Swift_Star
Banned
Yes, they did, by the massive sales God of War Ragnarok and Zelda games have, consumers have shown they want great games. Nobody cares about subscription.
Microsoft / Activision Deal Approval Watch |OT| (MS/ABK close)
- Status
akimbo009
Member
You'll pay for everything and own nothing.
And you'll be happy.
Not all of us give a shit about having a dork library in our houses full of worthless plastic disks.
akimbo009
Member
People hate options. They like to be told that the way they buy stuff is how everyone else should buy stuff. It's validating.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I.e. Gatekeeping.
We're done here. We have come full circle. Until the next circular mental gymnastics, folks.
Swift_Star
Banned
NOPE! You either buy hardware in order to buy games or you either subscribe to streaming, essentially letting MS decide what you're gonna play!
feynoob
Banned
Is that something to brag about?You'll pay for everything and own nothing.
And you'll be happy.
akimbo009
Member
I.e. Gatekeeping.
We're done here. We have come full circle. Until the next circular mental gymnastics, folks.
Platform extends beyond hardware. You know that but seem to be in denial. Anything that is vended by Xbox seems to be something you hate.
R3claimer117
Member
There's nothing wrong with that and the FTC has no case their suit is purely political grandstanding if they felt that way they would have outright sued to block the deal. They didn't because they know they have no case. Stalling tactic it is for them. What's wrong with Microsoft having exclusives? Is Sony and Nintendo the only ones allowed to have exclusives? So every developer Microsoft owns should now make games for every platform? I missed when Microsoft was a their party publisher?
feynoob
Banned
We say that every time, but still we come here every time there is a shitshow.I.e. Gatekeeping.
We're done here. We have come full circle. Until the next circular mental gymnastics, folks.
Topher
Identifies as young
Perhaps try to understand the point before accusing of moving goalposts, you think? I didn't say Game Pass wasn't a success at all, now did I? I said consumers haven't shown that subscriptions are we what they want. I don't know how anyone could make such a board statement with the numbers as they are. And yes, Game Pass is absolutely a success. We know that because the service is profitable and is a great value. But if we are going to broaden this net to include all consumers then no, I'm not seeing demand for this in a big way.
feynoob
Banned
The problem with subscription service is that it's early stage right now.
Gamepass and PS+ new Sub like service need time and more platforms.
Compared to their TV/movies subscription model, gaming subs is held down by the limited platforms.
Gamepass is Xbox/PC, while PS+ is PS, ea play only has EA games.
You don't get much popularity with these restrictions.
akimbo009
Member
Sure you are. Starting with 2 billion gamers - which is true if you start adding in mobile, etc. But in the console space, out of around 200M consumers, 30M is over 10% and even bigger percentages within just Xbox hardware.
So yeah it's moving needles and in a handful of years being a growing business of $2B+. Sony clearly gives a shit and cites it in their own court filings.
You've just moved the goalposts to fit your narrative. You like Sony, we get it, and you don't want Gamepass - we get that too. Good news, don't buy it - no one if forcing you cause options do exist.
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
Look at this troll accuser being a troll
GHG
Member
How ironic considering the incessant gamepass marketing that's gone on across this and every other gaming related space on the Internet over the last couple of years.
Topher
Identifies as young
lol....so much bullshit. I never mentioned Sony at all. You keep making up shit I didn't say. If you want to talk about moving goal posts then why don't you start there. In any case, Sony giving a shit doesn't change anything I've said. And Phil Spencer himself has said multiple times Microsoft is targeting those 2 billion gamers. So if you have a problem with that metric then take it up with him.
And for the record, I have had plenty of good things to say about Game Pass which I've had for over a year now. I'm on these forums talking about the GP games I'm playing on my XSX regularly as well as promoting MS Rewards every chance I get. I suggest you stop being such a console warrior for just a little while and stop getting triggered over every little thing.
akimbo009
Member
All's fair in love and war (and this thread) apparently
Your conclusion is the problem. There is demand for it and saying there isn't due to your chosen denominator is the problem - especially since you're including the 2B number which is has flaws (Phil's argument also has flaws). It's a huge leap to take that broader number and say "there is no desire for subscription services". That's patently not true.
