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[adamsapple]

Sony's been helping out the "gamers lawsuit" behind the scenes, to no ones real surprise.

 

[clarky]

It would ruin COD and Xbox in the process.
Exclusive of COD is huge gambler that would tank the franchise.

It's like erasing 20% of destiny users.

Yup. I cant think of any gaas type games that are on only one platform(PC excluded). Making COD or say a hypothetical D3 exclusive would severely kneecap said franchise.

Honestly i really believe we are edging towards a single platform future where everything is available on where ever you choose to play, and im all for that.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

so, sony is supporting the "gamers lawsuit"?
Yikes.

i mean...i can think of some kind of "end game" that sony has in mind...but this is... almost feels personal-emotional (not thinking in the bussines side of things)

Now. listing to the most recent Disney Shareholder call....i can totally see people in these people in positions of power (CEOs, Shareholders) being.....how can you say it; ruthless, insufferable dicks.

now i wonder how accurate is the show Succession.

 

[PaintTinJr]

If you can find a case of the CMA referring themselves to the CMA to vet their decision, it would be good to see.


The process has to balance both the regulators and companies needs (you may disagree with the balance), but that's why there is time limits written in law. If the CMA wants to argue to the CAT that MS hadn't provided the data in time then they may have a case but we are really speculating at that point. However they can't go beyond the law.

I couldn't find that, but the reversal happens in one of the cases in this link.

The link establishes just where the "balance" in the UK exists for things under CMA/CAT purview, and it is interesting that on appeal - if the CMA block - point 1 is already a no-go for Microsoft as the FTC have already stated they are blocking the merger for being illegal. It is also interesting that the costs would almost certainly all fall to Microsoft even if they successfully overturned a CMA decision.

Here's an interesting quote from the article with reh repeated CAT catchphrase: the 'CMA has a "wide margin of appreciation"'

"The CAT rejected all four grounds on essentially the same basis: it restated that the CMA has a "wide margin of appreciation" in deciding the extent to which it is necessary to carry out investigations to discharge its statutory duties and maintained that the CAT should intervene only if no reasonable public authority could have arrived at the same conclusion on the basis of the available evidence."


https://www.clearyantitrustwatch.co...threshold-for-review-of-cma-merger-decisions/

 

[reksveks]

I couldn't find that, but the reversal happens in one of the cases in this link.

The link establishes just where the "balance" in the UK exists for things under CMA/CAT purview, and it is interesting that on appeal - if the CMA block - point 1 is already a no-go for Microsoft as the FTC have already stated they are blocking the merger for being illegal. It is also interesting that the costs would almost certainly all fall to Microsoft even if they successfully overturned a CMA decision.

Here's an interesting quote from the article with reh repeated CAT catchphrase: the 'CMA has a "wide margin of appreciation"'

"The CAT rejected all four grounds on essentially the same basis: it restated that the CMA has a "wide margin of appreciation" in deciding the extent to which it is necessary to carry out investigations to discharge its statutory duties and maintained that the CAT should intervene only if no reasonable public authority could have arrived at the same conclusion on the basis of the available evidence."


https://www.clearyantitrustwatch.co...threshold-for-review-of-cma-merger-decisions/

There is a big difference between the CMA referring themselves to the CAT and MS appealing the prohibited deal. There has been a number of the later but I can't find the former yet.

I think the costs would be annoying of MS but annoying relatively to the deal failing, not really.

 

[PaintTinJr]

There is a big difference between the CMA referring themselves to the CAT and MS appealing the prohibited deal. There has been a number of the later but I can't find the former yet.

I think the costs would be annoying of MS but annoying relatively to the deal failing, not really.

Given the case where the merging parties went to the CAT for an extension for unreasonable timelines from the CMA wanting their responses, and despite the CAT agreeing the date was too short, they still referred it back to the CMA to decide the new timeline, I think it is pretty clear the CMA wouldn't have am issue setting any new timeline, if they needed it, and that as I previously suggested, the CMA are just doing their job, and any process issues arising from Microsoft and ATVI's decision to merge is theirs and theirs alone. So the needs of the many - being the UK population/regulator/government/courts - versus the needs of the few - Microsoft and ATVI - in this merger is definitely balanced towards the many IMHO - after reading that article.

