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[yamaci17]

Now this thread is going to devolve into an endless XSS vs PS5 price discussion...

XSS is fine, MS will be fine. You don't have to take everything about XSS like it's some sort of a personal attack towards you.

cant run away from the dreaded 300 bucks argument

 

[Riky]

but still, people waged huge wars to claim sx is the better console by %10-15 margin. but in the end, if we accept that the visual difference is not going to be noticeable, wouldn't that make the whole war irrelevant and useless?

Probably.

The difference is about 17% and they cost the same price, so maybe someone could see the difference in resolution but I don't think I could unless it's something like Hitman 3 on a 4k screen.
It comes down to what games you like, I like arcade racers and FPS games so from day one of Xbox they had me with Halo and PGR. Now I'm playing FH5 and Halo Infinite.
Other people like those story driven totally single player experiences which aren't for me personally but that's just personal taste.
I own both consoles regardless.

 

[SportsFan581]

Fair enough. I think Bloomberg said that the PS5 BOM was at around $450 but that included the UHD. So the $399 SKU is probably losing them $30 a pop so they obviously undershipped it. Even the pre-orders were roughly a 20-80 split according to bestbuy and they pretty much dropped that console after that because they would rather sell a console that gives them a $50 breathing room. I think thats the retailer cut so they were probably selling it at cost minus $10-20 for shipping and distribution.

I still think Sony shouldve done what MS did and aim for a $500 machine. The 448 GBps ram bandwidth is clearly unsufficient seeing as how games like HFW cannot downscale to 1440p to double the framerate. They shouldve gone with 520 GBps minimum and preferrably Microsoft's 556 gbps vram.

Who knows. From the 6050 series it looks like RDNA2 doesn't gain that much from a bandwidth increase, everything else being equal. Overall, I think the new consoles are a great value since we got the SSDs thrown in. They are hardly top flight GPUs, but console peasants can't expect that.

I'm just grateful that we have solid options still available for getting everything in one package. Here's to hoping the leaks regarding AMD raising prices on CPUs are untrue.

 

[THE DUCK]

Jason Arnold logs back into the forums after a year off, turns to his wife and say "hey, that dcmk7 guy on gaming age is still talking about what I said 2 years ago, long pause, says hmphh" and eats another bite of his bagel.

I think it may be time to let it go, dcmk7. In exchange I agree to forgive Ms and sony for lying to us about 4k 120hz and 8k. And I will give up chocolate for week, and I won't play random dice for 24 hours.

 

[Md Ray]

cant run away from the dreaded 300 bucks argument

Well, in my country the price difference is like $75 between a PS5 DE and XSS, so it makes a lot more sense to go with the PS5 instead and get massive boost to visual, image quality in a game like ME EE.

 

[SlimySnake]

Jason Arnold logs back into the forums after a year off, turns to his wife and say "hey, that dcmk7 guy on gaming age is still talking about what I said 2 years ago, long pause, says hmphh" and eats another bite of his bagel.

I think it may be time to let it go, dcmk7. In exchange I agree to forgive Ms and sony for lying to us about 4k 120hz and 8k. And I will give up chocolate for week, and I won't play random dice for 24 hours.

Nice to finally hear from Mrs. Arnold. Quick question: does he snore in his sleep?

 

[adamsapple]

cant run away from the dreaded 300 bucks argument

I mean, yeah you can't. $100 does make a difference to a lot of people.

 

[Lognor]

How is it anecdotal when I have direct proof? What would please you? Want their numbers so you can confirm directly? Think I'm making shit up to score points on a forum of strangers? You got me. Jesus Christ.

You clearly don't know what anecdotal evidence is. That's okay. Let me share the definition: "evidence in the form of stories that people tell about what has happened to them"

And I countered with my own anecdotal evidence that ran counter to your story. It's okay. It's fine. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm calling a spade a spade.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I use them and Eneba and Gamivo.

