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[luffie]

Unbalanced is such a subjective term in a non linear open world game. You steamroll some then get steamrolled and you call the game unbalanced.

Sometimes you forget that bosses have special defenses and affinities, while you keep on using the same skill and op gear you've found.

I steamrolled some bosses, and get steamrolled by 3 Putrid crystals because they are so strong against my slash and magic build. The bosses you find easy are damn hard for others.

Too easy? Don't summon. Too hard? use everything you've got from summon to perfume to physicks and you will make it too.

If anything is unbalanced, it's the bears. Fuck those bears.

 

[It's all in the wrist]

The balancing in this game is way off. I'd never complete it if there weren't a few cheap hordes of enemies to farm. The experience that the bosses give you for the amount of effort required is trivial.

 

[elliot5]

I only hit a wall in Crumbling Farum Azula and had to go grind and cheese with a mimic +10 to get through

 

[hlm666]

What annoys me the most is that the game is clearly tailored towards dex/int. This is the most effective build. Playing with a pure str character is very hard mode. And that already shows how unbalanced the game is.

I'm not sure how not being able to stack one stat makes it unbalanced. Your saying Dex/Int is OP or whatever, yet someone else is gonna say Dex/Fth is good, someones gonna say your both crazy Arc/Dex is easy mode. There are many viable builds in this game, it seems people just don't like having to play a game and maybe try things anymore.

There are bunch of fun builds on Fextralifes channel, with good explanations on what to use and why they work.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Fextralife/videos

 

[daveonezero]

Unbalanced is such a subjective term in a non linear open world game. You steamroll some then get steamrolled and you call the game unbalanced.

Sometimes you forget that bosses have special defenses and affinities, while you keep on using the same skill and op gear you've found.

I steamrolled some bosses, and get steamrolled by 3 Putrid crystals because they are so strong against my slash and magic build. The bosses you find easy are damn hard for others.

Too easy? Don't summon. Too hard? use everything you've got from summon to perfume to physicks and you will make it too.

If anything is unbalanced, it's the bears. Fuck those bears.

Exactly. I'd say something was wrong if different build worked the same.

Enemies have strength and weakness

 

[daveonezero]

I'm not sure how not being able to stack one stat makes it unbalanced. Your saying Dex/Int is OP or whatever, yet someone else is gonna say Dex/Fth is good, someones gonna say your both crazy Arc/Dex is easy mode. There are many viable builds in this game, it seems people just don't like having to play a game and maybe try things anymore.

There are bunch of fun builds on Fextralifes channel, with good explanations on what to use and why they work.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Fextralife/videos

I've seen strength builds one shot the int builds.

Most people aren't putting enough into vigor.

 

[March Climber]

Whole lot of people who need to git gud in this thread.

Here's a tip: take off the soreseal talismans. There's a reason you get one or two shot and it's not the balance of the game.

We got gud, beat the game, and now some of us acknowledge that no matter how good ER may be it has flaws, especially on a first playthrough. No game is perfect.

Some of you are still in the honeymoon period or still mid-game and this thread should honestly have been made a year from now.

 

[MiguelItUp]

With a game this size, things will always be changing. With each change, the balance will change, which will require more adjustments, etc. I feel like it's just a loop that will continue to happen.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Nahhh, it's too easy. They need to be careful about losing rep and start getting accused of pandering to casuals.

Maybe bump up Malenia difficulty a bit.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

I actually dislike the path From choose in their games in one mayor aspect . I liked the DeSo boss fights the most, they where not hard but every boss had a fun gimmick that you had to exploit. It was just interesting. The actual path to the boss area was the hard part.

With every game they made they slowly changed that. Made the bosses harder as d harder to a point that stopped being fun.

Maybe you can only come up with so many unique bosses that it was inevitable.

 

[Raven117]

Nah. It's fine. (Demons has the best balance on this as the normal enemies are harder and the bosses are somewhat Easier, but demos souls is focused more on the level itself more than any other souls game).