 

[Darsxx82]

Sony's been helping out the "gamers lawsuit" behind the scenes, to no ones real surprise.

It is true, it is no longer a surprise to anyone... but that does not mean that this action does not become the new lowest low for Sony in its desperation to block the MS-ABK agreement.

 

[GHG]

Sony's been helping out the "gamers lawsuit" behind the scenes, to no ones real surprise.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

It would ruin COD and Xbox in the process.
Exclusive of COD is huge gambler that would tank the franchise.

It's like erasing 20% of destiny users.

How would it ruin Call of Duty? Millions of gamers on PC and Xbox Consoles will be playing Cod and all their previous series on Xbox Game Pass. That's not including Steam and Xbox/Windows sales. It'll be increasing the userbase by over 100%.

 

[BeardGawd]

Sony's been helping out the "gamers lawsuit" behind the scenes, to no ones real surprise.

Jesus talk about desperation.

I wouldnt be surprised if Jim is being offered a Bonus of some kind to get the deal blocked. Remember MS wanting to see Performance reviews for the higher ups?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Sony's been helping out the "gamers lawsuit" behind the scenes, to no ones real surprise.

Sony to literally anyone at this point

 

[sainraja]

It is true, it is no longer a surprise to anyone... but that does not mean that this action does not become the new lowest low for Sony in its desperation to block the MS-ABK agreement.

Well, dude, Sony is not going to want the deal to go through (at this point, it is clear that they don't), so of course they are fighting it. Why is that a surprising discovery for you? Microsoft would do the same if the situation were reversed. This does impact Sony as a business, and they are doing what they can to reduce that.

Sony didn't fight the Zenimax/Bethesda acquisition. Ya'll conveniently forget that.

 

[DarkMage619]

Well, dude, Sony is not going to want the deal to go through, so of course they are fighting it. Why is that a surprising discovery for you? Microsoft would do the same if the situation were reversed.
Sony didn't fight the Bethesda acquisition. Ya'll conveniently forget that.

Sony had previously made a statement saying that MS was not serious in wanting a deal. Implying MS was against getting a deal. It was later uncovered that Sony was only interested in a total block and not a deal at all. Big difference between a party like Nvidia and Sony when it came to wanting an actual deal.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Sony's been helping out the "gamers lawsuit" behind the scenes, to no ones real surprise.

Jim's always got my back

 

[mansoor1980]

jimbo in a nutshell

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It is all moot anyway because there is no historical evidence of MS degrading software on other platforms to harm those platforms or increase sales of their platforms. It's just more flinging of accusations to see it any of the regulators bite. Hopefully those regulators continue to take comments from the market leader with a grain of salt.

