tommib
Member
Love you, man.
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DF - Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart PS5 Pro vs PS5 Image Quality Face-Off
- Thread starter HeisenbergFX4
- Start date
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Same boat right there with you it makes me no difference what the guy does in his personal life
Its funny how strange some of the greatest athletes were in my day (and still are) and people never knew it and still worshipped them
Just makes me wonder how the fans outlook would have been on their idols if they actually knew the person and their personal life like we have access to that stuff today
MikeM
Gold Member
Love you and all my dysfunctional gaf fam
Agreed. I guess thats why they say “never meet your heros.”
Radical_3d
Member
I agree that the ad-hominem should have stoped years ago, but let’s not pretend he hasn’t been unfair a number of times. That’s where all the hate comes from (rabid fanboys aside).
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
My hope is that in a few years, there’s one ubiquitous non-proprietary upscaling solution that works as well as all the others and we use it. While the upscaling arms-race is neat to see, it still creates the problem of potentially too many choices. DLSS, TAAU, XeSS, FSR, and
XXL
even found update files of a PC game mentioning PSSR. Might be meaningless, but nothing stops Sony from using PSSR in their PC ports.
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Madserb2023
Member
I just don't want marketing nonsense anymore. Sony should just say the PRO is more powerful and games will be better on it. That's it. As soon as you say you won't have to choose between performance or quality then it's a lie. Quality still looks much better in Ratchet. It's not the quality mode at 60. Never thought it would be mind you. It would need to be closer to 20 TF for that. It also has the same CPU. I just wish Sony allowed for 120 hz in all games so we would have the larger VRR window.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Yeah it's series s all over again but the other way.
Luipadre
Member
No. Other games showed the opposite result. Like FF7 rebirth or TLOU2. Both had better texture detail on the Pro
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Radical_3d
Member
Yep. DF has made 2 deep dives on positive results before this video. Deemed as boring they don’t get half the clout of this one with less positive results. Hence the 3 thousand billion comments.
Bojji
Gold Member
Fans of a certain console were mostly ranting about how he talked about this piece of hardware, he wasn't objectively wrong often (no one is 100% right). He doesn't like consoles, Xbox or PS, that's why in his opinions they are always treated as weak/medium class PCs - and they are exactly that.
Maybe a slightly different wish for me. I just wish that whatever rendering techniques they employ they offer an off / raw setting so that I can run some 8K 4xMSAA or something in 15 years when I want to go back to a game.My hope is that in a few years, there’s one ubiquitous non-proprietary upscaling solution that works as well as all the others and we use it. While the upscaling arms-race is neat to see, it still creates the problem of potentially too many choices. DLSS, TAAU, XeSS, FSR, and
Radical_3d
Member
Welp, he has his preferences and he show them a notch too much in a public forum. That’s why he’s rightfully criticised. Actually, I can’t see anybody that doesn’t own a 4090 liking this guy. That’s no reason to the ad-hominem, but he’s looking to antagonise and I’m confident that he’s very successful at that.
Vick
Gold Member
Tqaulity
Member
This is the point. BTW, unlocked the base PS5 actually averages closer to 50fps in Fidelity mode
My bet is that it would on the PRO. The base PS5 is already close to 50fps on average. You won't need need too much more GPU power to get it to 60fps
Based on the PS5 performance, the game doesn't need PSSR to hit 60fps in fidelity mode
No it doesn't. Which is why Performance RT and Performance mode push over 100fps when you dial down the resolution and settings.
Where did you pull the 20TF number from? Are you saying that it will need 2x the power of the base PS5 to hit 60fps? That's clearly not the case
Lots of misunderstanding and misinformation going on here. Let's recap:
- The base PS5 already PROVES that R&C left a ton of headroom in the native 4k/30fps locked fidelity mode. Once we got the 120hz and VRR support, the true unlocked performance is in the 40-60fps range with an average closer to 50fps! Quote from Wcctech: "On the other hand, though, the PlayStation 5 exclusive Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart received an enormous improvement with the PS5 VRR update, reaching up to 110 FPS once the frame rate is unlocked in RT Performance Mode. Fidelity Mode also gets a significant increase in frame per second, going near 60 FPS from the previously locked 30 FPS, though on average it hovers around 50 FPS."
