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[Topher]

I believe They overpaid for Zenimax. and none of their games are as big as Halo was when it was with Bungie / or Destiny in terms of profit revenue ( IF I am not mistaken, due to the GaaS )

But Bungie obviously didn't bring the Halo IP with them so that's irrelevant and no, Destiny isn't comparable to Skyrim alone, much less the combination of Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Doom. And you are still light years from a legit comparison to Activision Blizzard.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Dude 70b is a big deal.

To put that money in to prespective, that is half of Sony entire division worth of money, when the deal was announced. Now Sony is worth 10 more billion.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/sony/marketcap/


That is mega money.

I am not arguing with this. As I said I am not favoring one side ( if anything i am more leaning towards the deal not going through Just because I really do not trust MS and their management}

But anyone who is not seeing the CMA with their wording is a bunch of Sony fanboys, then I don't think needing to check his vision is required, because at this point he needs black glasses and a dog.

 

[feynoob]

Yeah I get that removing it from PS would lower COD revenue, I just don't understand why you think removing COD from Playstation would cannibalize other Xbox shooters. If anything it would increase sales.

That would be the case, if the game isnt taking all the spot line.
From playtime, to advertisement, to all the talk being about the game, no chance those games have time breath other than gamepass.

Its why titan fall 2 died.

Now add these big games in 1 platform. COD, Halo, Battlefield, and Overwatch2.
That is insane list of games, which makes it hard for other games to compete.

 

[//DEVIL//]

vvvv

But Bungie obviously didn't bring the Halo IP with them so that's irrelevant and no, Destiny isn't comparable to Skyrim alone, much less the combination of Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Doom. And you are still light years from a legit comparison to Activision Blizzard.

Emmm


Zenimax as a whole, around 500 Million as of 2021 in total revenue

ZeniMax Media Revenue: Annual, Quarterly, and Historic - Zippia

ZeniMax Media's revenue is $510.6 Million - Learn more about ZeniMax Media's revenue by exploring their annual revenue, historical revenue, quarterly revenue, and revenue per employee.

www.zippia.com

Bungie as a whole, around 200 Million as of 2021 in total revenue.

Analyst: Sony vastly overpaid, Bungie makes $200 million revenue

Sony 'vastly overpaid' with $3 billion buyout of Bungie, a developer that may make $200 million in revenues a year, analyst says.

www.tweaktown.com

1 IP from Bungie god knows how many Zenimax.


As far as they Didn't take Halo with them... what does that has anything to do with the fact Bungie IS the Halo maker and the best FPS devs in the world?

 

[feynoob]

I am not arguing with this. As I said I am not favoring one side ( if anything i am more leaning towards the deal not going through Just because I really do not trust MS and their management}

But anyone who is not seeing the CMA with their wording is a bunch of Sony fanboys, then I don't think needing to check his vision is required, because at this point he needs black glasses and a dog.

The CMA argument is valid from their point of view. To us its not, but to them, it IS.

70b can change alot of people's mind. Especially with current economy crysis.

CMA just choose poor arguments. But their complains, I understand it very well, despite arguing against them.

No one wants anyone with that kind of money running around in gaming industry.

 

[yurinka]

25 million players is more than enough alone to make CoD active on pc/Xbox.

Many of these subbers won't be interested on CoD, there are people with very different tastes. Look at the PS userbase: only like around 10% or less of their montly active userbase buy CoD.

Bungie as a whole, around 200 Million as of 2021 in total revenue.

Analyst: Sony vastly overpaid, Bungie makes $200 million revenue

Sony 'vastly overpaid' with $3 billion buyout of Bungie, a developer that may make $200 million in revenues a year, analyst says.

www.tweaktown.com

But Bungie obviously didn't bring the Halo IP with them so that's irrelevant and no, Destiny isn't comparable to Skyrim alone, much less the combination of Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Doom. And you are still light years from a legit comparison to Activision Blizzard.

This $200M is not the Bungie revenue, it's a Michael Patcher estimation. And well, Patched makes several dumb assumptions in that interview and forgets the most important reasons on why Sony bout Bungie and why are valued like that.

And even if the $200M would be true, we should consider it's with a single 5 years old game and that games make most of that money on their first year and that the game made similar amount of money during several years. So we have to consider that this game pretty likely made over a billion dollars and that they are working on multiple games.