1. The Netscape Web browser
   69. Netscape Navigator possesses three key middleware attributes that endow it with the potential to diminish the applications barrier to entry. First, in contrast to non-Microsoft, Intel-compatible PC operating systems, which few users would want to use on the same PC systems that carry their copies of Windows, a browser can gain widespread use based on its value as a complement to Windows. Second, because Navigator exposes a set (albeit a limited one) of APIs, it can serve as a platform for other software used by consumers. A browser product is particularly well positioned to serve as a platform for network-centric applications that run in association with Web pages. Finally, Navigator has been ported to more than fifteen different operating systems. Thus, if a developer writes an application that relies solely on the APIs exposed by Navigator, that application will, without any porting, run on many different operating systems.
   70. Adding to Navigator's potential to weaken the applications barrier to entry is the fact that the Internet has become both a major inducement for consumers to buy PCs for the first time and a major occupier of the time and attention of current PCs users. For any firm looking to turn its browser product into an applications platform such to rival Windows, the intense consumer interest in all things Internet-related is a great boon.
   71. Microsoft knew in the fall of 1994 that Netscape was developing versions of a Web browser to run on different operating systems. It did not yet know, however, that Netscape would employ Navigator to generate revenue directly, much less that the product would evolve in such a way as to threaten Microsoft. In fact, in late December 1994, Netscape's chairman and chief executive officer ("CEO"), Jim Clark, told a Microsoft executive that the focus of Netscape's business would be applications running on servers and that Netscape did not intend to succeed at Microsoft's expense.
   72. As soon as Netscape released Navigator on December 15, 1994, the product began to enjoy dramatic acceptance by the public; shortly after its release, consumers were already using Navigator far more than any other browser product. This alarmed Microsoft, which feared that Navigator's enthusiastic reception could embolden Netscape to develop Navigator into an alternative platform for applications development. In late May 1995, Bill Gates, the chairman and CEO of Microsoft, sent a memorandum entitled "The Internet Tidal Wave" to Microsoft's executives describing Netscape as a "new competitor 'born' on the Internet." He warned his colleagues within Microsoft that Netscape was "pursuing a multi-platform strategy where they move the key API into the client to commoditize the underlying operating system." By the late spring of 1995, the executives responsible for setting Microsoft's corporate strategy were deeply concerned that Netscape was moving its business in a direction that could diminish the applications barrier to entry.

Netscape Navigator was a competitive offering on their own platform (Windows), and Microsoft did in fact do questionably anticompetitive things to degrade Netscape's ability to provide a fully functioning product on their platform (such as withholding Windows API access since Netscape did not enter a partnership with Microsoft for IE).

And yes I am referring to Windows '95 here as a "platform" and the Netscape example is arguably worst because they did things to impede/degrade Netscape's offering on their own "platform" (Windows '95) because Microsoft were trying to give a leg-up for their own competing offering (Internet Explorer).

You lose, try again.

 

[feynoob]

How would it ruin Call of Duty? Millions of gamers on PC and Xbox Consoles will be playing Cod and all their previous series on Xbox Game Pass. That's not including Steam and Xbox/Windows sales. It'll be increasing the userbase by over 100%.

because you are sacrificing existing userbase in hope of new base. That is throwing away a golden egg for a pyramid scheme.

Online MP need huge userbase. You cant drop any platform at all, as they are the lifelong of the game.

 

[BrutalTruth_]

Netscape Navigator was a competitive offering on their own platform (Windows), and Microsoft did in fact do questionably anticompetitive things to degrade Netscape's ability to provide a fully functioning product on their platform (such as withholding Windows API access since Netscape did not enter a partnership with Microsoft for IE).

And yes I am referring to Windows '95 here as a "platform" and the Netscape example is arguably worst because they did things to impede/degrade Netscape's offering on their own "platform" (Windows '95) because Microsoft were trying to give a leg-up for their own competing offering (Internet Explorer).

You lose, try again.

Lmao this is what this thread has come to

 

[feynoob]

Sony to literally anyone at this point

rare photo of jim ryan undercover identity

 

[OmegaSupreme]

So people are thinking Sony purposely let a bad port of the last of us out? That's a thing now? What's the logic there?

 

[feynoob]

p.s. Sony is following the subpoena order. They arent acting on their own.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

Netscape Navigator was a competitive offering on their own platform (Windows), and Microsoft did in fact do questionably anticompetitive things to degrade Netscape's ability to provide a fully functioning product on their platform (such as withholding Windows API access since Netscape did not enter a partnership with Microsoft for IE).

And yes I am referring to Windows '95 here as a "platform" and the Netscape example is arguably worst because they did things to impede/degrade Netscape's offering on their own "platform" (Windows '95) because Microsoft were trying to give a leg-up for their own competing offering (Internet Explorer).

You lose, try again.

Microsoft could easily do that with Linux by blocking access to DirectX API's

Then that would be the end of Gaming on Linux with Proton. R.I.P Linux. I would imagine Microsoft will do this eventually...