- Based on that performance, you clearly don't need 2x the PS5 base or 20TF to hit 60fps. In fact, the (modest) 45-50% GPU uplift alone should be more than enough to yield a relatively locked 4K/60 on the PRO. No PSSR is even needed to get there. Raw GPU perf should be able to take ~40fps up to ~60fps already. But the game spends most of it's time ABOVE 40fps in fidelity mode so you wouldn't even need the full GPU uplift to get to 60fps.
- The game is clearly not CPU bound when running at or near 60fps! By definition, a CPU bound game would not get additional performance when lower GPU related settings like resolution. The Performance RT and Performance modes running at lower resolution and detail settings clearly perform at nearly 2x the framerate of the fidelity mode!! Please stop saying this
- The issue is that R&C actually appears to be one of the easiest cases for a native 4k/60 option on PRO since the base game already performs so well. In fact, the "Ultra Boost Mode" should take the DRS and unlocked FPS and push it to 4k/60 natively already (it only needs an addition 20-25% GPU bump to get there). That could yield a better result than this "Performance Pro" mode unless PSSR is producing results that are superior to native. Even then, the graphics settings and RT quality would be superior in the Fidelity mode. No patch needed and no PSSR needed.
- The "Performance PRO" mode is even less impressive with you consider than those lucky enough to have a 120hz VRR TV can already enjoy the performance RT mode on the base PS5 at 90+ FPS! So now we get a slightly sharper Performance RT mode with similar resolution to the base at 60fps. Yeah pretty lame!
- The benefits of a bespoke patch for fidelity mode could be to use PSSR to claw back some perf and add in additional RT (RT shadows and higher quality reflections). This should be able to still hit reconstructed 4K/60fps using PSSR which would clearly be the best way to play the game.
The idea is that the PRO should be better than this right?
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Maybe not. NxGamer got 43fps average and 38fps lows. Means you get 62fps average and 55fps lows. There is DRS in place and the average count is probably higher than 1440p (more like 1800p+), but to ensure no dip below 60, the best alternative would be 1440p upscaled to 4K with PSSR. That's without accounting for the faster ray tracing though, so it might actually bring the average closer to 70fps and the lows above 60. Still, PSSR pretty much guarantees that.
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To people keep asking why some games just can't outright bring the fidelity mode straight to the pro at lower res with PSSR. The best possible answer is CPU and time constraints. Most games at fidelity mode especially with RT probably maxed out the cpu and could not reach a solid 60fps even with lower resolution.
If they want to bring the fidelity mode to the pro, they may have need to rewrite the codes to free up cpu time And this will require more time and resources. I don't think they can afford with old game seeing most of the devs are already busy with their current games.
The most logical enhancement is to take the 60fps mode and use PSSR because the codes already programe to run it at 60fps. From there, they can add graphics enhancements that won't affect the cpu.
Remember, the pro and the base ps5 have the same cpu. this is just my guess.
Mark cerny kinda merky with the saying "bring fidelity mode with 60fps". Although it will be true for some games but not all when there are RT is involved. But image quality/clarity and detail wise, it is mostly true that it is comparable to the fidelity mode.
For now, I think it's okay. But for future sony games, I expect it to come close or match the fidelity mode in term of graphic setting.
If they want to bring the fidelity mode to the pro, they may have need to rewrite the codes to free up cpu time And this will require more time and resources. I don't think they can afford with old game seeing most of the devs are already busy with their current games.
The most logical enhancement is to take the 60fps mode and use PSSR because the codes already programe to run it at 60fps. From there, they can add graphics enhancements that won't affect the cpu.
Remember, the pro and the base ps5 have the same cpu. this is just my guess.
Mark cerny kinda merky with the saying "bring fidelity mode with 60fps". Although it will be true for some games but not all when there are RT is involved. But image quality/clarity and detail wise, it is mostly true that it is comparable to the fidelity mode.
For now, I think it's okay. But for future sony games, I expect it to come close or match the fidelity mode in term of graphic setting.
