TheUndeadGamer
Member
I don't know if I would say graphic fidelity is being killed by 60 FPS, but I do think when possible there should be two options. Graphic fidelity at 30 and resolution at 60.
Is 60 FPS killing overall graphical fidelity?
- Thread starter TaiLopezFan
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- Opinion
Rykan
Member
I really don't think we're going back to 30 FPS games in the sense that it will be the only option. 60 FPS has never been as standardized in console gaming as it has now and non - cross gen games are embracing the 60 fps standard as well. I share your desire to have optional 60 FPS modes in every game.
drotahorror
Member
Sony X950G Review (XBR55X950G, XBR65X950G, XBR75X950G, XBR85X950G)
The Sony X950G is an impressive 4k TV with great picture quality. It can display deep blacks in a dark room thanks to the high native contrast ratio and full arr...
www.rtings.com
That is the TV I'm using for comparison.
I usually play in front of a monitor though, @ 27in I just don't need 4k.
Hawk269
Member
For a racing game, I think 60fps is pretty much needed. I loved Driveclub, but the framerate killed it for me and many (even though I played the shit out of it). For a game like a single player, story/cinematic type of game 60fps is really not needed...yes it is nice.
For me it is all about the genre of the game...not all games need to be 60fps.
For me it is all about the genre of the game...not all games need to be 60fps.
Complistic
Member
I will never play a 30 fps game again.
Astral Dog
Member
On PS3 and 360 yes on PS4 and above no
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Enjoy getting the cat back in the bag.
StreetsofBeige
Member
60 fps supporters.
We're getting there. Most games on next gen so far 60 fps, or at least have a 60 fps option.
At least were moving up the standards..... I dont see any "Humans can only see 24 fps" claims anymore.
We're getting there. Most games on next gen so far 60 fps, or at least have a 60 fps option.
At least were moving up the standards..... I dont see any "Humans can only see 24 fps" claims anymore.
LaughingStock
Member
60 fps > 4k
Hawking Radiation
Wants to watch an Event Horizon porno
GT7 looking worse than DriveClub?
Dude seriously, you may want to book an appointment at Spec Savers.
Hugare
Member
Well, duh. Of course it is.
What this dude said
Resolution and framerate will always compromise graphics.
Demons Souls look awesome at 1440p 60 fps? Imagine at 1080p 30 fps
Personally Im fine with the recent trend of "4k 30fps or 1440p 60 fps". Its a win for both groups, fidelity and framerate.
What this dude said
Resolution and framerate will always compromise graphics.
Demons Souls look awesome at 1440p 60 fps? Imagine at 1080p 30 fps
Personally Im fine with the recent trend of "4k 30fps or 1440p 60 fps". Its a win for both groups, fidelity and framerate.
Razvedka
Banned
I don't understand how this is even a debate. Yes, obviously doubling the frame rate reduces graphical fidelity. Similarly, jacking up the resolution will too. It's all pros/cons, nothing is free.
The closest thing to free is DLSS.
I understand where the 60fps people are coming from, but 30fps is fine to me for anything on console that's not competitive online. If feasible, devs should pull a R&C and add different fps/resolution modes. For instance, maybe something like 2k/60fps, 4k/30fps.
The closest thing to free is DLSS.
I understand where the 60fps people are coming from, but 30fps is fine to me for anything on console that's not competitive online. If feasible, devs should pull a R&C and add different fps/resolution modes. For instance, maybe something like 2k/60fps, 4k/30fps.
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
I'm not crazy person or have oversensitive eyes to say 30FPS is "unplayable", far from it! I can play and enjoy games runs at 30FPS just fine but given the choice between better graphics or better performance, I will always choose performance over graphics.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Totally.
A few different modes to cover 30 and 60 should suffice. Console gamers arent looking for 1000 different slider combinations like a PC game. But giving console gamers a couple choices shouldnt be hard at all. Some games even did it for Pro/One X.
Lokaum D+
Member
Spaceman292
Banned
Wow. So you people do exist.
M.W.
Member
This. Shut the fuck up about 30fps, it's dogshit.
LaughingStock
Member
Some games are playable at 30 fps. But given the option, I'll always choose higher fps over graphical fidelity.
Huggers
Member
Ah Bayonetta PS3, how I've missed thee.
coffinbirth
Member
Depends on the hardware...depends on the software, lol.
