement that why "complicate things" if you "don't have to". Either Insomniac are GODS (wich they really are anyways) or we are still being "tricked" by smart programming as per usual;-)
Gripes: Insomniac should unlock the freecam in camera mode for cutscenes. We know it's real-time anyways since you can turn on or off the visual effects in the scene.(and changing filters etc)
Just my 5 cents, this is a hellowa game. Congrats Insomniac; The next-get has finally become current-gen!
Edit: With further testing the ammo crates are actually respawning when you change dimmensions.
Edit2: Now I see that energy boxes and a regular box (wich didnt respawn earlier) where respawned when going back to back in the dimensions, so flushing and loadning seems kinda dynamic. Seems like they have a system in place to know when it's most efficient to keep things in memory or flush it and reload.. Impressive.
Seriously guys; I'm seeing every PS5 owner bying this game, you really should. 9,5/10 (so far)
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Tripolygon
Banned
It is. There is no point in rendering what you can't really see or what doesn't add much to the final image. Reyes offline CGI rendering algorithms does the same thing too to a lesser extent, im oversimplifying of course.
Tripolygon
Banned
Thanks for posting this. Even without zooming in you can see how detailed that model is.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
A software engineer eh? lol Either way, you don't account for the lack of need to duplicate assets when discussing what would get pulled into RAM. .. not talking about "compared to last gen methods".. And I think that person is way exaggerating how much the total games assets would get compressed.
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dcmk7
Banned
Feel sorry for Dark10x, Xbox fans really got on his back when they couldn't cope with some bad news.
People take things way too far.
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
Problem is both.
If the CPU were faster they wouldn't need to improve and further optimize the engine, brute force would push it there. Because the CPU isn't faster they need to improve the engine.
The CPUs in this generation are good, but good more to standardize 60fps, not to make 120fps a common thing.
Shmunter
Member
Only by imbeciles
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Does this spoil anything important if you haven't finished the game yet?
Epic Sax CEO
Banned
Negotiator101
Member
GPU is also, why you think the resolution is dropping so much?
ethomaz
Banned
We will actually get decompressors units in PC.
The Industry manufactures are already in talk but there is no consensus where it will be… Motherboard, GPU, CPU, etc.
But the Industry in the future will start to have similar decompressor units like PS5 has.
assurdum
Banned
It uses raytracing at 60 FPS. Bottleneck my balls.
ethomaz
Banned
That not what he said… they said they left GPU power headroom to reach 120fps.
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assurdum
Banned
Lol
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Well we also have GPU decompression coming for RTX GPUs.
Not sure what amount of the GPU they utilize, but it likely is much better than CPU utilization, and there's plenty of TF to spare on modern GPUs lol
ethomaz
Banned
They explicitly said that c'mon.
The fact the resolution is basically fixed tells you more than what you are trying to imply.
assurdum
Banned
I don't knew, I'm not trying to imply anything.. I haven't seen the video. Just laughed about the opinion of the person who you quoted anyway.
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ethomaz
Banned
Sorry if that the case.
My mistake.
GHG
Member
It's just a shame we can't trade them out to have John back posting here.
abel empire
Banned
The cutscenes, photo mode are all realtime using the same assets nothing is pre rendered in this game so what are they arguing about.
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ethomaz
Banned
I believe most probably place will be GPU… but they will add fixed units and not use the Computer Power like nVidia is doing… nVidia is basically a half step to the goal.
IMO I really preferes it to be in the motherboard or CPU because that way it could work even in onboard GPUs but maybe there are latencies and bandwidth issues so Sony choose to put it near the GPU too.
In any case PC in the future will have the same or better decompressors than consoles.
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GHG
Member
You clearly have no idea how bottlenecks work do you?
The higher the framerate is the more burden there is on the CPU to process each frame at the speed required.
Nice try though.
abel empire
Banned
Could be complicated or not problem with pc isnt memory its memory latency you have too many middle men cpu talks to ram talks to gpu talks to cpu talks to storage this long steps are the bottleneck,
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
Where are you getting that there is any movement to add fixed decompression units to PCs?
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
It's really not latency, it's throughput. I don't know where this forum keeps getting that; throughput is bottlnecked on PC due to the need to go through CPU/system RAM. The latency is still incredibly low.
But DirectStorage removes that.
SakkanartSilentJealousy
Member
Impressive. Someone said PS5's SSD is just fast loading.
Md Ray
Member
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ethomaz
Banned
These some manufacturers docs that tells you the possibility of dedicated units in the future are not out of question.
It is early yet and they probably test the options before have a more defined plan for that.
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MasterCornholio
Member
And some people still believe that to be honest. They really don't understand how the developers are using the I/O.
But it seems like they are in a state of denial more than anything.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
It's right here:
Full vid/presentation here:
just goes to show how far ahead Cerny really was. this is an even bigger deal than 8GB GDDR5 which also took a while to become standard on mid to high end PC GPUs because the PS4 only had 5 GB of VRAM available for games and some of it was used for system ram which PC games have an abundance of.
This is almost 11 Zen 2 Cores of performance that they will need dedicated hardware for. Anything is possible, but I think cerny deserves a lot of credit for designing something that is years ahead of anything in the PC space and for only $399.