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ChiefDada
Gold Member
This is the point. BTW, unlocked the base PS5 actually averages closer to 50fps in Fidelity mode
My best is that it would on the PRO. The base PS5 is already close to 50fps on average. You won't need need too much more GPU power to get it to 60fps
Based on the PS5 performance, the game doesn't need PSSR to hit 60fps in fidelity mode
No it doesn't. Which is why Performance RT and Performance mode push over 100fps when you dial down the resolution and settings.
Where did you pull the 20TF number from? Are you saying that it will need 2x the power of the base PS5 to hit 60fps? That's clearly not the case
Lots of misunderstanding and misinformation going on here. Let's recap:
Insomniac definitely has more in the oven with regards to PRO updates. They clearly are not doing a good job of communicating it with this pretty lame display of the Performance Pro mode. But in particular, these VRR modes should go into overdrive on the PRO even from the boost mode. Performance RT should be damn near locked at 120fps and and the fidelity mode should be near locked at 60fps. A bespoke patch for fidelity mode to add more RT and visual quality would be nice. We just need to see it in action.
- The base PS5 already PROVES that R&C left a ton of headroom in the native 4k/30fps locked fidelity mode. Once we got the 120hz and VRR support, the true unlocked performance is in the 40-60fps range with an average closer to 50fps! Quote from Wcctech: "On the other hand, though, the PlayStation 5 exclusive Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart received an enormous improvement with the PS5 VRR update, reaching up to 110 FPS once the frame rate is unlocked in RT Performance Mode. Fidelity Mode also gets a significant increase in frame per second, going near 60 FPS from the previously locked 30 FPS, though on average it hovers around 50 FPS."
- Based on that performance, you clearly don't need 2x the PS5 base or 20TF to hit 60fps. In fact, the (modest) 45-50% GPU uplift alone should be more than enough to yield a relatively locked 4K/60 on the PRO. No PSSR is even needed to get there. Raw GPU perf should be able to take ~40fps up to ~60fps already. But the game spends most of it's time ABOVE 40fps in fidelity mode so you wouldn't even need the full GPU uplift to get to 60fps.
- The game is clearly not CPU bound when running at or near 60fps! By definition, a CPU bound game would not get additional performance when lower GPU related settings like resolution. The Performance RT and Performance modes running at lower resolution and detail settings clearly perform at nearly 2x the framerate of the fidelity mode!! Please stop saying this
- The issue is that R&C actually appears to be one of the easiest cases for a native 4k/60 option on PRO since the base game already performs so well. In fact, the "Ultra Boost Mode" should take the DRS and unlocked FPS and push it to 4k/60 natively already (it only needs an addition 20-25% GPU bump to get there). That could yield a better result than this "Performance Pro" mode unless PSSR is producing results that are superior to native. Even then, the graphics settings and RT quality would be superior in the Fidelity mode. No patch needed and no PSSR needed.
- The "Performance PRO" mode is even less impressive with you consider than those lucky enough to have a 120hz VRR TV can already enjoy the performance RT mode on the base PS5 at 90+ FPS! So now we get a slightly sharper Performance RT mode with similar resolution to the base at 60fps. Yeah pretty lame!
- The benefits of a bespoke patch for fidelity mode could be to use PSSR to claw back some perf and add in additional RT (RT shadows and higher quality reflections). This should be able to still hit reconstructed 4K/60fps using PSSR which would clearly be the best way to play the game.
The idea is that the PRO should be better than this right?
I mean I think he’s an utter (just look at his clear double standards) hack who can’t make an intellectually honest argument to save his life (you wouldn’t believe the amount of devs who rage over the amount of bullshit he shovels) but you’re not wrong that his modelling photos are used disingenuously when they *rarely* are of relevance and it’s often pure cowardly homophobia.
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tommib
Member
This is what I kept saying. The fidelity mode HAS to be hitting 60 on the unlocked VRR mode.This is the point. BTW, unlocked the base PS5 actually averages closer to 50fps in Fidelity mode
My bet is that it would on the PRO. The base PS5 is already close to 50fps on average. You won't need need too much more GPU power to get it to 60fps
Based on the PS5 performance, the game doesn't need PSSR to hit 60fps in fidelity mode
No it doesn't. Which is why Performance RT and Performance mode push over 100fps when you dial down the resolution and settings.
