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[reinking]

Different is, they won't publish on the other console. Same with bungie in the future.

I'm not 100% convinced. Sony might take a different approach and let Bungie release on other consoles and/or PC. It only expands the market and makes those games bigger. I would not expect any to be on Game Pass though.

 

[onesvenus]

"I would back us to do [live-service games] ourselves, but when you have the potential to have a partner like Bungie who has been there, done it all before, learned the lessons and have got this wonderful, brilliant team who is there and has the potential to help us... we think we can take something that would have taken a certain number of years, and significantly decrease the time it will take to get it right."

Jimbo basically says they want Bungie to help PlayStation Studios make online service games.

What Jimbo is saying can be used as an answer when the "why didn't X spend the money growing internal studios instead of buying Y" questions pop up from time to time

 

[kingfey]

All these aquistitions will lead to 1 or 2 companies owning the vast majority of the creative talent and major games in the industry.

Monopolies and oligopolies result in the complete disempowerment of consumers.

Think about cable and phone companies and how horrible and powerless people are when dealing with their exploitative practices. Don't like one, well tough luck, the competitor is just as bad and they all conspire together to constantly increase prices while offering a peppercorn more.

In 10-15 years no one will own games, they'll all just be exlcusively available on a few companies' subscription services, which lets face it, every company is ultimately after. They want you paying annually what you would formerly pay for once. Similar to MS. Office.

I'm generally not a chicken little type of person, but all these aquistitions in the AAA industry is starting to look very much like the sky is falling.

Be ready to pay $30-40 a month to play AAA games and have no other options to just buy a game. If the average console owner buys 10 games in its life cycle (5/6 years), a subscription will have people buy the equivalent of 5-6 a year. We should end MS/Sony brand loyalty and resist this consolidation of the industry.

Pss..
Only few companies rule the world. They own most of everything in the world.

Dividend.com

The most popular brands in the world belong to these companies.

www.dividend.com

People argue against brands. But in reality bigger fish owns both of these brands.

Gaming would be that level in 10 years. It's why MS Is very worried about the big boys.

When they said Sony and Nintendo aren't their competitors, they weren't kidding. 70$b cash ended that argument.

We will see, what Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Apple would buy in these 2 years.

Embracer itself has 86+ studios. That is good start for these companies, since it gives them some games for their new console/cloud. With EA, take 2, or ubisoft their cloud gaming value would sky rocket.

Its scary how much success money brings. Xbox went from 5 studios to 30+ studios and insane IPs for $75b

 

[Auto_aim1]

Just heard of this now wtf.

 

[anothertech]

Daaaam. 2023 and 24 destiny content only on playstation. That's gonna piss some people off. Darkness powers playstation only hahahahaha

Hope new ip is coming more than anything.

 

[kingfey]

I'm not 100% convinced. Sony might take a different approach and let Bungie release on other consoles and/or PC. It only expands the market and makes those games bigger. I would not expect any to be on Game Pass though.

Sony want the pc market. They are very happy to keep things away from Xbox.

They made xbox life hell last gen. I doubt they will change their mind, and be nice. They made forspoken 2 year timed exclusive. That one is spitting on xbox.

 

[ethomaz]

The full PR doc for these that want to read.

January 31, 2022 (Pacific Standard Time) – Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC ("SIE"), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Group Corporation ("Sony"), today announced that it has entered into definitive agreements to acquire 100% of the shares of Bungie, Inc., an independent videogame developer in the United States. The total consideration of this transaction is 3.6 billion U.S. dollars, inclusive of purchase price and committed employee incentives, and is subject to customary working capital and other adjustments. This transaction is subject to certain closing conditions, including regulatory approvals.

…

Post-acquisition, Bungie will be an independent subsidiary of Sony Interactive Entertainment and run by its Board of Directors chaired by Pete Parsons and Bungie's current management team. The transaction is subject to certain closing conditions, including regulatory approvals.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/news/20220131_E.pdf

I though Bungie remained some ownership but it is 100% Sony… Bungie will work as an independent subsidiary… that trend to change over time and can take years to the fusion happens.