Sony didn't buy them for what Bungie made last year. They bought them because the two IPs that Bungie created redefined their genre (FPS) and the console multiplayer, are industry icons and made some billions across all their history, not only in a single year.

They (so now Sony) also owned one of these IPs, Destiny, which broke the record -and I think still has- of the fastest selling new IP in gaming history. Sony will help to expand this IP to movies/tv shows and mobile, and will use their knowledge, info, expertise and tech on MP and GaaS to their other teams. GaaS stuff is specially key because it's what dominates the market and Sony wasn't particularly successful and experienced on it and Bungie are one of the most successful players on the AAA area.

And well, in addition to be working on Destiny Bungie is also working on multiple new IPs, and plan to release "AT LEAST" one by 2025. Meaning that in a few years they may release a couple of new IPs which may have potential to be IPs of the same or even bigger level of Halo or Destiny. For Sony, even if they didn't own Halo, seeing that they created Halo gives confidence on believing on future Bungie new IPs.

It's hard to find another studio in console AAA games being that successful creating new IPs. The two they created are Halo and Destiny, there's no Zenimax or ABK studio with that level of new IP creation.

Destiny made like half a billion at launch, and if it makes like $200M per year during at least 5 years we're talking that a Destiny game make over $1.5B (not counting revenue from movies, merchandising and similar). So with a couple of games of that size Sony would have got the money of the acquisition back in revenue (not in profit, which would be the one counting for a real recoup) so their pricing isn't that crazy.

Specially when compared to the ABK acquisition, because the revenue of a couple CoD games (or any other ABK franchise) don't make $70B. Even if ABK keeps all their games on PS and Nintendo and don't include any on them on GP day one, they'd take way longer to recoup the investment than Sony will with the Bungie one. And we have to consider that many future ABK games will be day one on GP and may potentially go console exclusive, drastically reducing the revenue and profit they currently generate.

So if someone overpaid for an acquisition, it isn't the Bungie one. And well, I think that the $200M/year of one 5 years old game vs $500M/year of all (a gazillion) Zenimax games including new AAA ones is a great comparision to get a bit of context but I think that $500M is also wrong since I'd bet it should be way higher.

 

[feynoob]

duplicate

 

[Three]

vvvv


Emmm


Zenimax as a whole, around 500 Million as of 2021 in total revenue

http://[URL][URL]https://www.zippia.com/zenimax-media-careers-45263/revenue/

[/URL][/URL]


Bungie as a whole, around 200 Million as of 2021 in total revenue.

http://[URL][URL]https://www.tweakt...d-bungie-makes-200-million-revenue/index.html

[/URL][/URL]

1 IP from Bungie god knows how many Zenimax.


As far as they Didn't take Halo with them... what does that has anything to do with the fact Bungie IS the Halo maker and the best FPS devs in the world?

Wierd that you used a site for Zenimax revenue then didn't use the same site for Bungie's value

Bungie's Annual Revenue
$2.7 Million

 

[Topher]

vvvv


Emmm


Zenimax as a whole, around 500 Million as of 2021 in total revenue

ZeniMax Media Revenue: Annual, Quarterly, and Historic - Zippia

ZeniMax Media's revenue is $510.6 Million - Learn more about ZeniMax Media's revenue by exploring their annual revenue, historical revenue, quarterly revenue, and revenue per employee.

www.zippia.com

Bungie as a whole, around 200 Million as of 2021 in total revenue.

Analyst: Sony vastly overpaid, Bungie makes $200 million revenue

Sony 'vastly overpaid' with $3 billion buyout of Bungie, a developer that may make $200 million in revenues a year, analyst says.

www.tweaktown.com

1 IP from Bungie god knows how many Zenimax.


As far as they Didn't take Halo with them... what does that has anything to do with the fact Bungie IS the Halo maker and the best FPS devs in the world?

Emmm

What is your point? Surely you are not comparing the sales of one year against Zenimax franchises that span decades......right?

Again....you are not making any case that Microsoft was treated any differently than Sony with as far as how the Zenimax or Bungie acquisitions were handled. Much less making any of this relevant to Activision Blizzard.

 

[feynoob]

But Bungie obviously didn't bring the Halo IP with them so that's irrelevant and no, Destiny isn't comparable to Skyrim alone, much less the combination of Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Doom. And you are still light years from a legit comparison to Activision Blizzard.