Where did you pull the 20TF number from? Are you saying that it will need 2x the power of the base PS5 to hit 60fps? That's clearly not the case
Lots of misunderstanding and misinformation going on here. Let's recap:
Insomniac definitely has more in the oven with regards to PRO updates. They clearly are not doing a good job of communicating it with this pretty lame display of the Performance Pro mode. But in particular, these VRR modes should go into overdrive on the PRO even from the boost mode. Performance RT should be damn near locked at 120fps and and the fidelity mode should be near locked at 60fps. A bespoke patch for fidelity mode to add more RT and visual quality would be nice. We just need to see it in action.
- The base PS5 already PROVES that R&C left a ton of headroom in the native 4k/30fps locked fidelity mode. Once we got the 120hz and VRR support, the true unlocked performance is in the 40-60fps range with an average closer to 50fps! Quote from Wcctech: "On the other hand, though, the PlayStation 5 exclusive Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart received an enormous improvement with the PS5 VRR update, reaching up to 110 FPS once the frame rate is unlocked in RT Performance Mode. Fidelity Mode also gets a significant increase in frame per second, going near 60 FPS from the previously locked 30 FPS, though on average it hovers around 50 FPS."
- Based on that performance, you clearly don't need 2x the PS5 base or 20TF to hit 60fps. In fact, the (modest) 45-50% GPU uplift alone should be more than enough to yield a relatively locked 4K/60 on the PRO. No PSSR is even needed to get there. Raw GPU perf should be able to take ~40fps up to ~60fps already. But the game spends most of it's time ABOVE 40fps in fidelity mode so you wouldn't even need the full GPU uplift to get to 60fps.
- The game is clearly not CPU bound when running at or near 60fps! By definition, a CPU bound game would not get additional performance when lower GPU related settings like resolution. The Performance RT and Performance modes running at lower resolution and detail settings clearly perform at nearly 2x the framerate of the fidelity mode!! Please stop saying this
- The issue is that R&C actually appears to be one of the easiest cases for a native 4k/60 option on PRO since the base game already performs so well. In fact, the "Ultra Boost Mode" should take the DRS and unlocked FPS and push it to 4k/60 natively already (it only needs an addition 20-25% GPU bump to get there). That could yield a better result than this "Performance Pro" mode unless PSSR is producing results that are superior to native. Even then, the graphics settings and RT quality would be superior in the Fidelity mode. No patch needed and no PSSR needed.
- The "Performance PRO" mode is even less impressive with you consider than those lucky enough to have a 120hz VRR TV can already enjoy the performance RT mode on the base PS5 at 90+ FPS! So now we get a slightly sharper Performance RT mode with similar resolution to the base at 60fps. Yeah pretty lame!
- The benefits of a bespoke patch for fidelity mode could be to use PSSR to claw back some perf and add in additional RT (RT shadows and higher quality reflections). This should be able to still hit reconstructed 4K/60fps using PSSR which would clearly be the best way to play the game.
The idea is that the PRO should be better than this right?
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
XXL
Gold Member
Radical_3d
Member
Yeah. Yeah. The guy is inflamable material, but it’s better to ignore him than insult him directly.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
Would have liked to see some extra RT from the PC maybe we'll get that on release, which means games like Spiderman 2 benefits as well? Insomniac please do it.
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kevboard
Member
anyone constantly complaining about Alex from DF is just a console fanboy in denial.
I legit think many people on here can't see past their fanboyism and see any small amount of criticism or even simply the act of comparing to PC or other consoles as an attack on their personal favourite plastic box.
it's pathetic to see. in the literal sense pathetic.
I legit think many people on here can't see past their fanboyism and see any small amount of criticism or even simply the act of comparing to PC or other consoles as an attack on their personal favourite plastic box.
it's pathetic to see. in the literal sense pathetic.
tommib
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
XXL
Gold Member
I mean you're in a thread called "Ratchet PS5 vs PS5 Pro comparison" that is filled with PC gamers and people who aren't interested in the PS5 Pro (which I personally don't mind).
