"MANY developers have been sitting in meetings for the past year desperately trying to get Series S launch requirements dropped"
- Thread starter Tiago Rodrigues
- Start date
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I must have missed it. Doesnt change the fact that devs will never hold back next gen gaming for a handheld. Just like they didnt for the Switch last year which sold 100 million.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I think UE5 itself will be less of an issue as we think. UE 5.1 already added scalable Lumen/Nanite for 60 FPS support for the new consoles.
Unreal Engine 5.1 Offers Scalable Lumen For 60fps On Consoles
Epic Games' roadmap for Unreal Engine 5.1 features a scalable version of Lumen, which will allow supported games to target 60fps.
twistedvoxel.com
Last edited:
New generations are supposed to bring new and better experiences for GAMERS: The ones that fund game developers frappucchinos, fedoras, tatoos and dragon ball Z hairstyles.
How they do it? Not the customer concern.
Look at what WB Montreal did with all that extra power available... a game way worse tecjnically than 7 year old Arkham knight. A game made for 1.6ghz tablet cores, a souped up 7850 and 5400rpm HDD.
Imagine MGS2 being worse than MGS or GTA 3 being worse than GTA 2. That's what they did here. Unprecedented.
Your game can be bad due to story, characters, not being fun to play, whatever. But even bad games were way better technically than the ones from the prior generation. Look at dead rising 3 vs 2. Infamous SS vs 2 and more...
Last edited:
GHG
Gold Member
Yeh? And how's that going so far?
RCU005
Member
This is stupid and lacks common sense. Nothing has been done so far that old gen consoles can't run. Developers want to move on, and Series S specs are an obstacle. Everybody knows it since they announced that thing. Even Microsoft knows it and I wouldn't be surprised if they did it with the whole intention of screwing everyone.
They thought that the price would sell them as hotcakes but it's also not happening and in the process they are blocking the entire industry.
Kinda agree but picking on the word Handheld. Dev don't care about form factor, they care about targetable audience. Excluding Switch still gives you PC, Xbox and PS as an install base.
Think its up to devs/publishers to balance their goals re: game design/grahpics and their commercial requirements.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
That has nothing to do with the fact that they seem to be able to release what many consider to be the most technically impressive games while having to scale down to PS4.
reinking
Gold Member
I'm not taking sides but the PC argument holds no weight. Developers are not required to adhere to a specific specced PC and can release a game well above potato PC specs. They are limited by how much potential market saturation they want to hit vs the features they want to achieve.
Last edited:
Punished Miku
Human Rights Subscription Service
We've seen many games on Switch that look better than Rabbids 2 graphically. The vast majority of Switch games are not Isometric view. They downgraded visually because its easier. And the game still looks fine. Mario Odyssey looks better, has a higher framerate, and is more open. Ubisoft is just not willing to retool their engine that much for a Switch exclusive.
HeisenbergFX4
Member
64gigabyteram
Reverse groomer.
TBH i was gonna agree but like... if MS & AMD are giving out tools meant to optimize the development process (SFS, Directstorage, FSR2) and the developers aren't using them to make Xbox development easier, i don't think they have much of a right to complain about the Series S. No Xbox game as far as i know has actively used these tools so why not use them to make memory management easier? What's the big issue?The Series S is a potato i will agree, but there's ways to extract the most performance from that potato and it seems developers arent using them for whatever reason
This is like getting mad at the Super Nintendo for not being able to run a 3d racing game, but instead of using Mode 7 you just keep getting mad and complain about it to the press
This is like getting mad at the Super Nintendo for not being able to run a 3d racing game, but instead of using Mode 7 you just keep getting mad and complain about it to the press
Last edited:
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
HTK
Banned
Sometimes I really wonder, how can someone sit there for years and develop a dumb ass idea. Some of these games that come out, I wouldn't touch them if devs themselves paid me to play them. I just don't get it.Damn I can see why the Series S is just holding back his visions for these games
Roberts
Member
I think I read somewhere that ID@Xbox helps out indie developers with tech expertise on bringing games to xbox. If developing for XSS is such a nightmare, maybe MS just needs to form a team that helps developers with that.
Edit: I have played I am Fish on XSX. It is not a bad concept and the lighting in the exteriors is above what we usually see in indie games (I think that was handled by people who worked on big games), but 30fps just killed it. It needs precise controls and the sluggish performance just kills any sort of fun you could get out of it.
Edit: I have played I am Fish on XSX. It is not a bad concept and the lighting in the exteriors is above what we usually see in indie games (I think that was handled by people who worked on big games), but 30fps just killed it. It needs precise controls and the sluggish performance just kills any sort of fun you could get out of it.
Last edited:
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
My point is they aren't under any obligation to continue PS4 support down the line.
Series S has to be supported.
Microsoft may have a class action on their hands if they suddenly let studios stop supporting it with some games.
This would be classic bait and switch.
Get you to buy the Series S, so you've invested in the ecosystem with games you already own, and then you're forced to upgrade to Series X at some point to continue playing your library and new games?
Trogdor1123
Member
It's selling pretty well, I don't see them dropping it, especially now
InverseAgonist
Banned
That's clearly untrue.
I'll give you a for-instance. If a developer choses to use Unreal5 fully and target their next generation game with advanced physics and world simulation for 1080p on PS5 and X, how will that scale acceptably? Run it at dynamic 480p from the '90s with ML-based upscaling?! Is that what we've come to?
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Nah, old slow PCs that make up the majority hold development back on PCs.