 

[ReBurn]

jimbo in a nutshell

unless it's those loonies from the gamer lawsuit, then give them all the documents they need

 

[Topher]

Microsoft could easily do that with OpenGL and Vulkan by blocking access to DirectX API's

Then that would be the end of Gaming on Linux, and with Proton. R.I.P Linux. I would imagine Microsoft will do this eventually...

No, they won't. Microsoft isn't going to risk drawing the ire of antitrust regulators just to stamp out such a small percentage that pose no real threat to their OS market share. Do you really want old evil Microsoft to raise its ugly head again?

 

[adamsapple]

Microsoft could easily do that with Proton by blocking access to DirectX API's

Then that would be the end of Gaming on Linux with Proton. R.I.P Linux. I would imagine Microsoft will do this eventually...

You have a very vivid imagination.

 

[DarkMage619]

Lmao this is what this thread has come to

I was wondering why Netscape Navigator wasn't working on my Xbox! Damn you Phil Spencer!

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Sony's been helping out the "gamers lawsuit" behind the scenes, to no ones real surprise.

#4theGamers

Now. listing to the most recent Disney Shareholder call....i can totally see people in these people in positions of power (CEOs, Shareholders) being.....how can you say it; ruthless, insufferable dicks.

What happened?

Then that would be the end of Gaming on Linux with Proton. R.I.P Linux. I would imagine Microsoft will do this eventually...

Nah. That's the limit and problem for "monopolies" - the moves you can do become limited. MSFT cannot introduce 30% for Windows apps, it could not invest into search properly in the past and so on. Regulators would immediately react with "What's going on?". And that's why it was not that smart for Sony to argue in favour of "high end home console market" .

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I was wondering why Netscape Navigator wasn't working on my Xbox! Damn you Phil Spencer!

It's fair game when you think about you people bringing up Sony buying a small time publisher 25 years ago.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Honestly i really believe we are edging towards a single platform future where everything is available on where ever you choose to play, and im all for that.

Don't worry, that day is coming. After MS buys Nintendo and Sony, the world will finally be united under one glorious platform. Once there is only Xbox, then humanity will be free to play everything wherever they choose to play on the only platform that exists! What a bright future mankind will make for themselves!

 

[Calverz]

Damn! Never thought the gamers lawsuit would block the deal. Well played gamers.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Microsoft could easily do that with Linux by blocking access to DirectX API's

Then that would be the end of Gaming on Linux with Proton. R.I.P Linux. I would imagine Microsoft will do this eventually...

How exactly? The API needs documented for the DirectX programmers to use it on WIndows and Xbox, the underlying hardware capabilities the API maps to, redirects to the GPU microcode AFAIK - which is the to the metal interface provided by the GPU mfr, and is the same microcode mappings that other APIs use for identical functionality via differing abstraction in other APIs like Opengl/Vulkan.

Proton is a successor to WINE, and WINEs acronym is circular: Wine Is Not Emulation (IIRC), It is merely a remapping/redirection layer to the Opengl/vulkan apis to do the same work as the program's calls to the directX api.

Oracle already tried to stop Google's Android and the Open Java community from using Java's API, unsuccessfully, and any restriction by Microsoft on DirectX API would still require them to license use of the restricted publicly visible API on fair terms, so no, that could never happen,

 

[DarkMage619]

It's fair game when you think about you people bringing up Sony buying a small time publisher 25 years ago.

At least Sony's previous publisher purchases are keeping the conext of video games and this discussion. I am pretty sure Phil Spencer and the Xbox brand had nothing to do with Netscape on any level. It's a huge stretch to bring web browsers up. Why not bring up a time when MS degraded a video game on another platform which is what they were being accused of?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

What happened?

some shareholders told Bob Iger directly that the company is supporting groomers, following an angenda that goes against the "family values" and because this agenda disney had two flops at the box office.

call out Disney for bending over China ignoring all the Human Rights violations.

some issue with Florida that i don't understand.

ending with: Bob Iger and the board cannot be trusted.