 

[kingfey]

Daaaam. 2023 and 24 destiny content only on playstation. That's gonna piss some people off. Darkness powers playstation only hahahahaha

Hope new ip is coming more than anything.

Wasn't destiny 1 Playstation exclusive and only come to xbox, when destiny 2 was out?

People are kinda expecting that treatment now.

Any future destiny would be pc/Sony from now on.

 

[thismeinteil]

Great get. And just like with Insomniac, Sony seems to push their teams to great success, so I'm expecting great things. Quality over quantity all day long.

And I'd say they can make a Halo killer, but I think halo has been slowly killing itself for a decade, now.

 

[kingfey]

The full PR doc for these that want to read.

January 31, 2022 (Pacific Standard Time) – Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC ("SIE"), a wholly-owned subsidiary of Sony Group Corporation ("Sony"), today announced that it has entered into definitive agreements to acquire 100% of the shares of Bungie, Inc., an independent videogame developer in the United States. The total consideration of this transaction is 3.6 billion U.S. dollars, inclusive of purchase price and committed employee incentives, and is subject to customary working capital and other adjustments. This transaction is subject to certain closing conditions, including regulatory approvals.

https://www.sony.com/en/SonyInfo/IR/news/20220131_E.pdf

So samething as Activision sale then. It's BR word, until it's approved. Once it's done, it's get in to the exclusive box.

 

[ChiefDada]

Considering IP rights are a business on to themselves and typically form a separate component to any business acquisition, you really should do some reading on a topic before posting about it. Short answer: no, you don't automatically take ownership of IPs when you buy a company unless the IPs are specifically sold as part of that acquisition.

Huh? Can you expand on your thoughts above? How are internally developed IPs separate from the company that make them? If I buy an entire company, that includes all assets and liabilities they own and owe. If a specific IP of the company isn't included, then I didn't buy the entire company.

 

[kingfey]

Great get. And just like with Insomniac, Sony seems to push their teams to great success, so I'm expecting great things. Quality over quantity all day long.

And I'd say they can make a Halo killer, but I think halo has been slowly killing itself for a decade, now.

The one that killed halo are the fans.

Fans have this unrealistic demand. It's hard to please them.

I worry, the day they retire master chief. There would uproar.

 

[Auto_aim1]

THIS IS A BAD FUCKING DEAL. Sony are you insane? They have no good IPs. 3.6 billion you dumb fuckers.

 

[reinking]

Sony want the pc market. They are very happy to keep things away from Xbox.

They made xbox life hell last gen. I doubt they will change their mind, and be nice. They made forspoken 2 year timed exclusive. That one is spitting on xbox.

You are probably right but I am expecting timed or content exclusivity. My thought is they are letting Bungie remain Bungie to let them publish in areas that Sony does not want the PlayStation brand being published.

 

[kingfey]

Huh? Can you expand on your thoughts above? How are internally developed IPs separate from the company that make them? If I buy an entire company, that includes all assets and liabilities they own and owe. If a specific IP of the company isn't included, then I didn't buy the entire company.

Sony owns Insomniac. Can't make any game under sunset Overdrive universe, until MS publishing deals ends.

Those type of deals, makes the ip useless.

MS bought rare. Donkey Kong went to Nintendo.

 

[ethomaz]

Considering IP rights are a business on to themselves and typically form a separate component to any business acquisition, you really should do some reading on a topic before posting about it. Short answer: no, you don't automatically take ownership of IPs when you buy a company unless the IPs are specifically sold as part of that acquisition.

Unless the IP is not in the name of the Bungie, that is not the case, all the IPs owned by Bungie are now owned by Sony.

It is not even a shared owner… it is 100% Sony.

 

[kingfey]

You are probably right but I am expecting timed or content exclusivity. My thought is they are letting Bungie remain Bungie to let them publish in areas that Sony does not want the PlayStation brand being published.

That might make sense. But for now, I am taking their words, like Phil words, during bethesda purchase.