Bungie doesnt have any value aside of their experience in the shooter field. Any of their new project would need to be succesful to reach skyrim level of success.
Sony is more interested in that. Especially with those 10 live service games in the work.

 

[MasterCornholio]

and that is horrible idea, which can negetivelly affect gamepass.

Main appeal of gamepass is the cheap price. You dont want to kick your consumers in the gut, by increasing the price.

Gamepass needs to be around 40m for that to happen. Or else, that would be another uproar, like xbox live gold.

And why would that increase gamepasses price? Microsoft is betting on gamepass being extremely profitable in the long run not in the short run. They already planned on taking some losses in the beginning while they grow their service.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Wierd that you used a site for Zenimax revenue then didn't use the same site for Bungie's value

Bungie's Annual Revenue
$2.7 Million

I honestly just had to google because I didnt know the revenue for each company before I reply to @tohper.

However, 2.7 Million doesn't sound right at all.

Emmm

What is your point? Surely you are not comparing the sales of one year against Zenimax franchises that span decades......right?

Again....you are not making any case that Microsoft was treated any differently than Sony with as far as how the Zenimax or Bungie acquisitions were handled. Much less making any of this relevant to Activision Blizzard.

You are the one who brought Zenimax here lol. Also, Sony was smart when they bought Bungie, smarter than buying Zenimax for 30B or whatever that number was.

 

[Topher]

I honestly just had to google because I didnt know the revenue for each company before I reply to @tohper.

However, 2.7 Million doesn't sound right at all.

It doesn't matter either way because the revenue of any company in a given year is not indicative of its total value.

 

[feynoob]

And why would that increase gamepasses price? Microsoft is betting on gamepass being extremely profitable in the long run not in the short run. They already planned on taking some losses in the beginning while they grow their service.

It was error on my part for reading price instead of subs.

 

[Three]

I honestly just had to google because I didnt know the revenue for each company before I reply to @tohper.

However, 2.7 Million doesn't sound right at all.

It's probably not which makes the Zenimax figure from that site questionable too. I do think the idea that Zenimax was overvalued based on its revenue last year is not looking at the value of the IPs. Especially when there were no notable releases in a given year.

 

[feynoob]

I honestly just had to google because I didnt know the revenue for each company before I reply to @tohper.

However, 2.7 Million doesn't sound right at all.

the number of units sold multiplied by the selling price. Because revenues do not account for costs or expenses, a company's profits, or bottom line, will be lower than its revenue.

Destiny 2 being free is not helping them increase that. Since MS/Sony/Valve are taking 30% from them.

They rely heavily on big content drops.

 

[feynoob]

It's probably not which makes the Zenimax figure from that site questionable too. I do think the idea that Zenimax was overvalued based on its revenue last year is not looking at the value of the IPs. Especially when there were no notable releases in a given year.

Zenimax revenue is why they were on sale. They didnt bring much, considering bethesda is busy with starfield, and other games didnt perform very well on sales.

 

[CatLady]

Not really as the CMA doesn't work for Sony. They are pretty much independent from whatever Sony does. Now if Sony owned the CMA that would be a different story.

In this case Sony isn't buying a huge multiplatforn publisher. When they attempt that I'm sure that the CMA and other similar organizations will be studying it. Just like the Bungie acquisition was looked at by them.

Could have fooled me and most other people.

 

[Three]

Zenimax revenue is why they were on sale. They didnt bring much, considering bethesda is busy with starfield, and other games didnt perform very well on sales.

Wasn't there some news that Bethesda made $1B in 30 days with Skyrim's release? I get that they may only be making $500M a year without releases but surely you can see IPs are worth more than the company's yearly revenue figure for one year.

 

[Pelta88]

I remain truly shocked by the number of Neogaf/Gaming analysts who have no idea about the difference between Revenue and Profit.

 

[Topher]

You are the one who brought Zenimax here lol. Also, Sony was smart when they bought Bungie, smarter than buying Zenimax for 30B or whatever that number was.

Yes, to refute your assertion that "they" let Sony's acquisition of Bungie "slide". Just doesn't make sense to claim Sony is getting a pass with Bungie when the ink on the Zenimax deal hadn't even dried on the paper. That's being absurdly selective in pointing out one acquisition and ignoring another entirely.