 

[Three]

Microsoft could easily do that with Linux by blocking access to DirectX API's

Then that would be the end of Gaming on Linux with Proton. R.I.P Linux. I would imagine Microsoft will do this eventually...

You do know that MS already doesn't provide DirectX for Linux? It already blocks access.

Proton is a compatibility layer that is written independently.

You edited your post from this

Microsoft could easily do that with OpenGL and Vulkan by blocking access to DirectX API's

but even the edit to Linux doesn't make sense.

 

[PaintTinJr]

At least Sony's previous publisher purchases are keeping the conext of video games and this discussion. I am pretty sure Phil Spencer and the Xbox brand had nothing to do with Netscape on any level. It's a huge stretch to bring web browsers up. Why not bring up a time when MS degraded a video game on another platform which is what they were being accused of?

Sony could always get John Carmack subpoenaed I guess, given he was gagged from talking about Rage performance on PS3 around launch because of a 360 marketing deal parent Zenimax probably signed.

Prior to launch John had stated that the (Opengl based) Windows version of Rage ran faster on Linux through WINE, than natively on Windows - essentially throwing shade at the Direct HAL degrading Opengl performance in favour of DirectX. And prior to launch he'd said alot about all the impressive optimisation he'd done specifically for the PS3 Cell processor - and it runs amazingly well after the opening demo level - yet no surprise DF gave the face off result based on the demo level and awarded it to the platform with the marketing deal, go figure, eh?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

No, they won't. Microsoft isn't going to risk drawing the ire of antitrust regulators just to stamp out such a small percentage that pose no real threat to their OS market share. Do you really want old evil Microsoft to raise its ugly head again?

You act like the old Microsoft went away. It never did. They just got a cosmetic makeover but the same desires and tendencies exist as they did in the early 1980s and through the '90s. The language and messaging just got friendlier, that's all.

All companies have softened the more cutthroat hardline jabs versus yesteryear, TBF, and they all want the same kind of market dominance they wanted back in the day, too, so that hasn't changed. I'm just surprised people think Microsoft of all companies really "changed" into something completely different from their inception. Like said before those tendencies never went away, it's part of their corporate DNA and part of how they gained so much market power.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

some shareholders told Bob Iger directly that the company is supporting groomers, following an angenda that goes against the "family values" and because this agenda disney had two flops at the box office.

What movies did flop?

call out Disney for bending over China ignoring all the Human Rights violations.

some issue with Florida that i don't understand.

ending with: Bob Iger and the board cannot be trusted.

Interesting.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

What movies did flop?


Interesting.

Strange World, Light Year.

 

[feynoob]

Damn! Never thought the gamers lawsuit would block the deal. Well played gamers.

they dont stand a chance. They are fighting against behemoth.
Plus their lawsuit is late to the party. 16 days left for cma.

 

[DarkMage619]

Sony could always get John Carmack subpoenaed I guess, given he was gagged from talking about Rage performance on PS3 around launch because of a 360 marketing deal parent Zenimax probably signed.

Prior to launch John had stated that the (Opengl based) Windows version of Rage ran faster on Linux through WINE, than natively on Windows - essentially throwing shade at the Direct HAL degrading Opengl performance in favour of DirectX. And prior to launch he'd said alot about all the impressive optimisation he'd done specifically for the PS3 Cell processor - and it runs amazingly well after the opening demo level - yet no surprise DF gave the face off result based on the demo level and awarded it to the platform with the marketing deal, go figure, eh?

Pretty sure if there was actual evidence of MS degrading other platforms games Sony would have presented it a long, long time ago with video highlights. It's OK to simply acknowledge that Sony is making any claim they can get regulators to stop the deal. The claims don't have to plausible or sincere.

 

[sainraja]

Sony had previously made a statement saying that MS was not serious in wanting a deal. Implying MS was against getting a deal. It was later uncovered that Sony was only interested in a total block and not a deal at all. Big difference between a party like Nvidia and Sony when it came to wanting an actual deal.

