bitbydeath
Gold Member
*Series S.
[Insider Gaming] PlayStation 5 Pro is “100%” in Development.
//DEVIL//
Member
Ray tracing on consoles needs to die. period.
AMD will do nothing about it. a full ray tracing brings 4090 to 80 fps with DLSS 3 ON and frame generation. like. it's so not worth it.
pretty ? sure call it that ( even though sometimes I like the fake lighting depending on the location ), but not because it's pretty a 400$ console should have it.
use these resources to make the game look better. like, better character models, better animation, better physics, and realistic lighting even if it's fake.
Enough with the stupid push for ray tracing. honestly, sometimes I feel this push simply because devs are becoming retards and do want to switch a ray tracing toggle and that's it. less work for them.
Lagspike_exe
Member
We will see what RDNA4 brings in terms of RTRT.
kyliethicc
Member
Lagspike_exe
Member
Pretty likely. They will first bundle PS5s with games before discounting down the line.
Rayderism
Member
But of course there will be a PS5 Pro, because they KNOW there of those of us who won't be able to stand having the "inferior" version of PS5. I know this, because I'm one of those people.
Gee, let me guess, better RT and better framerates and all that blah-pitouie, but still no physical PS1/2/3 support, because of course not. That would be too generous. Can't have that. No, just another PS4 Pro scenario where, sure, it's better, but not so much better that it's actually worth it, but just better enough to get suckers (like me) to buy it.
And then, MS will release an XBOX (only god knows what they'll call it) to compete. To quote a Stephen King phrase, "Jesus jumped-up Christ in a sidecar." Why can't they just roll with what they have until PS6?
Sigh.....I just want to play fun games, not buy new hardware all the damn time. I could just go back to PC gaming if I wanted to do that. Bastards!
Gee, let me guess, better RT and better framerates and all that blah-pitouie, but still no physical PS1/2/3 support, because of course not. That would be too generous. Can't have that. No, just another PS4 Pro scenario where, sure, it's better, but not so much better that it's actually worth it, but just better enough to get suckers (like me) to buy it.
And then, MS will release an XBOX (only god knows what they'll call it) to compete. To quote a Stephen King phrase, "Jesus jumped-up Christ in a sidecar." Why can't they just roll with what they have until PS6?
Sigh.....I just want to play fun games, not buy new hardware all the damn time. I could just go back to PC gaming if I wanted to do that. Bastards!
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Doctor Hades
Member
Regardless of whether this is true or not, I am in two minds about a Pro version of the PS5.
On the one hand, it's clear that achieving 60 fps with current-gen graphical fidelity requires various compromises, mostly in the form of resolution and the consoles do not have very good image upscaling hardware so are at the mercy of low rendering resolutions and the sub-par (in my opinion) FSR2 upscaling such as the recent Jedi Survivor game. The current consoles also have weak RT hardware which means even more sacrifices if you use that as well. However, RT isn't really at a point yet where it is essential to a game so the bonus is that not using that does free up a big chunk of performance. Jedi Survivor on PS5 really should have had a Performance mode with an RT on/off option in my view as RT isn't very good in that game anyway (it has a very short draw distance for shadows and ambient shading for example).
On the other hand, a PS5 Pro has the potential to offer much better performance and value than a PC which at the moment has been getting way too many terrible "ports" that demand hardware that is far, far in excess of the console equivalent to run and even then is at the mercy of shader compilation stutter in many games, something that does not happen on consoles due to their fixed hardware.
I think the chances of a PS5 Pro are very slim though given that we are only just coming out of the cross-gen phase almost 3 years after launch and the hardware shortages that meant many people were unable to even get hold of a PS5. Releasing a Pro model this year or even next would just confuse the market I feel and mean developers would have to cater for yet another SKU on top of all the others they are having to develop for (and they aren't always doing a great job with those...).