And Microsoft bought Zenimax for $7.5 billion. No wonder you thought they paid too much.

 

[feynoob]

Wasn't there some news that Bethesda made $1B in 30 days with Skyrim's release? I get that they may only be making $500M a year without releases but surely you can see IPs are worth more than the company's yearly revenue figure for one year.

It seems they did according to this report.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/8843...1-billion-in-revenue-first-30-days/index.html

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim reportedly made $1 billion in revenues in its first 30 days on the market, according to information connected to a Bethesda marketing manager.
According to info spotted by numbers researcher Timur222 on Twitter, Skyrim could've made $1 billion in revenues in just one month of sales. The data comes by way of a LinkedIn profile for Alex Price, who served as the European brand and marketing manager for Bethesda from 2010 - 2013. Price mentions that Skyrim had "generated $1 billion in the first 30 days," which exceeded Bethesda's internal forecasts by 35%; if accurate, the publisher expected to make $650 million in revenues from Skyrim.
Interesting enough, this is the exact figure that Bethesda reported way back in December 2011. The publisher had announced Skyrim sold 10 million copies in its first month, representing $650 million in retail sales.

The IP usually are worth more alot, depending on how big they are. But running studios, which doesnt bring in enough money is a risky move to support in the longer run. Arcane studios would have been shutdown by that result.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Could have fooled me and most other people.

I know some believe that but it just isn't true. Just console warrior nonsense.

 

[feynoob]

I remain truly shocked by the number of Neogaf/Gaming analysts who have no idea about the difference between Revenue and Profit.

That is what happens, when you skip economics during college.
Even though it was a boring class for me, I am glad I took it. It gives you new prespective on what it takes to make a business.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Yes, to refute your assertion that "they" let Sony's acquisition of Bungie "slide". Just doesn't make sense to claim Sony is getting a pass with Bungie when the ink on the Zenimax deal hadn't even dried on the paper. That's being absurdly selective in pointing out one acquisition and ignoring another entirely.

And Microsoft bought Zenimax for $7.5 billion. No wonder you thought they paid too much.

It was 7.5 billion ? Eh not a bad deal at all then !

Fair enough . I thought it was 30 billion for some reason and that's why CMA was like " ahaha fuck it those guys are retarded for paying so much LoLz" kinda attitude lol

 

[Topher]

That is what happens, when you skip economics during college.
Even though it was a boring class for me, I am glad I took it. It gives you new prespective on what it takes to make a business.

I loved economics in college. Probably the most valuable lesson that everyone should understand from economics is the law of supply and demand.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It was error on my part for reading price instead of subs.

If a price increase does happen it will probably be after Microsoft improves gamepasses library. It would be a lot easier for them to justify if they can release high quality titles consistently on it. Gamers won't be that bad if they do that.

 

[adamsapple]

If a price increase does happen it will probably be after Microsoft improves gamepasses library. It would be a lot easier for them to justify if they can release high quality titles consistently on it. Gamers won't be that bad if they do that.

Remember the backlash when they tried to increase Gold price and they reverted it back within 24 hours. If they announce a GP price increase, the same thing will happen. MS is in the "get as many people on the service" and eat the loss phase for it right now. I don't see them abandoning it any time soon.

 

[Topher]

Remember the backlash when they tried to increase Gold price and they reverted it back within 24 hours. If they announce a GP price increase, the same thing will happen. MS is in the "get as many people on the service" and eat the loss phase for it right now. I don't see them abandoning it any time soon.

I agee, but even if they do increase prices at some point then I'm thinking it will be in the single dollar/pound range, but that will only come once they have their studios pumping out content on a regular basis. They should be able to churn out AAA game every quarter in a year or two with the numbers of studios they have right now.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Remember the backlash when they tried to increase Gold price and they reverted it back within 24 hours. If they announce a GP price increase, the same thing will happen. MS is in the "get as many people on the service" and eat the loss phase for it right now. I don't see them abandoning it any time soon.

Well obviously if you read what I said it would take some time for that to happen. I don't see Microsoft making a massive improvement to gamepass anytime soon. Its going to take them some time to release those titles on that service.

As for the backlash it won't be like the gold price increase if they can justify it. Which they didn't for the gold price hike for example.