Making a deal is secondary to their primary goal, which is to try to block the deal.

 

[DarkMage619]

Making a deal is secondary to their primary goal, which is to try to block the deal.

I understand that. They should have just come out and said that from the beginning. No need to try and misdirect and make it appear that is was MS who was unwilling to deal. The one thing you cannot say about MS during this whole ordeal was that they have not been accommodating.

 

[freefornow]

Netscape Navigator was a competitive offering on their own platform (Windows), and Microsoft did in fact do questionably anticompetitive things to degrade Netscape's ability to provide a fully functioning product on their platform (such as withholding Windows API access since Netscape did not enter a partnership with Microsoft for IE).

And yes I am referring to Windows '95 here as a "platform" and the Netscape example is arguably worst because they did things to impede/degrade Netscape's offering on their own "platform" (Windows '95) because Microsoft were trying to give a leg-up for their own competing offering (Internet Explorer).

You lose, try again.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Strange World, Light Year.

I wonder what family values they did not follow, though I haven't seen any of those movies.

Pretty sure if there was actual evidence of MS degrading other platforms games Sony would have presented it a long, long time ago with video highlights.

Exactly. Considering that Sony is inventing arguments they would have shown real proofs 100% if they had them.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I wonder what family values they did not follow, though I haven't seen any of those movies.


Exactly. Considering that Sony is inventing arguments they would have shown real proofs 100% if they had them.

what do you think?

 

[RickMasters]

wait a minute....are people equating CoD to MLB?

They are doing no such thing. You are simply missing the point. But seeing as you are having a hard time following… I'll try to simplify it:

basically people are saying Sony throwing out outlandish statements like they are going to end up with the worse be to job of COD when they themselves put out inferior versions of their own games on other platforms (never mind MLB on Xbox what about their shitty ports of their games to PC?)…. Is pure hypocrosy mixed with conjecture. So no…. nobody is equating COD with MLB….. just Sony accusing MS of using their own tactics even though MS have no history of mishandling Their games on other platforms. Sony does…. And feel that the same will haven't to them with COD….. is that clear now?


All a bit one sided don't you think?…….

 

[RickMasters]

Sony didn't fight the Zenimax/Bethesda acquisition. Ya'll conveniently forget that.

that hasn't stopped people on gaf and even Sony from bringing it up over the last 200 pages though has it?

 

[RickMasters]

Jim's always got my back

Ah that was, Cringe to read.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

They are doing no such thing. You are simply missing the point. But seeing as you are having a hard time following… I'll try to simplify it:

basically people are saying Sony throwing out outlandish statements like they are going to end up with the worse be to job of COD when they themselves put out inferior versions of their own games on other platforms (never mind MLB on Xbox what about their shitty ports of their games to PC?)…. Is pure hypocrosy mixed with conjecture. So no…. nobody is equating COD with MLB….. just Sony accusing MS of using their own tactics even though MS have no history of mishandling Their games on other platforms. Sony does…. And feel that the same will haven't to them with COD….. is that clear now?


All a bit one sided don't you think?…….

that is why I asked. but it seems indeed some people are trying to equate CoD to MLB which doesn't apply for several factors.

But if the argument is about Sony's statements on those legal documents come across as a hypocrite...well of course.

Now, the nuanced an actual mature debate/conversation would be:

not to take anything in those documents at face value or as honest arguments...IS LAWYERING SHIT.

sony is here to be a Pain in the Ass for MS. to make this process and consequences as hard as possible.

there is no way in hell Sony's legal counsel
is like:

"Sure, the chances of you blocking this merger is 100% a guarantee".

i think Sony is like:

"Make this shit a hell on earth for MS".

And that's it. this is in fact, very fascinating and the actual point of analysis.

 

[feynoob]

that is why I asked. but it seems indeed some people are trying to equate CoD to MLB which doesn't apply for several factors.

MS owning COD won't change the fact that the game is shit optimized with buggy release.
The game is already in bad shape.