Thanks for the head ups. I had exclusively been using Cdkeys. Just bought Doom Eternal deluxe edition off Gamivo for $35.

 

[yamaci17]

Well, in my country the price difference is like $75 between a PS5 DE and XSS, so it makes a lot more sense to go with the PS5 instead and get massive boost to visual, image quality in a game like ME EE.

ps5 is still being sold for scalp prices over here so you would lose your mind if I told you the price difference between a series s and ps5/ps5 de

 

[OmegaSupreme]

You clearly don't know what anecdotal evidence is. That's okay. Let me share the definition: "evidence in the form of stories that people tell about what has happened to them"

And I countered with my own anecdotal evidence that ran counter to your story. It's okay. It's fine. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm calling a spade a spade.

Let me ask you this. Do you really think the S would sell as well if the x were readily available?

 

[Lognor]

Let me ask you this. Do you really think the S would sell as well if the x were readily available?

Let me do what I've already done and answer that question with a question: does it matter?

It's actually a rhetorical question so I'll answer it. No, no it doesn't matter.

Microsoft made a brilliant play with the series s, especially in light of the pandemic and supply shortages. They can't get enough series x consoles on the market, nor can Sony get another PS5s on the market. But the series s is widely available. And it's selling very well! Brilliant play! Ms probably foresaw all of this. Brilliant tacticians.

 

[yamaci17]

Let me ask you this. Do you really think the S would sell as well if the x were readily available?

x is readily available in our country (turkey)
more people choose S over X despite that (based on the friends i have. literally, i have at least 10 friends that have a series s. and only 2 friends that have a series x)
we're poor folks at this point so that's a contributing factor, mind you

but yes, x is casually, readily available to buy here lmao. and not even for scalp prices, just normal MSRP prices.

it depends on the country I guess. for here? series s definitely sells more. imagine being too broke that 2 of my engineer friends chose series s over series x

the conception that x needing 4k screen also stops more people from buying the x. most folks here had their 1080p screens from their previous PCs/consoles, so they see X as an expensive venture that would need them to buy an expensive 4K TV/screen so they go for series s instead, because that's the marketing niche (btw, i only talk down series s in these forums. in real life, i actually applaud and talk about how much goodie it provides for its price to people and don't discourage anyone from buying it )
there are also folks who are not serious about gaming but just want to have the new "hotness" and get a series s. my friend is one such example, he has a 4k screen to watch 4k netflix, and he bought series s anyways

 

[DarkMage619]

Now this thread is going to devolve into an endless XSS vs PS5 price discussion...

XSS is fine, MS will be fine. You don't have to take everything about XSS like it's some sort of a personal attack towards you.

You felt the need to defend the PS5 in a XSS concern thread but I'm the problem?

Nothing stopping you from simply ignoring the system you don't like right?

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Let me do what I've already done and answer that question with a question: does it matter?

It's actually a rhetorical question so I'll answer it. No, no it doesn't matter.

Microsoft made a brilliant play with the series s, especially in light of the pandemic and supply shortages. They can't get enough series x consoles on the market, nor can Sony get another PS5s on the market. But the series s is widely available. And it's selling very well! Brilliant play! Ms probably foresaw all of this. Brilliant tacticians.

I'll say again. It matters to the people who wanted an x. What's the harm in answering my question? Speculate. Or are just afraid to admit I'm correct?

 

[Lognor]

I'll say again. It matters to the people who wanted an x. What's the harm in answering my question? Speculate. Or are just afraid to admit I'm correct?

And ppl that bought the disc less ps5 it matters that they couldn't get the regular ps5. What's your point? You brought up this anecdotal evidence to suggest folks are widely "settling" for the xss. They're not.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

And ppl that bought the disc less ps5 it matters that they couldn't get the regular ps5. What's your point? You brought up this anecdotal evidence to suggest folks are widely "settling" for the xss. They're not.

