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[64gigabyteram]

just to clarify I am OK with 30fps retro console games

me too!
PS1 games actually oddly enough feel more smooth at 30fps than their PS2 30fps counterparts. I think it's cuz of the lower resolution. Games at higher resolutions feel far more natural running at 60fps than something at 240p running at 60. it still runs and plays better, but with 240p i could care less about a game running at 30.
at 1440p the difference between 30 and 60 is the difference between 2 hours of game time and 4.
...or maybe it's because the games ran at a higher framerate than what we thought, idk

 

[StateofMajora]

me too!
PS1 games actually oddly enough feel more smooth at 30fps than their PS2 30fps counterparts. I think it's cuz of the lower resolution. Games at higher resolutions feel far more natural running at 60fps than something at 240p running at 60. it still runs and plays better, but with 240p i could care less about a game running at 30.
at 1440p the difference between 30 and 60 is the difference between 2 hours of game time and 4.
...or maybe it's because the games ran at a higher framerate than what we thought, idk

That's not how it works lol. Well, it is the case sometimes when a game has less animation frames, lower fps will look better. For example, Majora's mask animates much smoother than say uncharted 4 would at 20fps

I just meant that since there was an excuse for 30fps back in the day, even on PS3/360 (and PS4 unfortunately because of the shit cpu) I can still enjoy them if there is no other option. You can adjust your eyes.

Exception being, I absolutely cannot adjust on OLED with 30fps lol, shit is terrible.

I absolutely will not buy any PS5 game that is only 30fps. Should never happen tbh, or at least there should be a PC version available that runs at 60 without issue. For Nintendo switch 2 l, there won't be an excuse either.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

i think 1440p looks soft too, but the difference between it and 1080p is that 1080p looks like fucking watercolors while 1440p looks like a regular image. 4k is crisp but you mainly want it for videos and movies and not games

Name a movie shot in real 4K.

FYI, most movies are shot and edited in 1080p because it's faster and easier to render for VFX and such. Then, the movie is upscaled to 4K for the UHD release.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

That's not how it works lol. Well, it is the case sometimes when a game has less animation frames, lower fps will look better. For example, Majora's mask animates much smoother than say uncharted 4 would at 20fps

I just meant that since there was an excuse for 30fps back in the day, even on PS3/360 (and PS4 unfortunately because of the shit cpu) I can still enjoy them if there is no other option. You can adjust your eyes.

Exception being, I absolutely cannot adjust on OLED with 30fps lol, shit is terrible.

I absolutely will not buy any PS5 game that is only 30fps. Should never happen tbh, or at least there should be a PC version available that runs at 60 without issue. For Nintendo switch 2 l, there won't be an excuse either.

I don't agree with this thinking. We haven't even seen anything that takes full advantage of the PS5 hardware yet (except for the Matrix, but that's 30fps understandably).

Somehow, we aren't even out of the cross-generation phase yet. 99% of the games releasing these days are also coming out on last gen machines, meaning the game is gimped by needing it to run on last gen.

Once we start seeing games DESIGNED ON next gen, then we'll see every ounce of the hardware used up quicker than a quick thing.

 

[rofif]

Name a movie shot in real 4K.

FYI, most movies are shot and edited in 1080p because it's faster and easier to render for VFX and such. Then, the movie is upscaled to 4K for the UHD release.

Not anymore. For last years, even heavy CGI movies are shot in 1440p and upscaled to 4k.
But some are in downright 4k without any upscaling. Even CGI heavy movies but most are still not.
But still - In a movie, even 1080p vs 4k is not that huge. It is a difference but not as much as in video games.
That's because, even 1080p movie is "scaled down" form ground truth tape. No aliasing and so on.

 

[Gamer79]

Not anymore. For last years, even heavy CGI movies are shot in 1440p and upscaled to 4k.
But some are in downright 4k without any upscaling. Even CGI heavy movies but most are still not.
But still - In a movie, even 1080p vs 4k is not that huge. It is a difference but not as much as in video games.
That's because, even 1080p movie is "scaled down" form ground truth tape. No aliasing and so on.

Big Hero 6 was shot in total 4k. It's rare but does happen.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Big Hero 6 was shot in total 4k. It's rare but does happen.

Big Hero 6 took 199 million core hours to render. That's 8.3 million days. That's 22.7 thousand years.

 

[StateofMajora]

I don't agree with this thinking. We haven't even seen anything that takes full advantage of the PS5 hardware yet (except for the Matrix, but that's 30fps understandably).

Somehow, we aren't even out of the cross-generation phase yet. 99% of the games releasing these days are also coming out on last gen machines, meaning the game is gimped by needing it to run on last gen.