We will know more about it, once the deal is done.

 

[darrylgorn]

Make Killzone Good Again.

 

[ethomaz]

Sony owns Insomniac. Can't make any game under sunset Overdrive universe, until MS publishing deals ends.

Those type of deals, makes the ip useless.

MS bought rare. Donkey Kong went to Nintendo.

Sony owns Sunset Overdrive even if the license to use and publish for a period of time are with another company.

In any case MS has the publishing rights just for the first game… any sequel or spinoff from the IP can be published by Sony that owns the IP.

You are mistaking ownership and license for publishing rights.

 

[ManaByte]

Sony owns Insomniac. Can't make any game under sunset Overdrive universe, until MS publishing deals ends.

Insomniac owns the Sunset IP. MS has publishing rights for the first game, but Insomniac can do a remaster or sequel if they wanted to. Fizzy was in Ratchet.

 

[MScarpa]

When Sony's acquisitions use very clear terms about exclusivity, it somehow doesn't mean anything. But when Phil says something clear enough about exclusives, his words are twisted and tortured until they somehow mean that Activision and Blizzard games will be on PS .

Just wait for Yurinka to show up.

 

[ZehDon]

Unless the IP is not in the name of the Bungie, that is not the case, all the IPs owned by Bungie are now owned by Sony.

It is not even a shared owner… it is 100% Sony.

Cool, share a link to the contract of sale where the IPs are specifically named transferred?

 

[kingfey]

Unless the IP is not in the name of the Bungie, that is not the case, all the IPs owned by Bungie are now owned by Sony.

It is not even a shared owner… it is 100% Sony.

Some IPs have contractual obligation. You needs 100% right to own them.

007 bond game by rare/Nintendo and the person who owns bond.

You need to own the publish rights, the code of the game, the characters, and the IP to fully own them.

Edit: Alan wake was owned by MS, until remedy bought it from MS.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

I will not be surprised if we are start getting back the content Bungie removed from D2. Content that was paid by the customer. That was th shittiest move from them. They even sell Forkasen expansion on steam now, knowing in 2 weeks will be removed.

For this i cannot trust Bungie.

The Forsaken campaign is free since December, you can hurry to finish it before they delete it when Witch Queen comes out at the end of the month.

The Forsaken pack that you see for sale is 3 exotics weapons, strikes and other stuff I don't remember. You will still have access to it.

I agree that they should make a huge standalone version of Destiny 2 with all the campaign and expansions. Maybe they can do it now with the help of Sony.

 

[ethomaz]

Some IPs have contractual obligation. You needs 100% right to own them.

007 bond game by rare/Nintendo and the person who owns bond.

You need to own the publish rights, the code of the game, the characters, and the IP to fully own them.

Publishing rights are different from IP ownership.
You can license the publishing rights to whatever you want… the IP ownership continue being yours until you sell it or it become public in 30 years or so.

Sony actually owns everything Bungie owned… and Bungie didn't have any licensed IP from other company in their hands.

 

[Auto_aim1]

You spend money to get IPs.

 

[kingfey]

Publishing rights are different from IP ownership.

Sony actually owns everything Bungie owned… and Bungie didn't have any licensed IP from other company in their hands.

Publishing rights affects the IPs. You cant publish the game, without publishing rights.

Clear example is sunset Overdrive. MS had publishing rights for that game. Sony couldn't anything due to that. Until the rights time runs out, Sony can't publish that game.

So the IP is generally useless without that right.

 

[ethomaz]

Publishing rights affects the IPs. You cant publish the game, without publishing rights.

Clear example is sunset Overdrive. MS had publishing rights for that game. Sony couldn't anything due to that. Until the rights time runs out, Sony can't publish that game.

So the IP is generally useless without that right.

Sony owns Sunset Overdrive IP.
They can do what they want with it… a new game, a sequel, a spinoff, use the characters in others games, etc etc etc.

MS just licensed the publishing rights to the first game for a time.

So even owning the source code of the first game they can't publish it in any other place unless MS accept it or the licensing of the publishing rights ends.