Bosses not playing by the games own logic for the player….. ugh…. I feel this time around it's worse than before.

The tracking around in 360 degrees, unlimited stamina, some attacked straight going through pillars or walls, input reading (like when you snag a health potion), all feel way worse.

Some bosses are hard and brillant. Others are absolutely trash. In this regard, the quality is imbalanced. They should cut the bosses down by half… make only a few truly great ones and have them be special. Now, every time I see that red healthbar come across the screen I just roll my eyes, try not to get irritated, and just think, awww shit, here we go again.

 

[Fess]

I started out thinking I'll never beat this game and that has really turned things around for me, I'm really just enjoying my time exploring and while doing that I've also managed to level up and get better gear and eventually beaten some bosses. I still don't think I'll ever beat it but I don't care, haven't beaten Ikaruga either and it's still one of my absolute fav shmups, just means there is still a reason to keep playing it.

 

[hlm666]

I've seen strength builds one shot the int builds.

Most people aren't putting enough into vigor.

and pve they do ok aswell with big damage and stagger locks, I think poise and ashes of war with massive poise bonuses to get the staggers started are overlooked aswell. But vigor is a big one, I made that mistake for a little while.

 

[captainpat]

Seeing people's health bars that are almost half the screen go down in a single enemy attack string is pretty crazy.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

Of course the game is "unbalanced" - that's one of the things making it good.

Every build has strengths and weaknesses, some builds have an overall easier time (I don't think anyone who knows the game will argue that mage style is not easy mode) and others have a harder time.
Players pick their own challenge level by the build the choose.

But all builds can beat the game in the hands of a decent player - that's all the balance the game needs.

The idea that all builds and build variants need to be equally capable in all situations is a casual's mindset.

 

[Graciaus]

If you aren't killing the regular mobs in 1-2 hits you probably aren't strong enough for whatever area you are in. Either in stats, weapon upgrades or just damage type.

Now the actual balance in the late game is off. Anyone who says otherwise is either a massive fan boy or hasn't made it that far. If you are getting wrecked early good luck later.

Spirit summoning is a gimmick and ruins the game.

 

[Keihart]

The bosses are just more competent to the usual player strategies so if you want a straight punch contest you gotta be way better at i than before, so yes, pushing your way throught it by brute force is harder than ever before mostly because of bosses and not so much regular enemies.

As far as balance goes, don't know if you can really argue too much about it besides the broken stuff in the favor of the player, there are just too many ways to brake the difficulty of the game that eventually you might come across one and is up to you to use it or not.

There are huge skill checks on the game but i wouldn't call those a balance problem but an incentive on exploration.

 

[Y0ssarian]

Elden Rang, and he said "git gud".

I'm joking. I didn't play the game long enough to find out

 

[tassletine]

If a boss in Elden Ring feels too hard, go somewhere else. Find loot, find bosses you can kill. After some time, go back and try with your more powerful character.

If you just follow the story path directly, you're going to have a very difficult time - as well as missing the main point of the game (exploration and character building).

Works with the first boss, but by the time you get to the Godskin Duo end you may well have seen all you want to see. That boss is very near the end and locked behind a story wall, so it should be balanced with the level that it's in. I had to grind 20 levels just so it wouldn't one shot me. That's bullshit.

The game is unbalanced and the plethora of items you can use pretty much proves that. It's not so much play as you want and play how From wants you to. You can practically hear the play testers screaming, then From inserting a new item allowing you to cheese.

Sekiro had a problem with this as well, but From have added much more Attrition to their formula here, grinding is one thing, but grinding in an open world is another.

They've always trolled the player, but in their last two titles I think really hurt the game. Game progress needs to be somewhat smooth. Somewhat. Not a weeks worth of play then suddenly stuck for hours/days.

I'd also add that during a time of prosperity (in the western world anyway) Souls games felt right, but during the chaos now, it feels pretty sadistic. That Miyazaki says he's not good at the games himself adds another layer to that. Meating out punishment, but unable to take it.