Swift_Star
Banned
There isn't. The subscriptions have reached a plateau.
feynoob
Banned
bentanchorbolt
Banned
There is a difference between hitting a plateau and not meeting your own internal projections.
akimbo009
Member
Which is why they are expanding it to additional devices since the console space isn't large enough overall (which is just Xbox right now) like Samsung..
Samsung Expands Game Streaming to Millions More Devices with over 2500 Games, Holiday Bundles, Backwards Compatibility and 4K
Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd. announced exciting new ways for players to experience game streaming with the addition of new gaming partners, new gaming bundle offers, the introduction of game streaming to select Samsung TV models and 4K, further delivering on its promise of bringing the future...
news.samsung.com
Your argument is attempting to validate your own beliefs by not recognizing thriving and growing business.
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feynoob
Banned
A service which has PC version has a large audience and won't hit it's ceiling soon.
Swift_Star
Banned
Sure, keep telling yourself that.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I'll put money it doesn't stop growing.
It will be on dedicated hardware and move more and more into streaming tech etc and it will get much bigger.
Let's see who is wrong in ten years or so. : D
Microsoft’s Call of Duty Offer to Sony to Include Subscription
In a bid to win regulatory approval for its $69 billion purchase of Activision Blizzard Inc., Microsoft Corp. has offered rival Sony Group Corp. the right to sell Activision blockbuster Call of Duty as part of its gaming subscription service.
Anyone with access? It sounds like the 10 year deal includes/included ps plus.
Also weirdly back to a 3 month high.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
Microsoft isn't contradicting anything the EU is saying. The EU in its own decision is perfectly in line with what Microsoft is saying, and is citing as a reference in footnotes the Form CO Microsoft submitted to the EC notifying them of its purchase. In that same Form CO, Microsoft's position on future games from Zenimax being on rival consoles is made clear and is wholly separate from its statement as the notifying party that it does not have the incentive to cease or limit making zenimax games available for purchase on rival consoles. What you and others are doing is you're ignoring the "zenimax games available for purchase on rival consoles" part of the sentence, and you're attaching the words "all" and "future zenimax games" in your minds somehow despite no such thing ever being said.
A point, might I add, that the EC agrees with and put out a statement saying as much. How do I know I'm right? The EU says I'm right.
https://gamerant.com/eu-contradicts... ZeniMax,ZeniMax titles from rival consoles."
Translation: 1 -- Microsoft never told us there would be no exclusives. 2 -- Our decision also determined that Microsoft is well within its rights to pursue exclusives with Zenimax games because we determined that it does not present a serious threat to competition.
Taken another way.. How can Microsoft violate something that the EU's decision explicitly gives them permission to do and that they told us about in their Form CO beforehand? Unconditionally means unconditionally. That's what the decision means when they say it wouldn't matter if Microsoft made Zenimax games exclusive to Xbox.
The statement the FTC focused on, and that some people here are focusing on, is about existing games, especially games that are under contractual obligation to release on Playstation and have a period of timed exclusivity on Playstation.If you can buy a Zenimax game on a console not named Xbox today, Microsoft kept its promise. If you can't buy a Zenimax game on a console not named Xbox today, Microsoft lied. If Microsoft removed for purchase Zenimax games that were available to Playstation after completing its purchase of Zenimax, Microsoft lied. It is literally that simple.
At no stage is that sentence making any commitment that any and all future Zenimax games will be available for purchase on rival consoles. They're only saying that, for people who already own rival consoles with zenimax games for purchase, you can keep enjoying and still newly purchase those games. You aren't screwed if you didn't quickly buy Doom Eternal on PS5 before Microsoft's acquisition closed. Why would Microsoft ever want to do that anyway? The game is already complete and released into the wild. Customers have it. Any future sales stand to only put more money in Microsoft's pockets while also serving as a perfect ambassador to help advertise future games in that franchise or future Bethesda games that may or may not be exclusive to Xbox. This is why Microsoft has no incentive to cease or limit making zenimax games available for purchase on rival consoles, because they are helping to advertise Game Pass, Xbox and future Bethesda games for them on a competitor's platform.
Starfield and Redfall doesn't represent anything taken away from Playstation gamers. Starfield was never announced for Playstation to begin with. Neither was Redfall.