Discless PS5 isn't nearly the same. It's the same specs minus a disc drive. You're still evading the question I see. It's fine. I don't understand why you're so opposed to admit the obvious.

 

[sircaw]

You felt the need to defend the PS5 in a XSS concern thread but I'm the problem?

Nothing stopping you from simply ignoring the system you don't like right?

Damn you guys are out in force today,

Second one looks like he has his ambassador jacket on

 

[Lognor]

Discless PS5 isn't nearly the same. It's the same specs minus a disc drive. You're still evading the question I see. It's fine. I don't understand why you're so opposed to admit the obvious.

Your point is that someone might buy a different product when the product they're primarily interested in, isn't available. So what? You're all over the place. The disc less ps5 is NOT the same as the ps5. If someone wants the ps5 but it's not available they might settle for the disc less version. Same with someone wanting the oled switch but getting the standard model.

What is your point? Making points no one disputes? Good job, guy!

 

[SportsFan581]

Damn you guys are out in force today,

At least the mods know how to boost the ad impressions. You just start a XSS thread and watch the pages fly by.

Statement from guilty participant.

 

[DarkMage619]

At least the mods know how to boost the ad impressions. You just start a XSS thread and watch the pages fly by.

Statement from guilty participant.

Budget consoles trigger some people. I'm sure the clicks are appreciated.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Your point is that someone might buy a different product when the product they're primarily interested in, isn't available. So what? You're all over the place. The disc less ps5 is NOT the same as the ps5. If someone wants the ps5 but it's not available they might settle for the disc less version. Same with someone wanting the oled switch but getting the standard model.

What is your point? Making points no one disputes? Good job, guy!

Not at all. I've been consistent with my point the entire time. I said originally the S is probably selling so well simply because you can't get an x. This triggered you for some reason I can't figure out and here we are pages later. People have settled on the s. If they could get the x they would. All your whataboutisms won't change that. To be fair you've been consistent as well. Saying that "it doesn't matter" which is of course nonsense.

 

[Lognor]

Not at all. I've been consistent with my point the entire time. I said originally the S is probably selling so well simply because you can't get an x. This triggered you for some reason I can't figure out and here we are pages later. People have settled on the s. If they could get the x they would. All your whataboutisms won't change that. To be fair you've been consistent as well. Saying that "it doesn't matter" which is of course nonsense.

Again, you're speculating. It's not a fact that people that bought the series s wanted the series x. Your cute anecdotal evidence does not change that. Do not purport to say that it does.

And my point all along has been that it was a brilliant move by ms to make the series s. They foresaw the supply issues and made a console that would not be as affected. So if SOME people wanted a series x they may have gotten a series s instead because it was Available. Sony did not have the same foresight. There are no ps5 consoles available because Sony didn't plan for these supply issues. A huge oversight by Sony. A brilliant move by ms.

 

[Fafalada]

They foresaw the supply issues

Waaait a minute...

Are you telling me that Bill Gates really did create Covid with 5G? OMG it all makes so much sense now...

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Again, you're speculating. It's not a fact that people that bought the series s wanted the series x. Your cute anecdotal evidence does not change that. Do not purport to say that it does.

And my point all along has been that it was a brilliant move by ms to make the series s. They foresaw the supply issues and made a console that would not be as affected. So if SOME people wanted a series x they may have gotten a series s instead because it was Available. Sony did not have the same foresight. There are no ps5 consoles available because Sony didn't plan for these supply issues. A huge oversight by Sony. A brilliant move by ms.

Lmao. They foresaw the supply chain issues? How? Talk about speculation!

 

[SportsFan581]

Lmao. They foresaw the supply chain issues? How? Talk about speculation!

Not Covid related issues, that I don't see how they could predict. But, they would have an idea there was going to be contention for silicone and that the size of the XSX chip was going to leave them with fewer units than they would want. The XSS may have been a solution to that problem while also providing a great gateway to GP. Also acted as a safeguard to ensure they weren't going to be overpriced again.