 

[rofif]

The bosses are just more competent to the usual player strategies so if you want a straight punch contest you gotta be way better at i than before, so yes, pushing your way throught it by brute force is harder than ever before mostly because of bosses and not so much regular enemies.

As far as balance goes, don't know if you can really argue too much about it besides the broken stuff in the favor of the player, there are just too many ways to brake the difficulty of the game that eventually you might come across one and is up to you to use it or not.

There are huge skill checks on the game but i wouldn't call those a balance problem but an incentive on exploration.

Infinite stamina, delays, surprise stun lock kill combos and the worst input reading in from game.
And then they repeat many of them.
This game may be hard and it is much easier for ng + so this proves player got gud. But it can get very irritating

 

[rofif]

I actually dislike the path From choose in their games in one mayor aspect . I liked the DeSo boss fights the most, they where not hard but every boss had a fun gimmick that you had to exploit. It was just interesting. The actual path to the boss area was the hard part.

With every game they made they slowly changed that. Made the bosses harder as d harder to a point that stopped being fun.

Maybe you can only come up with so many unique bosses that it was inevitable.

I feel it man. I was having so much fun in sekiro. Exploration and enemies did not prepared you for bosses though. But I prevailed and it clicked after guardian ape… only to never beat ishin. Wtf.

Same with kos but I did Gael no problem

 

[nemiroff]

I ignored a lot of bosses in the beginning. Now going back to them with a strong character I slice through them like a warm knife through butter.. You kinda choose your own difficulty in this game... Well, not always, but often..

 

[Bartski]

People really do drink that "GIT GUD" Kool-Aid so much they don't even realize how into it they are.

Leveling up will NOT nullify the surprise 1-2 hit kills bosses do. These are the issues we're talking about here.

lmao if just leveling up is how you expect to nullify those maybe that's why you're having issues
Here is how you nullify those - you learn the pattern and DON'T GET HIT.

Protip: Shoot at it until it dies.

 

[SJRB]

What annoys me the most is that the game is clearly tailored towards dex/int. This is the most effective build. Playing with a pure str character is very hard mode. And that already shows how unbalanced the game is.

This just isn't true. No matter how balanced a game is, there's always a *best* build. That doesn't mean that the less favorable builds are unbalanced.

I'm doing pure strength and it's very doable. Especially with Spirit ashes, literally designed to aid you when you're struggling.

 

[tassletine]

Nah. It's fine. (Demons has the best balance on this as the normal enemies are harder and the bosses are somewhat Easier, but demos souls is focused more on the level itself more than any other souls game).

Bosses not playing by the games own logic for the player….. ugh…. I feel this time around it's worse than before.

The tracking around in 360 degrees, unlimited stamina, some attacked straight going through pillars or walls, input reading (like when you snag a health potion), all feel way worse.

Some bosses are hard and brillant. Others are absolutely trash. In this regard, the quality is imbalanced. They should cut the bosses down by half… make only a few truly great ones and have them be special. Now, every time I see that red healthbar come across the screen I just roll my eyes, try not to get irritated, and just think, awww shit, here we go again.

One of the things that most irritates me about the bosses is how they are resused as well, making something that was once special feel cheap. I know it's there to make you feel overpowered, but they are often so easily dispatched it just feels hollow. In Dark Souls they reused the Capra demon (etc) to this end, but here it's sub bosses and it doesn't work. It's just disappointing.

 

[tassletine]

Honestly Froms technical limitations become more apparent each game.

The games fights and design are spectacle first, technically sound second. So many cool attacks and moves for your character and enemies but that comes with so many being just busted whether too weak or strong in terms of strength. The boss designs are cool, but the movement and the camera just arent good enough to properly track everything. The open world means that balance is all out of whack. The enemy AI literally cant even handle summoning in a realistic way.