You are again confusing or trying to spin IP ownership with Publishing rights.

 

[kingfey]

Insomniac owns the Sunset IP. MS has publishing rights for the first game, but Insomniac can do a remaster or sequel if they wanted to. Fizzy was in Ratchet.

That is what I am talking. You need to make a new game for that IP.

You cant use the game, until the publishing right runs out.

Sometimes, you will lose the rights to publish that IP, if you are small devs. So you are forced to buy the rights.

 

[kingfey]

Sony owns Sunset Overdrive even if the license to use and publish for a period of time are with another company.

In any case MS has the publishing rights just for the first game… any sequel or spinoff from the IP can be published by Sony that owns the IP.

You are mistaking ownership and license for publishing rights.

Why would remedy buy the rights for Alan wake then?

 

[Kagey K]

Wasn't destiny 1 Playstation exclusive and only come to xbox, when destiny 2 was out?

People are kinda expecting that treatment now.

Any future destiny would be pc/Sony from now on.

No PS had marketing rights and a couple exclusive weapons and strikes.

It came out the same day on PS and Xbox.

 

[kingfey]

No PS had marketing rights and a couple exclusive weapons and strikes.

It came out the same day on PS and Xbox.

People made a big deal about destiny 1 on xbox, and those contents arriving the console late.
I thought it was a big major content.

 

[ethomaz]

Why would remedy buy the rights for Alan wake then?

Because they licensed the publishing rights to MS. Remedy always owned the IP but MS had the publishing rights.

They had to ask MS to self-publish the game on PC. Now they got the publishing rights back so they can publish it whatever they want.

That is exactly why Sony can't publish Sunset Overdrive without authorization of MS.

BTW both Destiny IP and publishing rights are in Bungie hands… that are now in Sony hands… when Sony bought Insomniac the Publishing rights were licensed to MS and that continue being true but the IP ownerships from Insomniac are Sony now.

 

[Kagey K]

People made a big deal about destiny 1 on xbox, and those contents arriving the console late.
I thought it was a big major content.

People were mostly pissed off at the strike, only because it fucked fans on both systems. It couldn't come up in the weekly strikes (or Nightfall strikes) because it wasn't on both systems and Bungie kept system parity on the weeklies, meaning it ended up being basically wasted content.

 

[Auto_aim1]

Bungie is simply not loyal. They just want someone to pay for their shit while they ship all unfinished stuff. When their owner is unhappy they pack their bags and leave.

 

[Dolomite]

Wild not square? Not blue point? I mean a get is a get but this feels like when MS bought rare . Good I guess but am I excited...i guess.
It makes a lot less of an impact reading this in 2022 then in 2005 though.
Now Please task Bungie to make a new IP

 

[Black_Stride]

Surprised Tencent wasn't the buyer.
I thought it was weird when Destiny was pulled from Game Pass.



Btw.. lets be honest here. Comparing Activision to Bungie is silly. Warzone Mobile will be worth more than Bungie in its entirety.

Isnt Destiny 2 a free to play game?
Why would it be on Gamepass.

 

[RPS37]

I can't even tell you my gut reactions to this.

 

[ethomaz]

Wild not square? Not blue point? I mean a get is a get but this feels like when MS bought rare . Good I guess but am I excited...i guess.
It makes a lot less of an impact reading this in 2022 then in 2005 though.
Now Please task Bungie to make a new IP

Bluepoint is already a Sony's studio.

 

[kingfey]

Because MS licensed the publishing rights for it.

Why would they need the right for sequel then?

From your point of view, you said Sony can make a sequel. Why would remedy go and buy the publishing rights for that game, when they can just make new brand experience.

Publishing rights would pretty much affect the universe for that game. Remedy can use the character, but not that universe. Whether it's sequel or prequel.

Its why they bought the right of that game. To have complete ownership of Alan wake universe.

When companies sign these publishing rights, they kinda own the universe of that game, and anything related to that game. Not the character models. That belongs to the studio which makes the game.