 

[adamsapple]

I agee, but even if they do increase prices at some point then I'm thinking it will be in the single dollar/pound range, but that will only come once they have their studios pumping out content on a regular basis. They should be able to churn out AAA game every quarter in a year or two with the numbers of studios they have right now.

Barring unforeseen delays, it looks like 2023 might be the first year they meet the "at least 1 first party game every quarter" plan they laid out before the covid related delays started in earnest.

 

[Topher]

Barring unforeseen delays, it looks like 2023 might be the first year they meet the "at least 1 first party game every quarter" plan they laid out before the covid related delays started in earnest.

I'm keeping my expectations low for 2023. Just give me Starfield.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm keeping my expectations low for 2023. Just give me Starfield.

I'm actually more surprised that a game that looks so far along like Redfall hasn't been given a release window beyond "first half" yet.

 

[phil_t98]

this is just for warzone. The normal game should resemble this data.

you realise that's just poll pin twitter and not the actual numbers. it even shows how many have voted which is a low number

 

[adamsapple]

this is just for warzone. The normal game should resemble this data.

The fact that the mobile % is so low shows that this is not exactly an accurate poll that doesn't reflect the actual numbers at all.

 

[yurinka]

Bungie doesnt have any value aside of their experience in the shooter field. Any of their new project would need to be succesful to reach skyrim level of success.
Sony is more interested in that. Especially with those 10 live service games in the work.

Bungie has a lot of value in many areas:

• Bungie has the Destiny level of success, which is higher than the Skyrim level of success. It's the best new IP launch window sales in gaming history ever level of success
• Bungie generates a good chunk of yearly revenue and profit that now goes to Sony
• The Destiny IP has potential to grow in movies/tv shows and new platforms (like mobile or Switch)
• The two console IPs created by Bungie are industry icons, and have at least two new IPs to be released in a few years, so have potential to be huge hits too
• Bungie redefined FPS genre in consoles, and twice
• Bungie redefined online MP in consoles, and at least twice
• Bungie redefined GaaS in AAA console games
• Bungie is still one of the biggest key players in the world in these areas
• All the related knowledge and expertise, tools and data will be helpful to the other Sony teams who will work on GaaS/online MP, so indirectly with these other teams the Bungie acquisition will generate a lot of extra revenue and profits for Sony

It seems they did according to this report.
https://www.tweaktown.com/news/8843...1-billion-in-revenue-first-30-days/index.html


The IP usually are worth more alot, depending on how big they are. But running studios, which doesnt bring in enough money is a risky move to support in the longer run. Arcane studios would have been shutdown by that result.

Skyrim didn't generate a billion in a month, this is a lie. According to Bethesda they shipped (not sold) 10M copies in the first month. Each games was what, $60? That would be $600M and Bethesda would only get a portion of it because of the taxes, platform holder cuts, retailer cuts, etc.

We also have to remember that it's a 11 years old game, that since then they didn't have any other game of that level of success including the Elder Scrolls game they released after it, and that the next game in the series is still years away from being released.

 

[feynoob]

The fact that the mobile % is so low shows that this is not exactly an accurate poll that doesn't reflect the actual numbers at all.

Mobile was recently, plus main games arent on mobile. Its tiny version of warzone.

 

[phil_t98]

Mobile was recently, plus main games arent on mobile. Its tiny version of warzone.

the fact its a twitter poll is not indicative of the real numbers you were asked for

 

[feynoob]

Bungie has a lot of value in many areas:

• Bungie has the Destiny level of success, which is higher than the Skyrim level of success. It's the best new IP launch window sales in gaming history ever level of success
• Bungie generates a good chunk of yearly revenue and profit that now goes to Sony
• The Destiny IP has potential to grow in movies/tv shows and new platforms (like mobile or Switch)
• The two console IPs created by Bungie are industry icons, and have at least two new IPs to be released in a few years, so have potential to be huge hits too
• Bungie redefined FPS genre in consoles, and twice
• Bungie redefined online MP in consoles, and at least twice
• Bungie redefined GaaS in AAA console games
• Bungie is still one of the biggest key players in the world in these areas

Which all falls in this category

All the related knowledge and expertise, tools and data will be helpful to the other Sony teams who will work on GaaS/online MP

That is the main point of the purchase. Everything else is extra to Sony.

 

[feynoob]

the fact its a twitter poll is not indicative of the real numbers you were asked for

That is what it would look like in the real data.
PS has double of xbox users. While PC is restricted to battle net
While in the UK and USA, xbox/PS would be close to each other, other markets help PS push higher.