Once we start seeing games DESIGNED ON next gen, then we'll see every ounce of the hardware used up quicker than a quick thing.

Oh I didn't say there won't ever be 30fps games on PS5, just that there's no good reason and that I won't be buying them. Thankfully I have a PC though.

I do think there's a very strong chance that the optional 60fps modes become the norm even after cross gen dies, however.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Oh I didn't say there won't be 30fps games on PS5, just that there's no good reason and that I won't be buying them. Thankfully I have a PC though.

Why isn't there a good reason? What if the reason was mind blowing physics simulations, animations, ai and advanced realtime lighting?

 

[StateofMajora]

Why isn't there a good reason? What if the reason was mind blowing physics simulations, animations, ai and advanced realtime lighting?

Out of those things, only physics, if used for a meaningfully impactful gameplay mechanic could possibly be a good reason. And actually, I'd like that if there's a PC version that runs faster. Like a hulk game where the physics are like nothing we have seen.

All I'm saying is, I would not be buying the 30fps console version.


AI is never going to get better than games we have had in the past because it would be too hard.

More graphics! Is a terrible terrible reason for sticking with 30fps for this interactive medium.

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

Out of those things, only physics, if used for a meaningfully impactful gameplay mechanic could possibly be a good reason. And actually, I'd like that if there's a PC version that runs faster. Like a hulk game where the physics are like nothing we have seen.

All I'm saying is, I would not be buying the 30fps console version.


AI is never going to get better than games we have had in the past because it would be too hard.

More graphics! Is a terrible terrible reason for sticking with 30fps for this interactive medium.

Then why have 30fps games existed in the past if graphics don't matter?

 

[Beechos]

This 60fps/4k push is the perfect excuse devs need to put less effort into creating higher quality assets, animation, physics, Ai, worlds, etc.

 

[StateofMajora]

Then why have 30fps games existed in the past if graphics don't matter?

Some for technical limitations, some for eye candy.

One can reasonably say that hardware technical limitations are low enough now to not be a good excuse, and seeing how detailed current lighting systems can be at 60/120fps currently... Yeah, 30fps is just stupid.

Even if a 120fps mode significantly hinders the look of a game on console, I'd like for it to be an option anyway so 120fps can start being properly supported, because we need it.

If you really want a game at 30fps where you're just walking down some super photo realistic hallway, why the hell aren't you just watching a movie?

I'm glad some of you are extremely insensitive to stutter, but 30fps is really choppy.

 

[64gigabyteram]

Then why have 30fps games existed in the past if graphics don't matter?

i'd like to see you try making a 60fps 3d game on the PS1 (that isn't tekken or any fighting game)
here's an even harder one. Try making a 60fps N64 game.
my point here is that 30fps was REQUIRED for any PS1 game to even have the scope it did. it wasn't for graphics it was so the game could function. Once the PS2 came around, we saw more games that looked better than anything on PS1 and ran at buttery smooth 60

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

i'd like to see you try making a 60fps 3d game on the PS1 (that isn't tekken or any fighting game)
here's an even harder one. Try making a 60fps N64 game.
my point here is that 30fps was REQUIRED for any PS1 game to even have the scope it did. it wasn't for graphics it was so the game could function. Once the PS2 came around, we saw more games that looked better than anything on PS1 and ran at buttery smooth 60

You can't sit there and tell me there are no restrictions on current hardware. Yes, it's fast, but all that speed and memory can be used up quite quickly. Like in the case of Horizon Forbidden West and that's a cross-gen game. Fact is, we aren't done seeing 30fps games and the only reason we're getting 60 and higher is because these games were initially built around old hardware so of course the new hardware can ramp up the frame rate.

Once we start seeing true next-gen games, you're going to have a difficult choice to make. Do you want it to be fast, or look good.

 

[MikeM]

You can't sit there and tell me there are no restrictions on current hardware. Yes, it's fast, but all that speed and memory can be used up quite quickly. Like in the case of Horizon Forbidden West and that's a cross-gen game. Fact is, we aren't done seeing 30fps games and the only reason we're getting 60 and higher is because these games were initially built around old hardware so of course the new hardware can ramp up the frame rate.

Once we start seeing true next-gen games, you're going to have a difficult choice to make. Do you want it to be fast, or look good.

Don't forget that none if these games use primitive or mesh shaders which will save a bunch of hardware resources. I think given the VRR push that 60fps+ games will be here to stay along with options for 30fps in game menus. It wouldn't make sense to have it if it wasn't in developer's long term game planning.

 

[emmerrei]

The 4k resolution is wasting 4 times the resources of a 1080p game to display the same thing. And considering the new console are, in terms of TFlops, 4-5-6times better, you can easily determinate why new games looksjust a bit better (and cleaner thanks to 4k).