On the one hand, it's clear that achieving 60 fps with current-gen graphical fidelity requires various compromises, mostly in the form of resolution and the consoles do not have very good image upscaling hardware so are at the mercy of low rendering resolutions and the sub-par (in my opinion) FSR2 upscaling such as the recent Jedi Survivor game. The current consoles also have weak RT hardware which means even more sacrifices if you use that as well. However, RT isn't really at a point yet where it is essential to a game so the bonus is that not using that does free up a big chunk of performance. Jedi Survivor on PS5 really should have had a Performance mode with an RT on/off option in my view as RT isn't very good in that game anyway (it has a very short draw distance for shadows and ambient shading for example).
On the other hand, a PS5 Pro has the potential to offer much better performance and value than a PC which at the moment has been getting way too many terrible "ports" that demand hardware that is far, far in excess of the console equivalent to run and even then is at the mercy of shader compilation stutter in many games, something that does not happen on consoles due to their fixed hardware.
I think the chances of a PS5 Pro are very slim though given that we are only just coming out of the cross-gen phase almost 3 years after launch and the hardware shortages that meant many people were unable to even get hold of a PS5. Releasing a Pro model this year or even next would just confuse the market I feel and mean developers would have to cater for yet another SKU on top of all the others they are having to develop for (and they aren't always doing a great job with those...).
Caio
Member
I believe it, and it's a good option for the console gamers who want to play those games running at 30fps on the base model, at 60 fps on the PRO, and higher settings, assuming the PRO Model will have at least 2.5X The Power of the Base Model. This will apply for either Exclusive and multiplatform games, so why not ? If you don't need it, just skip it; but many players would love it, me in the first place
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xrnzaaas
Member
Base PS5 is not going to get discontinued and people would be pissed if they removed the cheaper bluray model to force the all-digital transition. They'll just charge more money for the Pro model for those wanting 'the ultimate PS experience'.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Exactly. Fuck this pro nonsense.
Let devs optimise and don't add more gates and optimisation points.
This negates point for console.
Idiots scream for pro since the day ps5 released because some games run too slow. It's not console fault. Get a pc if you want this rat race of dev laziness.
Besides, ps5 got great specs, good cpu , gpu and io. Only thing they can improve is gpu a tiny bit because money and parts availability is not there.
And how do you barter that? You can't market 4k again
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rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Fucking never. Release slim and leave devs some time to optimise. Devs don't have enough time to release a game on a system because dev time is longer than time between systems. Let alone base too pro.
Let the console gen be and release ps6 in 2028/7 or something. 360 and ps3 has whole trilogies of games on them. Each looking way better. Compare uc1 to uc3 or tlou. That's progress. Now devs barely have time to start dev and release one game before sku change.
Reheating pro only muddies the water for last 2-3 years of console. Many people don't get it, but everyone who gets it get it say one too.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
The only problem with 30fps is devs and you. It's not unplayable aside from few gates with lazy implementation.
Get a pc if you have these demands from 400$ box
fuck_diggity_cunt_ingdon
Banned
Glad I waited on PlayStation this gen, hopefully, in fact more than hoping, I'm begging for them now to just have a better design for the box.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
Keep dreaming. Ps5 will stay at 500 and pro will milk us for 1000$ or something. And yes, it will sell. Just like 2k$ iPhones each year.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
You gotta be special kind of stupid to fall for that. It's not an option like a faster car lol. Base users will be shafted to 1080p30 territory I bet you. No effort whatever
KingHippo1967
Member
Article says that "although the PlayStation 5 Pro could be canceled at any given time, Insider Gaming can report with a 100% degree of certainty that the PlayStation 5 Pro is currently in development".
In other words, they're making an educated guess based on what happened last generation, and if it ends up not happening they'll just claim it was cancelled.
In other words, they're making an educated guess based on what happened last generation, and if it ends up not happening they'll just claim it was cancelled.