New consoles actually help push that min spec up.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
It doesn't matter we think unless we are devs making games on these consoles.
What the devs say>>>what you or I think.
CeeJay
Member
You mean the one who worked on Gotham Knights?
https://www.gothamknightsgame.com/en-gb/pc-specs
A game that has minimum PC specs of a GTX 1660 Ti / RX590 and 8GB of RAM for 60FPS @ 1080p?
If Series S was such a problem why will his game work at 60fps on a way less capable PC?
vaibhavpisal
Member
Gotham Knights is 1440p on system if I am correct.
Despite so much crying from one of Dev's.
What they are saying is different from results we are getting.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
SportsFan581
Member
That can be an acceptable option going into next-gen, like FS on the X1. It's not acceptable for XSS buyers for current-gen games though, they bought a local play box.
Obviously cloud can be an option just as it is today. There are games that have RT on cloud but don't in local play on XSS, thus if you don't have a problem with the latency and don't mind the video compression, that can be an option for you.
Last edited:
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Not when games also hit below 1080p and in some cases don't have a 120fps option.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
That Matrix demo runs at 1080/30 on an XSS and it won't be the last UE5 game to do so.
We've got a while before a developer attempts to create something that physically cannot run on that machine to an acceptable level. Right now it's about hamstringing development times rather than completely stopping people from making things. By then, sure, start telling people they XSS is about to become obsolete, but that time is not now.
You have to remember that 1080/30 is now, rightfully, considered budget tier gaming. That isn't a bad thing. But as soon as developers start releasing games that only hit 1080/30 on XSX, it will have already been superseded by a new model.
Last edited:
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
InverseAgonist
Banned
That's not what I stipulated. If you wanted to design a next-generation game that ran using UE5 (nanite and lumen and all that it enables and maybe some advanced physics like we deserve!) on PS5 and X at 1080p -- with or without reconstruction, how would it run acceptably on S?
It's not complicated and it's something that isn't that crazy outside of the mental block that it's basically impossible now that Microsoft has fucked this up and made the generation somewhat weaker because it's fragmented the userbase by selling a ton of S's.
EDIT: Just to clarify further, the Matrix demo is extremely impressive, but was designed and targeted to PS5/X at somewhere between 1440p and 1620p and then reconstructs higher to 4K-ish. You could go beyond that if you target 1080p with/without reconstruction. Developers should be able to have choices.
Last edited:
vaibhavpisal
Member
Which is as expected.
No 120 fps mode is fine as it is not usable for average person at default stick sensitivity. You need to ramp that up to differentiate from 60.
Not many people do that. Only if you are a very good player, in which case get the X.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Of course, UE5 was going to allow 60 fps. My guess is software lumens with some cutbacks to resolution to hit 1080p 60 fps. But whats steam deck going to do for a game targeting 1080p 60 fps on xsx and ps5? it doesnt even have RT acceleration hardware. Its literally using vega cores. Just not going to happen. We've already seen series S dip SIGNIFICANTLY below 533p according to DF in the matrix. And thats a 4 tflops RDNA 2.0 GPU.I think UE5 itself will be less of an issue as we think. UE 5.1 already added scalable Lumen/Nanite for 60 FPS support for the new consoles.
Unreal Engine 5.1 Offers Scalable Lumen For 60fps On Consoles
Epic Games' roadmap for Unreal Engine 5.1 features a scalable version of Lumen, which will allow supported games to target 60fps.
Captain Toad
Banned
Most of us knew this, but it's surprising to hear developers say it publicly.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Performance means frame rate.
Steam Deck is RDNA 2 it does support hardware Ray Tracing, you can't enable it now in Steam OS but that's a software limitation. But you can in Windows.
Last edited:
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Tell that to the casuals who play COD and Fortnite at 120fps.
No 120fps mode when the current gen has it is a sign of weakness is the point but you already know that.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
"Casuals" don't care about 120 FPS.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
oh wow i had no idea they were able to put ray tracing hardware in there. I still dont think 1.6 tflops is enough for RT.
AV
We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Sorry, I forgot to add the bit at the bottom initially. Are you talking about 1080/30 or 1080/60 here? When developers are making games that TARGET 1080 on what are supposed to be top-of-the-range systems then frankly, the hardware isn't up to scratch. There comes a point where we you can't just keep dropping resolution down to keep up with an increase in shit-on-screen. Otherwise, why not target 720p and really push the tech out? Because it would be silly. Nobody's buying a new 1080p TV in 2022, they should expect more.
My point is, by the time we DO get there, we'll be on the Xbox Series Z, which will run those games you're talking about better, and they can write off the Series S. But that time isn't yet. Few more years of slower production pipelines before the "generation" (not a thing any more) really gets going.
CeeJay
Member
The Series S has the same CPU as the Series X so any advanced physics and world simulation should port ok albeit at a lower resolution. Unless you are suggesting that these advanced physics and world simulation are running on the GPU?
a multicultural team of v
Member
Consoles never held back PCs in the past because in the past PCs actually had big budget exclusives so it didn't matter.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
These are not next gen games.
And gow we cannot say yet. Maybe they are developing two completely different branches anyway
InverseAgonist
Banned
I absolutely am! I would love to see some advancement in physics and AI (ML driven physics and fluids/body dynamics simulation is a hot research field, there's crowd dynamics and interactivity, even basic AI routines, etc, etc) that are driven by the GPU. Gameplay needs to evolve!
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Poll