And you're calling PS5 and PS5 Pro owners self conscious fanboys.....
Strange take...
Bojji
Gold Member
I can't comment on his actions on social media (I don't know what he is doing there) but in DF videos I didn't see anything related to "console war" or "platform war", he is mostly stating facts and numbers - it's not his fault that things like that often hurt people (very) attached to their hardware of choice.
I like his videos about RT, optimized settings and that he highlighted (ignored before that) shader stutter issue. Thanks to him and DF PC ports are (usually) in the better state than before.
Maybe he don't like PS5 and Sony? So what? Both Olivier and (especially) John are usually very positive about Sony and their games, DF as a whole is usually positive about Sony games in general. But people constantly accuse them of being bought by MS and/or Nvidia, it's stupid. Look up any DF video about big PS4 and PS5 exclusive from Sony and tell me that DF is shilling for MS...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Bojji
Gold Member
kevboard
Member
I don't see PC players shitting on him. but it says a lot when people get unreasonably hostile against someone who 99% of the time simply talks about objective numbers and facts.
someone whose entire work on DF is basically showing people issues with PC ports and settings that are optimal for mid range PCs. that's also where the console comparison usually come into play, as he often bases his mid range settings on what consoles do.
I have seen people say retarded shit like "who even needs Digital Foundry" in a thread about a video that is all about basic consumer protection by warning of a badly optimised PC port.
why? because he dared to compare it to the console version and show which benefits the PC port has so that a consumer can make an informed decision.
absolutely deranged ways of thinking.
mansoor1980
Member
XXL
Gold Member
To expand on my prior reply...
Every PS5 Pro thread is filled with PC gamers (again I'm fine with this).
In my opinion, it just shows how valid of a comparison PS5 Pro actually is to higher end PCs.....or they wouldn't feel the need to invade every fucking thread to bring up extremely expensive GPUs (like a 4090) to undermine the PS5 Pro's abilities.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
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XXL
Gold Member
XXL
Gold Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Skifi28
Member
I'm not in the "DF is biased" boat, but it does seems odd how indifferent they can be at first to new hardware (that isn't an overpriced GPU) for supposed tech enthusiasts. Unless they just have a pre-determined plan from negative to positive they follow in order to generate the biggest amount of clicks.This is basically the cycle of every Playstation announcement..
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
IDK, they where head over heels ecstatic about the X1X and their exclusive hands on from MS.
No indifference, no gaslighting, just pure blissful joy. I wonder what changed this gen?
XXL
Gold Member
This isn't unrealistic at all. It could be as simple as that.
Skifi28
Member
They did get tons of hands-on access, so I guess some dick-sucking was in order. It was practically sponsored content without the tag.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
That's the one most often brought up.
In what context? To prove how much better PC gaming is? 90% of the PC gamers invading those threads are always raving about how you can build an equivalent PC for the price of a PS5 Pro (you can't) and they usually choose some crap like a 4060 Ti or 7700 XT. Otherwise, those who know it's not possible are aware that the closest match should be a 4070.
Radical_3d
Member
Bojji
Gold Member
Most people HERE were disappointed when first rumors about Pro arrived, weakest hardware jump ever for a console (including PS4 Pro).
Why wouldn't they be excited? Xbox one was super shit and One X offered 4.5x better GPU, 50% more RAM, few times faster RAM and over 30% better CPU. All that for 500$.
Compare that to Pro with 45% better GPU, same RAM amount (but faster), 10% better CPU and removed disc drive for 700$/800 Euro...
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hinch7
Member
Its because of the crazy prices, especially if you live outside of the US.
By March next year even low end (60/70 tier) Nvidia and AMD DGPU's could match that level of performance. Granted they'll likely come with 8GB VRAM on base models.
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TrebleShot
Member
Yeah i ain't reading all this.
Is it pre order cancelled or
Pre order keeped
Thnx
Is it pre order cancelled or
Pre order keeped
Thnx