Setsuna Mudou
Member
Relax, no it won't be $1000, I wish it would, but it won't. Most likely just a new apu with improved gpu capabilities. No change to cpu and IO, so there is nothing complex to optimize for. This was Cerny's approach last time around and afaik he's still the lead architect.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
I will buy it don't get me wrong.
I just dont want smartphonization of console market.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
I'm not ready for the Pro yet! 
Setsuna Mudou
Member
It's not possible in the gaming sector for consoles. I think this 4 year tick-tock cycle (x1, x1 pro, x2, x2 pro, etc) is quite reasonable as normally you get 2 generations if gpu improvements between releases and full 4 gens between major console cycles.
Sony seems smart enough not to burden their dev cycles with their approach, Cerny's focus on the ps5 presentation is a clear indication of it, prioritizing a similar architecture that allows good scaling.
I would argue that in cell phones we pretty much plateaued to the point you're getting the same experience in a $2k phone and a $500 one. The gains are so marginal and many tines come in areas of no interest to some (like cameras to me...).
Will be fine
TrebleShot
Member
I speak for everyone on this forum and within the PS/PC gaming community when I say we ALL want this and NEED it.
Just imagine native 4k60 games running with ultra settings.
Modern OLED displays have meant that the speed in which tech evolves is much more important now, 30 was fine in LCD but disgusting on OLED now we need hardware to catch up to modern display standards.
Sorry nerds it's true.
I think I want it and I deserve it.
Just imagine native 4k60 games running with ultra settings.
Modern OLED displays have meant that the speed in which tech evolves is much more important now, 30 was fine in LCD but disgusting on OLED now we need hardware to catch up to modern display standards.
Sorry nerds it's true.
I think I want it and I deserve it.
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I don't think it matters. Games will probably have performance modes anyway, bit even those that don't can rely on some combination of better CPU, existing CPU headroom, and VRR. That's likely to get close to 60 anyway.
winjer
Member
We are 3 years in this generation. No price drops, quite the opposite a price increase for the PS5.
No PS5 Slim, because the cost of newer process nodes offsets the savings in area cost and power usage.
If there is to be a PS5 Pro, it will have to use a newer process node, like N5 or N3. And these are significantly more expensive than the N7 used in the PS5.
This is the price for TSMC wafers, as late 2022.
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Lol sure. Why do some people cling so desperately to this theory? Do they think it makes them look clever or something?
mrmustard
Banned
Sounds better but i think Sony wants more than 100 bucks for the Disc Drive.
Definitely alot closer to this then the other price. I don't see Sony taking that hit in margin especially whilst they don't need to. I would maybe bump the pro up by 50 usd.
Yeah exactly. I don't see the issue. It offers better performance and better graphics. That's perfectly understandable for what will be relatively sophisticated buyers anyway.
That's all the Pro offered anyway. The 4k was a myth - it never got close. In effect it just offered better graphics.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Haha no real next gen games...let's get the Pro out...
We got SWINDLED!
..I'm there day one.
We got SWINDLED!
..I'm there day one.
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Setsuna Mudou
Member
I think you're forgetting that you can squeeze more transistors per each wafer with the lower process nodes. That offsets the higher costs of the new nodes.We are 3 years in this generation. No price drops, quite the opposite a price increase for the PS5.
No PS5 Slim, because the cost of newer process nodes offsets the savings in area cost and power usage.
If there is to be a PS5 Pro, it will have to use a newer process node, like N5 or N3. And these are significantly more expensive than the N7 used in the PS5.
This is the price for TSMC wafers, as late 2022.
Also with smaller nodes you have smaller sizes, require less power and are easier to cool. That reduces the BoM for the overall system as you need a much cheaper cooling solution to contain the temps.
On top of it you also have more efficiency gains and the tools (drivers) get more mature over time. We're also in a period of economic downturn with massive inflation globally, so it's understood why the prices wouldn't necessarily go down like they did in earlier gens.