The game isnt graphically anything special, but the art design and spectacle of the world and encounters are top notch and it kinda overshadows everything else. And because of the developer people just brush of criticism as intended design

I agree. The awesome art direction, variety and level design are what makes this game special. The combat feels old and particularly janky, this time around, not even as good as the Demon Souls remake to be honest
.
The AI is broken on lots of levels, sometimes the bosses just fly off attacking where you were 5 seconds previously and there's so much immersion breaking, it can be difficult to get into any sort of flow, since that dance is broken so often.

 

[tassletine]

People really do drink that "GIT GUD" Kool-Aid so much they don't even realize how into it they are.

Leveling up will NOT nullify the surprise 1-2 hit kills bosses do. These are the issues we're talking about here.

Of course it does, level your health bar up enough and you can take anything.
That's the only way I got past the Godskin duo. I traditionally play these games around 15-20 health but I can't this time and that annoys me. I want to be using reactions and my own skill, not tanking or relying on shitty AI summons.

By the end I had a 38 health bar and with most of the late bosses, they hit you once, reducing your health to under 50% meaning you have to chug estus. If you have a large health bar that's not the case.
You not only start with more health but with a huge health bar you can better guage when to use estus and it doesn't go to waste.

 

[j0hnnix]

It is really weird.
nicely explained here. 3min he touches on balance

 

[Swift_Star]

I'm not sure how not being able to stack one stat makes it unbalanced. Your saying Dex/Int is OP or whatever, yet someone else is gonna say Dex/Fth is good, someones gonna say your both crazy Arc/Dex is easy mode. There are many viable builds in this game, it seems people just don't like having to play a game and maybe try things anymore.

There are bunch of fun builds on Fextralifes channel, with good explanations on what to use and why they work.

https://www.youtube.com/c/Fextralife/videos

fth spells are not even close in damage and efficiency to int spells. It's not even in the same league.

 

[Swift_Star]

This just isn't true. No matter how balanced a game is, there's always a *best* build. That doesn't mean that the less favorable builds are unbalanced.

I'm doing pure strength and it's very doable. Especially with Spirit ashes, literally designed to aid you when you're struggling.

It isn't. Not even remotely close to doable. Not even with spirit ashes. I finished the game with a pure str build and it felt terrible.
Bosses that keeps running away from you and makes you run around after them deplets your stamina with pure str builds and takes a very long time to defeat. while int builds can just stand there and cast magic. How is this comparable or doable? Makekith with a pure str build is hell.
When a build is very easy and another is very hard, the game is unbalanced. A balanced game would cater to all builds and this doesn't.

 

[Swift_Star]

Of course it does, level your health bar up enough and you can take anything.
That's the only way I got past the Godskin duo. I traditionally play these games around 15-20 health but I can't this time and that annoys me. I want to be using reactions and my own skill, not tanking or relying on shitty AI summons.

By the end I had a 38 health bar and with most of the late bosses, they hit you once, reducing your health to under 50% meaning you have to chug estus. If you have a large health bar that's not the case.
You not only start with more health but with a huge health bar you can better guage when to use estus and it doesn't go to waste.

It doesn't. Malekith can one hit kill you even with 50 vig. As can Elden beast.

 

[Ogbert]

Playing mage can be a little tricky.

It swings between faceroll and brick wall.

 

[Swift_Star]

Biggest problem with Elden Ring and to an extend Dark Souls 3 is that From is making Bloodborne enemies and bosses to Dark Souls character movement and moves.
Why don't they just make the character move and reacts like in Bloodborne since that's what the enemies are designed to is beyond me.

 

[Guilty_AI]

 

[March Climber]

Of course it does, level your health bar up enough and you can take anything.
That's the only way I got past the Godskin duo. I traditionally play these games around 15-20 health but I can't this time and that annoys me. I want to be using reactions and my own skill, not tanking or relying on shitty AI summons.

By the end I had a 38 health bar and with most of the late bosses, they hit you once, reducing your health to under 50% meaning you have to chug estus. If you have a large health bar that's not the case.
You not only start with more health but with a huge health bar you can better guage when to use estus and it doesn't go to waste.