 

[Gudji]

I'm keeping my expectations low for 2023. Just give me Starfield.

 

[feynoob]

Just give me Starfield.

That and BOW2. Dont care about anything else. Those 2 are a must for me.

 

[drganon]

I know some believe that but it just isn't true. Just console warrior nonsense.

Regulators looking into a major acquisition, the horror!

 

[Topher]

That and BOW2. Dont care about anything else. Those 2 are a must for me.

BOW2? I'm drawing a blank.

 

[yurinka]

Which all falls in this category

That is the main point of the purchase. Everything else is extra to Sony.

I think the other points listed there are very important. Like their skill creating new IPs specially having a couple coming soon, specially having created Halo and Destiny and holding the record of best new IP launch.

Or how important and successful they are with FPS, it's something that Sony needed because it's one of the biggest genres in console and PC and Sony didn't have any top FPS dev or IP, so now will depend less on 3rd party games for this genre.

I think that 5 years from now we'll see this acquisition as we see the Insomniac deal now: a smart acquisition made for a 'cheap' amount of money compared to what they will be generating specially after they will continue growing.

I saw a Bungie conference about how they did optimized Destiny 2 for Stadia to highly improve the input lag and was really impressive. Knowledge like that applied to future Bungie and PS Studios games, Sony's cloud gaming and mixed with upcoming improvements for 5G that Sony has patented has a lot of potential too.

They are really big with Destiny, but I think they have a lot of potential of going way beyond to where they are.

To their current status we should add on top support and knowledge from Sony in many areas from funding to marketing, narrative, visual tech, extra support from Bungie IPs having also movies or tv shows, and adding to their crossplay userbase players from streaming (web browser or PS app, smart tvs and phones, tablets or maybe even portable consoles like Switch or Steam Deck).

We also have to consider that they went an extra mile ahead with online MP and social experience, so in their next games in addition to add what they learnt from others since their last release, which itself will help them improve too, they may add on top their own ideas that may also help them go beyond. "The next big thing" in this context was Destiny and Halo back in the times, and more recently Fornite and GTA Online, having learn from them and adding stuff on top their next games can be "the next big thing".

Same goes with their business model appoach after their first steps in GaaS and F2P. Pretty likely they will iterate on their Destiny 2 approach, learn from the ones who released after them and probably add something else from their own that we don't know right now.

TLDR: There are several reasons of why Bungie is very important and has a lot of value for Sony not only for what they did or have until now, but also for the potential they have to experience a big growth due to many things they'll have aligned in the next few years.

 

[feynoob]

I think the other points listed there are very important. Like their skill creating new IPs specially having a couple coming soon, specially having created Halo and Destiny and holding the record of best new IP launch.

Or how important and successful they are with FPS, it's something that Sony needed because it's one of the biggest genres in console and PC and Sony didn't have any top FPS dev or IP, so now will depend less on 3rd party games for this genre.

I think that 5 years from now we'll see this acquisition as we see the Insomniac deal now: a smart acquisition made for a 'cheap' amount of money compared to what they will be generating specially after they will continue growing.

I saw a Bungie conference about how they did optimized Destiny 2 for Stadia to highly improve the input lag and was really impressive. Knowledge like that applied to future Bungie and PS Studios games, Sony's cloud gaming and mixed with upcoming improvements for 5G that Sony has patented has a lot of potential too.

They are really big with Destiny, but I think they have a lot of potential of going way beyond to where they are.

To their current status we should add on top support and knowledge from Sony in many areas from funding to marketing, narrative, visual tech, extra support from Bungie IPs having also movies or tv shows, and adding to their crossplay userbase players from streaming (web browser or PS app, smart tvs and phones, tablets or maybe even portable consoles like Switch or Steam Deck).

We also have to consider that they went an extra mile ahead with online MP and social experience, so in their next games in addition to add what they learnt from others since their last release, which itself will help them improve too, they may add on top their own ideas that may also help them go beyond. "The next big thing" in this context was Destiny and Halo back in the times, and more recently Fornite and GTA Online, having learn from them and adding stuff on top their next games can be "the next big thing".

Same goes with their business model appoach after their first steps in GaaS and F2P. Pretty likely they will iterate on their Destiny 2 approach, learn from the ones who released after them and probably add something else from their own that we don't know right now.