Any intentional refusal to admit what is said on page 24 of the European Commission's actual decision (not a Microsoft publication) on the Microsoft/Zenimax deal pretty much tells me people already understand and concede the point I'm making since they won't even address it.
The EC decision distinguished its view -- as presented by Microsoft -- on Microsoft's incentives to make existing Zenimax games (meaning any Zenimax games at all) continue to be available for purchase on rival consoles (which they continue to be to this day) and its incentives to make a decision on shipping future games on rival consoles on a case by case basis. Do people seriously think that if Microsoft were lying about what they said to the EU here, the EU wouldn't punish their asses over in the EU, and it wouldn't further hurt Microsoft with the CMA??? Come on now. Microsoft can't publicly lie about this in a fashion that will not screw them with the European Commission. So they must be telling the truth. They told this to the EC January 29th, 2021.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
One of their favorite PR guys,
NickFire
Member
The concept of "any current year COD" being offered from MS and to Sony, and specifically for Sony to include it in PS+ for 10 years, sounds like stuff that someone wants warriors to believe for public pressure reasons only. It just does not sound plausible at all to me.[/URL]
Anyone with access? It sounds like the 10 year deal includes/included ps plus.
Also weirdly back to a 3 month high.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Spoken like Sony in 2021.
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feynoob
Banned
Consoles=/=PC.
For Consoles, it depends on how much they sell and conversion rate.
For PC there is no limit there, until it hits it's ceiling.
MS can increase gamepass numbers from PC users.
Topher
Identifies as young
Except that isn't my conclusion. Not once did I say "there is no desire for subscription services". Clearly there is as 30 million subscribers is not nothing. But if we are going to talk about consumers in a broad sense then that number has to get a lot larger.
The entire market will continue to grow. Phil Spencer says he doesn't expect Game Pass to exceed the 15% of game content revenue that it is getting right now. Don't know what to tell you guys when Phil Spencer keeps saying you are wrong.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
It's true. I knew days ago.
It won't match the offering to game pass, but it's an olive branch where microsoft doesn't have an issue with it, plus it makes them some money. No day one releases, however. Those will only be on Game Pass. Microsoft, after all, has Bethesda games on PS Plus currently.
It doesn't matter if Sony accepts or not, it's the fact that the offer is out there. Just in case for the people who think Sony is who approves the deal.
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akimbo009
Member
Except that isn't my conclusion. Not once did I say "there is no desire for subscription services". Clearly there is as 30 million subscribers is not nothing. But if we are going to talk about consumers in a broad sense then that number has to get a lot larger.
The entire market will continue to grow. Phil Spencer says he doesn't expect Game Pass to exceed the 15% of game content revenue that it is getting right now. Don't know what to tell you guys when Phil Spencer keeps saying you are wrong.
That doesn't mean that there isn't an appetite for subscription services - as in - if sony launched a proper version it would like meet or exceed 15% or whatever that will be - and grow the market accordingly.
bentanchorbolt
Banned
I love this thread. Each day it's a new argument but also each day it's an argument from 50 pages ago.
feynoob
Banned
The part where you are wrong is current numbers gamepass numbers generates 15%.
Higher numbers would generate more revenue for Xbox. If 25m is enough for 15%, imagine what 50m can do.
jhjfss
Member
Microsoft offers Sony rights to sell Call of Duty on PlayStation Plus: report (MSFT)
Microsoft (MSFT) has offered Sony (SONY) the rights to sell Activision Blizzard's popular Call of Duty video game on its PlayStation Plus streaming service in an effort to ...
seekingalpha.com
Microsoft (NASDAQ:MSFT) has offered Sony (NYSE:SONY) the rights to sell Activision Blizzard's popular Call of Duty video game on its PlayStation Plus streaming service in an effort to get its $69B deal approved, Bloomberg reported.
Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft's (MSFT) offer to have Sony (SONY) sell Call of Duty on its streaming service was part of its previous 10-year offer to sell the game on Sony (SONY) PlayStation console. Sony has not yet accepted the deal.
Sony's (SONY) PlayStation Plus streaming service is similar to Microsoft's (MSFT) Xbox Game Pass, but cloud gaming is still nascent, as most games are played either via physical disc or downloaded individually.