But guys, that isn't what J jaysius is trying to say. Needing more than 50 vigor for a first playthrough to survive that two to three hit lifebar-killing combo from a late game enemy is what's wrong.

 

[Raven117]

Playing mage can be a little tricky.

It swings between faceroll and brick wall.

Yup. Then you just go grind, do an azur comet build, and one hit kill your way to victory.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Needing more than 50 vigor for a first playthrough to survive that two to three hit lifebar-killing combo from a late game enemy is what's wrong.

Why?

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

The end game boss rush is definitely hard, but the amount of whining in this thread is really excessive. It's like people have never played Souls before.

Of course not every build is similarly overpowered. In DS1 strength builds were wild, you could just face tank bosses. In this game strength builds are comparatively weaker than int or bleed builds. In Demon's and this game int is super good, in DS3 int was pretty bad. This is not new. If you're mad that you didn't pick an easy mode build just respec.

And for fuck's sake get to 60 vigor and take off your soreseal. The endgame is not balanced around 35 vigor or whatever you're running.

 

[Punished Miku]

The end game boss rush is definitely hard, but the amount of whining in this thread is really excessive. It's like people have never played Souls before.

Yeah that must be it. The series thats been virtually the same since 2009. No one on Neogaf has played them before. Im just glad that you finally got to the bottom of it.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

People have clearly played Souls before, but they've forgotten what the series is like. Not every build is equally viable in PvE. If you're having trouble you should get your HP stat to the softcap. This is basic stuff that people in this thread are not understanding.

 

[kevm3]

The 'git gud' stuff is nonsense this time around. The bosses are all designed around summoning and just about all the bosses can nearly one shot you with super combos and unlimited stamina and in order to beat them solo, you need to spam parry, be overleveled, have some cheese build or just suffer by poking with the tiny attack windows you are given.

They make the bosses ultra cheesy, especially if you are melee. They can input read, autotrack, bust through your stamina bar with super long combos, often one shot you. The bosses aren't really 'fun' to fight , especially if you are trying to solo them. They are a slog if you want to solo. Otherwise, you just need to summon a tank, likely the mimic tear, let the boss focus on them and just wail away. Not really fun.

 

[nkarafo]

Sim

Nah. Boss two/three shotting high vigor characters scream lack of balance and cheap difficulty.
Bosses shouldn't have endless combo streams that can one shot a 50 vig character.

Vigor isn't the only thing you have to rely on in order to tank more hits.

You can also increase your endurance so you can carry the heaviest armor without "heavy load" status. These can add some extra damage absorption.

There are also talismans that reduce physical/magic damage and they stack with other damage reducing potions/flask mix.

If you can't avoid hits by rolling, invest on a great-shield and increase your guard stat. You can further improve your guard using a talisman and even tank hits without losing a single stamina point if you can spam a certain guard boost ash every few seconds. I have a tank character like this and even though there are still a couple of bosses i can't beat yet, nothing can 1 or 2 shot me. I can even absorb a full combo or a surprise grab attack. Not sure if you can achieve something like this with a spell user who can't carry a heavy shield and armor but i do hear how these characters are even more OP so i don't doubt they also have their own damage absorb ways.

Elden Ring also allows you to use a Spirit Ash NPC in most (not all) boss fights. Even though most of them will die very fast in a 1 vs 1 against a major boss, they are still good enough to distract him for you to pass a few free hits or to safely heal yourself mid-fight.

Another thing that helps are the Great Runes. Those are activated using "Rune Arcs" and are finite like the humanities in Dark Souls and you lose the one you have after you die but you still have many of them (i have like 30 mid-game) and i think are farmable. They can be a major buff against boss fights. I mean, one of them increase your stats for as much as 20+ levels or something. So you get extra HP, damage absorption and attack power on top of everything i mentioned above.

All these things stack. And i'm sure developers made the bosses hard enough so you can fight them fully buffed like this. If you go there with just "50 vigor" expecting you will survive, you are going to have a bad time. You need to stack/buff as much as you can.