 

[Lognor]

Lmao. They foresaw the supply chain issues? How? Talk about speculation!

Could be! Point stands, series s was a brilliant move by ms. Gotta give them that!

 

[dcmk7]

Jason Arnold logs back into the forums after a year off, turns to his wife and say "hey, that dcmk7 guy on gaming age is still talking about what I said 2 years ago, long pause, says hmphh" and eats another bite of his bagel.

I think it may be time to let it go, dcmk7. In exchange I agree to forgive Ms and sony for lying to us about 4k 120hz and 8k. And I will give up chocolate for week, and I won't play random dice for 24 hours.

Jason Arnold is alright in my book.

 

[adamsapple]

Right adamsapple ? Tell me where I am wrong.

Unfortunately unlike PS5 and SX they don't state what the average resolution on SS is most often. So there's no real way of knowing, but for the sake of simplicity we can assume it stays or hovers around the 1080p mark, as there are no intensive effects like RTGI ala Metro Exodus that can drop it that low.

Or if you want to take our boy ElAnalistaDeBits at his word, the common resolution is 1080p on the 60 FPS mode on SS.

DF also say the SS version averages around 1152p in the 60 FPS mode without stating both vertical and horizontal axis.

The resolution metrics are close and the big performance gap in favor of the tiny box still exists.

 

[Topher]

Unfortunately unlike PS5 and SX they don't state what the average resolution on SS is most often. So there's no real way of knowing, but for the sake of simplicity we can assume it stays or hovers around the 1080p mark, as there are no intensive effects like RTGI ala Metro Exodus that can drop it that low.

Or if you want to take our boy ElAnalistaDeBits at his word, the common resolution is 1080p on the 60 FPS mode on SS.

DF also say the SS version averages around 1152p in the 60 FPS mode without stating both vertical and horizontal axis.

The resolution metrics are close and the big performance gap in favor of the tiny box still exists.

Bullshit. They are not close at all.

PS5 Performance mode is between 1920x1080 and 3456x1944.
XSS Performance mode is between 1248x1080 and 2094x1178.

What is "close" is PS5's lower resolution and XSS's higher resolution.

Come on, dude. The "tiny box" gets slaughtered by PS5 even in the PS5's worst case scenario.

 

[THE DUCK]

Nice to finally hear from Mrs. Arnold. Quick question: does he snore in his sleep?

Yes but the beard is a built in noise reduction device so it's no big deal.

 

[adamsapple]

Bullshit. They are not close at all.

PS5 Performance mode is between 1920x1080 and 3456x1944.
XSS Performance mode is between 1248x1080 and 2094x1178.

What is "close" is PS5's lower resolution and XSS's higher resolution.

Come on, dude. The "tiny box" gets slaughtered by PS5 even in the PS5's worst case scenario.

I'm not sure how you can say "slaughtered" when they're playing around in roughly the same resolution ball park, maybe not the exact same, all the while Series S has a 10% performance advantage.

That's the opposite of slaughter.

 

[THE DUCK]

Jason Arnold is alright in my book.

Ronald, Arnold, what's the difference. Do we have deal? I think I'm offering some pretty serious sacrifices on my end. I'll throw in no mcdonalds for 1 year.

 

[Topher]

I'm not sure how you can say "slaughtered" when they're playing around in roughly the same resolution ball park, maybe not the exact same, all the while Series S has a 10% performance advantage.

That's the opposite of slaughter.

Because....facts:

PS5 low: 1920x1080
XSS high: 2094x1178

That is not "roughly the same resolution ball park".

And you were the one making entirely false claims that the two were the "same" in the first place.

 

[adamsapple]

Because....facts:

PS5 low: 1920x1080
XSS high: 2094x1178

That is not "roughly the same resolution ball park".

And you were the one making entirely false claims that the two were the "same" in the first place.