Sony (SONY) has repeatedly said it opposes the merger for a number of reasons, including that it would give Xbox an advantage in console sales, as well as Microsoft's (MSFT) Xbox Game Pass streaming service.
Last week, the Federal Trade Commission filed a lawsuit to block Microsoft's (MSFT) $69B offer to buy Activision (NASDAQ:ATVI), saying that it "would enable Microsoft to suppress competitors to its Xbox gaming consoles and its rapidly growing subscription content and cloud-gaming business."
Activision Blizzard (ATVI) CEO Bobby Kotick recently said that the FTC lawsuit did not discourage him, writing in a letter to employees that he wanted "to reinforce my confidence that this deal will close."
None of Sony (SONY), Microsoft (MSFT) or Activision (ATVI) immediately responded to a request for comment from Seeking Alpha.
Earlier this month, Microsoft (MSFT) said it had reached a deal with Nintendo (OTCPK:NTDOY) that would bring Call of Duty to Nintendo's gaming platforms for 10 years if the merger is approved.
Last week, several analysts debated whether the Microsoft (MSFT) deal for Activision (ATVI) would go through in light of the FTC's lawsuit, with analysts casting a wide range of opinions on the matter.
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xHunter
Member
Should just make CoD F2P on all platforms. Surely they would make up the lost amount of sales due to new users joining and buying a few skins.Microsoft’s Call of Duty Offer to Sony to Include Subscription
In a bid to win regulatory approval for its $69 billion purchase of Activision Blizzard Inc., Microsoft Corp. has offered rival Sony Group Corp. the right to sell Activision blockbuster Call of Duty as part of its gaming subscription service.news.bloomberglaw.com
Anyone with access? It sounds like the 10 year deal includes/included ps plus.
Also weirdly back to a 3 month high.
Basically and why I am trying unsuccessfully to stay largely out of it.
Re the ElI5, its just a dumb joke about Dishonoured 2 (a Bethesda game) on a subscription service of sorts.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I'm just sharing what Phil said himself.
You are talking my language... with a paid dlc that's a short campaign
GHG
Member
Going round in circles at this point, will be that way until significant new news breaks. But we are now at a stage where if there is notable new news it will be significant enough to warrant a new thread (like the FTC one).
This would be ideal for me since I don't give a shit about the MP side and haven't done for well over a decade but I do enjoy the odd COD single player campaign here and there.
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
I have no idea what you are talking about. Name a gaming platform that allows you to play games without buying their hardware outside of Xbox. You can buy games on PC as well hardly MS telling you where to play. Streaming isn't available outside of Game pass at all so I still have no idea what you are talking about.
feynoob
Banned
And I am clarifying to you.
It states clearly on the Twitter that it's gamepass console.
Gamepass pc has growth potential.
Topher
Identifies as young
Nope. I'm just reading the words exactly as they said in their entirety. Seems pretty simple to understand and if you got to write a book to make it say what you want it to say then that's a problem.
Sure, but that doesn't make me wrong. The number of subscribers very well may increase but so will the number of gamers overall. Saying "consumers want subscriptions" isn't made true by these numbers.
GHG
Member
Nvidia do this via GeForce Now and no surprise, Microsoft refuse to play nice with them and allow owners of the games they publish to access them via that service.
So they are effectively telling you where to play, even in instances where you own games from them. It has to be in their ecosystem, on their terms or not at all.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Except that isn't my conclusion. Not once did I say "there is no desire for subscription services". Clearly there is as 30 million subscribers is not nothing. But if we are going to talk about consumers in a broad sense then that number has to get a lot larger.
The entire market will continue to grow. Phil Spencer says he doesn't expect Game Pass to exceed the 15% of game content revenue that it is getting right now. Don't know what to tell you guys when Phil Spencer keeps saying you are wrong.
Do people keep going to the movies, do they still buy films, digitally or whatever?
Yes they do, then people also want to stream and have subscription services. There will always be many ways to consume video games and subscription services will become and are a very important piece of that pie.
NickFire
Member
Someone needs to get ahold of that offer and narrow down some details. As in, would this be current year COD's launching on PS+ or the prior year COD's? The former would be a phenomenal topic to digest and discuss. The latter would be another red herring like the concepts of current year COD on Switch, or worse of all current year COD via streaming.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
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