The only thing that sucks about some bosses is how much of a damage sponge they are. Even with a fully upgraded 2H weapon attack. you can still chip away only a tiny amount of HP. So with some of them it becomes an endurance fight that can last too long.

 

[March Climber]

Why?

Name a previous Souls game that does this.

 

[lh032]

I personally feel like FROM always prefer INT build compared to faith build.
Alot of cool equips I found were INT scaled

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

The 'git gud' stuff is nonsense this time around. The bosses are all designed around summoning and just about all the bosses can nearly one shot you with super combos and unlimited stamina and in order to beat them solo, you need to spam parry, be overleveled, have some cheese build or just suffer by poking with the tiny attack windows you are given.

They make the bosses ultra cheesy, especially if you are melee. They can input read, autotrack, bust through your stamina bar with super long combos, often one shot you. The bosses aren't really 'fun' to fight , especially if you are trying to solo them. They are a slog if you want to solo. Otherwise, you just need to summon a tank, likely the mimic tear, let the boss focus on them and just wail away. Not really fun.

This is simply untrue and you're just being salty. I had a lot of trouble with some of the endgame bosses on my first playthrough because I didn't have enough points in vigor and because I was using Radagon's soreseal. On my second playthrough with 60 points in vigor, with dragoncrest greatshield talisman instead of soreseal, they're all fine. That's really all there is to it. You will not be oneshot by anything except Malenia's instadeath combo and Placidusax's arena nuke if you are 60 vig and are not using a talisman that lowers your defenses.

The only boss that has "tiny attack windows" is phase 2 Maliketh, and he has pretty low HP. Every other endgame boss gives you plenty of opportunities to wail on them.

What weapon are you using? If you feel your damage is low, consider dual wielding. Strength builds can benefit greatly from the powerstanced jumping L1 with dual heavy weapons (greatsword + ruins greatsword is a good combo), and dex builds can proc a lot more bleed if dual wielding. Melee builds are perfectly fine even against endgame bosses.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Name a previous Souls game that does this.

What does it matter if previous souls games did this or not? Different game, different rules.

 

[tassletine]

It doesn't. Malekith can one hit kill you even with 50 vig. As can Elden beast.

I think you can level up further than 50 dude. .....

 

[tassletine]

But guys, that isn't what J jaysius is trying to say. Needing more than 50 vigor for a first playthrough to survive that two to three hit lifebar-killing combo from a late game enemy is what's wrong.

Then I completely agree.

 

[Swift_Star]

The end game boss rush is definitely hard, but the amount of whining in this thread is really excessive. It's like people have never played Souls before.

Of course not every build is similarly overpowered. In DS1 strength builds were wild, you could just face tank bosses. In this game strength builds are comparatively weaker than int or bleed builds. In Demon's and this game int is super good, in DS3 int was pretty bad. This is not new. If you're mad that you didn't pick an easy mode build just respec.

And for fuck's sake get to 60 vigor and take off your soreseal. The endgame is not balanced around 35 vigor or whatever you're running.

I played all of them and this one is the only one that feels cheap. It's time you all accept Elden ring is an unbalanced games with badly designed boss. I'm happy the discourse of this game is finally changing and people in forums are coming to realize how badly and cheap the last boss fights are.
And I've never equipped the soreseal talisman lmao.
There shouldn't be an easy mode or a hard mode build. The existence of this just proves that game is utterly unbalanced.

 

[hlm666]

Biggest problem with Elden Ring and to an extend Dark Souls 3 is that From is making Bloodborne enemies and bosses to Dark Souls character movement and moves.
Why don't they just make the character move and reacts like in Bloodborne since that's what the enemies are designed to is beyond me.

If you feel you need this mobility you can add quickstep or bloodhound step to a weapon. It's a rather simple solution to fighting malenia and avoiding her aoe attack for instance. This argument is kinda like saying sekiro is too hard because you don't want to waste points on mikiri counter.

You can get the ash of war and the tool to apply it right at the start.