 

[ethomaz]

Isnt Destiny 2 a free to play game?
Why would it be on Gamepass.

It is not a free to play game.
You can try a base game for free.

You still needs to pay around $70 per year to play actual content… it is basically to play it… if not you will be forever alone playing the base "free to play".

 

[ethomaz]

Why would they need the right for sequel then?

From your point of view, you said Sony can make a sequel. Why would remedy go and buy the publishing rights for that game, when they can just make new brand experience.

Publishing rights would pretty much affect the universe for that game. Remedy can use the character, but not that universe. Whether it's sequel or prequel.

Its why they bought the right of that game. To have complete ownership of Alan wake universe.

When companies sign these publishing rights, they kinda own the universe of that game, and anything related to that game. Not the character models. That belongs to the studio which makes the game.

That is not actually true.

Marvel owns Spider-Man.

Sony licensed the publishing rights for Spider-Man games.

Sony doesn't own anything from Spider-Man… Marvel owns… actually Disney owns Spider-Man.

 

[Dolomite]

Blueprint is already a Sony's studio.

You're right, I always get confused with who made Demon souls vs dark souls vs elden ring ect even though I'm a fan of the series

 

[kingfey]

People were mostly pissed off at the strike, only because it fucked fans on both systems. It couldn't come up in the weekly strikes (or Nightfall strikes) because it wasn't on both systems and Bungie kept system parity on the weeklies, meaning it ended up being basically wasted content.

Who fucks up content like that.

 

[Kagey K]

Isnt Destiny 2 a free to play game?
Why would it be on Gamepass.

The paid expansions were on Gamepass, and it's a pretty barebones game now without them, they are basically required content.

 

[BusierDonkey]

My thinking on this one is as follows:

Is Bungie, whose only games are Destiny and Destiny 2 (Halo belongs to MS, as do a bunch of ex-Bungie staff) and has only self-published one of those titles... kind of, worth half of the ENTIRETY of Zenimax Publishing who includes Bethesda Game Studios, Arkane, id Software, Machine Games, Tango Gameworks, Alpha Dog and Roundhouse Studios along with all their assets including publishing and distribution?

Is Destiny as big as half of all of those IPs and assets put together?

I found a video of Jim Ryan buying Bungie

 

[Kagey K]

Who fucks up content like that.

Bungle, oops I mean Bungie.

I mean they are the same company that vaults content people bought and paid for in expansions.

 

[ChiefDada]

Cool, share a link to the contract of sale where the IPs are specifically named transferred?

Ok, I get your confusion now.

The IP doesn't move; Bungie retains its corporate status. This is distinctly different from Activision. The IP stays on Bungies books. But Sony now owns all stock of Bungie. The IP doesn't need to transfer books for Sony to own 100% of the IP.

This is interesting for future transactions though. If Sony is willing to forego a good chunk of governance and management control to future targets in exchange for financial acquisition then this could be their way of leveling the M&A landscape with deep pocket players such as Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, etc.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

My thinking on this one is as follows:

Is Bungie, whose only games are Destiny and Destiny 2 (Halo belongs to MS, as do a bunch of ex-Bungie staff) and has only self-published one of those titles... kind of, worth half of the ENTIRETY of Zenimax Publishing who includes Bethesda Game Studios, Arkane, id Software, Machine Games, Tango Gameworks, Alpha Dog and Roundhouse Studios along with all their assets including publishing and distribution?

Is Destiny as big as half of all of those IPs and assets put together?

I found a video of Jim Ryan buying Bungie

Yeah, they are. Destiny is a much bigger IP than potentially anything in the Zenimax deal

They are also a huge studio with 1000+ employees

Different objectives though. You can't compare the two just from the lens of buying as many studios/employees as possible. That's not how this works

 

[Black_Stride]

It is not a free to play game.
You can try a base game for free.

You still needs to pay around $70 per year to play actual content… it is basically to play it… if not you will be forever alone playing the base "free to play".

So only the DLC costs money?
So....it is a free to play game.