TLDR: There are many reasons of why Bungie is very important and has a lot of value for Sony not only for what they did until now, but also for the potential they have to experience a big growth due to many things they'll have aligned in the next few years.

What you listed are valid point. But the key point is what matter to Sony, which is their knowledge.

10 live service games are no joke. That is a big risk, considering the amount of live service that fail every year. Having bunge, who has destiny 2, one of the most succesful live service would mitigate those risks.

The rest would come later. But saving those 10 games are a must now for Sony.

 

[feynoob]

BOW2? I'm drawing a blank.

Tears of kingdom, which is sequel to breath of the wild. Should have T before W.

 

[yurinka]

What you listed are valid point. But the key point is what matter to Sony, which is their knowledge.

10 live service games are no joke. That is a big risk, considering the amount of live service that fail every year. Having bunge, who has destiny 2, one of the most succesful live service would mitigate those risks.

The rest would come later. But saving those 10 games are a must now for Sony.

We have to consider that these live service games are not even half of their 1st & 2nd party lineup.

And well, to get extra knowledge, expertise and tools from Bungie is great and has a lot of value and it's great specially for the devs not used to GaaS, so I think it's a clever investment, but in PS Studios they already had a lot of top tier staff very successful in GaaS:

Entire teams that have been very successful in GaaS like Polyphony (GT7), San Diego Studio (MLB), Media Molecule (LBP, Dreams), Deviation (ex-CoD and other top shooters), Firewalk (ex-Bungie and other top shooters), Haven (ex-Ubisoft/Rainbow Six Siege), Lasengle (developed a mobile game that makes a billion per year), Savage Games (have staff from several top mobile studios) etc.

Plus very talented workers experienced in top GaaS that they hired in recent years for other non GaaS Sony studios, like the Rainbow Six Siege director for Guerrilla and plenty of other unknown staff who may be have been important for top GaaS games (people from production, design, server programming, marketing etc).

On top of that, we have to remember that PS/PSN is the top platform for AAA games, including AAA GaaS, and that payments are tracked via them. Meaning that Sony has a ton of data from all these 3rd party games:

• How many units did they sell or dlc sold, which game is more popular or which DLC/IAP/passes are more popular for each game?
• How many active users has each games, which marketing campaigns have been more effective for them to earn or retain users?
• What is average session length, average total of hours played and retention metrics for each game, and with which changes did they improve them?
• What is the average revenue per user and life time value for each game, in which cases and with which changes did they impoved them? How these metrics are distributed inside each game per their retention groups?

So it's a ton of intel that only Sony has and can use on their favor to improve future GaaS games. They may have some fails specially in the first attempts for the studios who are not experienced on GaaS, but I'm really confident that Sony will be super successful with GaaS and will hit the jackpot multiple times.

I'm pretty sure that the next Destiny/Fortnite/GTA Online, the next super hit that will create the next standard for GaaS, will be a Sony published game. They have a shit ton of experienced, successful and talented GaaS folks there working now in GaaS games and sharing stuff between teams and a shit ton of useful data that only them have to analyze and learn from.

 

[Pelta88]

Barring unforeseen delays, it looks like 2023 might be the first year they meet the "at least 1 first party game every quarter" plan they laid out before the covid related delays started in earnest.

Real serious question... Do you actually believe that PR?

Phil Spencer first said that back in 2019 and we're about to hit 2023 that's like 4 years. I don't have that type of faith in any CEO's words in or outside of gaming. But 4 years of zero AAA games I figured you'd know the difference.

I'm just surprised to see it posted like he came out with that nugget of info last month, let alone 4 years ago and still nothing.

 

[adamsapple]

Real serious question... Do you actually believe that PR?

Phil Spencer first said that back in 2019 and we're about to hit 2023 that's like 4 years. I don't have that type of faith in any CEO's words in or outside of gaming. But 4 years of zero AAA games I figured you'd know the difference.

I'm just surprised to see it posted like he came out with that nugget of info last month, let alone 4 years ago and still nothing.

I mean it's not like there was a global pandemic in late 2019 that delayed a bucket load of other games or anything

And just about all the games I'm betting on as their 1-per-quarter games in 2023 are all that were supposed to release in 2022, so I'm not exactly saying anything extra ordinary here.