But that's what the VGTech video states, the Series (going by SX) are closer to their higher end almost all the time and PS5, for whatever reason, is closer to the lower bounds more. If the game/engine is better optimized for Series, it's common sense it would stick closer to the SS higher end more often.

And once again, why do you keep ignoring the performance difference ? A 10% performance gap with both of them in the 1080p ball park is the opposite of "slaughtering".

 

[Topher]

But that's what the VGTech video states, the Series (going by SX) are closer to their higher end almost all the time and PS5, for whatever reason, is closer to the lower bounds more. If the game/engine is better optimized for Series, it's common sense it would stick closer to the SS higher end more often.

And once again, why do you keep ignoring the performance difference ? A 10% performance gap with both of them in the 1080p ball park is the opposite of "slaughtering".

Where does the VGT video state that XSS is closer to the higher end "almost all the time" and the PS5 "is closer to the lower bounds more"? I don't care about you perceive as "common sense" as I find it very flawed. Show me facts.

And where is this 10% performance gap again? At vastly different resolutions, the PS5 is getting 58.65 fps. XSS is getting 58.76 fps. That is a difference of 0.18% in favor of XSS. Not 10%.

And yes, I'm ignoring the performance gap because it is irrelevant. Your facts are simply wrong. You made the incorrect assertion that PS5 performs worse than XSS at the same resolution. They are factually not at the same resolution so it doesn't matter what performance boasts you are trying to claim.

 

[adamsapple]

Where does the VGT video state that XSS is closer to the higher end "almost all the time" and the PS5 "is closer to the lower bounds more"? I don't care about you perceive as "common sense" as I find it very flawed. Show me facts.

They don't, just extrapolating off of the SX info as that game/engine seems to heavily favor the Xbox since VGTech didn't mention what resolution is most common on Series S

DF's video flat out states the Series S commonly runs at 1152p. Higher than 1080p which PS5 often drops to going by almost all the comparisons.

It's pretty easy to determine that there would/could be occasions where the Series S might actually render higher than PS5 as well.

And where is this 10% performance gap again? At vastly different resolutions, the PS5 is getting 58.65 fps. XSS is getting 58.76 fps. That is a difference of 0.18% in favor of XSS. Not 10%.

Same VGTech video. SS has 98~ % consistent frame time counts to 60 FPS and PS5 has 89.5~ %

Frame Time Counts
0ms-16.67ms	288 (1.08%)	0 (0%)	0 (0%)
16.67ms	23790 (89.46%)	26754 (99.17%)	26079 (97.89%)
16.67ms-33.33ms	2501 (9.41%)	0 (0%)	0 (0%)
33.33ms	1 (0%)	223 (0.83%)	562 (2.11%)

And yes, I'm ignoring the performance gap because it is irrelevant. Your facts are simply wrong. You made the incorrect assertion that PS5 performs worse than XSS at the same resolution. They are factually not at the same resolution so it doesn't matter what performance boasts you are trying to claim.

Alright man, you do you.

Performance is irrelevant even if they're both in the same pixel count ball park, a hell of a lot more than PS5 is closer to Series X at least.

 

[JTCx]

XSS is fine, MS will be fine. You don't have to take everything about XSS like it's some sort of a personal attack towards you

To an xbox ambassador, it is personal

Lul

 

[SportsFan581]

Bullshit. They are not close at all.

PS5 Performance mode is between 1920x1080 and 3456x1944.
XSS Performance mode is between 1248x1080 and 2094x1178.

What is "close" is PS5's lower resolution and XSS's higher resolution.

Come on, dude. The "tiny box" gets slaughtered by PS5 even in the PS5's worst case scenario.

Something doesn't seem right with the XSS pixel counts. The game switches between a square and rectangular output in performance mode? That must be jarring.