Low Moral Fibre
Member
Decided that I'm not buying anything now that is 30fps only - I don't care if it has a billion GOTY awards, no 60fps no buy. I tried to play Shadow of War the other day and I thought my console was broken.
It was ok when I was playing half 30fps games, half 60fps games but now I'm playing half 60fps games and half 144fps games 30fps feels disgusting.
I'll just wait for a PC or next-next-gen version and I'm fine with that.
It was ok when I was playing half 30fps games, half 60fps games but now I'm playing half 60fps games and half 144fps games 30fps feels disgusting.
I'll just wait for a PC or next-next-gen version and I'm fine with that.
Silent Viper
Banned
Going for 4k hurts more than 60fps.
Where the fuk is AI upscaling on consoles?
Where the fuk is AI upscaling on consoles?
NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
True. Which is why cherrypicking Star Fox to prove the point is disingenuous.
Still, 60fps was the target for 2D games. And while lag was very common on consoles such as the NES, on the SNES already it was often the product of bad programming (a lot of early Capcom games had lag that would probably not be there had they come out a year or two later), and it could be argued it was a deliberate choice in busy games such as Gradius 3, where it made some parts somewhat easier. The same could be said for Metal Slug.
3D is where framerates dropped almost as a standard. But we had CRTs and you'd be lucky to have a screen larger than 21", so the effects on motion and clarity would be mitigated.
30 fps on giant sample-and-hold screens is not pretty, and the perceived responsiveness of the game is noticeably lower at 30fps vs 60. I don't think it's a good compromise just to have native 4K.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
60fps needs to be the standard now and let games advance based on that. If not we are all fucked and we will lose more and more numbers to pc Where people will be playing at 400fps.
if a game is made from the ground up with 60fps in mind it should still be able to look amazing.
if a game is made from the ground up with 60fps in mind it should still be able to look amazing.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I have always been fine with 30, but I must admit I've been loving that all PS5 games I've played so far have had 60fps modes. It's hard to go back for sure.
But yes, of course 60fps limits what the game can do both visually and in other ways. So far most games are cross-gen and mainly limited by what the CPUs in the previous gen consoles are capable of. Or rather, the low CPU requirements of these games is why they can so easily be run at 60fps on the new consoles. We haven't seen any games really push the new console CPUs yet, and it remains to be seen what will happen if/when they do. Obviously you can do more on the CPU side as well if you have twice the time to work on it. I guess stuff like AI is feasible to decouple from rendering, but if a dev decides to go all in on advanced physics it might be a different story.
But yes, of course 60fps limits what the game can do both visually and in other ways. So far most games are cross-gen and mainly limited by what the CPUs in the previous gen consoles are capable of. Or rather, the low CPU requirements of these games is why they can so easily be run at 60fps on the new consoles. We haven't seen any games really push the new console CPUs yet, and it remains to be seen what will happen if/when they do. Obviously you can do more on the CPU side as well if you have twice the time to work on it. I guess stuff like AI is feasible to decouple from rendering, but if a dev decides to go all in on advanced physics it might be a different story.
That's not the point I'm trying to make.
You can run a game at 60 frames per second. But by adding stuff like RT you could drop the frame rate by 20 frame as a example. You don't get RT for free! You're not going to get necessarily double the graphics by cutting the frame in half.
We're already not seeing a massive difference in terms of fertility between 30 and 60 anyway. Using Ratchet and Clank I can't see any difference in terms of fertility between 30 and 60. But I can damn well see the smoothness in motion.
Whitecrow
Banned
People disregarding the gamey feel of 60 fps and that not everyone wants it aaall the time, should stop proyecting their mental issues and let those who are fine with 30fps be and have the option.
Who the fuck do you thik you are to tell what is right for others to enjoy? Grow up some IQ pls.
Who the fuck do you thik you are to tell what is right for others to enjoy? Grow up some IQ pls.
Paasei
Member
You tell them to stick with 30fps and make the games more "immersive" because of it, no? If they'd keep doing this, you continue to limit their capability of improving performance rather than just looking good.
There's no valid reason to prefer 30fps over 60fps, whatsoever. You being fine with it, is cool. But I don't believe anyone when they say they think it's better than a higher framerate.
Just to make sure: I am NOT saying that 30fps is unplayable, but I am saying that 60fps is always better, should it be available.