Btw, the cool thing is no one has to upgrade if they don't want to. Your current console will work just as well for probably 4 more years until a PS6 comes around
Maddux4164
Banned
Wow. So you're saying PS5 digital is axed
Also the PS5 and PS5 Pro is the same exact price only the pro doesn't have a disc drive (not much of a pro)
That's marketing failure 101. Confusing sku's
$500 gets me a ps5. One is a pro. One isn't. One has a disc drive (NON pro) and one doesn't.
Stupid. Stupid.
You'll 100% be wrong and that's a fact
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winjer
Member
I think you're forgetting that you can squeeze more transistors per each wafer with the lower process nodes. That offsets the higher costs of the new nodes.
Also with smaller nodes you have smaller sizes, require less power and are easier to cool. That reduces the BoM for the overall system as you need a much cheaper cooling solution to contain the temps.
On top of it you also have more efficiency gains and the tools (drivers) get more mature over time. We're also in a period of economic downturn with massive inflation globally, so it's understood why the prices wouldn't necessarily go down like they did in earlier gens.
Btw, the cool thing is no one has to upgrade if they don't want to. Your current console will work just as well for probably 4 more years until a PS6 comes around
That is usually true. But the economics have changed.
We already had 2 new process nodes. And still no PS5 Slim, because the economics no longer scale.
FunkMiller
Banned
Yeah... because the Ps5 has so many games on it that push the hardware.
I'll buy a Pro when there are actually games that require it to play. How long do you think that's realistically going to take?
I'll buy a Pro when there are actually games that require it to play. How long do you think that's realistically going to take?
Maddux4164
Banned
People FINANCE those iPhones. That argument is stupid.
95% of humans walk into that cell phone store. Walk out. Added $30 to their bill with 0% interest rate on that phone.
People don't (at mass anyhow) finance video game consoles.
PeteBull
Member
Gonna love ps5pr0, more power, by then we will have even more quality exclusives, whats not to like, ofc i somehow managed to not buy base ps5 but only coz i was sure even back at ps5 launch we gonna get ps5pr0/however midgen upgrade gonna be named, simply coz sony wouldnt allow it to stay with only 10,2tf machine till end of current console gen- so maybe 2028 maybe even 2030.
PeteBull
Member
I guarantee u any hc playstation gamer gonna buy ps5pr0 at launch, by end of 2024 or latest 2025(so ps5pr0 launch date) we gonna have so many games looking good but running in crazy low resolutions, they chose playstation for a reason, and its not to go back to switch-like resolutions =P
It will be either fork up another 600(maybe 800$ at those nasty inflation rates
) or enjoy ur ps5 pleb version with pixels of the size of fists,
It will be either fork up another 600(maybe 800$ at those nasty inflation rates
) or enjoy ur ps5 pleb version with pixels of the size of fists,
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AncientOrigin
Member
Why is that a problem everyone how they like if you are happy with the base PS5 good for you.If someone else has the money and wants the best version of games what's the problem?
Kokoloko85
Member
Day 1.
Which means Xbox must have a pro/elite version for Series X.
I hope MS doesnt do a Series S successor too. Just make a pro version for Series X and drop Series S
Which means Xbox must have a pro/elite version for Series X.
I hope MS doesnt do a Series S successor too. Just make a pro version for Series X and drop Series S
Setsuna Mudou
Member
You already have a new node inside the newer PS5s. My day 1 PS5 is on a 1nm higher node than the current ones on the market, and with that they managed to save some costs on the cooling solution. I would argue that had that shrink not happened, the current console price probably would be even higher. You also have the other side of the market playing a part (limited supply with crazy high demand), so no real incentive to drop prices.
All in all it just means the market is ready to absorb current prices, no need for a "slim" version just yet (although I would argue the new version with optional bluray drive to be launched later this year would count as a slim).
Once demand drops at the current price, you'll see some drops. That will feel especially good knowing how many scalpers will be losing money on inventory