 

[iHaunter]

Said this shit when it was launching, got temp banned for spreading FUD. The specs were mediocre and could not be sustained. It's the same situation for the Switch, the specs were far too low. But at least the Switch isn't a graphics dependent system, nor is Nintendo a graphics focused company.

 

[DarkMage619]

To an xbox ambassador, it is personal

Lul

Clearly nothing is more personal to a Sony fan than the XSS. Odd but thems the facts.

 

[Topher]

It's pretty easy to determine that there would/could be occasions where the Series S might actually render higher than PS5 as well.

Even if it were proven that PS5 could possibly run at its lowest resolution while the XSS run higher at its highest resolution, in the same scene (incredibly improbable), that is hell of long way from making blatantly false statements that XSS and PS5 run at the same resolution.

Reminder....

PS5 and Series S run the game at same resolutions with Series S having better performance.

Next time just admit you were wrong.

Performance is irrelevant even if they're both in the same pixel count ball park, a hell of a lot more than PS5 is closer to Series X at least.

Performance is never irrelevant. You made factually inaccurate statements as the basis for the performance in regards to resolution. I need no more evidence of that than in the fact that you were pretending that 1080p on PS5 was the equivalent to 1080p on XSS. Absurdly false.

I shouldn't be surprised you were being selective in which row of frame time counts you were basing your 10% performance claim on. All good though. I'll be sure to bookmark this for the future to make sure you are consistent with resolution counts being "in the same ballpark".

Something doesn't seem right with the XSS pixel counts. The game switches between a square and rectangular output in performance mode? That must be jarring.

DRS. It is upscaled in any case.

 

[Hoddi]

Something doesn't seem right with the XSS pixel counts. The game switches between a square and rectangular output in performance mode? That must be jarring.

It's not unusual for games to only scale the horizontal axis. It can be beneficial in certain types of games where you're more likely to notice the loss in vertical resolution. Racing games, for example, because you're always moving forward.

I don't doubt these numbers but people need to keep in mind that these guys are only doing a small handful of snapshots in these pixel counting exercises. If it's only showing a 50% increase in favor of the PS5 then it's simply because the XSS got lucky in those particular shots. There is no 'punching above its weight' because computers just don't work like that.

I still think the S is damn great as a 1080p console but people really need to keep their expectations in check. And if you're happy with it at 4k then all the better.

 

[dcmk7]

Even if it were proven that PS5 could possibly run at its lowest resolution and the XSS, in the same scene, run at its highest resolution (incredibly improbable), that is hell of long way from making blatantly false statements that XSS and PS5 run at the same resolution.

Reminder....



Next time just admit you were wrong.



Performance is never irrelevant. You made factually inaccurate statements as the basis for the performance in regards to resolution. I need no more evidence of that than in the fact that you were pretending that 1080p on PS5 was the equivalent to 1080p on XSS. Absurdly false.

I shouldn't be surprised you were being selective in which row of frame time counts you were basing your 10% performance claim on. All good though. I'll be sure to bookmark this for the future to make sure you are consistent with resolution counts being "in the same ballpark".



DRS. It is upscaled in any case.

 

[JTCx]

Clearly nothing is more personal to a Sony fan than the XSS. Odd but thems the facts.

i dont speak ambassador.

 

[twilo99]

No, they won't and they shouldn't. Regardless of how much of a "pain" XSS is, it is still a successful product.

nah man I was just looking for some reactions... of course they shouldn't, its a great product.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

It’s funny to see 20 pages of people arguing as if any of this is important.

 

[twilo99]

"next gen" Yeah. Good job MS. By not being able to supply enough consoles you've made people settle for an inferior product. Awesome.

Its been said multiple times already, you can not force people to buy any product, especially an "inferior" one...

 

[DarkMage619]

i dont speak ambassador.

You sure about that buddy?

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Its been said multiple times already, you can not force people to buy any product, especially an "inferior" one...

No shit? I never said that. Why are you putting inferior in quotes by the way? It's inferior to an x and a PS5 in every respect.