GymWolf
Member
And we are done.
The artful mincer
Member
All things being equal of course I would take 60fps although I'm perfectly happy with a stable 30fps accept for super fats games like Doom Eternal.
However I would happily sacrifice higher framerate for_
better physics
better ai
More enemies/npcs
Bigger more complex enemies (I.e shadow of the Colossus)
Destructible environments
bigger, dense and more complex level design.
For some reason Framerate whore's seem to think that resolution only affects the framerate but all of the above are important to gameplay and can effect the framerate.
The best example I can think of is MGS2 to MGS3. MGS3 is a much better game than 2 likely because the reduced framerate allowed Kojima to be more ambitious in other areas.
Also framerate can eventually be resolved with better hardware where as shit like level design can't
However I would happily sacrifice higher framerate for_
better physics
better ai
More enemies/npcs
Bigger more complex enemies (I.e shadow of the Colossus)
Destructible environments
bigger, dense and more complex level design.
For some reason Framerate whore's seem to think that resolution only affects the framerate but all of the above are important to gameplay and can effect the framerate.
The best example I can think of is MGS2 to MGS3. MGS3 is a much better game than 2 likely because the reduced framerate allowed Kojima to be more ambitious in other areas.
Also framerate can eventually be resolved with better hardware where as shit like level design can't
Whitecrow
Banned
Yes there is. Maybe not for you, but for others there are valid reasons.
Anyways, my complain is about people wanting the option removed. Thats just bullshit. It will never happen, and it should never happen in first place.
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
most people care about graphics over framerate. its only on internet forums where thats not the case
Armorian
Banned
30FPS with high res and/or RT should always be an OPTION. Devs need to target 60 for their performance modes and THEN make eye candy 30FPS modes.
60FPS is objectively better so yeah opinions and stuff but people preferring 30FPS are WRONG.
COD games are 60FPS since PS3 era for a reason...
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Actually the reverse is true.
Super-accurate ray traced reflections and the like are the true preserve of the videogame nerd.
Actually have a think about what most casual gamers play. They're virtually all 60fps and a lot of them look like shit.
They might not KNOW that frame rate is why their Warzone matches are nice and fast and smooth, but they'd definitely NOTICE if that frame rate was suddenly cut in half.
The artful mincer
Member
If it's a matter of just reducing the resolution or other graphical feature's then fine I agree. (Although RT can affects gameplay as it gives you more spatial awareness)
The issue is you don't know what else is being left on the dev cutting floor to get that framerate.
Take Shadow of the Colossus long held to be classic but rightly criticized for not being able to hold even 20 frames on PS2. My question is what would the game have been if it tried to hold 30 frames or even 60? Would the Colossi have been as big, complex and detailed would the land have been as vast and majestic? Would it still be a classic if the Colossi had to be heavily comprised just to meet the framerate?
I not a dev so I'm just guessing but I think it would have been an entirely different game had it been a 60fps. Keep in mind that it took 2 generations until it could hit 60 without compromise's.
Like I mentioned Low Framerate can eventually be solved with better hardware but if the Colossi were much smaller and less complex they would be like that forever.
While it's great that developers are offering more choice's with framerate and resolution nowadays I imagine it requires more resources so MANDATING all devs must a have a 60fps option is piling even more work on games that are already taking too long to make.
ZywyPL
Banned
Not really, all 30FPS games are being dropped or forgotten once finished, whereas 60FPS titles are the ones being played for years, be it shooters, racers, fighting games, sport titles etc. So while the graphics do make the first impression and drive the initial "wow" factor, they fade away rather soon and then that it's all about the gameplay, which is directly impacted by the framerate.
Whitecrow
Banned
They arent, you just dont see people playing them because they have no multiplayer,
I'm sure it halts the graphical improvements of next gen a bit, if you don't count the massive increase in fluidity that 60 fps gives as as having to do with graphics. For me, this is the first time in a long while that I'm actually finding myself gaming more and more on my PS5 compared to my PC. I could never go back to mostly 30 fps. Tried that mode out in Miles Morales, Demon's Souls and Ratchet and Clank, and it was borderline unplayable. Then again games like TLOU2 does 30 fps well enough.
Short answer: Probably a little, but it's worth it.
Short answer: Probably a little, but it's worth it.
